OT: Jury Duty! Help!

[HarryBosch]

publicdefender, I like your strategy on picking jurors. Kind of a contrarian approach. Interesting that you plant a thought in their heads without even having to say it out loud – probably works better that way.

WRT presumed innocence – yes, my immediate thought on hearing that someone has been accused of a crime is that they probably did it.

My secondary thoughts are that I don’t think the prosecutor’s office would bring forth a charge unless they believe they can win the case. And, I imply that I think that the veteran attorneys – or maybe it’s just the high profile attorneys – care more about winning than actually proving or disproving guilt.

[zzz]

I don’t know how this applies to different courts, but I do know I was advised to do the following here in San Diegoand I was excused. I believe I was called for a federal court here in SD versus city. However, this did not work in past places I have lived.

If your income is derived from your ability to work – IE: sales, consulting, project based, you can indicate that your income is negatively affected if you are unable to work.

I don’t recall whether I asked for an exemption, but I know for certain that I did not ask for a postponement. I think I had to include the contact person and number at my work for the court to verify.

If you are for instance a consultant and make 100K a year, but have a $3k mortgage payment, plus another $2k in car payment and monthly household expenses, I would say its a financial hardship because you can’t pay your bills. Should you just stop making your mortgage payment because you couldn’t bill your client for 2 weeks out of the month because of jury duty?

[zzz]

I don’t know how this applies to different courts, but I do know I was advised to do the following here in San Diegoand I was excused. I believe I was called for a federal court here in SD versus city. However, this did not work in past places I have lived.

If your income is derived from your ability to work – IE: sales, consulting, project based, you can indicate that your income is negatively affected if you are unable to work.

I don’t recall whether I asked for an exemption, but I know for certain that I did not ask for a postponement. I think I had to include the contact person and number at my work for the court to verify.

If you are for instance a consultant and make 100K a year, but have a $3k mortgage payment, plus another $2k in car payment and monthly household expenses, I would say its a financial hardship because you can’t pay your bills. Should you just stop making your mortgage payment because you couldn’t bill your client for 2 weeks out of the month because of jury duty?

[zzz]

I don’t know how this applies to different courts, but I do know I was advised to do the following here in San Diegoand I was excused. I believe I was called for a federal court here in SD versus city. However, this did not work in past places I have lived.

If your income is derived from your ability to work – IE: sales, consulting, project based, you can indicate that your income is negatively affected if you are unable to work.

I don’t recall whether I asked for an exemption, but I know for certain that I did not ask for a postponement. I think I had to include the contact person and number at my work for the court to verify.

If you are for instance a consultant and make 100K a year, but have a $3k mortgage payment, plus another $2k in car payment and monthly household expenses, I would say its a financial hardship because you can’t pay your bills. Should you just stop making your mortgage payment because you couldn’t bill your client for 2 weeks out of the month because of jury duty?

[zzz]

I don’t know how this applies to different courts, but I do know I was advised to do the following here in San Diegoand I was excused. I believe I was called for a federal court here in SD versus city. However, this did not work in past places I have lived.

If your income is derived from your ability to work – IE: sales, consulting, project based, you can indicate that your income is negatively affected if you are unable to work.

I don’t recall whether I asked for an exemption, but I know for certain that I did not ask for a postponement. I think I had to include the contact person and number at my work for the court to verify.

If you are for instance a consultant and make 100K a year, but have a $3k mortgage payment, plus another $2k in car payment and monthly household expenses, I would say its a financial hardship because you can’t pay your bills. Should you just stop making your mortgage payment because you couldn’t bill your client for 2 weeks out of the month because of jury duty?

[zzz]

I don’t know how this applies to different courts, but I do know I was advised to do the following here in San Diegoand I was excused. I believe I was called for a federal court here in SD versus city. However, this did not work in past places I have lived.

If your income is derived from your ability to work – IE: sales, consulting, project based, you can indicate that your income is negatively affected if you are unable to work.

I don’t recall whether I asked for an exemption, but I know for certain that I did not ask for a postponement. I think I had to include the contact person and number at my work for the court to verify.

If you are for instance a consultant and make 100K a year, but have a $3k mortgage payment, plus another $2k in car payment and monthly household expenses, I would say its a financial hardship because you can’t pay your bills. Should you just stop making your mortgage payment because you couldn’t bill your client for 2 weeks out of the month because of jury duty?

[scaredyclassic]

1. people list their houses at prices they don’t really think they’ll get. prosecutors charge cases higher than they think they’re worth and hope to beat out a plea. sometimes it doesn’t work, and we go to trial on an attempted murder that is really an assault.

2. prosecutors do hate losing, but if the case is just ‘overcharged”, they don’t officially “lose” so longas they get a felony conviction. So, again, charge a bar fight as attempted murder, the exposure is life in prison, you get a conviction of assault, the exposure is 4 years in prison, the guy gets out on probation, the prosecutor will claim he “won”, the public defender will calim he kicked the prosecutor’s butt, and the juror’s will wonder why this couldnt have been worked out without a trial.

3. most cases are overcharged! but then again, this is all a matter of opinion an dpersonal values, liek the price of a house or any other value judgment. laywers and judges sometimes talk about the “value” of a case, “he’s good at figuring out how mucha case is worth”, but of course, it’s all nonsense. It’s “value” is dependent on so many variables, inclduing but not limited to the risk aversion of the defendant, the skill of the lawyers, the facts, the judge, the nature of the charge, whetehr witnesses could be tracked down, the defendant’s record and its affect on his ability to testify, and so forth.

4. my wife would be quite excellent at getting out of jury duty. She think I (and the system) are complete nonsense. Hopefully she wont be held in contempt next time she’s called down for jury duy.

5. the system isn’t nonsense. but it is scary!

6. Most people charged witha c rime probably are guilty of something. Maybe something lesser. Of course, the issue really isn’t whetehr most or almost all or virtually all people charged witha c rime are guilty. the issue is how generous youare going to be with your definition of reaosnable doubt. Do you think it’s betetr to let 10 guilty men go free than to put an innocent one in prison. What about 100? 1,000? 1,000,000? you’ll definitely freak out the proseuctor if you tell him it would be better to let a million guilty people go free than to let one inncoent man fester in priosn! I can virtually guarantee you’ll get kicked for that one. And yet that’s about where I would put my personal error rate. there can be no doubt –no reasonable doubt, and if you’re a reaonable person, any doubt you have is a reaosnable doubt — and if you have an doubt — no matter how tiny, or seemingly impossible, then you ust acquit, if you follwo the law. Otherwise, some inncoent people are going to get ground up int he system. Start talking aboutt his with the lawyers and you’ll freak someone out.

Drink Heavily.

[scaredyclassic]

1. people list their houses at prices they don’t really think they’ll get. prosecutors charge cases higher than they think they’re worth and hope to beat out a plea. sometimes it doesn’t work, and we go to trial on an attempted murder that is really an assault.

2. prosecutors do hate losing, but if the case is just ‘overcharged”, they don’t officially “lose” so longas they get a felony conviction. So, again, charge a bar fight as attempted murder, the exposure is life in prison, you get a conviction of assault, the exposure is 4 years in prison, the guy gets out on probation, the prosecutor will claim he “won”, the public defender will calim he kicked the prosecutor’s butt, and the juror’s will wonder why this couldnt have been worked out without a trial.

3. most cases are overcharged! but then again, this is all a matter of opinion an dpersonal values, liek the price of a house or any other value judgment. laywers and judges sometimes talk about the “value” of a case, “he’s good at figuring out how mucha case is worth”, but of course, it’s all nonsense. It’s “value” is dependent on so many variables, inclduing but not limited to the risk aversion of the defendant, the skill of the lawyers, the facts, the judge, the nature of the charge, whetehr witnesses could be tracked down, the defendant’s record and its affect on his ability to testify, and so forth.

4. my wife would be quite excellent at getting out of jury duty. She think I (and the system) are complete nonsense. Hopefully she wont be held in contempt next time she’s called down for jury duy.

5. the system isn’t nonsense. but it is scary!

6. Most people charged witha c rime probably are guilty of something. Maybe something lesser. Of course, the issue really isn’t whetehr most or almost all or virtually all people charged witha c rime are guilty. the issue is how generous youare going to be with your definition of reaosnable doubt. Do you think it’s betetr to let 10 guilty men go free than to put an innocent one in prison. What about 100? 1,000? 1,000,000? you’ll definitely freak out the proseuctor if you tell him it would be better to let a million guilty people go free than to let one inncoent man fester in priosn! I can virtually guarantee you’ll get kicked for that one. And yet that’s about where I would put my personal error rate. there can be no doubt –no reasonable doubt, and if you’re a reaonable person, any doubt you have is a reaosnable doubt — and if you have an doubt — no matter how tiny, or seemingly impossible, then you ust acquit, if you follwo the law. Otherwise, some inncoent people are going to get ground up int he system. Start talking aboutt his with the lawyers and you’ll freak someone out.

Drink Heavily.

[scaredyclassic]

1. people list their houses at prices they don’t really think they’ll get. prosecutors charge cases higher than they think they’re worth and hope to beat out a plea. sometimes it doesn’t work, and we go to trial on an attempted murder that is really an assault.

2. prosecutors do hate losing, but if the case is just ‘overcharged”, they don’t officially “lose” so longas they get a felony conviction. So, again, charge a bar fight as attempted murder, the exposure is life in prison, you get a conviction of assault, the exposure is 4 years in prison, the guy gets out on probation, the prosecutor will claim he “won”, the public defender will calim he kicked the prosecutor’s butt, and the juror’s will wonder why this couldnt have been worked out without a trial.

3. most cases are overcharged! but then again, this is all a matter of opinion an dpersonal values, liek the price of a house or any other value judgment. laywers and judges sometimes talk about the “value” of a case, “he’s good at figuring out how mucha case is worth”, but of course, it’s all nonsense. It’s “value” is dependent on so many variables, inclduing but not limited to the risk aversion of the defendant, the skill of the lawyers, the facts, the judge, the nature of the charge, whetehr witnesses could be tracked down, the defendant’s record and its affect on his ability to testify, and so forth.

4. my wife would be quite excellent at getting out of jury duty. She think I (and the system) are complete nonsense. Hopefully she wont be held in contempt next time she’s called down for jury duy.

5. the system isn’t nonsense. but it is scary!

6. Most people charged witha c rime probably are guilty of something. Maybe something lesser. Of course, the issue really isn’t whetehr most or almost all or virtually all people charged witha c rime are guilty. the issue is how generous youare going to be with your definition of reaosnable doubt. Do you think it’s betetr to let 10 guilty men go free than to put an innocent one in prison. What about 100? 1,000? 1,000,000? you’ll definitely freak out the proseuctor if you tell him it would be better to let a million guilty people go free than to let one inncoent man fester in priosn! I can virtually guarantee you’ll get kicked for that one. And yet that’s about where I would put my personal error rate. there can be no doubt –no reasonable doubt, and if you’re a reaonable person, any doubt you have is a reaosnable doubt — and if you have an doubt — no matter how tiny, or seemingly impossible, then you ust acquit, if you follwo the law. Otherwise, some inncoent people are going to get ground up int he system. Start talking aboutt his with the lawyers and you’ll freak someone out.

Drink Heavily.

[scaredyclassic]

1. people list their houses at prices they don’t really think they’ll get. prosecutors charge cases higher than they think they’re worth and hope to beat out a plea. sometimes it doesn’t work, and we go to trial on an attempted murder that is really an assault.

2. prosecutors do hate losing, but if the case is just ‘overcharged”, they don’t officially “lose” so longas they get a felony conviction. So, again, charge a bar fight as attempted murder, the exposure is life in prison, you get a conviction of assault, the exposure is 4 years in prison, the guy gets out on probation, the prosecutor will claim he “won”, the public defender will calim he kicked the prosecutor’s butt, and the juror’s will wonder why this couldnt have been worked out without a trial.

3. most cases are overcharged! but then again, this is all a matter of opinion an dpersonal values, liek the price of a house or any other value judgment. laywers and judges sometimes talk about the “value” of a case, “he’s good at figuring out how mucha case is worth”, but of course, it’s all nonsense. It’s “value” is dependent on so many variables, inclduing but not limited to the risk aversion of the defendant, the skill of the lawyers, the facts, the judge, the nature of the charge, whetehr witnesses could be tracked down, the defendant’s record and its affect on his ability to testify, and so forth.

4. my wife would be quite excellent at getting out of jury duty. She think I (and the system) are complete nonsense. Hopefully she wont be held in contempt next time she’s called down for jury duy.

5. the system isn’t nonsense. but it is scary!

6. Most people charged witha c rime probably are guilty of something. Maybe something lesser. Of course, the issue really isn’t whetehr most or almost all or virtually all people charged witha c rime are guilty. the issue is how generous youare going to be with your definition of reaosnable doubt. Do you think it’s betetr to let 10 guilty men go free than to put an innocent one in prison. What about 100? 1,000? 1,000,000? you’ll definitely freak out the proseuctor if you tell him it would be better to let a million guilty people go free than to let one inncoent man fester in priosn! I can virtually guarantee you’ll get kicked for that one. And yet that’s about where I would put my personal error rate. there can be no doubt –no reasonable doubt, and if you’re a reaonable person, any doubt you have is a reaosnable doubt — and if you have an doubt — no matter how tiny, or seemingly impossible, then you ust acquit, if you follwo the law. Otherwise, some inncoent people are going to get ground up int he system. Start talking aboutt his with the lawyers and you’ll freak someone out.

Drink Heavily.

[scaredyclassic]

1. people list their houses at prices they don’t really think they’ll get. prosecutors charge cases higher than they think they’re worth and hope to beat out a plea. sometimes it doesn’t work, and we go to trial on an attempted murder that is really an assault.

2. prosecutors do hate losing, but if the case is just ‘overcharged”, they don’t officially “lose” so longas they get a felony conviction. So, again, charge a bar fight as attempted murder, the exposure is life in prison, you get a conviction of assault, the exposure is 4 years in prison, the guy gets out on probation, the prosecutor will claim he “won”, the public defender will calim he kicked the prosecutor’s butt, and the juror’s will wonder why this couldnt have been worked out without a trial.

3. most cases are overcharged! but then again, this is all a matter of opinion an dpersonal values, liek the price of a house or any other value judgment. laywers and judges sometimes talk about the “value” of a case, “he’s good at figuring out how mucha case is worth”, but of course, it’s all nonsense. It’s “value” is dependent on so many variables, inclduing but not limited to the risk aversion of the defendant, the skill of the lawyers, the facts, the judge, the nature of the charge, whetehr witnesses could be tracked down, the defendant’s record and its affect on his ability to testify, and so forth.

4. my wife would be quite excellent at getting out of jury duty. She think I (and the system) are complete nonsense. Hopefully she wont be held in contempt next time she’s called down for jury duy.

5. the system isn’t nonsense. but it is scary!

6. Most people charged witha c rime probably are guilty of something. Maybe something lesser. Of course, the issue really isn’t whetehr most or almost all or virtually all people charged witha c rime are guilty. the issue is how generous youare going to be with your definition of reaosnable doubt. Do you think it’s betetr to let 10 guilty men go free than to put an innocent one in prison. What about 100? 1,000? 1,000,000? you’ll definitely freak out the proseuctor if you tell him it would be better to let a million guilty people go free than to let one inncoent man fester in priosn! I can virtually guarantee you’ll get kicked for that one. And yet that’s about where I would put my personal error rate. there can be no doubt –no reasonable doubt, and if you’re a reaonable person, any doubt you have is a reaosnable doubt — and if you have an doubt — no matter how tiny, or seemingly impossible, then you ust acquit, if you follwo the law. Otherwise, some inncoent people are going to get ground up int he system. Start talking aboutt his with the lawyers and you’ll freak someone out.

Drink Heavily.

[DWCAP]

I go to my first jury duty ever next week. OH man you can just feel my excitement. ………………………… 🙁

For me I guess it boils down to this, someone F’ed up and now I gotta deal with it. I have no idea if the person is guilty, or if the cops got the wrong guy, but either way, someone screwed up.

As for how many innocent people I would be willing to put in jail for guilty men going free, that depends entirely on the offence. Reckless endangerment cause you drove too fast on the freeway (not drunk), your looking at a good forgive and forget juror. Just the act of being tried is punishment enough for that. Shot 17 people while driving around randomly and running over little kids and puppies, your screwed.

Either way though, I would much rather have it worked out with a judge who is actually trained and paid to do this, and then appeal to a jury trial if sufficient reasons can be found. That way, youd get called once a decade instead of once a year, and everyone can still get a trial by peers if they have a good case.

[DWCAP]

I go to my first jury duty ever next week. OH man you can just feel my excitement. ………………………… 🙁

For me I guess it boils down to this, someone F’ed up and now I gotta deal with it. I have no idea if the person is guilty, or if the cops got the wrong guy, but either way, someone screwed up.

As for how many innocent people I would be willing to put in jail for guilty men going free, that depends entirely on the offence. Reckless endangerment cause you drove too fast on the freeway (not drunk), your looking at a good forgive and forget juror. Just the act of being tried is punishment enough for that. Shot 17 people while driving around randomly and running over little kids and puppies, your screwed.

Either way though, I would much rather have it worked out with a judge who is actually trained and paid to do this, and then appeal to a jury trial if sufficient reasons can be found. That way, youd get called once a decade instead of once a year, and everyone can still get a trial by peers if they have a good case.

[DWCAP]

I go to my first jury duty ever next week. OH man you can just feel my excitement. ………………………… 🙁

For me I guess it boils down to this, someone F’ed up and now I gotta deal with it. I have no idea if the person is guilty, or if the cops got the wrong guy, but either way, someone screwed up.

As for how many innocent people I would be willing to put in jail for guilty men going free, that depends entirely on the offence. Reckless endangerment cause you drove too fast on the freeway (not drunk), your looking at a good forgive and forget juror. Just the act of being tried is punishment enough for that. Shot 17 people while driving around randomly and running over little kids and puppies, your screwed.

Either way though, I would much rather have it worked out with a judge who is actually trained and paid to do this, and then appeal to a jury trial if sufficient reasons can be found. That way, youd get called once a decade instead of once a year, and everyone can still get a trial by peers if they have a good case.

[DWCAP]

I go to my first jury duty ever next week. OH man you can just feel my excitement. ………………………… 🙁

For me I guess it boils down to this, someone F’ed up and now I gotta deal with it. I have no idea if the person is guilty, or if the cops got the wrong guy, but either way, someone screwed up.

As for how many innocent people I would be willing to put in jail for guilty men going free, that depends entirely on the offence. Reckless endangerment cause you drove too fast on the freeway (not drunk), your looking at a good forgive and forget juror. Just the act of being tried is punishment enough for that. Shot 17 people while driving around randomly and running over little kids and puppies, your screwed.

Either way though, I would much rather have it worked out with a judge who is actually trained and paid to do this, and then appeal to a jury trial if sufficient reasons can be found. That way, youd get called once a decade instead of once a year, and everyone can still get a trial by peers if they have a good case.

[Author]

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