OT: Individualism vs. Collectivism

[CA renter]

Communism is the idea of a free society with no division or alienation, where mankind is free from oppression and scarcity.
—————-

Sounds like what Russia had was, by your own definition, not communism.

Also, some of us would argue that socialism is not a transitional phase, but can be the center-point as a society drifts back-and-forth between the two extremes — as would be necessary to keep a true balance.

IMO, “We the People” should own the nation’s rights to (or control of) all basic necessities. If we allow small groups/individuals to control these things [water, air, food, healthcare, shelter (to an extent), national defense, etc.], we end up with an oligopoly. This is very detrimental to society, IMO. It’s also exactly what we have now.

I’d much rather live in a society where all people are treated with respect and compassion, and where the public has an ability to defend itself against Darwinian capitalists who would rather rape the earth to benefit themselves.

[jficquette]

[quote=afx114]Oh, and we should banish the internet too.[/quote]

Actually its your socialist heroes in congress who are trying to censor the Internet. LOL.

John

[jficquette]

[quote=afx114]Oh, and we should banish the internet too.[/quote]

Actually its your socialist heroes in congress who are trying to censor the Internet. LOL.

John

[jficquette]

[quote=afx114]Oh, and we should banish the internet too.[/quote]

Actually its your socialist heroes in congress who are trying to censor the Internet. LOL.

John

[jficquette]

[quote=afx114]Oh, and we should banish the internet too.[/quote]

Actually its your socialist heroes in congress who are trying to censor the Internet. LOL.

John

[jficquette]

[quote=afx114]Oh, and we should banish the internet too.[/quote]

Actually its your socialist heroes in congress who are trying to censor the Internet. LOL.

John

[Eugene]

Stalin killed 20 million of his own people in the early, mid 30’s by starving them to death and in military purges.

When is the last time a society that put the individual first murdered 20 million of its own?? When is the last time America killed 20 million of its own on purpose?? No difference between America and Russia??

Just to clarify.

Official execution figures from KGB archives speak of approximately 800,000 people executed during Stalin’s reign, or 30,000 people per year. United States could match this rate simply by executing all convicted murderers and rapists.

1920’s Soviet Union was largely a pre-industrial country, little to no machinery, low agriculture yields, etc. Outside Moscow and St. Petersburg, there were few doctors, literacy rate was well below 50%. (Also, did I mention 3-month summers and 6-month winters?) Famines were not uncommon. Stalin’s collectivization and industrialization program put an end to those famines.

If you think that letting large numbers of your citizens die qualifies as “collectivism”, go and read up on Ireland in 1845-49, and then let’s discuss why 19th century UK was a collectivist state.

[Eugene]

Stalin killed 20 million of his own people in the early, mid 30’s by starving them to death and in military purges.

When is the last time a society that put the individual first murdered 20 million of its own?? When is the last time America killed 20 million of its own on purpose?? No difference between America and Russia??

Just to clarify.

Official execution figures from KGB archives speak of approximately 800,000 people executed during Stalin’s reign, or 30,000 people per year. United States could match this rate simply by executing all convicted murderers and rapists.

1920’s Soviet Union was largely a pre-industrial country, little to no machinery, low agriculture yields, etc. Outside Moscow and St. Petersburg, there were few doctors, literacy rate was well below 50%. (Also, did I mention 3-month summers and 6-month winters?) Famines were not uncommon. Stalin’s collectivization and industrialization program put an end to those famines.

If you think that letting large numbers of your citizens die qualifies as “collectivism”, go and read up on Ireland in 1845-49, and then let’s discuss why 19th century UK was a collectivist state.

[Eugene]

Stalin killed 20 million of his own people in the early, mid 30’s by starving them to death and in military purges.

When is the last time a society that put the individual first murdered 20 million of its own?? When is the last time America killed 20 million of its own on purpose?? No difference between America and Russia??

Just to clarify.

Official execution figures from KGB archives speak of approximately 800,000 people executed during Stalin’s reign, or 30,000 people per year. United States could match this rate simply by executing all convicted murderers and rapists.

1920’s Soviet Union was largely a pre-industrial country, little to no machinery, low agriculture yields, etc. Outside Moscow and St. Petersburg, there were few doctors, literacy rate was well below 50%. (Also, did I mention 3-month summers and 6-month winters?) Famines were not uncommon. Stalin’s collectivization and industrialization program put an end to those famines.

If you think that letting large numbers of your citizens die qualifies as “collectivism”, go and read up on Ireland in 1845-49, and then let’s discuss why 19th century UK was a collectivist state.

[Eugene]

Stalin killed 20 million of his own people in the early, mid 30’s by starving them to death and in military purges.

When is the last time a society that put the individual first murdered 20 million of its own?? When is the last time America killed 20 million of its own on purpose?? No difference between America and Russia??

Just to clarify.

Official execution figures from KGB archives speak of approximately 800,000 people executed during Stalin’s reign, or 30,000 people per year. United States could match this rate simply by executing all convicted murderers and rapists.

1920’s Soviet Union was largely a pre-industrial country, little to no machinery, low agriculture yields, etc. Outside Moscow and St. Petersburg, there were few doctors, literacy rate was well below 50%. (Also, did I mention 3-month summers and 6-month winters?) Famines were not uncommon. Stalin’s collectivization and industrialization program put an end to those famines.

If you think that letting large numbers of your citizens die qualifies as “collectivism”, go and read up on Ireland in 1845-49, and then let’s discuss why 19th century UK was a collectivist state.

[Eugene]

Stalin killed 20 million of his own people in the early, mid 30’s by starving them to death and in military purges.

When is the last time a society that put the individual first murdered 20 million of its own?? When is the last time America killed 20 million of its own on purpose?? No difference between America and Russia??

Just to clarify.

Official execution figures from KGB archives speak of approximately 800,000 people executed during Stalin’s reign, or 30,000 people per year. United States could match this rate simply by executing all convicted murderers and rapists.

1920’s Soviet Union was largely a pre-industrial country, little to no machinery, low agriculture yields, etc. Outside Moscow and St. Petersburg, there were few doctors, literacy rate was well below 50%. (Also, did I mention 3-month summers and 6-month winters?) Famines were not uncommon. Stalin’s collectivization and industrialization program put an end to those famines.

If you think that letting large numbers of your citizens die qualifies as “collectivism”, go and read up on Ireland in 1845-49, and then let’s discuss why 19th century UK was a collectivist state.

[jficquette]

[quote=esmith]Stalin killed 20 million of his own people in the early, mid 30’s by starving them to death and in military purges.

When is the last time a society that put the individual first murdered 20 million of its own?? When is the last time America killed 20 million of its own on purpose?? No difference between America and Russia??

Just to clarify.

Official execution figures from KGB archives speak of approximately 800,000 people executed during Stalin’s reign, or 30,000 people per year. United States could match this rate simply by executing all convicted murderers and rapists.

1920’s Soviet Union was largely a pre-industrial country, little to no machinery, low agriculture yields, etc. Outside Moscow and St. Petersburg, there were few doctors, literacy rate was well below 50%. (Also, did I mention 3-month summers and 6-month winters?) Famines were not uncommon. Stalin’s collectivization and industrialization program put an end to those famines.

If you think that letting large numbers of your citizens die qualifies as “collectivism”, go and read up on Ireland in 1845-49, and then let’s discuss why 19th century UK was a collectivist state.[/quote]

Esmith,

Stalin has always been accused of killing millions. I saw it claimed again in a history presentation on his life a couple of weeks ago on the history channel.

Stalin was the most evil man of the 20th century. You would have to back to Vlad the Impaler to find a worst person.

Why do you believe the KGB files? What leader post Stalin would want an offical record of millions dying??

Collectism letting millions die shows that Collectism as a social order doesn’t work.

John

[jficquette]

[quote=esmith]Stalin killed 20 million of his own people in the early, mid 30’s by starving them to death and in military purges.

When is the last time a society that put the individual first murdered 20 million of its own?? When is the last time America killed 20 million of its own on purpose?? No difference between America and Russia??

Just to clarify.

Official execution figures from KGB archives speak of approximately 800,000 people executed during Stalin’s reign, or 30,000 people per year. United States could match this rate simply by executing all convicted murderers and rapists.

1920’s Soviet Union was largely a pre-industrial country, little to no machinery, low agriculture yields, etc. Outside Moscow and St. Petersburg, there were few doctors, literacy rate was well below 50%. (Also, did I mention 3-month summers and 6-month winters?) Famines were not uncommon. Stalin’s collectivization and industrialization program put an end to those famines.

If you think that letting large numbers of your citizens die qualifies as “collectivism”, go and read up on Ireland in 1845-49, and then let’s discuss why 19th century UK was a collectivist state.[/quote]

Esmith,

Stalin has always been accused of killing millions. I saw it claimed again in a history presentation on his life a couple of weeks ago on the history channel.

Stalin was the most evil man of the 20th century. You would have to back to Vlad the Impaler to find a worst person.

Why do you believe the KGB files? What leader post Stalin would want an offical record of millions dying??

Collectism letting millions die shows that Collectism as a social order doesn’t work.

John

[jficquette]

[quote=esmith]Stalin killed 20 million of his own people in the early, mid 30’s by starving them to death and in military purges.

When is the last time a society that put the individual first murdered 20 million of its own?? When is the last time America killed 20 million of its own on purpose?? No difference between America and Russia??

Just to clarify.

Official execution figures from KGB archives speak of approximately 800,000 people executed during Stalin’s reign, or 30,000 people per year. United States could match this rate simply by executing all convicted murderers and rapists.

1920’s Soviet Union was largely a pre-industrial country, little to no machinery, low agriculture yields, etc. Outside Moscow and St. Petersburg, there were few doctors, literacy rate was well below 50%. (Also, did I mention 3-month summers and 6-month winters?) Famines were not uncommon. Stalin’s collectivization and industrialization program put an end to those famines.

If you think that letting large numbers of your citizens die qualifies as “collectivism”, go and read up on Ireland in 1845-49, and then let’s discuss why 19th century UK was a collectivist state.[/quote]

Esmith,

Stalin has always been accused of killing millions. I saw it claimed again in a history presentation on his life a couple of weeks ago on the history channel.

Stalin was the most evil man of the 20th century. You would have to back to Vlad the Impaler to find a worst person.

Why do you believe the KGB files? What leader post Stalin would want an offical record of millions dying??

Collectism letting millions die shows that Collectism as a social order doesn’t work.

John

[jficquette]

[quote=esmith]Stalin killed 20 million of his own people in the early, mid 30’s by starving them to death and in military purges.

When is the last time a society that put the individual first murdered 20 million of its own?? When is the last time America killed 20 million of its own on purpose?? No difference between America and Russia??

Just to clarify.

Official execution figures from KGB archives speak of approximately 800,000 people executed during Stalin’s reign, or 30,000 people per year. United States could match this rate simply by executing all convicted murderers and rapists.

1920’s Soviet Union was largely a pre-industrial country, little to no machinery, low agriculture yields, etc. Outside Moscow and St. Petersburg, there were few doctors, literacy rate was well below 50%. (Also, did I mention 3-month summers and 6-month winters?) Famines were not uncommon. Stalin’s collectivization and industrialization program put an end to those famines.

If you think that letting large numbers of your citizens die qualifies as “collectivism”, go and read up on Ireland in 1845-49, and then let’s discuss why 19th century UK was a collectivist state.[/quote]

Esmith,

Stalin has always been accused of killing millions. I saw it claimed again in a history presentation on his life a couple of weeks ago on the history channel.

Stalin was the most evil man of the 20th century. You would have to back to Vlad the Impaler to find a worst person.

Why do you believe the KGB files? What leader post Stalin would want an offical record of millions dying??

Collectism letting millions die shows that Collectism as a social order doesn’t work.

John

[Author]

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