OT – GOP is being carried to the extreme

[briansd1]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Brian: Containment of Iraq worked well for “several decades”? Really? Which “several” decades are we talking about?
[/quote]

Wasn’t Saddam Hussein in power from 1979 to 2003?
Didn’t we use Iran and Iran against each other for our security purposes?

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Again, Brian, what we have here is your inability to discern/distinguish differences and thus you simply lump everything together under the term “conservative”.

As a Jesuit educated Catholic, I was taught that BOTH Faith and Reason are the wings of enlightenment. For someone who is supposedly a reasoned “believer”, you seem to have a hard time understanding truly conservative positions and would rather blindly broad brush anyone you don’t agree with, or that doesn’t agree with you, as an unthinking, blinkered ignoramus. [/quote]

Allan, I can discern the differences very well. And I think that you, Allan, are fairly honest in your views.

I was making references to conservative Republicans in general. They are not intellectually honest and only a big-gun, an-eye-for-an-eye approach works with them. To them, trying to debate rationally only indicates that you’re a wuss.

The base of the Republican party is a joke. They are a bunch of ranting, loud, vulgar, ignorant and overweight working-class thugs. They wear oversized outfits not different than the hoodlums of the inner city.

They hardly represent the conservative values of impeccable Christian upbringing and decorum.

Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh, the way they rant and gesture, sound like low-class union organizers, not conservative intellectuals.

[felix]

[quote=patb][quote=felix]

If Obama wants to put an end to pre-existing conditions or being dropped from coverage or work to limit drug costs and enact tort reform, he could do that very easily with almost unanimous bipartisan support and for almost no cost to taxpayers what so ever. Folks too also almost unanimously support these.

Next, blaming the financial crisis on Bush means you aren’t doing your homework. Bush and McCain both warned of massive loan problems emanating from Dem run and overseen, Fannie and Freddie, and rule forcing loans to be made to folks with dubious credit.

And the Dems (Clinton signed the bill in 2000)had a big part in allowing dubious financial instruments to be exchange traded. These mortgage instruments had been illegal since the depression.
And by the way, it’s almost a year later and the Obama Administration and our Congress has done nothing to end this trading.

.[/quote]

Obama could propose making the Sunday the National Day of Prayer
and the GOP would oppose it. Name one initiative he’s started
where the GOP is in block supporting him?

As for the Problems at Fannie/Freddie? The GOP was running
the government, they could have changed it. They had the White House
the Congress and they were appointing the majority of the Fannie Board.

Also the 1999 Banking regs changes were pushed through under
the Gramm-Leach-Bliley bill. Clinton conceded, but it was Phil Gramms
theories.

in 2003, the GOP pushed through the commodities modernization bill
which allowed Credit Default Swaps.

Sorry the financial crisis was a GOP/Neo-conservative disaster.[/quote]

The credit swaps only became a problem because folks couldn’t afford to pay their loans. The only reason folks of dubious credit were allowed, even to a certain extent required to get loans was the Dems. All the exotic financial instrument issues stem from the failure of the real estate market over regulated by the Dems through Fannie and Freddie.

And the GOP was not controlling Fannie and Freddie in the upswing into this financial crisis. During the period leading up to the crisis oversight of Fannie and Freddie fell to the misleadership of Barney Frank, the chairman of the House of Representatives committee on financial services. In fact, in 2004, when W and McCain tried to point out the insolvency of both, Frank said he knew of no problems at Frannie and Freddie.

It was the Dems who pushed for loans being made available at favorable rates for folks who couldn’t qualify under more rigid standards.

You have your head in the sand if you don’t look into the major part many Dems played in creating and still perpetuating this crisis. And even worse, doing very little to prevent it happening again.

When will the Obama administration do away with the exotic instrument trading that Bill Clinton signed into law? Isn’t a year after the $hit hit the fan time enough to act? When will Frank stop requiring folks of dubious credit being allowed to get loans?

[felix]

[quote=patb][quote=felix]

If Obama wants to put an end to pre-existing conditions or being dropped from coverage or work to limit drug costs and enact tort reform, he could do that very easily with almost unanimous bipartisan support and for almost no cost to taxpayers what so ever. Folks too also almost unanimously support these.

Next, blaming the financial crisis on Bush means you aren’t doing your homework. Bush and McCain both warned of massive loan problems emanating from Dem run and overseen, Fannie and Freddie, and rule forcing loans to be made to folks with dubious credit.

And the Dems (Clinton signed the bill in 2000)had a big part in allowing dubious financial instruments to be exchange traded. These mortgage instruments had been illegal since the depression.
And by the way, it’s almost a year later and the Obama Administration and our Congress has done nothing to end this trading.

.[/quote]

Obama could propose making the Sunday the National Day of Prayer
and the GOP would oppose it. Name one initiative he’s started
where the GOP is in block supporting him?

As for the Problems at Fannie/Freddie? The GOP was running
the government, they could have changed it. They had the White House
the Congress and they were appointing the majority of the Fannie Board.

Also the 1999 Banking regs changes were pushed through under
the Gramm-Leach-Bliley bill. Clinton conceded, but it was Phil Gramms
theories.

in 2003, the GOP pushed through the commodities modernization bill
which allowed Credit Default Swaps.

Sorry the financial crisis was a GOP/Neo-conservative disaster.[/quote]

The credit swaps only became a problem because folks couldn’t afford to pay their loans. The only reason folks of dubious credit were allowed, even to a certain extent required to get loans was the Dems. All the exotic financial instrument issues stem from the failure of the real estate market over regulated by the Dems through Fannie and Freddie.

And the GOP was not controlling Fannie and Freddie in the upswing into this financial crisis. During the period leading up to the crisis oversight of Fannie and Freddie fell to the misleadership of Barney Frank, the chairman of the House of Representatives committee on financial services. In fact, in 2004, when W and McCain tried to point out the insolvency of both, Frank said he knew of no problems at Frannie and Freddie.

It was the Dems who pushed for loans being made available at favorable rates for folks who couldn’t qualify under more rigid standards.

You have your head in the sand if you don’t look into the major part many Dems played in creating and still perpetuating this crisis. And even worse, doing very little to prevent it happening again.

When will the Obama administration do away with the exotic instrument trading that Bill Clinton signed into law? Isn’t a year after the $hit hit the fan time enough to act? When will Frank stop requiring folks of dubious credit being allowed to get loans?

[felix]

[quote=patb][quote=felix]

If Obama wants to put an end to pre-existing conditions or being dropped from coverage or work to limit drug costs and enact tort reform, he could do that very easily with almost unanimous bipartisan support and for almost no cost to taxpayers what so ever. Folks too also almost unanimously support these.

Next, blaming the financial crisis on Bush means you aren’t doing your homework. Bush and McCain both warned of massive loan problems emanating from Dem run and overseen, Fannie and Freddie, and rule forcing loans to be made to folks with dubious credit.

And the Dems (Clinton signed the bill in 2000)had a big part in allowing dubious financial instruments to be exchange traded. These mortgage instruments had been illegal since the depression.
And by the way, it’s almost a year later and the Obama Administration and our Congress has done nothing to end this trading.

.[/quote]

Obama could propose making the Sunday the National Day of Prayer
and the GOP would oppose it. Name one initiative he’s started
where the GOP is in block supporting him?

As for the Problems at Fannie/Freddie? The GOP was running
the government, they could have changed it. They had the White House
the Congress and they were appointing the majority of the Fannie Board.

Also the 1999 Banking regs changes were pushed through under
the Gramm-Leach-Bliley bill. Clinton conceded, but it was Phil Gramms
theories.

in 2003, the GOP pushed through the commodities modernization bill
which allowed Credit Default Swaps.

Sorry the financial crisis was a GOP/Neo-conservative disaster.[/quote]

The credit swaps only became a problem because folks couldn’t afford to pay their loans. The only reason folks of dubious credit were allowed, even to a certain extent required to get loans was the Dems. All the exotic financial instrument issues stem from the failure of the real estate market over regulated by the Dems through Fannie and Freddie.

And the GOP was not controlling Fannie and Freddie in the upswing into this financial crisis. During the period leading up to the crisis oversight of Fannie and Freddie fell to the misleadership of Barney Frank, the chairman of the House of Representatives committee on financial services. In fact, in 2004, when W and McCain tried to point out the insolvency of both, Frank said he knew of no problems at Frannie and Freddie.

It was the Dems who pushed for loans being made available at favorable rates for folks who couldn’t qualify under more rigid standards.

You have your head in the sand if you don’t look into the major part many Dems played in creating and still perpetuating this crisis. And even worse, doing very little to prevent it happening again.

When will the Obama administration do away with the exotic instrument trading that Bill Clinton signed into law? Isn’t a year after the $hit hit the fan time enough to act? When will Frank stop requiring folks of dubious credit being allowed to get loans?

[felix]

[quote=patb][quote=felix]

If Obama wants to put an end to pre-existing conditions or being dropped from coverage or work to limit drug costs and enact tort reform, he could do that very easily with almost unanimous bipartisan support and for almost no cost to taxpayers what so ever. Folks too also almost unanimously support these.

Next, blaming the financial crisis on Bush means you aren’t doing your homework. Bush and McCain both warned of massive loan problems emanating from Dem run and overseen, Fannie and Freddie, and rule forcing loans to be made to folks with dubious credit.

And the Dems (Clinton signed the bill in 2000)had a big part in allowing dubious financial instruments to be exchange traded. These mortgage instruments had been illegal since the depression.
And by the way, it’s almost a year later and the Obama Administration and our Congress has done nothing to end this trading.

.[/quote]

Obama could propose making the Sunday the National Day of Prayer
and the GOP would oppose it. Name one initiative he’s started
where the GOP is in block supporting him?

As for the Problems at Fannie/Freddie? The GOP was running
the government, they could have changed it. They had the White House
the Congress and they were appointing the majority of the Fannie Board.

Also the 1999 Banking regs changes were pushed through under
the Gramm-Leach-Bliley bill. Clinton conceded, but it was Phil Gramms
theories.

in 2003, the GOP pushed through the commodities modernization bill
which allowed Credit Default Swaps.

Sorry the financial crisis was a GOP/Neo-conservative disaster.[/quote]

The credit swaps only became a problem because folks couldn’t afford to pay their loans. The only reason folks of dubious credit were allowed, even to a certain extent required to get loans was the Dems. All the exotic financial instrument issues stem from the failure of the real estate market over regulated by the Dems through Fannie and Freddie.

And the GOP was not controlling Fannie and Freddie in the upswing into this financial crisis. During the period leading up to the crisis oversight of Fannie and Freddie fell to the misleadership of Barney Frank, the chairman of the House of Representatives committee on financial services. In fact, in 2004, when W and McCain tried to point out the insolvency of both, Frank said he knew of no problems at Frannie and Freddie.

It was the Dems who pushed for loans being made available at favorable rates for folks who couldn’t qualify under more rigid standards.

You have your head in the sand if you don’t look into the major part many Dems played in creating and still perpetuating this crisis. And even worse, doing very little to prevent it happening again.

When will the Obama administration do away with the exotic instrument trading that Bill Clinton signed into law? Isn’t a year after the $hit hit the fan time enough to act? When will Frank stop requiring folks of dubious credit being allowed to get loans?

[felix]

[quote=patb][quote=felix]

If Obama wants to put an end to pre-existing conditions or being dropped from coverage or work to limit drug costs and enact tort reform, he could do that very easily with almost unanimous bipartisan support and for almost no cost to taxpayers what so ever. Folks too also almost unanimously support these.

Next, blaming the financial crisis on Bush means you aren’t doing your homework. Bush and McCain both warned of massive loan problems emanating from Dem run and overseen, Fannie and Freddie, and rule forcing loans to be made to folks with dubious credit.

And the Dems (Clinton signed the bill in 2000)had a big part in allowing dubious financial instruments to be exchange traded. These mortgage instruments had been illegal since the depression.
And by the way, it’s almost a year later and the Obama Administration and our Congress has done nothing to end this trading.

.[/quote]

Obama could propose making the Sunday the National Day of Prayer
and the GOP would oppose it. Name one initiative he’s started
where the GOP is in block supporting him?

As for the Problems at Fannie/Freddie? The GOP was running
the government, they could have changed it. They had the White House
the Congress and they were appointing the majority of the Fannie Board.

Also the 1999 Banking regs changes were pushed through under
the Gramm-Leach-Bliley bill. Clinton conceded, but it was Phil Gramms
theories.

in 2003, the GOP pushed through the commodities modernization bill
which allowed Credit Default Swaps.

Sorry the financial crisis was a GOP/Neo-conservative disaster.[/quote]

The credit swaps only became a problem because folks couldn’t afford to pay their loans. The only reason folks of dubious credit were allowed, even to a certain extent required to get loans was the Dems. All the exotic financial instrument issues stem from the failure of the real estate market over regulated by the Dems through Fannie and Freddie.

And the GOP was not controlling Fannie and Freddie in the upswing into this financial crisis. During the period leading up to the crisis oversight of Fannie and Freddie fell to the misleadership of Barney Frank, the chairman of the House of Representatives committee on financial services. In fact, in 2004, when W and McCain tried to point out the insolvency of both, Frank said he knew of no problems at Frannie and Freddie.

It was the Dems who pushed for loans being made available at favorable rates for folks who couldn’t qualify under more rigid standards.

You have your head in the sand if you don’t look into the major part many Dems played in creating and still perpetuating this crisis. And even worse, doing very little to prevent it happening again.

When will the Obama administration do away with the exotic instrument trading that Bill Clinton signed into law? Isn’t a year after the $hit hit the fan time enough to act? When will Frank stop requiring folks of dubious credit being allowed to get loans?

[briansd1]

[quote=felix]
And the GOP was not controlling Fannie and Freddie in the upswing into this financial crisis. During the period leading up to the crisis oversight of Fannie and Freddie fell to the misleadership of Barney Frank, the chairman of the House of Representatives committee on financial services. In fact, in 2004, when W and McCain tried to point out the insolvency of both, Frank said he knew of no problems at Frannie and Freddie.

It was the Dems who pushed for loans being made available at favorable rates for folks who couldn’t qualify under more rigid standards.

You have your head in the sand if you don’t look into the major part many Dems played in creating and still perpetuating this crisis. And even worse, doing very little to prevent it happening again.
[/quote]

Felix, this was debated before. The agency-backed mortgage securities only played a small part in the financial collapse.

Most of the debts that went bad did not have agency backing. They are private sector debt.

Stop blaming the GSEs.

Who loosened agency standards in order to bail out the real estate market in 2006/2007? Bush.

Without government backing, mortgages would be sky high right now because the private secondary market is frozen.

I personally would have loved to see a real crash in the real estate market. That would have thrown all the real estate contractors in San Diego who tend to be Republicans (who btw have no qualms about employing illegals) out onto the street.

[briansd1]

[quote=felix]
And the GOP was not controlling Fannie and Freddie in the upswing into this financial crisis. During the period leading up to the crisis oversight of Fannie and Freddie fell to the misleadership of Barney Frank, the chairman of the House of Representatives committee on financial services. In fact, in 2004, when W and McCain tried to point out the insolvency of both, Frank said he knew of no problems at Frannie and Freddie.

It was the Dems who pushed for loans being made available at favorable rates for folks who couldn’t qualify under more rigid standards.

You have your head in the sand if you don’t look into the major part many Dems played in creating and still perpetuating this crisis. And even worse, doing very little to prevent it happening again.
[/quote]

Felix, this was debated before. The agency-backed mortgage securities only played a small part in the financial collapse.

Most of the debts that went bad did not have agency backing. They are private sector debt.

Stop blaming the GSEs.

Who loosened agency standards in order to bail out the real estate market in 2006/2007? Bush.

Without government backing, mortgages would be sky high right now because the private secondary market is frozen.

I personally would have loved to see a real crash in the real estate market. That would have thrown all the real estate contractors in San Diego who tend to be Republicans (who btw have no qualms about employing illegals) out onto the street.

[briansd1]

[quote=felix]
And the GOP was not controlling Fannie and Freddie in the upswing into this financial crisis. During the period leading up to the crisis oversight of Fannie and Freddie fell to the misleadership of Barney Frank, the chairman of the House of Representatives committee on financial services. In fact, in 2004, when W and McCain tried to point out the insolvency of both, Frank said he knew of no problems at Frannie and Freddie.

It was the Dems who pushed for loans being made available at favorable rates for folks who couldn’t qualify under more rigid standards.

You have your head in the sand if you don’t look into the major part many Dems played in creating and still perpetuating this crisis. And even worse, doing very little to prevent it happening again.
[/quote]

Felix, this was debated before. The agency-backed mortgage securities only played a small part in the financial collapse.

Most of the debts that went bad did not have agency backing. They are private sector debt.

Stop blaming the GSEs.

Who loosened agency standards in order to bail out the real estate market in 2006/2007? Bush.

Without government backing, mortgages would be sky high right now because the private secondary market is frozen.

I personally would have loved to see a real crash in the real estate market. That would have thrown all the real estate contractors in San Diego who tend to be Republicans (who btw have no qualms about employing illegals) out onto the street.

[briansd1]

[quote=felix]
And the GOP was not controlling Fannie and Freddie in the upswing into this financial crisis. During the period leading up to the crisis oversight of Fannie and Freddie fell to the misleadership of Barney Frank, the chairman of the House of Representatives committee on financial services. In fact, in 2004, when W and McCain tried to point out the insolvency of both, Frank said he knew of no problems at Frannie and Freddie.

It was the Dems who pushed for loans being made available at favorable rates for folks who couldn’t qualify under more rigid standards.

You have your head in the sand if you don’t look into the major part many Dems played in creating and still perpetuating this crisis. And even worse, doing very little to prevent it happening again.
[/quote]

Felix, this was debated before. The agency-backed mortgage securities only played a small part in the financial collapse.

Most of the debts that went bad did not have agency backing. They are private sector debt.

Stop blaming the GSEs.

Who loosened agency standards in order to bail out the real estate market in 2006/2007? Bush.

Without government backing, mortgages would be sky high right now because the private secondary market is frozen.

I personally would have loved to see a real crash in the real estate market. That would have thrown all the real estate contractors in San Diego who tend to be Republicans (who btw have no qualms about employing illegals) out onto the street.

[briansd1]

[quote=felix]
And the GOP was not controlling Fannie and Freddie in the upswing into this financial crisis. During the period leading up to the crisis oversight of Fannie and Freddie fell to the misleadership of Barney Frank, the chairman of the House of Representatives committee on financial services. In fact, in 2004, when W and McCain tried to point out the insolvency of both, Frank said he knew of no problems at Frannie and Freddie.

It was the Dems who pushed for loans being made available at favorable rates for folks who couldn’t qualify under more rigid standards.

You have your head in the sand if you don’t look into the major part many Dems played in creating and still perpetuating this crisis. And even worse, doing very little to prevent it happening again.
[/quote]

Felix, this was debated before. The agency-backed mortgage securities only played a small part in the financial collapse.

Most of the debts that went bad did not have agency backing. They are private sector debt.

Stop blaming the GSEs.

Who loosened agency standards in order to bail out the real estate market in 2006/2007? Bush.

Without government backing, mortgages would be sky high right now because the private secondary market is frozen.

I personally would have loved to see a real crash in the real estate market. That would have thrown all the real estate contractors in San Diego who tend to be Republicans (who btw have no qualms about employing illegals) out onto the street.

[briansd1]

BTW, Allan, please don’t think that my previous comments about the military mean that I’m against the military.

My comments were just meant to point out the contradictions in the Republican’s unwavering support of the military.

I actually believe that the military is a great equalizer. It’s a huge jobs program for those who don’t have opportunities in the private sector. Those workers only need to put time and effort and discipline. In return, the military will build their muscles and brains.

In that way, the military is a great social experiment where jobs, health care, pensions, childcare, counseling, and housing are available to all.

The military is also a great “integrator” of people of all races. I see a lot of soldiers with friends of all races; and I also see many inter-racial couples in the military. Many Black soldiers have White girlfriends and vice-versa. When soldiers are stationed overseas, many of them bring back foreign brides.

Of course, we all know that the military was integrated before the country was.

I support the military. But I don’t support war.

The “real” Americans who think that the military is preserving their “way of life” better think again.

[briansd1]

BTW, Allan, please don’t think that my previous comments about the military mean that I’m against the military.

My comments were just meant to point out the contradictions in the Republican’s unwavering support of the military.

I actually believe that the military is a great equalizer. It’s a huge jobs program for those who don’t have opportunities in the private sector. Those workers only need to put time and effort and discipline. In return, the military will build their muscles and brains.

In that way, the military is a great social experiment where jobs, health care, pensions, childcare, counseling, and housing are available to all.

The military is also a great “integrator” of people of all races. I see a lot of soldiers with friends of all races; and I also see many inter-racial couples in the military. Many Black soldiers have White girlfriends and vice-versa. When soldiers are stationed overseas, many of them bring back foreign brides.

Of course, we all know that the military was integrated before the country was.

I support the military. But I don’t support war.

The “real” Americans who think that the military is preserving their “way of life” better think again.

[briansd1]

BTW, Allan, please don’t think that my previous comments about the military mean that I’m against the military.

My comments were just meant to point out the contradictions in the Republican’s unwavering support of the military.

I actually believe that the military is a great equalizer. It’s a huge jobs program for those who don’t have opportunities in the private sector. Those workers only need to put time and effort and discipline. In return, the military will build their muscles and brains.

In that way, the military is a great social experiment where jobs, health care, pensions, childcare, counseling, and housing are available to all.

The military is also a great “integrator” of people of all races. I see a lot of soldiers with friends of all races; and I also see many inter-racial couples in the military. Many Black soldiers have White girlfriends and vice-versa. When soldiers are stationed overseas, many of them bring back foreign brides.

Of course, we all know that the military was integrated before the country was.

I support the military. But I don’t support war.

The “real” Americans who think that the military is preserving their “way of life” better think again.

[briansd1]

BTW, Allan, please don’t think that my previous comments about the military mean that I’m against the military.

My comments were just meant to point out the contradictions in the Republican’s unwavering support of the military.

I actually believe that the military is a great equalizer. It’s a huge jobs program for those who don’t have opportunities in the private sector. Those workers only need to put time and effort and discipline. In return, the military will build their muscles and brains.

In that way, the military is a great social experiment where jobs, health care, pensions, childcare, counseling, and housing are available to all.

The military is also a great “integrator” of people of all races. I see a lot of soldiers with friends of all races; and I also see many inter-racial couples in the military. Many Black soldiers have White girlfriends and vice-versa. When soldiers are stationed overseas, many of them bring back foreign brides.

Of course, we all know that the military was integrated before the country was.

I support the military. But I don’t support war.

The “real” Americans who think that the military is preserving their “way of life” better think again.

[Author]

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