OT: Countdown: Three Weeks to Chaos

[KSMountain]

I read the Ehrenreich link – I actually don’t agree and further don’t think it’s useful for predicting the future of the U.S.

Merely thinking positive thoughts may not be sufficient, but it is more likely to lead to good results than rampant negativity.

Think about when the U.S. went down to build the Panama Canal after the French gave up. Someone with the attitude “this obviously can’t be done, it’s too hard, and ‘bad things could happen'” isn’t going to get the job done. They’ve failed before they even started.

Certainly it was a very daunting task, and yet once we set our mind to it, applied technology (and competition), things started proceeding very rapidly.

During WWII, Eisenhower said (paraphrasing) “I do more for the war effort by just walking around with a smile and saying things are going well than almost anything else I could do”. Seems to have worked out pretty well for him.

Think about CEO’s of companies. The good ones are relentlessly optimistic, even when it is patently obvious things are bad. It can actually be annoying. But they have to do that. Think of the impact on the morale of their company (and the then resultant outcome) if they acted the other way.

There’s an old saying that if you bet against America you will lose. Now perhaps the doom and gloomers are right and the “proverb”, while correct so many times in the past, no longer applies (and never will again). For some reason “it’s different this time”. Yeah. Good luck with that bet.

[SD Realtor]

KS and Arraya I kind of fall into the middle of the argument. Personally I am super critical of our country and very pessimistic. Yet I do feel our country possesses a quality not found in other nations around the world.

Arraya even yourself and partypup are guilty of optimistic thinking. You guys do a fantastic job putting up post after post filled with links and hard data about how f-cked we are and how broke we are and how the country will crash and burn.

Then in the same breathe you guys seem to imply that after we are gone as world leaders there will be this nebulus collection of countries that will lead the world and provide the aide we have given and act in this humanitarian manner. Suddenly there are no more hard data links from you guys on who will take the reins. There is just this, we will all be better off for the new era we are in but there is nothing concrete about it.

How do you know we will all be better off. Personally I think we all may be very worse off, so don’t you think you guys are kind of “optimistically thinking”.

China which at least to me will clearly be the economic leader of the next era has pretty horrible human rights, and can pretty much control north korea if they want. Last I checked the population in North Korea wasn’t living under the greatest conditions. How much foreign aid does India or Brazil give to starving kids in Africa?

I mean really… yes our country is f-cked and greed has brought it down to a level that it simply may not EVER be what it was. For all of our imperialism, unjust wars, greed for oil, all the stuff you point out over and over and over again, I still maintain that the world will NOT be better without us at the helm. There are some good qualities about us that have been painted over by that greed and it is sad and maybe someday it will come back. I don’t know man…

Anyways none of you guys have bothered to try to answer my question about who will take the helm except for you Arraya, but the answer “they have been having secret meetings for years” doesnt really wash with me.

The way I see a rising tide floats all boats, but the tide going out will sink most of the ships except the sturdiest ones. So to me as the world continues to deteriorate life will not only get WORSE for the have nots and the middle class, but the disparity between the few and the many will GROW not shrink. Yes it has grown in our prosperous era but I think that it will even grow faster with a different nation or your collective nations idea. I would consider that to be WAY overly optimistic on your part. In my opinion nations like China and others will go, “why us? why anyone?, as long as we are leading why do we have to do anything?”

My hope is for us to somehow navigate out of this mess but I don’t see it with the choice our govt has made in the past. As our spending increases admittedly I think things are pretty bleak.

[SD Realtor]

KS and Arraya I kind of fall into the middle of the argument. Personally I am super critical of our country and very pessimistic. Yet I do feel our country possesses a quality not found in other nations around the world.

Arraya even yourself and partypup are guilty of optimistic thinking. You guys do a fantastic job putting up post after post filled with links and hard data about how f-cked we are and how broke we are and how the country will crash and burn.

Then in the same breathe you guys seem to imply that after we are gone as world leaders there will be this nebulus collection of countries that will lead the world and provide the aide we have given and act in this humanitarian manner. Suddenly there are no more hard data links from you guys on who will take the reins. There is just this, we will all be better off for the new era we are in but there is nothing concrete about it.

How do you know we will all be better off. Personally I think we all may be very worse off, so don’t you think you guys are kind of “optimistically thinking”.

China which at least to me will clearly be the economic leader of the next era has pretty horrible human rights, and can pretty much control north korea if they want. Last I checked the population in North Korea wasn’t living under the greatest conditions. How much foreign aid does India or Brazil give to starving kids in Africa?

I mean really… yes our country is f-cked and greed has brought it down to a level that it simply may not EVER be what it was. For all of our imperialism, unjust wars, greed for oil, all the stuff you point out over and over and over again, I still maintain that the world will NOT be better without us at the helm. There are some good qualities about us that have been painted over by that greed and it is sad and maybe someday it will come back. I don’t know man…

Anyways none of you guys have bothered to try to answer my question about who will take the helm except for you Arraya, but the answer “they have been having secret meetings for years” doesnt really wash with me.

The way I see a rising tide floats all boats, but the tide going out will sink most of the ships except the sturdiest ones. So to me as the world continues to deteriorate life will not only get WORSE for the have nots and the middle class, but the disparity between the few and the many will GROW not shrink. Yes it has grown in our prosperous era but I think that it will even grow faster with a different nation or your collective nations idea. I would consider that to be WAY overly optimistic on your part. In my opinion nations like China and others will go, “why us? why anyone?, as long as we are leading why do we have to do anything?”

My hope is for us to somehow navigate out of this mess but I don’t see it with the choice our govt has made in the past. As our spending increases admittedly I think things are pretty bleak.

[SD Realtor]

KS and Arraya I kind of fall into the middle of the argument. Personally I am super critical of our country and very pessimistic. Yet I do feel our country possesses a quality not found in other nations around the world.

Arraya even yourself and partypup are guilty of optimistic thinking. You guys do a fantastic job putting up post after post filled with links and hard data about how f-cked we are and how broke we are and how the country will crash and burn.

Then in the same breathe you guys seem to imply that after we are gone as world leaders there will be this nebulus collection of countries that will lead the world and provide the aide we have given and act in this humanitarian manner. Suddenly there are no more hard data links from you guys on who will take the reins. There is just this, we will all be better off for the new era we are in but there is nothing concrete about it.

How do you know we will all be better off. Personally I think we all may be very worse off, so don’t you think you guys are kind of “optimistically thinking”.

China which at least to me will clearly be the economic leader of the next era has pretty horrible human rights, and can pretty much control north korea if they want. Last I checked the population in North Korea wasn’t living under the greatest conditions. How much foreign aid does India or Brazil give to starving kids in Africa?

I mean really… yes our country is f-cked and greed has brought it down to a level that it simply may not EVER be what it was. For all of our imperialism, unjust wars, greed for oil, all the stuff you point out over and over and over again, I still maintain that the world will NOT be better without us at the helm. There are some good qualities about us that have been painted over by that greed and it is sad and maybe someday it will come back. I don’t know man…

Anyways none of you guys have bothered to try to answer my question about who will take the helm except for you Arraya, but the answer “they have been having secret meetings for years” doesnt really wash with me.

The way I see a rising tide floats all boats, but the tide going out will sink most of the ships except the sturdiest ones. So to me as the world continues to deteriorate life will not only get WORSE for the have nots and the middle class, but the disparity between the few and the many will GROW not shrink. Yes it has grown in our prosperous era but I think that it will even grow faster with a different nation or your collective nations idea. I would consider that to be WAY overly optimistic on your part. In my opinion nations like China and others will go, “why us? why anyone?, as long as we are leading why do we have to do anything?”

My hope is for us to somehow navigate out of this mess but I don’t see it with the choice our govt has made in the past. As our spending increases admittedly I think things are pretty bleak.

[SD Realtor]

KS and Arraya I kind of fall into the middle of the argument. Personally I am super critical of our country and very pessimistic. Yet I do feel our country possesses a quality not found in other nations around the world.

Arraya even yourself and partypup are guilty of optimistic thinking. You guys do a fantastic job putting up post after post filled with links and hard data about how f-cked we are and how broke we are and how the country will crash and burn.

Then in the same breathe you guys seem to imply that after we are gone as world leaders there will be this nebulus collection of countries that will lead the world and provide the aide we have given and act in this humanitarian manner. Suddenly there are no more hard data links from you guys on who will take the reins. There is just this, we will all be better off for the new era we are in but there is nothing concrete about it.

How do you know we will all be better off. Personally I think we all may be very worse off, so don’t you think you guys are kind of “optimistically thinking”.

China which at least to me will clearly be the economic leader of the next era has pretty horrible human rights, and can pretty much control north korea if they want. Last I checked the population in North Korea wasn’t living under the greatest conditions. How much foreign aid does India or Brazil give to starving kids in Africa?

I mean really… yes our country is f-cked and greed has brought it down to a level that it simply may not EVER be what it was. For all of our imperialism, unjust wars, greed for oil, all the stuff you point out over and over and over again, I still maintain that the world will NOT be better without us at the helm. There are some good qualities about us that have been painted over by that greed and it is sad and maybe someday it will come back. I don’t know man…

Anyways none of you guys have bothered to try to answer my question about who will take the helm except for you Arraya, but the answer “they have been having secret meetings for years” doesnt really wash with me.

The way I see a rising tide floats all boats, but the tide going out will sink most of the ships except the sturdiest ones. So to me as the world continues to deteriorate life will not only get WORSE for the have nots and the middle class, but the disparity between the few and the many will GROW not shrink. Yes it has grown in our prosperous era but I think that it will even grow faster with a different nation or your collective nations idea. I would consider that to be WAY overly optimistic on your part. In my opinion nations like China and others will go, “why us? why anyone?, as long as we are leading why do we have to do anything?”

My hope is for us to somehow navigate out of this mess but I don’t see it with the choice our govt has made in the past. As our spending increases admittedly I think things are pretty bleak.

[SD Realtor]

KS and Arraya I kind of fall into the middle of the argument. Personally I am super critical of our country and very pessimistic. Yet I do feel our country possesses a quality not found in other nations around the world.

Arraya even yourself and partypup are guilty of optimistic thinking. You guys do a fantastic job putting up post after post filled with links and hard data about how f-cked we are and how broke we are and how the country will crash and burn.

Then in the same breathe you guys seem to imply that after we are gone as world leaders there will be this nebulus collection of countries that will lead the world and provide the aide we have given and act in this humanitarian manner. Suddenly there are no more hard data links from you guys on who will take the reins. There is just this, we will all be better off for the new era we are in but there is nothing concrete about it.

How do you know we will all be better off. Personally I think we all may be very worse off, so don’t you think you guys are kind of “optimistically thinking”.

China which at least to me will clearly be the economic leader of the next era has pretty horrible human rights, and can pretty much control north korea if they want. Last I checked the population in North Korea wasn’t living under the greatest conditions. How much foreign aid does India or Brazil give to starving kids in Africa?

I mean really… yes our country is f-cked and greed has brought it down to a level that it simply may not EVER be what it was. For all of our imperialism, unjust wars, greed for oil, all the stuff you point out over and over and over again, I still maintain that the world will NOT be better without us at the helm. There are some good qualities about us that have been painted over by that greed and it is sad and maybe someday it will come back. I don’t know man…

Anyways none of you guys have bothered to try to answer my question about who will take the helm except for you Arraya, but the answer “they have been having secret meetings for years” doesnt really wash with me.

The way I see a rising tide floats all boats, but the tide going out will sink most of the ships except the sturdiest ones. So to me as the world continues to deteriorate life will not only get WORSE for the have nots and the middle class, but the disparity between the few and the many will GROW not shrink. Yes it has grown in our prosperous era but I think that it will even grow faster with a different nation or your collective nations idea. I would consider that to be WAY overly optimistic on your part. In my opinion nations like China and others will go, “why us? why anyone?, as long as we are leading why do we have to do anything?”

My hope is for us to somehow navigate out of this mess but I don’t see it with the choice our govt has made in the past. As our spending increases admittedly I think things are pretty bleak.

[moneymaker]

Didn’t have time to read the whole thread,super long. This event has been building for quite some time. The irony is that the rich people started it by moving jobs out of this country to increase profits and they will have to be the ones to save the country too by believing “we can”. In the past this was done by appealing to national loyalty,don’t think that will work this time. The first nail was exporting jobs,the 2 nd nail was spending 10 Billion a month on an unnecessary war with no real mission or objective(I personally thought it was to get the oil,guess I was wrong), the 3 rd and final nail was the real estate bubble bust. Think about it how many people that you know actually add to the GDP through their job,that pretty much eliminates any service sector or government job.Buying and selling stocks doesn’t add to GDP,neither does buying gold/silver. I’m just going to focus on my microeconomics.

[moneymaker]

Didn’t have time to read the whole thread,super long. This event has been building for quite some time. The irony is that the rich people started it by moving jobs out of this country to increase profits and they will have to be the ones to save the country too by believing “we can”. In the past this was done by appealing to national loyalty,don’t think that will work this time. The first nail was exporting jobs,the 2 nd nail was spending 10 Billion a month on an unnecessary war with no real mission or objective(I personally thought it was to get the oil,guess I was wrong), the 3 rd and final nail was the real estate bubble bust. Think about it how many people that you know actually add to the GDP through their job,that pretty much eliminates any service sector or government job.Buying and selling stocks doesn’t add to GDP,neither does buying gold/silver. I’m just going to focus on my microeconomics.

[moneymaker]

Didn’t have time to read the whole thread,super long. This event has been building for quite some time. The irony is that the rich people started it by moving jobs out of this country to increase profits and they will have to be the ones to save the country too by believing “we can”. In the past this was done by appealing to national loyalty,don’t think that will work this time. The first nail was exporting jobs,the 2 nd nail was spending 10 Billion a month on an unnecessary war with no real mission or objective(I personally thought it was to get the oil,guess I was wrong), the 3 rd and final nail was the real estate bubble bust. Think about it how many people that you know actually add to the GDP through their job,that pretty much eliminates any service sector or government job.Buying and selling stocks doesn’t add to GDP,neither does buying gold/silver. I’m just going to focus on my microeconomics.

[moneymaker]

Didn’t have time to read the whole thread,super long. This event has been building for quite some time. The irony is that the rich people started it by moving jobs out of this country to increase profits and they will have to be the ones to save the country too by believing “we can”. In the past this was done by appealing to national loyalty,don’t think that will work this time. The first nail was exporting jobs,the 2 nd nail was spending 10 Billion a month on an unnecessary war with no real mission or objective(I personally thought it was to get the oil,guess I was wrong), the 3 rd and final nail was the real estate bubble bust. Think about it how many people that you know actually add to the GDP through their job,that pretty much eliminates any service sector or government job.Buying and selling stocks doesn’t add to GDP,neither does buying gold/silver. I’m just going to focus on my microeconomics.

[moneymaker]

Didn’t have time to read the whole thread,super long. This event has been building for quite some time. The irony is that the rich people started it by moving jobs out of this country to increase profits and they will have to be the ones to save the country too by believing “we can”. In the past this was done by appealing to national loyalty,don’t think that will work this time. The first nail was exporting jobs,the 2 nd nail was spending 10 Billion a month on an unnecessary war with no real mission or objective(I personally thought it was to get the oil,guess I was wrong), the 3 rd and final nail was the real estate bubble bust. Think about it how many people that you know actually add to the GDP through their job,that pretty much eliminates any service sector or government job.Buying and selling stocks doesn’t add to GDP,neither does buying gold/silver. I’m just going to focus on my microeconomics.

[Arraya]

SDR-I don’t know. I can speculate but that is about it.

The bottom line is the US is going to essentially default, though it will never be called that.

Were deflating because money and credit are being destroyed much faster than they are created. It’s a net contraction of the supply of money. What they are doing to battle deflation is piling a bunch of public debt to offset the credit contraction. Since the real economy is deflating and tax receipts are plummeting we are being pushed to a point of a crisis of confidence in our currency via a federal government funding issue which will bring hyper-inflation (loss of confidence in currency). We are going to skip write past inflation and go super nova.

The world seems to be getting ready for this event by preparing to stop using the dollar as reserve currency, for their own protection, which brings a whole host of other problems not associated with any “flation”. The military is funded by petro-dollars. We are truly headed towards a soviet union style collapse.

[Arraya]

SDR-I don’t know. I can speculate but that is about it.

The bottom line is the US is going to essentially default, though it will never be called that.

Were deflating because money and credit are being destroyed much faster than they are created. It’s a net contraction of the supply of money. What they are doing to battle deflation is piling a bunch of public debt to offset the credit contraction. Since the real economy is deflating and tax receipts are plummeting we are being pushed to a point of a crisis of confidence in our currency via a federal government funding issue which will bring hyper-inflation (loss of confidence in currency). We are going to skip write past inflation and go super nova.

The world seems to be getting ready for this event by preparing to stop using the dollar as reserve currency, for their own protection, which brings a whole host of other problems not associated with any “flation”. The military is funded by petro-dollars. We are truly headed towards a soviet union style collapse.

[Arraya]

SDR-I don’t know. I can speculate but that is about it.

The bottom line is the US is going to essentially default, though it will never be called that.

Were deflating because money and credit are being destroyed much faster than they are created. It’s a net contraction of the supply of money. What they are doing to battle deflation is piling a bunch of public debt to offset the credit contraction. Since the real economy is deflating and tax receipts are plummeting we are being pushed to a point of a crisis of confidence in our currency via a federal government funding issue which will bring hyper-inflation (loss of confidence in currency). We are going to skip write past inflation and go super nova.

The world seems to be getting ready for this event by preparing to stop using the dollar as reserve currency, for their own protection, which brings a whole host of other problems not associated with any “flation”. The military is funded by petro-dollars. We are truly headed towards a soviet union style collapse.

[Arraya]

SDR-I don’t know. I can speculate but that is about it.

The bottom line is the US is going to essentially default, though it will never be called that.

Were deflating because money and credit are being destroyed much faster than they are created. It’s a net contraction of the supply of money. What they are doing to battle deflation is piling a bunch of public debt to offset the credit contraction. Since the real economy is deflating and tax receipts are plummeting we are being pushed to a point of a crisis of confidence in our currency via a federal government funding issue which will bring hyper-inflation (loss of confidence in currency). We are going to skip write past inflation and go super nova.

The world seems to be getting ready for this event by preparing to stop using the dollar as reserve currency, for their own protection, which brings a whole host of other problems not associated with any “flation”. The military is funded by petro-dollars. We are truly headed towards a soviet union style collapse.

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