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CA renter.
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January 16, 2012 at 10:42 AM #735986January 16, 2012 at 10:43 AM #735985
CoronitaParticipantAnother question:
If a new Chargers stadium ends up being built with public money, does that effectively mean the Chargers become public employees? Would they have good pensions along with great salaries?
January 16, 2012 at 10:43 AM #735987urbanrealtor
Participant[quote=flu]Another question:
If a new Chargers stadium ends up being built with public money, does that effectively mean the Chargers become public employees? Would they have good pensions?[/quote]
On that line, what do people think about the fact that the Packers are public employees?
January 16, 2012 at 10:45 AM #735988ParticipantHitler was a public employee.
See that?
I just blew a Godwin load all over your face!!!!
What now bitches???!!!
January 16, 2012 at 10:48 AM #735989CoronitaParticipant[quote=urbanrealtor][quote=flu]Another question:
If a new Chargers stadium ends up being built with public money, does that effectively mean the Chargers become public employees? Would they have good pensions?[/quote]
On that line, what do people think about the fact that the Packers are public employees?[/quote]
At least they’ve won the superbowl enough times.
ROI is there.Chargers? Not so much…
January 16, 2012 at 10:52 AM #735991Anonymous
Guest[quote=urbanrealtor]Hitler was a public employee.
See that?
I just blew a Godwin load all over your face!!!!
What now bitches???!!![/quote]
That was funny.
Kinda gross, but funny.
January 16, 2012 at 10:58 AM #735992OwnerOfCalifornia
Participant[quote=urbanrealtor]A bigger question is what would Brian Boytano do?[/quote]
He would blame Canada.
January 16, 2012 at 10:59 AM #735993bearishgurl
Participant[quote=AN] . . . An average of pension at $28k/year comes out to $800k-$1M over 30-40 years of receiving such benefits. A $100k/year pension comes out to $3M-$4M over 30-40 years. . . . [/quote]
AN, TG was talking about SDCERA. As I posted earlier on this thread, this “avg $28K annually” pension was predicated on the employee being in “Tier A.” Only about 10-15% percent of employees in “Tier A” have actually retired (10-15% of approx 17K employees = 1700 – 2550 employees). SRT to non-safety workers, the average pension for employees who retired under Tier I is about $1150 mo and the average pension for those (few) who retired until Tier II is about $850 mo (most workers under “Tier II” elected to change their tier to “Tier A” in March of 2002 and take much higher payroll deductions for retirement). Even though eligible to retire at 55, the vast majority of SDCERA workers retire at age 60-62, because the age-55 pension is only a portion of the full pension, unless the worker already has 30 years service in by age 55 (with no interruptions such as FML and LWOP).
I personally don’t see where these workers are collecting pensions for “30-40 years.” Very, very often, public workers retire a little earlier than they want to due to health reasons. I personally have been to a few funerals of both active and retired SDCERA members. The stress of many of these jobs (due to relentless demand by the public) causes many these workers to stop taking care of themselves as soon as they reach a level where they are responsible for other workers. What I SEE is a lot of early disability and a fair amount of early deaths.
As to “Tier A” employees (whose “avg pension” will be $28K annually), the jury is still out on them. I use a multitude of county offices and courts weekly and from what I can see, for the most part, this group does not take care of themselves from an even earlier age. Obesity is rampant among this mostly Gen X/Y group which was not nearly so omnipresent in my group (boomers).
I don’t see the average public worker (ESP safety and CALTRANS) living beyond their seventies and even that is a stretch to me. What I have seen is that many workers are actually too disabled to work the last 1-3 years of their public “career” but endeavor to keep their positions anyway … until they can’t.
Again, SDCERA workers are but a microcosm of all public workers in CA. I myself am a SDCERA “deferred retiree.”
January 16, 2012 at 11:07 AM #735994ParticipantAnd since it ain’t posted yet. $292K
January 16, 2012 at 11:16 AM #735995an
Participant[quote=bearishgurl]I don’t see the average public worker (ESP safety and CALTRANS) living beyond their seventies and even that is a stretch to me.
Again, SDCERA workers are but a microcosm of all public workers in CA. I myself am a SDCERA “deferred retiree.”[/quote]
Data for life expectancy: http://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&met_y=sp_dyn_le00_in&idim=country:USA&dl=en&hl=en&q=average+life+expectancyAverage right now is 78. So, assuming average public employees have similar expectancy to average American, then I would say you made a valid statement that the average won’t make it past their 70s. A good portion will make it into their 80s, though <50%. See that trend line? It's going higher.
Are these average pension numbers public information?
January 16, 2012 at 11:39 AM #736000Participant[quote=AN][quote=bearishgurl]I don’t see the average public worker (ESP safety and CALTRANS) living beyond their seventies and even that is a stretch to me.
Again, SDCERA workers are but a microcosm of all public workers in CA. I myself am a SDCERA “deferred retiree.”[/quote]
Data for life expectancy: http://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&met_y=sp_dyn_le00_in&idim=country:USA&dl=en&hl=en&q=average+life+expectancyAverage right now is 78. So, assuming average public employees have similar expectancy to average American, then I would say you made a valid statement that the average won’t make it past their 70s. A good portion will make it into their 80s, though <50%. See that trend line? It's going higher.
Are these average pension numbers public information?[/quote]
I haven't seen SDCERA actuarial tables but know the ages of death are lower for safety members. Anecdotally, I don't believe public workers live as long as private workers and those who never worked, due to a multitude of factors.
What I've SEEN are workers who died IN SERVICE and thus their families were only able to collect the "worker contribution" portion of their retirement accounts (IF the deceased employee actually contributed to them). I've seen workers die months to perhaps 10 years after retiring. These were workers who were NOT in "Tier A" and thus had smallish pensions with very small (if any) worker contributions in them. Why, you may ask?? Public workers often work themselves to death ... or attempt to work during chemotherapy and return to work as soon as medically released after open-heart surgery, etc.
The public hoopla over enormous pensions is over executives and safety workers with ridiculous OT but these pensions are NOT anywhere near the norm. The non-safety "worker-bee" public worker who often serves the public outnumbers the executive worker (with a fat personally-negotiated pension deal) by at least 300 to 1. Even within safety organizations, there are hundreds of lower-paid non-sworn staff doing "grunt work."
The vast majority of non-safety "middle-manager" positions were all but eliminated in the county by 2002, using a "two-year service credit" carrot.
January 16, 2012 at 11:57 AM #736003ParticipantAs to broker/agent commissons, I’m with the Piggs who stated it’s a free country. If you are a potential seller, sell FSBO! Go ahead and allow all manner of lowlifes and casers to traipse thru your property during nights and weekends (when you need to relax). If you follow them around too close, and they are “legitimate, qualified buyers,” you could easily make them uncomfortable and want to leave.
And make sure you “stage” your property properly and keep all your pets secured for as long as it takes to sell it.
No lockbox? Without a lockbox, your property will not be easy to show. Potential buyers will just flock to properties they can see NOW.
If you are able to “qualify” potential buyers first (at your kitchen table??), go ahead and call the lender they presumably applied with for a mortgage (to verify their qualifications) and see how far you get. Willing to carry paper? Try to run their credit report yourself!
Need forms? Go buy a forms kit. Don’t know how to fill them out or where to start (or which ones to use)? Too bad, so sad …. wing it!!
Uh oh . . . forgot disclosures (or don’t know which ones to use for your particular property)?? This is NOT GOOD! Better keep an (expensive) attorney chained to your ankle. Do not pass Go and do not collect $200.
And the above is all assuming you, as a seller, are NOT currently “underwater.” It’s a “minefield” out there, Piggs. I could go on …. LOL :=]
January 16, 2012 at 11:59 AM #736004Participant[quote=bearishgurl]Public workers often work themselves to death … or attempt to work during chemotherapy and return to work as soon as medically released after open-heart surgery, etc.[/quote]
Got proof? Data please. I can provide anecdotal stories to offset your anecdotal stories. Workaholics are everywhere. Some people are just crazy, but that doesn’t prove anything other than there are some crazy workaholics.January 16, 2012 at 12:19 PM #736005Guest[quote]Public workers often work themselves to death […][/quote]
Melodramatic, but true.
But why not tell the whole truth:
“All classes of workers often work themselves to death.”
Or do you actually believe the hardships of ordinary life never happen to the 90% of the workforce that aren’t in the public sector?
January 16, 2012 at 2:21 PM #736016Participant[quote=pri_dk][quote]Public workers often work themselves to death […][/quote]
Melodramatic, but true.
But why not tell the whole truth:
“All classes of workers often work themselves to death.”
Or do you actually believe the hardships of ordinary life never happen to the 90% of the workforce that aren’t in the public sector?[/quote]
Agreed, but it would stand to reason that for a worker who works for an employer without a “defined benefit plan,” that there isn’t as much incentive to stay on the payroll (even if they hate the job or organization or are technically “sick”) in order to vest, reach a certain age to collect a pension or qualify for Medicare (since many public employers’ retirement systems do not fully subsidize health care benefits). If an employee is sick, or was sick in the last ten years or so, it would be folly for them to give up their health benefits and go on COBRA (since an individual plan for them would no doubt be very cost-prohibitive). This huge healthcare issue applies to ALL workers (government and private sector).
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