OT – Alcoholism and Addiction

[ocrenter]

all very good and well thought-out comments. we are ultimately back at nature vs nurture. of course, the debate will never end because this is a multi-factorial problem, meaning we simply will not have a single solution for every alcoholics out there.

brian, get your friend to a psychiatrist specializing in chemical dependency. how to get him there will of course be the toughest part.

here’s a good read on the subject:

http://courses.missouristate.edu/ChrisBarnhart/bio121/readings/drunk_monkeys/drunk_monkeys_files/featdrunk.htm

[bearishgurl]

[quote=Rustico]Yes he has a bias,but he hasn’t been wrong over and over and over.[/quote]

The Native American addiction problem is REAL, Rustico. The billboards, radio advertising and rehab center’s websites in these affected areas are directing the bulk of their attention to this population, which is only about 20-30% of the population in that region.

The anti-addiction advertising is NOT primarily directed to non-Native American Caucasians (incl Hispanics) and Blacks or to Asians. It is directed primarily to the registered Native American population and their tribal leadership councils.

The record bears out the adverse affects of various addictions (including greatly shortened lifespans) on the Native American population. Whatever spews out of Peele’s mouth can’t take this phenomenon away. It is what it is and needs to be dealt with.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=Rustico]Yes he has a bias,but he hasn’t been wrong over and over and over.[/quote]

The Native American addiction problem is REAL, Rustico. The billboards, radio advertising and rehab center’s websites in these affected areas are directing the bulk of their attention to this population, which is only about 20-30% of the population in that region.

The anti-addiction advertising is NOT primarily directed to non-Native American Caucasians (incl Hispanics) and Blacks or to Asians. It is directed primarily to the registered Native American population and their tribal leadership councils.

The record bears out the adverse affects of various addictions (including greatly shortened lifespans) on the Native American population. Whatever spews out of Peele’s mouth can’t take this phenomenon away. It is what it is and needs to be dealt with.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=Rustico]Yes he has a bias,but he hasn’t been wrong over and over and over.[/quote]

The Native American addiction problem is REAL, Rustico. The billboards, radio advertising and rehab center’s websites in these affected areas are directing the bulk of their attention to this population, which is only about 20-30% of the population in that region.

The anti-addiction advertising is NOT primarily directed to non-Native American Caucasians (incl Hispanics) and Blacks or to Asians. It is directed primarily to the registered Native American population and their tribal leadership councils.

The record bears out the adverse affects of various addictions (including greatly shortened lifespans) on the Native American population. Whatever spews out of Peele’s mouth can’t take this phenomenon away. It is what it is and needs to be dealt with.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=Rustico]Yes he has a bias,but he hasn’t been wrong over and over and over.[/quote]

The Native American addiction problem is REAL, Rustico. The billboards, radio advertising and rehab center’s websites in these affected areas are directing the bulk of their attention to this population, which is only about 20-30% of the population in that region.

The anti-addiction advertising is NOT primarily directed to non-Native American Caucasians (incl Hispanics) and Blacks or to Asians. It is directed primarily to the registered Native American population and their tribal leadership councils.

The record bears out the adverse affects of various addictions (including greatly shortened lifespans) on the Native American population. Whatever spews out of Peele’s mouth can’t take this phenomenon away. It is what it is and needs to be dealt with.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=Rustico]Yes he has a bias,but he hasn’t been wrong over and over and over.[/quote]

The Native American addiction problem is REAL, Rustico. The billboards, radio advertising and rehab center’s websites in these affected areas are directing the bulk of their attention to this population, which is only about 20-30% of the population in that region.

The anti-addiction advertising is NOT primarily directed to non-Native American Caucasians (incl Hispanics) and Blacks or to Asians. It is directed primarily to the registered Native American population and their tribal leadership councils.

The record bears out the adverse affects of various addictions (including greatly shortened lifespans) on the Native American population. Whatever spews out of Peele’s mouth can’t take this phenomenon away. It is what it is and needs to be dealt with.

[NotCranky]

Excuse me BG, I meant to be helpful, not expose you to any spew.

[NotCranky]

Excuse me BG, I meant to be helpful, not expose you to any spew.

[NotCranky]

Excuse me BG, I meant to be helpful, not expose you to any spew.

[NotCranky]

Excuse me BG, I meant to be helpful, not expose you to any spew.

[NotCranky]

Excuse me BG, I meant to be helpful, not expose you to any spew.

[NotCranky]

[quote=Rustico][quote=zk][quote=Rustico]O.K. ZK,

Here is my link, http://www.peele.net/faq/p3waves.html

You can read for days if you put “genetics” into the site search feature.

A lot of the points made on this thread are developed in the various archived articles.[/quote]

Basically your whole argument is this one link to this one nut’s website? Very disappointing. Here’s a guy who’s obviously got a serious bias and who will twist anything around to fit his views and sell his books.

From his website:

———————————————-
The core beliefs that the alcoholism movement has successfully promulgated are:

Alcoholics don’t drink too much because they intend to, but only because they can’t control their drinking.
Alcoholics inherit their alcoholism and thus are born as alcoholics.
Alcoholism always grow worse without treatment, so that alcoholics can never cut back or quit on their own.
Alcoholism as a disease can strike any individual—it is an “equal-opportunity destroyer”—and respects no social, religious, ethnic or sexual bounds.
Treatment based on AA principles is the only effective treatment for alcoholism—in the words of one proponent, a modern medical “miracle”—without which no one can hope to arrest a drinking problem.
Those who reject the AA approach for their drinking problems, or observers who contradict any of the contentions about alcoholism listed here, are practicing a special denial that means death for alcoholics.
—————————————–

His contention, which shows up throughout his writing, is that the “alcoholism movement,” whatever that is, says that alcoholism is completely determined by genetics, and that from the moment an alcoholic is born, he is fated to become an alcoholic. And he sets up that straw man and knocks it down. Pathetic.

I typed “genetics” in the site’s search engine. I could read for days, but it’s all written by the same biased person. The same Mr. Peele. Mr. Peele, who is trying (with some success, apparently) to sell books.

Reading that clown’s website and coming to any conclusion at all about alcoholism is like watching Fox “News” and coming to a conclusion about republicans or democrats.

Really, Rustico, move beyond Mr. Peele’s book selling malarkey, read some serious research, think for yourself, look closely to see if you don’t share nutjob’s biases, and see if you can’t get a fresh perspective on the issue.[/quote]
Yes he has a bias,but he hasn’t been wrong over and over and over.[/quote]
I call your issue with him “disagreeing”,No need to call names or character assassinate.

His book, “The Truth about Addiction and Recovery” supported my “bias” after many years of reading, and considering my family, myself, and other people and experiences. I read and look at his content as an extensive catalog of myth busters and some history on this topic.I am grateful someone, however “nutcase”, tries to keep the brakes on misconceptions of all kinds in the addiction field, which you well know are rampant. I think it is helpful to a lot of people and that could be part of why his books sells.

Get back off the attacks and defend your point of view. Will the genetic studies you hold dear stand the test of time or are they gaining strength, like so many false conclusion before them by being, in vogue? “Poly genetic multi- factorial” sounds great but it isn’t a done deal where problem drinking is concerned. Multi-factorial certainly. Look at your own bias. Or better yet, share the roots of it with us. Your attacks and insults and your ability to read the links you posted, have lost you some credibility and raised some suspicions regarding your own biases.

[NotCranky]

[quote=Rustico][quote=zk][quote=Rustico]O.K. ZK,

Here is my link, http://www.peele.net/faq/p3waves.html

You can read for days if you put “genetics” into the site search feature.

A lot of the points made on this thread are developed in the various archived articles.[/quote]

Basically your whole argument is this one link to this one nut’s website? Very disappointing. Here’s a guy who’s obviously got a serious bias and who will twist anything around to fit his views and sell his books.

From his website:

———————————————-
The core beliefs that the alcoholism movement has successfully promulgated are:

Alcoholics don’t drink too much because they intend to, but only because they can’t control their drinking.
Alcoholics inherit their alcoholism and thus are born as alcoholics.
Alcoholism always grow worse without treatment, so that alcoholics can never cut back or quit on their own.
Alcoholism as a disease can strike any individual—it is an “equal-opportunity destroyer”—and respects no social, religious, ethnic or sexual bounds.
Treatment based on AA principles is the only effective treatment for alcoholism—in the words of one proponent, a modern medical “miracle”—without which no one can hope to arrest a drinking problem.
Those who reject the AA approach for their drinking problems, or observers who contradict any of the contentions about alcoholism listed here, are practicing a special denial that means death for alcoholics.
—————————————–

His contention, which shows up throughout his writing, is that the “alcoholism movement,” whatever that is, says that alcoholism is completely determined by genetics, and that from the moment an alcoholic is born, he is fated to become an alcoholic. And he sets up that straw man and knocks it down. Pathetic.

I typed “genetics” in the site’s search engine. I could read for days, but it’s all written by the same biased person. The same Mr. Peele. Mr. Peele, who is trying (with some success, apparently) to sell books.

Reading that clown’s website and coming to any conclusion at all about alcoholism is like watching Fox “News” and coming to a conclusion about republicans or democrats.

Really, Rustico, move beyond Mr. Peele’s book selling malarkey, read some serious research, think for yourself, look closely to see if you don’t share nutjob’s biases, and see if you can’t get a fresh perspective on the issue.[/quote]
Yes he has a bias,but he hasn’t been wrong over and over and over.[/quote]
I call your issue with him “disagreeing”,No need to call names or character assassinate.

His book, “The Truth about Addiction and Recovery” supported my “bias” after many years of reading, and considering my family, myself, and other people and experiences. I read and look at his content as an extensive catalog of myth busters and some history on this topic.I am grateful someone, however “nutcase”, tries to keep the brakes on misconceptions of all kinds in the addiction field, which you well know are rampant. I think it is helpful to a lot of people and that could be part of why his books sells.

Get back off the attacks and defend your point of view. Will the genetic studies you hold dear stand the test of time or are they gaining strength, like so many false conclusion before them by being, in vogue? “Poly genetic multi- factorial” sounds great but it isn’t a done deal where problem drinking is concerned. Multi-factorial certainly. Look at your own bias. Or better yet, share the roots of it with us. Your attacks and insults and your ability to read the links you posted, have lost you some credibility and raised some suspicions regarding your own biases.

[NotCranky]

[quote=Rustico][quote=zk][quote=Rustico]O.K. ZK,

Here is my link, http://www.peele.net/faq/p3waves.html

You can read for days if you put “genetics” into the site search feature.

A lot of the points made on this thread are developed in the various archived articles.[/quote]

Basically your whole argument is this one link to this one nut’s website? Very disappointing. Here’s a guy who’s obviously got a serious bias and who will twist anything around to fit his views and sell his books.

From his website:

———————————————-
The core beliefs that the alcoholism movement has successfully promulgated are:

Alcoholics don’t drink too much because they intend to, but only because they can’t control their drinking.
Alcoholics inherit their alcoholism and thus are born as alcoholics.
Alcoholism always grow worse without treatment, so that alcoholics can never cut back or quit on their own.
Alcoholism as a disease can strike any individual—it is an “equal-opportunity destroyer”—and respects no social, religious, ethnic or sexual bounds.
Treatment based on AA principles is the only effective treatment for alcoholism—in the words of one proponent, a modern medical “miracle”—without which no one can hope to arrest a drinking problem.
Those who reject the AA approach for their drinking problems, or observers who contradict any of the contentions about alcoholism listed here, are practicing a special denial that means death for alcoholics.
—————————————–

His contention, which shows up throughout his writing, is that the “alcoholism movement,” whatever that is, says that alcoholism is completely determined by genetics, and that from the moment an alcoholic is born, he is fated to become an alcoholic. And he sets up that straw man and knocks it down. Pathetic.

I typed “genetics” in the site’s search engine. I could read for days, but it’s all written by the same biased person. The same Mr. Peele. Mr. Peele, who is trying (with some success, apparently) to sell books.

Reading that clown’s website and coming to any conclusion at all about alcoholism is like watching Fox “News” and coming to a conclusion about republicans or democrats.

Really, Rustico, move beyond Mr. Peele’s book selling malarkey, read some serious research, think for yourself, look closely to see if you don’t share nutjob’s biases, and see if you can’t get a fresh perspective on the issue.[/quote]
Yes he has a bias,but he hasn’t been wrong over and over and over.[/quote]
I call your issue with him “disagreeing”,No need to call names or character assassinate.

His book, “The Truth about Addiction and Recovery” supported my “bias” after many years of reading, and considering my family, myself, and other people and experiences. I read and look at his content as an extensive catalog of myth busters and some history on this topic.I am grateful someone, however “nutcase”, tries to keep the brakes on misconceptions of all kinds in the addiction field, which you well know are rampant. I think it is helpful to a lot of people and that could be part of why his books sells.

Get back off the attacks and defend your point of view. Will the genetic studies you hold dear stand the test of time or are they gaining strength, like so many false conclusion before them by being, in vogue? “Poly genetic multi- factorial” sounds great but it isn’t a done deal where problem drinking is concerned. Multi-factorial certainly. Look at your own bias. Or better yet, share the roots of it with us. Your attacks and insults and your ability to read the links you posted, have lost you some credibility and raised some suspicions regarding your own biases.

[NotCranky]

[quote=Rustico][quote=zk][quote=Rustico]O.K. ZK,

Here is my link, http://www.peele.net/faq/p3waves.html

You can read for days if you put “genetics” into the site search feature.

A lot of the points made on this thread are developed in the various archived articles.[/quote]

Basically your whole argument is this one link to this one nut’s website? Very disappointing. Here’s a guy who’s obviously got a serious bias and who will twist anything around to fit his views and sell his books.

From his website:

———————————————-
The core beliefs that the alcoholism movement has successfully promulgated are:

Alcoholics don’t drink too much because they intend to, but only because they can’t control their drinking.
Alcoholics inherit their alcoholism and thus are born as alcoholics.
Alcoholism always grow worse without treatment, so that alcoholics can never cut back or quit on their own.
Alcoholism as a disease can strike any individual—it is an “equal-opportunity destroyer”—and respects no social, religious, ethnic or sexual bounds.
Treatment based on AA principles is the only effective treatment for alcoholism—in the words of one proponent, a modern medical “miracle”—without which no one can hope to arrest a drinking problem.
Those who reject the AA approach for their drinking problems, or observers who contradict any of the contentions about alcoholism listed here, are practicing a special denial that means death for alcoholics.
—————————————–

His contention, which shows up throughout his writing, is that the “alcoholism movement,” whatever that is, says that alcoholism is completely determined by genetics, and that from the moment an alcoholic is born, he is fated to become an alcoholic. And he sets up that straw man and knocks it down. Pathetic.

I typed “genetics” in the site’s search engine. I could read for days, but it’s all written by the same biased person. The same Mr. Peele. Mr. Peele, who is trying (with some success, apparently) to sell books.

Reading that clown’s website and coming to any conclusion at all about alcoholism is like watching Fox “News” and coming to a conclusion about republicans or democrats.

Really, Rustico, move beyond Mr. Peele’s book selling malarkey, read some serious research, think for yourself, look closely to see if you don’t share nutjob’s biases, and see if you can’t get a fresh perspective on the issue.[/quote]
Yes he has a bias,but he hasn’t been wrong over and over and over.[/quote]
I call your issue with him “disagreeing”,No need to call names or character assassinate.

His book, “The Truth about Addiction and Recovery” supported my “bias” after many years of reading, and considering my family, myself, and other people and experiences. I read and look at his content as an extensive catalog of myth busters and some history on this topic.I am grateful someone, however “nutcase”, tries to keep the brakes on misconceptions of all kinds in the addiction field, which you well know are rampant. I think it is helpful to a lot of people and that could be part of why his books sells.

Get back off the attacks and defend your point of view. Will the genetic studies you hold dear stand the test of time or are they gaining strength, like so many false conclusion before them by being, in vogue? “Poly genetic multi- factorial” sounds great but it isn’t a done deal where problem drinking is concerned. Multi-factorial certainly. Look at your own bias. Or better yet, share the roots of it with us. Your attacks and insults and your ability to read the links you posted, have lost you some credibility and raised some suspicions regarding your own biases.

[Author]

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