OLBERMANN AND GARAFOLO: Playing the Racist Game

[Coronita]

[quote=afx114][quote=flu]afx114, yes but again the point is if AN or I were your friend, and said “Sup my xxxxx?” would that be ok with you?[/quote]

My friends have already come up with a way around this: “Sup my ninja?” (apologies in advance if I’ve offended any Asians with my remarks).

I personally haven’t heard anyone say ‘Hang the xxxxxx’ but my point was to illustrate the historical significance of the word. Words have history attached to them, and I think that it is easy to forget that history means different things to different people depending on their perspective. Just as history has different meaning for different people, so do words. And I think that it’s intellectually lazy not to consider others perspectives when it comes to both history and language.[/quote]

I’m not trying to pick on you. I’m really trying to understand this complex issue of race relations.

But back to your first point. Why should your friends have to cirmcuvent the word to begin with? Is it really the burden of white people to learn every nook and cranny about every culture and figure out what exactly is PC for one culture and what’s not PC for another culture without being called a racist the first time a white person misspeaks?

( And no, I don’t get offended at the ninja reference. When people “konichiwa” me…I simply suggest the way you can tell us apart:

*more than one syllable last name = japanese.
*single syllable last name = chinese or korean
*…last names with C,H,L(except Lee), X,Y,Z = chinese.
*…last name with A,S,K = korean
*…”Lee” is generic and could be chinese or korean

[afx114]

[quote=flu]For example, how is a white person suppose to know calling someone “oriental” is racist? If it happens, is that considered “threatening”?[/quote]

Through education. Of course no one can ever know every single cultural nuance and avoid offensive words completely. But at least make an effort to lower the percentage. If a white person calls someone ‘oriental’ and doesn’t know that it is racist, they should be educated of that fact. Once they are, if they continue to use the word in a derogatory manner, then it is no doubt considered “threatening.” Hell, I didn’t even know that it is racist — thanks for educating me! Not that I ever use ‘oriental’ to describe people anyway. But at least I know for sure not to use it if the desire had ever crept up.

In this case though, the onus also falls on the offended to educate. I’ll be the first to admit that both sides are at fault here. If the offended doesn’t make an effort to make it known that they are offended, how will the offender know otherwise?

I suppose you can argue “but I didn’t know that calling blacks monkeys was offensive.” Well now you do. Are you still going to use it?

[afx114]

[quote=flu]For example, how is a white person suppose to know calling someone “oriental” is racist? If it happens, is that considered “threatening”?[/quote]

Through education. Of course no one can ever know every single cultural nuance and avoid offensive words completely. But at least make an effort to lower the percentage. If a white person calls someone ‘oriental’ and doesn’t know that it is racist, they should be educated of that fact. Once they are, if they continue to use the word in a derogatory manner, then it is no doubt considered “threatening.” Hell, I didn’t even know that it is racist — thanks for educating me! Not that I ever use ‘oriental’ to describe people anyway. But at least I know for sure not to use it if the desire had ever crept up.

In this case though, the onus also falls on the offended to educate. I’ll be the first to admit that both sides are at fault here. If the offended doesn’t make an effort to make it known that they are offended, how will the offender know otherwise?

I suppose you can argue “but I didn’t know that calling blacks monkeys was offensive.” Well now you do. Are you still going to use it?

[afx114]

[quote=flu]For example, how is a white person suppose to know calling someone “oriental” is racist? If it happens, is that considered “threatening”?[/quote]

Through education. Of course no one can ever know every single cultural nuance and avoid offensive words completely. But at least make an effort to lower the percentage. If a white person calls someone ‘oriental’ and doesn’t know that it is racist, they should be educated of that fact. Once they are, if they continue to use the word in a derogatory manner, then it is no doubt considered “threatening.” Hell, I didn’t even know that it is racist — thanks for educating me! Not that I ever use ‘oriental’ to describe people anyway. But at least I know for sure not to use it if the desire had ever crept up.

In this case though, the onus also falls on the offended to educate. I’ll be the first to admit that both sides are at fault here. If the offended doesn’t make an effort to make it known that they are offended, how will the offender know otherwise?

I suppose you can argue “but I didn’t know that calling blacks monkeys was offensive.” Well now you do. Are you still going to use it?

[afx114]

[quote=flu]For example, how is a white person suppose to know calling someone “oriental” is racist? If it happens, is that considered “threatening”?[/quote]

Through education. Of course no one can ever know every single cultural nuance and avoid offensive words completely. But at least make an effort to lower the percentage. If a white person calls someone ‘oriental’ and doesn’t know that it is racist, they should be educated of that fact. Once they are, if they continue to use the word in a derogatory manner, then it is no doubt considered “threatening.” Hell, I didn’t even know that it is racist — thanks for educating me! Not that I ever use ‘oriental’ to describe people anyway. But at least I know for sure not to use it if the desire had ever crept up.

In this case though, the onus also falls on the offended to educate. I’ll be the first to admit that both sides are at fault here. If the offended doesn’t make an effort to make it known that they are offended, how will the offender know otherwise?

I suppose you can argue “but I didn’t know that calling blacks monkeys was offensive.” Well now you do. Are you still going to use it?

[afx114]

[quote=flu]For example, how is a white person suppose to know calling someone “oriental” is racist? If it happens, is that considered “threatening”?[/quote]

Through education. Of course no one can ever know every single cultural nuance and avoid offensive words completely. But at least make an effort to lower the percentage. If a white person calls someone ‘oriental’ and doesn’t know that it is racist, they should be educated of that fact. Once they are, if they continue to use the word in a derogatory manner, then it is no doubt considered “threatening.” Hell, I didn’t even know that it is racist — thanks for educating me! Not that I ever use ‘oriental’ to describe people anyway. But at least I know for sure not to use it if the desire had ever crept up.

In this case though, the onus also falls on the offended to educate. I’ll be the first to admit that both sides are at fault here. If the offended doesn’t make an effort to make it known that they are offended, how will the offender know otherwise?

I suppose you can argue “but I didn’t know that calling blacks monkeys was offensive.” Well now you do. Are you still going to use it?

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Dave: Cletus was after my time (I graduated HS in 1983). Jethro was especially popular because of “The Beverly Hillbillies” and the Jethro Bodine character.

You make a good point about being “culturalist” in our views. Everyone is tribal to a certain extent and I saw this when I was a kid. My family is German on both sides, with my dad’s family hailing from Northern Germany (Prussia) and my mom’s family largely coming from Austria. We were at a family picnic and I overheard my grandmother, who was a very cultured woman and university professor, refer to Austrians as “goat herding yokels”. Not only was this shocking, but the laughter from the surrounding family members (on my dad’s side) was a jolt, too. When I asked my dad about this (out of earshot of my mom), my dad rolled his eyes and said “Austrians” with a tone of complete contempt. Prussians consider themselves “true” Germans, with Southern Germans, Bavarians and Austrians being treated as second class citizens.

My grandmother had left Germany in 1935 because of what she saw coming with the Hitler regime and she used to rail constantly against the mistreatment of others and racial injustice. She also used to quote Schiller and Goethe to me. Go figure.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Dave: Cletus was after my time (I graduated HS in 1983). Jethro was especially popular because of “The Beverly Hillbillies” and the Jethro Bodine character.

You make a good point about being “culturalist” in our views. Everyone is tribal to a certain extent and I saw this when I was a kid. My family is German on both sides, with my dad’s family hailing from Northern Germany (Prussia) and my mom’s family largely coming from Austria. We were at a family picnic and I overheard my grandmother, who was a very cultured woman and university professor, refer to Austrians as “goat herding yokels”. Not only was this shocking, but the laughter from the surrounding family members (on my dad’s side) was a jolt, too. When I asked my dad about this (out of earshot of my mom), my dad rolled his eyes and said “Austrians” with a tone of complete contempt. Prussians consider themselves “true” Germans, with Southern Germans, Bavarians and Austrians being treated as second class citizens.

My grandmother had left Germany in 1935 because of what she saw coming with the Hitler regime and she used to rail constantly against the mistreatment of others and racial injustice. She also used to quote Schiller and Goethe to me. Go figure.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Dave: Cletus was after my time (I graduated HS in 1983). Jethro was especially popular because of “The Beverly Hillbillies” and the Jethro Bodine character.

You make a good point about being “culturalist” in our views. Everyone is tribal to a certain extent and I saw this when I was a kid. My family is German on both sides, with my dad’s family hailing from Northern Germany (Prussia) and my mom’s family largely coming from Austria. We were at a family picnic and I overheard my grandmother, who was a very cultured woman and university professor, refer to Austrians as “goat herding yokels”. Not only was this shocking, but the laughter from the surrounding family members (on my dad’s side) was a jolt, too. When I asked my dad about this (out of earshot of my mom), my dad rolled his eyes and said “Austrians” with a tone of complete contempt. Prussians consider themselves “true” Germans, with Southern Germans, Bavarians and Austrians being treated as second class citizens.

My grandmother had left Germany in 1935 because of what she saw coming with the Hitler regime and she used to rail constantly against the mistreatment of others and racial injustice. She also used to quote Schiller and Goethe to me. Go figure.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Dave: Cletus was after my time (I graduated HS in 1983). Jethro was especially popular because of “The Beverly Hillbillies” and the Jethro Bodine character.

You make a good point about being “culturalist” in our views. Everyone is tribal to a certain extent and I saw this when I was a kid. My family is German on both sides, with my dad’s family hailing from Northern Germany (Prussia) and my mom’s family largely coming from Austria. We were at a family picnic and I overheard my grandmother, who was a very cultured woman and university professor, refer to Austrians as “goat herding yokels”. Not only was this shocking, but the laughter from the surrounding family members (on my dad’s side) was a jolt, too. When I asked my dad about this (out of earshot of my mom), my dad rolled his eyes and said “Austrians” with a tone of complete contempt. Prussians consider themselves “true” Germans, with Southern Germans, Bavarians and Austrians being treated as second class citizens.

My grandmother had left Germany in 1935 because of what she saw coming with the Hitler regime and she used to rail constantly against the mistreatment of others and racial injustice. She also used to quote Schiller and Goethe to me. Go figure.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Dave: Cletus was after my time (I graduated HS in 1983). Jethro was especially popular because of “The Beverly Hillbillies” and the Jethro Bodine character.

You make a good point about being “culturalist” in our views. Everyone is tribal to a certain extent and I saw this when I was a kid. My family is German on both sides, with my dad’s family hailing from Northern Germany (Prussia) and my mom’s family largely coming from Austria. We were at a family picnic and I overheard my grandmother, who was a very cultured woman and university professor, refer to Austrians as “goat herding yokels”. Not only was this shocking, but the laughter from the surrounding family members (on my dad’s side) was a jolt, too. When I asked my dad about this (out of earshot of my mom), my dad rolled his eyes and said “Austrians” with a tone of complete contempt. Prussians consider themselves “true” Germans, with Southern Germans, Bavarians and Austrians being treated as second class citizens.

My grandmother had left Germany in 1935 because of what she saw coming with the Hitler regime and she used to rail constantly against the mistreatment of others and racial injustice. She also used to quote Schiller and Goethe to me. Go figure.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Afx: Not to sound completely daft, but aren’t Oriental people, well, Oriental? I know Asian might be a preferred term, but people from Asia are Oriental, just like people from the West are Occidental. It might be a dated usage, but it is technically correct.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Afx: Not to sound completely daft, but aren’t Oriental people, well, Oriental? I know Asian might be a preferred term, but people from Asia are Oriental, just like people from the West are Occidental. It might be a dated usage, but it is technically correct.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Afx: Not to sound completely daft, but aren’t Oriental people, well, Oriental? I know Asian might be a preferred term, but people from Asia are Oriental, just like people from the West are Occidental. It might be a dated usage, but it is technically correct.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Afx: Not to sound completely daft, but aren’t Oriental people, well, Oriental? I know Asian might be a preferred term, but people from Asia are Oriental, just like people from the West are Occidental. It might be a dated usage, but it is technically correct.

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