ObamaCare…coming soon

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Ucodegen: Back in the day, I used to be a CFO for an insurance brokerage. During one of my many bouts of attempting to contain costs, I did a study for the five major California offices (SD, OC, LA, SF and Sacto) on warranty programs for office automation equipment (printers, faxes, copiers, etc).

We were spending over a hundred thousand per year on warranty programs for the various machines and I wanted to see what would happen if, rather than paying the warranty amount, I opted only to pay on a per call service basis.

The difference was shocking. In the offices I was directly responsible for (San Diego and Orange County), we went from spending over $20,000 per year on warranties to spending less than a $1,000 per year on a per call service basis.

Even when I added in the cost of servicing aging machines, it was still far cheaper and by an order of magnitude. The warranty programs were obviously a form of insurance, but, up until that point, I had never sat down and considered the true “cost” of maintaining that insurance. I would wager that health insurance, philosophically speaking, is exactly the same.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=sdgrrl]Allan, it is completely your right to hate Pelosi to her core and wish that she and the horse she rode on would just plunder in to the sunset.

I feel the need to point out though that she did not say that people who oppose health care reform are unAmerican. Her comments were in regards specifically to the town hall protesters who were shouting down and not allowing anyone else to speak. These people were not speaking their mind they simply wanted distraction and confusion. Freedom of speech is an American right and in my opinion these fringe folks were not being respectful of anyone else’s right to free speech.

[/quote]

Sdgrrl: I don’t disagree at all about respect and Afx and I had this same discussion, wherein he made the same point you did and I agreed with him as well.

No, my issue with Pelosi goes far deeper than just the “un-American” comment. This woman is completely tone deaf and is showing a disconnect with the American people that would do Marie Antoinette proud.

Referring to the protests as “Astroturf” and “manufactured”, the comments about “swastikas” and the general self-aggrandizing arrogance is what truly offends me. Hillary Clinton used to drive me bugshit with that same Mommy State Socialism mantra “It takes a village to raise a child”. No, Hillary, it doesn’t. It takes two committed parents (and, yes, that might include two moms or two dads, whatever floats your boat) or one committed parent and a morally centered (and, no, religion or spirituality doesn’t necessarily have to come into play here; this is America and thus that’s your choice) upbringing that stresses decency, common sense and respect regardless of race, color or creed.

What both parties have lost in their race to the bottom (and, make no mistake, the Dems are charging lower right along with the Repubs) is decency, common sense and a respect for those who do not think as you do.

That’s what offends me about Pelosi. And Michelle Bachmann and Sarah Palin and Rush Limbaugh and James Carville and Keith Olbermann and Ann Coulter and… You get my drift.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=sdgrrl]Allan, it is completely your right to hate Pelosi to her core and wish that she and the horse she rode on would just plunder in to the sunset.

I feel the need to point out though that she did not say that people who oppose health care reform are unAmerican. Her comments were in regards specifically to the town hall protesters who were shouting down and not allowing anyone else to speak. These people were not speaking their mind they simply wanted distraction and confusion. Freedom of speech is an American right and in my opinion these fringe folks were not being respectful of anyone else’s right to free speech.

[/quote]

Sdgrrl: I don’t disagree at all about respect and Afx and I had this same discussion, wherein he made the same point you did and I agreed with him as well.

No, my issue with Pelosi goes far deeper than just the “un-American” comment. This woman is completely tone deaf and is showing a disconnect with the American people that would do Marie Antoinette proud.

Referring to the protests as “Astroturf” and “manufactured”, the comments about “swastikas” and the general self-aggrandizing arrogance is what truly offends me. Hillary Clinton used to drive me bugshit with that same Mommy State Socialism mantra “It takes a village to raise a child”. No, Hillary, it doesn’t. It takes two committed parents (and, yes, that might include two moms or two dads, whatever floats your boat) or one committed parent and a morally centered (and, no, religion or spirituality doesn’t necessarily have to come into play here; this is America and thus that’s your choice) upbringing that stresses decency, common sense and respect regardless of race, color or creed.

What both parties have lost in their race to the bottom (and, make no mistake, the Dems are charging lower right along with the Repubs) is decency, common sense and a respect for those who do not think as you do.

That’s what offends me about Pelosi. And Michelle Bachmann and Sarah Palin and Rush Limbaugh and James Carville and Keith Olbermann and Ann Coulter and… You get my drift.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=sdgrrl]Allan, it is completely your right to hate Pelosi to her core and wish that she and the horse she rode on would just plunder in to the sunset.

I feel the need to point out though that she did not say that people who oppose health care reform are unAmerican. Her comments were in regards specifically to the town hall protesters who were shouting down and not allowing anyone else to speak. These people were not speaking their mind they simply wanted distraction and confusion. Freedom of speech is an American right and in my opinion these fringe folks were not being respectful of anyone else’s right to free speech.

[/quote]

Sdgrrl: I don’t disagree at all about respect and Afx and I had this same discussion, wherein he made the same point you did and I agreed with him as well.

No, my issue with Pelosi goes far deeper than just the “un-American” comment. This woman is completely tone deaf and is showing a disconnect with the American people that would do Marie Antoinette proud.

Referring to the protests as “Astroturf” and “manufactured”, the comments about “swastikas” and the general self-aggrandizing arrogance is what truly offends me. Hillary Clinton used to drive me bugshit with that same Mommy State Socialism mantra “It takes a village to raise a child”. No, Hillary, it doesn’t. It takes two committed parents (and, yes, that might include two moms or two dads, whatever floats your boat) or one committed parent and a morally centered (and, no, religion or spirituality doesn’t necessarily have to come into play here; this is America and thus that’s your choice) upbringing that stresses decency, common sense and respect regardless of race, color or creed.

What both parties have lost in their race to the bottom (and, make no mistake, the Dems are charging lower right along with the Repubs) is decency, common sense and a respect for those who do not think as you do.

That’s what offends me about Pelosi. And Michelle Bachmann and Sarah Palin and Rush Limbaugh and James Carville and Keith Olbermann and Ann Coulter and… You get my drift.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=sdgrrl]Allan, it is completely your right to hate Pelosi to her core and wish that she and the horse she rode on would just plunder in to the sunset.

I feel the need to point out though that she did not say that people who oppose health care reform are unAmerican. Her comments were in regards specifically to the town hall protesters who were shouting down and not allowing anyone else to speak. These people were not speaking their mind they simply wanted distraction and confusion. Freedom of speech is an American right and in my opinion these fringe folks were not being respectful of anyone else’s right to free speech.

[/quote]

Sdgrrl: I don’t disagree at all about respect and Afx and I had this same discussion, wherein he made the same point you did and I agreed with him as well.

No, my issue with Pelosi goes far deeper than just the “un-American” comment. This woman is completely tone deaf and is showing a disconnect with the American people that would do Marie Antoinette proud.

Referring to the protests as “Astroturf” and “manufactured”, the comments about “swastikas” and the general self-aggrandizing arrogance is what truly offends me. Hillary Clinton used to drive me bugshit with that same Mommy State Socialism mantra “It takes a village to raise a child”. No, Hillary, it doesn’t. It takes two committed parents (and, yes, that might include two moms or two dads, whatever floats your boat) or one committed parent and a morally centered (and, no, religion or spirituality doesn’t necessarily have to come into play here; this is America and thus that’s your choice) upbringing that stresses decency, common sense and respect regardless of race, color or creed.

What both parties have lost in their race to the bottom (and, make no mistake, the Dems are charging lower right along with the Repubs) is decency, common sense and a respect for those who do not think as you do.

That’s what offends me about Pelosi. And Michelle Bachmann and Sarah Palin and Rush Limbaugh and James Carville and Keith Olbermann and Ann Coulter and… You get my drift.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=sdgrrl]Allan, it is completely your right to hate Pelosi to her core and wish that she and the horse she rode on would just plunder in to the sunset.

I feel the need to point out though that she did not say that people who oppose health care reform are unAmerican. Her comments were in regards specifically to the town hall protesters who were shouting down and not allowing anyone else to speak. These people were not speaking their mind they simply wanted distraction and confusion. Freedom of speech is an American right and in my opinion these fringe folks were not being respectful of anyone else’s right to free speech.

[/quote]

Sdgrrl: I don’t disagree at all about respect and Afx and I had this same discussion, wherein he made the same point you did and I agreed with him as well.

No, my issue with Pelosi goes far deeper than just the “un-American” comment. This woman is completely tone deaf and is showing a disconnect with the American people that would do Marie Antoinette proud.

Referring to the protests as “Astroturf” and “manufactured”, the comments about “swastikas” and the general self-aggrandizing arrogance is what truly offends me. Hillary Clinton used to drive me bugshit with that same Mommy State Socialism mantra “It takes a village to raise a child”. No, Hillary, it doesn’t. It takes two committed parents (and, yes, that might include two moms or two dads, whatever floats your boat) or one committed parent and a morally centered (and, no, religion or spirituality doesn’t necessarily have to come into play here; this is America and thus that’s your choice) upbringing that stresses decency, common sense and respect regardless of race, color or creed.

What both parties have lost in their race to the bottom (and, make no mistake, the Dems are charging lower right along with the Repubs) is decency, common sense and a respect for those who do not think as you do.

That’s what offends me about Pelosi. And Michelle Bachmann and Sarah Palin and Rush Limbaugh and James Carville and Keith Olbermann and Ann Coulter and… You get my drift.

[jonnycsd]

[quote=afx114]Also, if France, Canada, England, Japan, etc ration healthcare so bad, how do you explain the fact that they have by far a higher life expectancy and lower infant mortality than the US? The higher life-expectancy is even better for those over age 60 in those countries. Must be all that rationing I guess?[/quote]

Anyone got any data on how much quality of medical care contributes to national averages for longevity? Non medical care factors that may influence this number include diet, physical fitness, genetics, lifestyle, wealth, obesity, etc. Given that one of the leading causes of death in America is car accidents it may be that the very high miles driven per year is pulling our numbers down a little. AFX411s argument does not take any of this into consideration.

Bottom line: AFX114 needs to present some data supporting the implied connection between longevity and quality of medical care. My hypothesis is that in an apples to apples comparison of medical care the USA would trump any other nation.

[jonnycsd]

[quote=afx114]Also, if France, Canada, England, Japan, etc ration healthcare so bad, how do you explain the fact that they have by far a higher life expectancy and lower infant mortality than the US? The higher life-expectancy is even better for those over age 60 in those countries. Must be all that rationing I guess?[/quote]

Anyone got any data on how much quality of medical care contributes to national averages for longevity? Non medical care factors that may influence this number include diet, physical fitness, genetics, lifestyle, wealth, obesity, etc. Given that one of the leading causes of death in America is car accidents it may be that the very high miles driven per year is pulling our numbers down a little. AFX411s argument does not take any of this into consideration.

Bottom line: AFX114 needs to present some data supporting the implied connection between longevity and quality of medical care. My hypothesis is that in an apples to apples comparison of medical care the USA would trump any other nation.

[jonnycsd]

[quote=afx114]Also, if France, Canada, England, Japan, etc ration healthcare so bad, how do you explain the fact that they have by far a higher life expectancy and lower infant mortality than the US? The higher life-expectancy is even better for those over age 60 in those countries. Must be all that rationing I guess?[/quote]

Anyone got any data on how much quality of medical care contributes to national averages for longevity? Non medical care factors that may influence this number include diet, physical fitness, genetics, lifestyle, wealth, obesity, etc. Given that one of the leading causes of death in America is car accidents it may be that the very high miles driven per year is pulling our numbers down a little. AFX411s argument does not take any of this into consideration.

Bottom line: AFX114 needs to present some data supporting the implied connection between longevity and quality of medical care. My hypothesis is that in an apples to apples comparison of medical care the USA would trump any other nation.

[jonnycsd]

[quote=afx114]Also, if France, Canada, England, Japan, etc ration healthcare so bad, how do you explain the fact that they have by far a higher life expectancy and lower infant mortality than the US? The higher life-expectancy is even better for those over age 60 in those countries. Must be all that rationing I guess?[/quote]

Anyone got any data on how much quality of medical care contributes to national averages for longevity? Non medical care factors that may influence this number include diet, physical fitness, genetics, lifestyle, wealth, obesity, etc. Given that one of the leading causes of death in America is car accidents it may be that the very high miles driven per year is pulling our numbers down a little. AFX411s argument does not take any of this into consideration.

Bottom line: AFX114 needs to present some data supporting the implied connection between longevity and quality of medical care. My hypothesis is that in an apples to apples comparison of medical care the USA would trump any other nation.

[jonnycsd]

[quote=afx114]Also, if France, Canada, England, Japan, etc ration healthcare so bad, how do you explain the fact that they have by far a higher life expectancy and lower infant mortality than the US? The higher life-expectancy is even better for those over age 60 in those countries. Must be all that rationing I guess?[/quote]

Anyone got any data on how much quality of medical care contributes to national averages for longevity? Non medical care factors that may influence this number include diet, physical fitness, genetics, lifestyle, wealth, obesity, etc. Given that one of the leading causes of death in America is car accidents it may be that the very high miles driven per year is pulling our numbers down a little. AFX411s argument does not take any of this into consideration.

Bottom line: AFX114 needs to present some data supporting the implied connection between longevity and quality of medical care. My hypothesis is that in an apples to apples comparison of medical care the USA would trump any other nation.

[jonnycsd]

The OT founda great video. I recently saw this one and think it does an even better job of laying out the pitfalls of a nationalized health system . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdx_2cuPgQQ

[jonnycsd]

The OT founda great video. I recently saw this one and think it does an even better job of laying out the pitfalls of a nationalized health system . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdx_2cuPgQQ

[jonnycsd]

The OT founda great video. I recently saw this one and think it does an even better job of laying out the pitfalls of a nationalized health system . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdx_2cuPgQQ

[jonnycsd]

The OT founda great video. I recently saw this one and think it does an even better job of laying out the pitfalls of a nationalized health system . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdx_2cuPgQQ

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