Obama gets peace prize for not being Bush!

[ucodegen]

My point was that liberals see the shades of gray in life. Conservatives are the ones who always claim that one has to make the best of the hand that God dealt. Period.

‘Couldn’t be more wrong. I also notice that this statement seems awfully black and white in and of itself. I hope it is not representative of the shades of gray that liberals see.

The fringes on both sides are black and white and the large middle(gray) which is considered both/either ‘liberal’ and/or ‘conservative’.. is largely ignored. Again, religion is brought into the situation and it it does not belong there.

So I find it very rich that a conservative, 34 years since the end of a lost conflict would still argue “what if”.

What-ifs are only useful to learn. A person is forever doomed to repeat the past if they don’t learn from it. That said, the past is nothing to dwell upon or live in.. it is just.. the past.

Now the conservatives have the gall to blame Obama for conflicts that Bush started and screwed up since the beginning. Those wars have already been screwed up beyond repair.

Where? I don’t see any such ‘blaming’. I do see Conservatives bringing up issues.. ie potentially leaving Iraq in the lurch without a good exit plan (almost like the scenario during the last Iraq war.. so we won, now what.. no real good plan for the population of Iraq) Also it seems that Obama is literally following what Bush was likely to have done, with respect to both wars, would a third term be possible. Under those circumstances; questions about Obama’s plans w/respect to Afghanistan and Obama’s buildup are valid. Additionally, questions about the platform that Obama ran on with respect to both wars are valid.. particularly since his election platform with respect to these wars contributed to Obama’s win. A ramp up in armed forces does not look like the ‘negotiated exit’ he was stating during the election. Does Obama’s rhetoric on the wars match his current actions?

Some important notes:
The ramp-up in Afghanistan is considerably larger than the amount carried in the press. The numbers you are seeing in the press are the ‘fighting’ troups and do not include logistics and the large increase in the number of Army Corps of Engineers. Take the published number (20,000) and triple it.

Strategically, the condition of Iraq is more important than Afghanistan(To the US, Europe and Asia). Afghanistan has minimal resources. On the other hand, Iraq has considerable resources (both oil and uranium). Should an organization like the Taliban or Al Qaeda gain power in Iraq, they will not need to raise funds to commit terror on other countries. Neither would they need to import uranium for a nuclear or dirty bomb. Leaving Iraq ‘in the lurch’ may create a large enough power vacuum to allow an organization like the Taliban or Al Qaeda to achieve power.
NOTE: With the recent advances in oil sands/shale processing, the importance of Iraqi oil to the US has significantly diminished. Europe is one of the primary consumers of Middle East oil.

[sd_matt]

Ucogden

Was about to say it myself but you said it better.

Brian

Shades of grey. LMAO. Watching those two sides argue is like watching a cat fight the mirror. Seriously bro. You need to listen to A.M. radio and then Air America, Frankin, Moore ect.
Do that and you’ll start to think they both read the same issue of”Mad Libs” but fill in different words.

And reading a history book or two about war would help. Some of what you say is spot on and then you make statements like the one about the Cons blaming Obama for starting wars. Yowzers!!

[sd_matt]

Ucogden

Was about to say it myself but you said it better.

Brian

Shades of grey. LMAO. Watching those two sides argue is like watching a cat fight the mirror. Seriously bro. You need to listen to A.M. radio and then Air America, Frankin, Moore ect.
Do that and you’ll start to think they both read the same issue of”Mad Libs” but fill in different words.

And reading a history book or two about war would help. Some of what you say is spot on and then you make statements like the one about the Cons blaming Obama for starting wars. Yowzers!!

[sd_matt]

Ucogden

Was about to say it myself but you said it better.

Brian

Shades of grey. LMAO. Watching those two sides argue is like watching a cat fight the mirror. Seriously bro. You need to listen to A.M. radio and then Air America, Frankin, Moore ect.
Do that and you’ll start to think they both read the same issue of”Mad Libs” but fill in different words.

And reading a history book or two about war would help. Some of what you say is spot on and then you make statements like the one about the Cons blaming Obama for starting wars. Yowzers!!

[sd_matt]

Ucogden

Was about to say it myself but you said it better.

Brian

Shades of grey. LMAO. Watching those two sides argue is like watching a cat fight the mirror. Seriously bro. You need to listen to A.M. radio and then Air America, Frankin, Moore ect.
Do that and you’ll start to think they both read the same issue of”Mad Libs” but fill in different words.

And reading a history book or two about war would help. Some of what you say is spot on and then you make statements like the one about the Cons blaming Obama for starting wars. Yowzers!!

[sd_matt]

Ucogden

Was about to say it myself but you said it better.

Brian

Shades of grey. LMAO. Watching those two sides argue is like watching a cat fight the mirror. Seriously bro. You need to listen to A.M. radio and then Air America, Frankin, Moore ect.
Do that and you’ll start to think they both read the same issue of”Mad Libs” but fill in different words.

And reading a history book or two about war would help. Some of what you say is spot on and then you make statements like the one about the Cons blaming Obama for starting wars. Yowzers!!

[surveyor]

[quote=Arraya]If we “won” Vietnam, would anything be different? What would we have won, bragging rights?[/quote]

Bin Ladin said specifically that when he studied American history, that he concluded that America was a paper tiger, that if you bloody its nose, it would run away.

He got that lesson from Vietnam.

[surveyor]

[quote=Arraya]If we “won” Vietnam, would anything be different? What would we have won, bragging rights?[/quote]

Bin Ladin said specifically that when he studied American history, that he concluded that America was a paper tiger, that if you bloody its nose, it would run away.

He got that lesson from Vietnam.

[surveyor]

[quote=Arraya]If we “won” Vietnam, would anything be different? What would we have won, bragging rights?[/quote]

Bin Ladin said specifically that when he studied American history, that he concluded that America was a paper tiger, that if you bloody its nose, it would run away.

He got that lesson from Vietnam.

[surveyor]

[quote=Arraya]If we “won” Vietnam, would anything be different? What would we have won, bragging rights?[/quote]

Bin Ladin said specifically that when he studied American history, that he concluded that America was a paper tiger, that if you bloody its nose, it would run away.

He got that lesson from Vietnam.

[surveyor]

[quote=Arraya]If we “won” Vietnam, would anything be different? What would we have won, bragging rights?[/quote]

Bin Ladin said specifically that when he studied American history, that he concluded that America was a paper tiger, that if you bloody its nose, it would run away.

He got that lesson from Vietnam.

[briansd1]

[quote=ucodegen] Again, religion is brought into the situation and it it does not belong there. [/quote]

I’m so glad that as a conservative you think that religion doesn’t belong in political discourse. You should tell your fellow conservatives.

I like to bring up God because Republicans love to bring up God. Unfortunately, God’s plan can be very unpredictable such as making Obama the president.

[quote=ucodegen] almost like the scenario during the last Iraq war.. so we won, now what.. no real good plan for the population of Iraq) [/quote]

Sounds like nation building. I though that we weren’t going to do that after Kosovo anymore.

It is our responsibility to bring prosperity and democracy to the people of Iraq?

[quote=ucodegen] Also it seems that Obama is literally following what Bush was likely to have done, with respect to both wars, would a third term be possible. Under those circumstances; questions about Obama’s plans w/respect to Afghanistan and Obama’s buildup are valid [/quote]

If Obama is doing what Bush would have done, then what is the Republican beef?

We, progressives, should be upset.

Why are the Republicans upset? The Republicans should be happy that they are getting more of what they wanted.

[quote=ucodegen]NOTE: With the recent advances in oil sands/shale processing, the importance of Iraqi oil to the US has significantly diminished. Europe is one of the primary consumers of Middle East oil. [/quote]

So does it mean that we are sending our men and resources to protect European interests? Wouldn’t that make us gullible?

[briansd1]

[quote=ucodegen] Again, religion is brought into the situation and it it does not belong there. [/quote]

I’m so glad that as a conservative you think that religion doesn’t belong in political discourse. You should tell your fellow conservatives.

I like to bring up God because Republicans love to bring up God. Unfortunately, God’s plan can be very unpredictable such as making Obama the president.

[quote=ucodegen] almost like the scenario during the last Iraq war.. so we won, now what.. no real good plan for the population of Iraq) [/quote]

Sounds like nation building. I though that we weren’t going to do that after Kosovo anymore.

It is our responsibility to bring prosperity and democracy to the people of Iraq?

[quote=ucodegen] Also it seems that Obama is literally following what Bush was likely to have done, with respect to both wars, would a third term be possible. Under those circumstances; questions about Obama’s plans w/respect to Afghanistan and Obama’s buildup are valid [/quote]

If Obama is doing what Bush would have done, then what is the Republican beef?

We, progressives, should be upset.

Why are the Republicans upset? The Republicans should be happy that they are getting more of what they wanted.

[quote=ucodegen]NOTE: With the recent advances in oil sands/shale processing, the importance of Iraqi oil to the US has significantly diminished. Europe is one of the primary consumers of Middle East oil. [/quote]

So does it mean that we are sending our men and resources to protect European interests? Wouldn’t that make us gullible?

[briansd1]

[quote=ucodegen] Again, religion is brought into the situation and it it does not belong there. [/quote]

I’m so glad that as a conservative you think that religion doesn’t belong in political discourse. You should tell your fellow conservatives.

I like to bring up God because Republicans love to bring up God. Unfortunately, God’s plan can be very unpredictable such as making Obama the president.

[quote=ucodegen] almost like the scenario during the last Iraq war.. so we won, now what.. no real good plan for the population of Iraq) [/quote]

Sounds like nation building. I though that we weren’t going to do that after Kosovo anymore.

It is our responsibility to bring prosperity and democracy to the people of Iraq?

[quote=ucodegen] Also it seems that Obama is literally following what Bush was likely to have done, with respect to both wars, would a third term be possible. Under those circumstances; questions about Obama’s plans w/respect to Afghanistan and Obama’s buildup are valid [/quote]

If Obama is doing what Bush would have done, then what is the Republican beef?

We, progressives, should be upset.

Why are the Republicans upset? The Republicans should be happy that they are getting more of what they wanted.

[quote=ucodegen]NOTE: With the recent advances in oil sands/shale processing, the importance of Iraqi oil to the US has significantly diminished. Europe is one of the primary consumers of Middle East oil. [/quote]

So does it mean that we are sending our men and resources to protect European interests? Wouldn’t that make us gullible?

[briansd1]

[quote=ucodegen] Again, religion is brought into the situation and it it does not belong there. [/quote]

I’m so glad that as a conservative you think that religion doesn’t belong in political discourse. You should tell your fellow conservatives.

I like to bring up God because Republicans love to bring up God. Unfortunately, God’s plan can be very unpredictable such as making Obama the president.

[quote=ucodegen] almost like the scenario during the last Iraq war.. so we won, now what.. no real good plan for the population of Iraq) [/quote]

Sounds like nation building. I though that we weren’t going to do that after Kosovo anymore.

It is our responsibility to bring prosperity and democracy to the people of Iraq?

[quote=ucodegen] Also it seems that Obama is literally following what Bush was likely to have done, with respect to both wars, would a third term be possible. Under those circumstances; questions about Obama’s plans w/respect to Afghanistan and Obama’s buildup are valid [/quote]

If Obama is doing what Bush would have done, then what is the Republican beef?

We, progressives, should be upset.

Why are the Republicans upset? The Republicans should be happy that they are getting more of what they wanted.

[quote=ucodegen]NOTE: With the recent advances in oil sands/shale processing, the importance of Iraqi oil to the US has significantly diminished. Europe is one of the primary consumers of Middle East oil. [/quote]

So does it mean that we are sending our men and resources to protect European interests? Wouldn’t that make us gullible?

[Author]

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