Obama and Geithner: Government, Enron-Style

[blahblahblah]

You guys are talking like gargantuan unpayable debts are a bad thing. Debt is the mighty lever that allows a tiny privileged few to move mountains and to change the course of history. It is the ultimate Silent Weapon for a Quiet War.

Always remember, just because something is bad for you and everyone you know doesn’t mean that it’s bad for everybody.

[blahblahblah]

[quote=walterwhite]Our nation is like a man with huge pecs but emaciated buttocks.[/quote]

The bard once wrote that “brevity is the soul of wit”. You sir are a master, your posts never fail to make me laugh.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=briansd1]I’m not blaming the GOP. I’m blaming the policies of the independent Federal Reserve. I’m blaming Alan Greenspan in particular.

I’m blaming the economic philosophy that led to the financial crisis of 2008 and the mess we have today.[/quote]

Brian: And there I will agree with you completely. Of course, “economic philosophy” is a mite grand. We haven’t had meaningful policies, philosophies, discussions, politics, programs, etc, in this country for quite some time.

We have done a fantastic job of can kicking, though, and then diverting everyone’s attention by deploying wedge issues like gay marriage. That, combined with an emasculated press, places us squarely where we are today.

[briansd1]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
We have done a fantastic job of can kicking, though, and then diverting everyone’s attention by deploying wedge issues like gay marriage. That, combined with an emasculated press, places us squarely where we are today.[/quote]

I think that gay marriage is a wedge issue only because some people make it into a wedge issue.

The world has evolved. Gays are accepted in advanced countries around the world, even in a religious state like Israel.

As Hillary Clinton said, gay rights are human rights. Let’s make it so and be done with it, at least in our own country. Why make into a wedge issue?

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=briansd1][quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
We have done a fantastic job of can kicking, though, and then diverting everyone’s attention by deploying wedge issues like gay marriage. That, combined with an emasculated press, places us squarely where we are today.[/quote]

I think that gay marriage is a wedge issue only because some people make it into a wedge issue.

The world has evolved. Gays are accepted in advanced countries around the world, even in a religious state like Israel.

As Hillary Clinton said, gay rights are human rights. Let’s make it so and be done with it, at least in our own country. Why make into a wedge issue?[/quote]

Brian: You simultaneously miss my point and make it for me: Contrived wedge issues like gay rights allow pols from both parties to avoid discussing real, substantive issues and thus continue to kick the can down the road.

“Gay rights are human rights”? What a monumentally stupid pronouncement. Are heterosexual rights human rights? I could care less about gay rights, it isn’t an issue worth delving into. I’d rather discuss meaningful reform.

[NotCranky]

Now, I can’t use being gay in Israel or USA, as an excuse to avoid the draft… what a convenient bummer.Maybe it is about social engineering not human rights?

[The-Shoveler]

Whatever I still believe the endgame there is only one outcome

“debt monetization”

What form it takes and how long it takes is another issue.

(The U.S.A. Federal Gov will never I repeat NEVER !! run out of money, the debt is just a way to keep control).

[briansd1]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Brian: You simultaneously miss my point and make it for me: Contrived wedge issues like gay rights allow pols from both parties to avoid discussing real, substantive issues and thus continue to kick the can down the road.
[/quote]

Speaking of contrived issues, the mother of them all is abortion. It’s a matter of settled law. But each election cycle, abortion is being revived to score political points. That’s been going on for several decades.

On gay rights, society has evolved. It’s a matter of settled social norms in advanced countries. Without fanfare, we ought to treat gays the same way as straights and forever close that case.

Your argument seems to be let’s not do anything unless we can agree on big systemic reforms.

My point is that we ought to quickly settle all the small easy stuff; change the culture to one of cooperation so that we tackle the big issues.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=briansd1]
Your argument seems to be let’s not do anything unless we can agree on big systemic reforms.

My point is that we ought to quickly settle all the small easy stuff; change the culture to one of cooperation so that we tackle the big issues.[/quote]

Brian: Nope, not my argument at all. These contrived issues are used as a distraction to avoid any real, necessary change.

So, instead of discussing reform of, say, Medicare, which is necessary, politicians either spin into hyperbole (“Mediscare/Throw grandma from the cliff”) or change the discussion to another topic (and wedge issues are hugely convenient).

The more thoughtful elements of both parties recognize that, unless and until we confront entitlement spending (and Defense), this problem will grow to crisis proportions and quickly.

Unfortunately, we’re in a presidential election cycle, so both parties are simply content to pander to their respective bases and ignore the real issues completely.

[briansd1]

Allan, since you’re into big issues, we should focus on that mother of all wedge issues: ABORTION.

It’s settled law and that matter should be put to rest, forever. Those who revive it should be flogged.

Like I said, one thing at time, we can make progress.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=briansd1]Allan, since you’re into big issues, we should focus on that mother of all wedge issues: ABORTION.

It’s settled law and that matter should be put to rest, forever. Those who revive it should be flogged.

Like I said, one thing at time, we can make progress.[/quote]

Brian: As much as I hate to do this, I really need to point out the elephant in the room: As a Progressive, how on earth are you advancing the notion of “settled law”?

The idea of “settled law” is right up there with “settled science”, as in, there’s no such thing. Looking at US history since the Civil War, I’d suggest you consider the immense changes in the social landscape and how many of those changes are a direct result of “unsettled” law.

[briansd1]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Brian: As much as I hate to do this, I really need to point out the elephant in the room: As a Progressive, how on earth are you advancing the notion of “settled law”?

The idea of “settled law” is right up there with “settled science”, as in, there’s no such thing. Looking at US history since the Civil War, I’d suggest you consider the immense changes in the social landscape and how many of those changes are a direct result of “unsettled” law.[/quote]

Good point Allan. On the other hand, wouldn’t conservatives defend settled law? After all, that’s what conservatism is all about.

My argument is that intelligent conservatives know full well that reversing the New Deal and Roe v. Wade is futile and impossible. But they contrive up the same issues over and over again to whip up their base.

Thomas Dewey knew very well that was futile and he chose to move on.

Today, on abortion and gay rights, the conservative business establishment has already moved on. So it’s clear that those issues are just contrived to rile up the base. Nothing will get reversed, but those contrived issues do get people to the polls.

I’d make a $10,000 wager indexed to inflation. In 20 years, we’ll continue to have legal abortion and gay marriage will be legal in the majority of states. Eventually, maybe not in 20 years, but eventually, the Federal government will recognize gay marriage for tax returns and such. But the same issues will continue to be contrived up again and again by politicians who have run out of ideas.

In the mean time, we are falling behind countries such as Canada in terms of social progress. It’ll be interesting if countries such as Taiwan adopt gay marriage with America following a couple decades later. How exactly are we leading the world if the world is moving on without us?

[sdrealtor]

You are trying to bet the wrong person. Mitt Romney has a much bigger penchant for $10,000 bets.

[Author]

Posts