NPR: “Offshore Tax Havens”

[gandalf]

I rather liked “Brain-dead GOP zombie fuck-bots”…

But anyway, the Chinaman is not the issue here.

You are correct, and I agree, the union criticism is accurate, there is widespread corruption, not paying into pensions, etc. It does need to get fixed, and now is rather a good time to fix it. We should all have a debate. A good one with facts. I’m actually okay with a balanced discussion of union pension issues.

One of the best examples I can think of is right here in town with the City of San Diego, City employee union, illicit deals to increase benefits. That got moved through via Republicans mainly, which is hilarious because you don’t hear the zombie GOP fuck-bots criticizing the local GOP for their role in orchestrating these sweetheart union deals for City employees. It’s all about democrats and school teachers in Wisconsin…

Overall, my response to the union criticisms is one of proportion, measuring the cost of the bubble in raw dollars — and the cost of the financial crisis dwarfs anything related to union benefits. The financial crisis CAUSED the pension bust. Nothing even remotely compares with what happened with finance, insurance and real estate businesses during the bubble, the deregulation, the massive fraud, the leveraging, and the subsequent bust and bailouts.

—

The OP topic was about an article about corporate tax evasion. That was the original topic, until it got thread-sharked by brain-dead GOP zombie fuck-bots complaining about democrats and unions. In a better world, I think this thread could have been a very reasonable fact-based discussion on economics and U.S. tax policy, and the gigantic amount of tax avoidance occurring with large multinational corporations.

Does anybody out there have anything intelligent to say about US corporations moving their profits offshore, through shell companies in Ireland, Cayman Islands, etc. — for the express purpose of avoiding US tax obligations?

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=gandalf]I rather liked “Brain-dead GOP zombie fuck-bots”…

But anyway, the Chinaman is not the issue here.

You are correct, and I agree, the union criticism is accurate, there is widespread corruption, not paying into pensions, etc. It does need to get fixed, and now is rather a good time to fix it. We should all have a debate. A good one with facts. I’m actually okay with a balanced discussion of union pension issues.

One of the best examples I can think of is right here in town with the City of San Diego, City employee union, illicit deals to increase benefits, and that got moved through via Republicans mainly, which is hilarious because you don’t hear the zombie GOP fuck-bots criticizing the local GOP for their role in orchestrating these sweetheart union deals for City employees. It’s all about democrats and school teachers in Wisconsin…

But back to my point, which is in fact the larger point, one of proportion, measuring the cost of the bubble in raw dollars — and the cost of the financial crisis dwarfs anything related to union benefits. Hell, it CAUSED the pension bust. Nothing even remotely compares with what happened with finance, insurance and real estate businesses during the bubble, the deregulation, the massive fraud, the leveraging, and the subsequent bust and bailouts. The financial crisis is infinitely more important than pension issues and teacher’s unions, in no small part because it caused the pension issues.

But, I digress! The OP topic was originally about an article about corporate tax evasion. That was the original topic, until it got thread-sharked by brain-dead GOP zombie fuck-bots complaining about democrats and unions…

In a better world, I think this thread could have been a very reasonable fact-based non-partisan discussion on economics and U.S. tax policy, and the gigantic amount of tax avoidance occurring with large multinational corporations.[/quote]

Gandalf: I personally always liked “mindless GOP sheep-fuckers”, but, yeah, the “brain-dead GOP zombie fuck-bots” also has a certain panache to it. Of course, I’m a fucking Raiders fan, so what do I know?

I completely agree in terms of proportion. What Wall Street and the banksters have perpetrated in terms of a fraud on the American people is unprecedented in our history. But it also begs the question: Where the hell are the true Progressives, in the mold of Teddy Roosevelt, to go after these bastards? The sad fact is there is no one in government, from the president on down, willing to take these guys to task.

Which underscores another sad fact: That we, the American people, are getting screwed by our elected officials on BOTH sides of the aisle, and its been going on for years.

I’d also opine that the old saying, “Tax evasion is a crime, tax avoidance is a Constitutionally guaranteed right” holds as true today as ever and what we truly need in this country is real, and effective, tax reform.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=gandalf]I rather liked “Brain-dead GOP zombie fuck-bots”…

But anyway, the Chinaman is not the issue here.

You are correct, and I agree, the union criticism is accurate, there is widespread corruption, not paying into pensions, etc. It does need to get fixed, and now is rather a good time to fix it. We should all have a debate. A good one with facts. I’m actually okay with a balanced discussion of union pension issues.

One of the best examples I can think of is right here in town with the City of San Diego, City employee union, illicit deals to increase benefits, and that got moved through via Republicans mainly, which is hilarious because you don’t hear the zombie GOP fuck-bots criticizing the local GOP for their role in orchestrating these sweetheart union deals for City employees. It’s all about democrats and school teachers in Wisconsin…

But back to my point, which is in fact the larger point, one of proportion, measuring the cost of the bubble in raw dollars — and the cost of the financial crisis dwarfs anything related to union benefits. Hell, it CAUSED the pension bust. Nothing even remotely compares with what happened with finance, insurance and real estate businesses during the bubble, the deregulation, the massive fraud, the leveraging, and the subsequent bust and bailouts. The financial crisis is infinitely more important than pension issues and teacher’s unions, in no small part because it caused the pension issues.

But, I digress! The OP topic was originally about an article about corporate tax evasion. That was the original topic, until it got thread-sharked by brain-dead GOP zombie fuck-bots complaining about democrats and unions…

In a better world, I think this thread could have been a very reasonable fact-based non-partisan discussion on economics and U.S. tax policy, and the gigantic amount of tax avoidance occurring with large multinational corporations.[/quote]

Gandalf: I personally always liked “mindless GOP sheep-fuckers”, but, yeah, the “brain-dead GOP zombie fuck-bots” also has a certain panache to it. Of course, I’m a fucking Raiders fan, so what do I know?

I completely agree in terms of proportion. What Wall Street and the banksters have perpetrated in terms of a fraud on the American people is unprecedented in our history. But it also begs the question: Where the hell are the true Progressives, in the mold of Teddy Roosevelt, to go after these bastards? The sad fact is there is no one in government, from the president on down, willing to take these guys to task.

Which underscores another sad fact: That we, the American people, are getting screwed by our elected officials on BOTH sides of the aisle, and its been going on for years.

I’d also opine that the old saying, “Tax evasion is a crime, tax avoidance is a Constitutionally guaranteed right” holds as true today as ever and what we truly need in this country is real, and effective, tax reform.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=gandalf]I rather liked “Brain-dead GOP zombie fuck-bots”…

But anyway, the Chinaman is not the issue here.

You are correct, and I agree, the union criticism is accurate, there is widespread corruption, not paying into pensions, etc. It does need to get fixed, and now is rather a good time to fix it. We should all have a debate. A good one with facts. I’m actually okay with a balanced discussion of union pension issues.

One of the best examples I can think of is right here in town with the City of San Diego, City employee union, illicit deals to increase benefits, and that got moved through via Republicans mainly, which is hilarious because you don’t hear the zombie GOP fuck-bots criticizing the local GOP for their role in orchestrating these sweetheart union deals for City employees. It’s all about democrats and school teachers in Wisconsin…

But back to my point, which is in fact the larger point, one of proportion, measuring the cost of the bubble in raw dollars — and the cost of the financial crisis dwarfs anything related to union benefits. Hell, it CAUSED the pension bust. Nothing even remotely compares with what happened with finance, insurance and real estate businesses during the bubble, the deregulation, the massive fraud, the leveraging, and the subsequent bust and bailouts. The financial crisis is infinitely more important than pension issues and teacher’s unions, in no small part because it caused the pension issues.

But, I digress! The OP topic was originally about an article about corporate tax evasion. That was the original topic, until it got thread-sharked by brain-dead GOP zombie fuck-bots complaining about democrats and unions…

In a better world, I think this thread could have been a very reasonable fact-based non-partisan discussion on economics and U.S. tax policy, and the gigantic amount of tax avoidance occurring with large multinational corporations.[/quote]

Gandalf: I personally always liked “mindless GOP sheep-fuckers”, but, yeah, the “brain-dead GOP zombie fuck-bots” also has a certain panache to it. Of course, I’m a fucking Raiders fan, so what do I know?

I completely agree in terms of proportion. What Wall Street and the banksters have perpetrated in terms of a fraud on the American people is unprecedented in our history. But it also begs the question: Where the hell are the true Progressives, in the mold of Teddy Roosevelt, to go after these bastards? The sad fact is there is no one in government, from the president on down, willing to take these guys to task.

Which underscores another sad fact: That we, the American people, are getting screwed by our elected officials on BOTH sides of the aisle, and its been going on for years.

I’d also opine that the old saying, “Tax evasion is a crime, tax avoidance is a Constitutionally guaranteed right” holds as true today as ever and what we truly need in this country is real, and effective, tax reform.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=gandalf]I rather liked “Brain-dead GOP zombie fuck-bots”…

But anyway, the Chinaman is not the issue here.

You are correct, and I agree, the union criticism is accurate, there is widespread corruption, not paying into pensions, etc. It does need to get fixed, and now is rather a good time to fix it. We should all have a debate. A good one with facts. I’m actually okay with a balanced discussion of union pension issues.

One of the best examples I can think of is right here in town with the City of San Diego, City employee union, illicit deals to increase benefits, and that got moved through via Republicans mainly, which is hilarious because you don’t hear the zombie GOP fuck-bots criticizing the local GOP for their role in orchestrating these sweetheart union deals for City employees. It’s all about democrats and school teachers in Wisconsin…

But back to my point, which is in fact the larger point, one of proportion, measuring the cost of the bubble in raw dollars — and the cost of the financial crisis dwarfs anything related to union benefits. Hell, it CAUSED the pension bust. Nothing even remotely compares with what happened with finance, insurance and real estate businesses during the bubble, the deregulation, the massive fraud, the leveraging, and the subsequent bust and bailouts. The financial crisis is infinitely more important than pension issues and teacher’s unions, in no small part because it caused the pension issues.

But, I digress! The OP topic was originally about an article about corporate tax evasion. That was the original topic, until it got thread-sharked by brain-dead GOP zombie fuck-bots complaining about democrats and unions…

In a better world, I think this thread could have been a very reasonable fact-based non-partisan discussion on economics and U.S. tax policy, and the gigantic amount of tax avoidance occurring with large multinational corporations.[/quote]

Gandalf: I personally always liked “mindless GOP sheep-fuckers”, but, yeah, the “brain-dead GOP zombie fuck-bots” also has a certain panache to it. Of course, I’m a fucking Raiders fan, so what do I know?

I completely agree in terms of proportion. What Wall Street and the banksters have perpetrated in terms of a fraud on the American people is unprecedented in our history. But it also begs the question: Where the hell are the true Progressives, in the mold of Teddy Roosevelt, to go after these bastards? The sad fact is there is no one in government, from the president on down, willing to take these guys to task.

Which underscores another sad fact: That we, the American people, are getting screwed by our elected officials on BOTH sides of the aisle, and its been going on for years.

I’d also opine that the old saying, “Tax evasion is a crime, tax avoidance is a Constitutionally guaranteed right” holds as true today as ever and what we truly need in this country is real, and effective, tax reform.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=gandalf]I rather liked “Brain-dead GOP zombie fuck-bots”…

But anyway, the Chinaman is not the issue here.

You are correct, and I agree, the union criticism is accurate, there is widespread corruption, not paying into pensions, etc. It does need to get fixed, and now is rather a good time to fix it. We should all have a debate. A good one with facts. I’m actually okay with a balanced discussion of union pension issues.

One of the best examples I can think of is right here in town with the City of San Diego, City employee union, illicit deals to increase benefits, and that got moved through via Republicans mainly, which is hilarious because you don’t hear the zombie GOP fuck-bots criticizing the local GOP for their role in orchestrating these sweetheart union deals for City employees. It’s all about democrats and school teachers in Wisconsin…

But back to my point, which is in fact the larger point, one of proportion, measuring the cost of the bubble in raw dollars — and the cost of the financial crisis dwarfs anything related to union benefits. Hell, it CAUSED the pension bust. Nothing even remotely compares with what happened with finance, insurance and real estate businesses during the bubble, the deregulation, the massive fraud, the leveraging, and the subsequent bust and bailouts. The financial crisis is infinitely more important than pension issues and teacher’s unions, in no small part because it caused the pension issues.

But, I digress! The OP topic was originally about an article about corporate tax evasion. That was the original topic, until it got thread-sharked by brain-dead GOP zombie fuck-bots complaining about democrats and unions…

In a better world, I think this thread could have been a very reasonable fact-based non-partisan discussion on economics and U.S. tax policy, and the gigantic amount of tax avoidance occurring with large multinational corporations.[/quote]

Gandalf: I personally always liked “mindless GOP sheep-fuckers”, but, yeah, the “brain-dead GOP zombie fuck-bots” also has a certain panache to it. Of course, I’m a fucking Raiders fan, so what do I know?

I completely agree in terms of proportion. What Wall Street and the banksters have perpetrated in terms of a fraud on the American people is unprecedented in our history. But it also begs the question: Where the hell are the true Progressives, in the mold of Teddy Roosevelt, to go after these bastards? The sad fact is there is no one in government, from the president on down, willing to take these guys to task.

Which underscores another sad fact: That we, the American people, are getting screwed by our elected officials on BOTH sides of the aisle, and its been going on for years.

I’d also opine that the old saying, “Tax evasion is a crime, tax avoidance is a Constitutionally guaranteed right” holds as true today as ever and what we truly need in this country is real, and effective, tax reform.

[CA renter]

[quote=Vod-Vil]The Democratic party runs California.If they really believe that Banks,Wall Street and Corporations don’t pay their fair share,WHY AREN’T THEY TRYING TO RAISE TAXES ON THE RICH?

Instead of going after tax loopholes for the bankers,they’re pushing for 5 more years of SALES TAX AND CAR TAX increases,which directly impact the working man.[/quote]

You are absolutely right…their first priority should be a reversal of the wealth extraction that has been going on for the past ~30 years. The pension funds ARE trying to sue certain financial institutions for losses, but we’ll have to see how successful they will be against firms that can out-lobby and legally out-gun them many times over.

BTW, if you go to any of the rallies, you’ll never see anyone saying that taxes on Joe Sixpack need to be raised. In every case I’ve ever seen, it is clearly Wall Street (and associates) who are held responsible, and from whom union workers demand reparations.

[CA renter]

[quote=Vod-Vil]The Democratic party runs California.If they really believe that Banks,Wall Street and Corporations don’t pay their fair share,WHY AREN’T THEY TRYING TO RAISE TAXES ON THE RICH?

Instead of going after tax loopholes for the bankers,they’re pushing for 5 more years of SALES TAX AND CAR TAX increases,which directly impact the working man.[/quote]

You are absolutely right…their first priority should be a reversal of the wealth extraction that has been going on for the past ~30 years. The pension funds ARE trying to sue certain financial institutions for losses, but we’ll have to see how successful they will be against firms that can out-lobby and legally out-gun them many times over.

BTW, if you go to any of the rallies, you’ll never see anyone saying that taxes on Joe Sixpack need to be raised. In every case I’ve ever seen, it is clearly Wall Street (and associates) who are held responsible, and from whom union workers demand reparations.

[CA renter]

[quote=Vod-Vil]The Democratic party runs California.If they really believe that Banks,Wall Street and Corporations don’t pay their fair share,WHY AREN’T THEY TRYING TO RAISE TAXES ON THE RICH?

Instead of going after tax loopholes for the bankers,they’re pushing for 5 more years of SALES TAX AND CAR TAX increases,which directly impact the working man.[/quote]

You are absolutely right…their first priority should be a reversal of the wealth extraction that has been going on for the past ~30 years. The pension funds ARE trying to sue certain financial institutions for losses, but we’ll have to see how successful they will be against firms that can out-lobby and legally out-gun them many times over.

BTW, if you go to any of the rallies, you’ll never see anyone saying that taxes on Joe Sixpack need to be raised. In every case I’ve ever seen, it is clearly Wall Street (and associates) who are held responsible, and from whom union workers demand reparations.

[CA renter]

[quote=Vod-Vil]The Democratic party runs California.If they really believe that Banks,Wall Street and Corporations don’t pay their fair share,WHY AREN’T THEY TRYING TO RAISE TAXES ON THE RICH?

Instead of going after tax loopholes for the bankers,they’re pushing for 5 more years of SALES TAX AND CAR TAX increases,which directly impact the working man.[/quote]

You are absolutely right…their first priority should be a reversal of the wealth extraction that has been going on for the past ~30 years. The pension funds ARE trying to sue certain financial institutions for losses, but we’ll have to see how successful they will be against firms that can out-lobby and legally out-gun them many times over.

BTW, if you go to any of the rallies, you’ll never see anyone saying that taxes on Joe Sixpack need to be raised. In every case I’ve ever seen, it is clearly Wall Street (and associates) who are held responsible, and from whom union workers demand reparations.

[CA renter]

[quote=Vod-Vil]The Democratic party runs California.If they really believe that Banks,Wall Street and Corporations don’t pay their fair share,WHY AREN’T THEY TRYING TO RAISE TAXES ON THE RICH?

Instead of going after tax loopholes for the bankers,they’re pushing for 5 more years of SALES TAX AND CAR TAX increases,which directly impact the working man.[/quote]

You are absolutely right…their first priority should be a reversal of the wealth extraction that has been going on for the past ~30 years. The pension funds ARE trying to sue certain financial institutions for losses, but we’ll have to see how successful they will be against firms that can out-lobby and legally out-gun them many times over.

BTW, if you go to any of the rallies, you’ll never see anyone saying that taxes on Joe Sixpack need to be raised. In every case I’ve ever seen, it is clearly Wall Street (and associates) who are held responsible, and from whom union workers demand reparations.

[blahblahblah]

This thread is a perfect example of why nothing will change or get better. Look at how people who should all be on the same side are so easily pitted against one another. It is classic divide&conquer and it works every time. Here is the playbook for those that missed it the first time:

1) Declare war on private sector employees using insourcing/outsourcing, elimination of benefits/pensions, etc…

2) Private sector employees quit watching the Super Bowl/Dancing With The Stars on their 60″ flatscreens long enough to notice that they are being screwed. Looking for answers, they switch to Fox News where Glenn Beck tells them that it’s all the fault of greedy public sector workers and unions. They still have benefits and pensions — those greedy bastards!

3) The private sector people start screaming for blood from their public sector counterparts. Much anger and vitriol is released. Politicians move in to establish a consensus – public sector workers will get ass-raped just like their private sector neighbors. Now everyone is equally screwed.

As for the silly comments that there is no difference between some crooked unions shaking someone down for tens of millions and hedge funds and bankers ass-raping the entire country to the tune of trillions, these are orders of magnitude apart. Once you stop handing the country over to the financial interests, once you stop the bleeding, THEN you can deal with the crooked unions. Again, when a bear has got your leg in its mouth, you’d better reach for the axe. Sure those mosquitoes are annoying but wait until the bear is dead before trying to reach the Off spray.

Nothing is going to change. The sheepdogs will keep barking and the sheep will go whatever direction they want them to.

[blahblahblah]

This thread is a perfect example of why nothing will change or get better. Look at how people who should all be on the same side are so easily pitted against one another. It is classic divide&conquer and it works every time. Here is the playbook for those that missed it the first time:

1) Declare war on private sector employees using insourcing/outsourcing, elimination of benefits/pensions, etc…

2) Private sector employees quit watching the Super Bowl/Dancing With The Stars on their 60″ flatscreens long enough to notice that they are being screwed. Looking for answers, they switch to Fox News where Glenn Beck tells them that it’s all the fault of greedy public sector workers and unions. They still have benefits and pensions — those greedy bastards!

3) The private sector people start screaming for blood from their public sector counterparts. Much anger and vitriol is released. Politicians move in to establish a consensus – public sector workers will get ass-raped just like their private sector neighbors. Now everyone is equally screwed.

As for the silly comments that there is no difference between some crooked unions shaking someone down for tens of millions and hedge funds and bankers ass-raping the entire country to the tune of trillions, these are orders of magnitude apart. Once you stop handing the country over to the financial interests, once you stop the bleeding, THEN you can deal with the crooked unions. Again, when a bear has got your leg in its mouth, you’d better reach for the axe. Sure those mosquitoes are annoying but wait until the bear is dead before trying to reach the Off spray.

Nothing is going to change. The sheepdogs will keep barking and the sheep will go whatever direction they want them to.

[blahblahblah]

This thread is a perfect example of why nothing will change or get better. Look at how people who should all be on the same side are so easily pitted against one another. It is classic divide&conquer and it works every time. Here is the playbook for those that missed it the first time:

1) Declare war on private sector employees using insourcing/outsourcing, elimination of benefits/pensions, etc…

2) Private sector employees quit watching the Super Bowl/Dancing With The Stars on their 60″ flatscreens long enough to notice that they are being screwed. Looking for answers, they switch to Fox News where Glenn Beck tells them that it’s all the fault of greedy public sector workers and unions. They still have benefits and pensions — those greedy bastards!

3) The private sector people start screaming for blood from their public sector counterparts. Much anger and vitriol is released. Politicians move in to establish a consensus – public sector workers will get ass-raped just like their private sector neighbors. Now everyone is equally screwed.

As for the silly comments that there is no difference between some crooked unions shaking someone down for tens of millions and hedge funds and bankers ass-raping the entire country to the tune of trillions, these are orders of magnitude apart. Once you stop handing the country over to the financial interests, once you stop the bleeding, THEN you can deal with the crooked unions. Again, when a bear has got your leg in its mouth, you’d better reach for the axe. Sure those mosquitoes are annoying but wait until the bear is dead before trying to reach the Off spray.

Nothing is going to change. The sheepdogs will keep barking and the sheep will go whatever direction they want them to.

[blahblahblah]

This thread is a perfect example of why nothing will change or get better. Look at how people who should all be on the same side are so easily pitted against one another. It is classic divide&conquer and it works every time. Here is the playbook for those that missed it the first time:

1) Declare war on private sector employees using insourcing/outsourcing, elimination of benefits/pensions, etc…

2) Private sector employees quit watching the Super Bowl/Dancing With The Stars on their 60″ flatscreens long enough to notice that they are being screwed. Looking for answers, they switch to Fox News where Glenn Beck tells them that it’s all the fault of greedy public sector workers and unions. They still have benefits and pensions — those greedy bastards!

3) The private sector people start screaming for blood from their public sector counterparts. Much anger and vitriol is released. Politicians move in to establish a consensus – public sector workers will get ass-raped just like their private sector neighbors. Now everyone is equally screwed.

As for the silly comments that there is no difference between some crooked unions shaking someone down for tens of millions and hedge funds and bankers ass-raping the entire country to the tune of trillions, these are orders of magnitude apart. Once you stop handing the country over to the financial interests, once you stop the bleeding, THEN you can deal with the crooked unions. Again, when a bear has got your leg in its mouth, you’d better reach for the axe. Sure those mosquitoes are annoying but wait until the bear is dead before trying to reach the Off spray.

Nothing is going to change. The sheepdogs will keep barking and the sheep will go whatever direction they want them to.

[Author]

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