North park flips… relatistic prices?

[jpinpb]

[quote=SD Realtor]JP not true at all. The appraisals and BPOs use the sales off the MLS. Flippers dont buy from flippers. They are buyers not flippers. [/quote]

In the case of Villa Terrace, it was a bank owned listing and a flipper bought it and now flipping. Even the one on Texas was not bought on the steps. These were places on the market that were bought, IMO, as a high priced fixer and now being flipped even higher. Well higher than what I think is reasonable. The flippers are setting the prices when they sell higher.

The last on Felton was a courthouse steps property, I believe. If he/she/they actually sell for over 200k profit, I don’t consider that a slim profit margin and it is manipulating the appraisal comps for future properties.

As far as the guys on the courthouse steps buying that are intending to flip, I’d have to agree that you’re helping to circulate inventory, but it is changing the comps upwards.

Now the banks can comfortably release inventory gradually b/c the flippers are helping to increase the price.

I do think there are plenty of buyers flipping. I think there is quite a bit of competition on the courthouse steps and even for the ones that are fixer REOs on the market. I can dig up others besides the 2 or 3. These were just recent ones, but there are plenty others before this thread was started.

[pemeliza]

“The last on Felton was a courthouse steps property, I believe. If he/she/they actually sell for over 200k profit, I don’t consider that a slim profit margin and it is manipulating the appraisal comps for future properties.”

I think I see your frustration now JP. For whatever reason buyers so desperately want a “turnkey” property that they will pay way over what you think is reasonable because you know as well as anyone else who has ever done any remodel work knows what the 2k granite countertops and 2k GE stainless appliance packages are actually worth. Thus you are pricing in say a 20k-30k premium above wholesale price given the cost of the “upgrades” and are stunned to see the houses sell for 150-200k over that instead. I think what you might be overlooking is that apparently there is a huge market in these older areas for “turnkey” products and thus they tend to a sell at a premium above and beyond the wholesale value of the upgrades. In other words, the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. People are basically paying for convenience.

I think the solution is to simply ignore flipper properties and focus on finding a motivated seller with a great location and great bones. If my theory is correct you will not need to compete with buyers looking for “turnkey” properties and thus you should be able to score the kind of deal you are looking for. As a qualified buyer you are in charge of how much you offer and pay. If they seller wants to sell and you are they only game in town they have to come to you. Of course, you will have to pay more than the flipper that is buying on the steps because you are not paying cash. However, I think that there is a reasonable “middle ground” and you can probably find plenty of deals that while not the steals the flippers are getting will suit you well and further I think if you look hard enough you can score a deal 30-50% under peak pricing if you keep at it and don’t get frustrated seeing what the “cash” buyers are paying.

In a way, the flippers are actually helping you and CAR because they are essentially eliminating a lot of your buyer competition by feeding the need of the “turnkey” buyer. If there were no flippers to fill this need, then everyone would have to buy a fixer and you would be competing with a lot more buyers to get that jewel in the bluff.

[pemeliza]

“The last on Felton was a courthouse steps property, I believe. If he/she/they actually sell for over 200k profit, I don’t consider that a slim profit margin and it is manipulating the appraisal comps for future properties.”

I think I see your frustration now JP. For whatever reason buyers so desperately want a “turnkey” property that they will pay way over what you think is reasonable because you know as well as anyone else who has ever done any remodel work knows what the 2k granite countertops and 2k GE stainless appliance packages are actually worth. Thus you are pricing in say a 20k-30k premium above wholesale price given the cost of the “upgrades” and are stunned to see the houses sell for 150-200k over that instead. I think what you might be overlooking is that apparently there is a huge market in these older areas for “turnkey” products and thus they tend to a sell at a premium above and beyond the wholesale value of the upgrades. In other words, the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. People are basically paying for convenience.

I think the solution is to simply ignore flipper properties and focus on finding a motivated seller with a great location and great bones. If my theory is correct you will not need to compete with buyers looking for “turnkey” properties and thus you should be able to score the kind of deal you are looking for. As a qualified buyer you are in charge of how much you offer and pay. If they seller wants to sell and you are they only game in town they have to come to you. Of course, you will have to pay more than the flipper that is buying on the steps because you are not paying cash. However, I think that there is a reasonable “middle ground” and you can probably find plenty of deals that while not the steals the flippers are getting will suit you well and further I think if you look hard enough you can score a deal 30-50% under peak pricing if you keep at it and don’t get frustrated seeing what the “cash” buyers are paying.

In a way, the flippers are actually helping you and CAR because they are essentially eliminating a lot of your buyer competition by feeding the need of the “turnkey” buyer. If there were no flippers to fill this need, then everyone would have to buy a fixer and you would be competing with a lot more buyers to get that jewel in the bluff.

[pemeliza]

“The last on Felton was a courthouse steps property, I believe. If he/she/they actually sell for over 200k profit, I don’t consider that a slim profit margin and it is manipulating the appraisal comps for future properties.”

I think I see your frustration now JP. For whatever reason buyers so desperately want a “turnkey” property that they will pay way over what you think is reasonable because you know as well as anyone else who has ever done any remodel work knows what the 2k granite countertops and 2k GE stainless appliance packages are actually worth. Thus you are pricing in say a 20k-30k premium above wholesale price given the cost of the “upgrades” and are stunned to see the houses sell for 150-200k over that instead. I think what you might be overlooking is that apparently there is a huge market in these older areas for “turnkey” products and thus they tend to a sell at a premium above and beyond the wholesale value of the upgrades. In other words, the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. People are basically paying for convenience.

I think the solution is to simply ignore flipper properties and focus on finding a motivated seller with a great location and great bones. If my theory is correct you will not need to compete with buyers looking for “turnkey” properties and thus you should be able to score the kind of deal you are looking for. As a qualified buyer you are in charge of how much you offer and pay. If they seller wants to sell and you are they only game in town they have to come to you. Of course, you will have to pay more than the flipper that is buying on the steps because you are not paying cash. However, I think that there is a reasonable “middle ground” and you can probably find plenty of deals that while not the steals the flippers are getting will suit you well and further I think if you look hard enough you can score a deal 30-50% under peak pricing if you keep at it and don’t get frustrated seeing what the “cash” buyers are paying.

In a way, the flippers are actually helping you and CAR because they are essentially eliminating a lot of your buyer competition by feeding the need of the “turnkey” buyer. If there were no flippers to fill this need, then everyone would have to buy a fixer and you would be competing with a lot more buyers to get that jewel in the bluff.

[pemeliza]

“The last on Felton was a courthouse steps property, I believe. If he/she/they actually sell for over 200k profit, I don’t consider that a slim profit margin and it is manipulating the appraisal comps for future properties.”

I think I see your frustration now JP. For whatever reason buyers so desperately want a “turnkey” property that they will pay way over what you think is reasonable because you know as well as anyone else who has ever done any remodel work knows what the 2k granite countertops and 2k GE stainless appliance packages are actually worth. Thus you are pricing in say a 20k-30k premium above wholesale price given the cost of the “upgrades” and are stunned to see the houses sell for 150-200k over that instead. I think what you might be overlooking is that apparently there is a huge market in these older areas for “turnkey” products and thus they tend to a sell at a premium above and beyond the wholesale value of the upgrades. In other words, the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. People are basically paying for convenience.

I think the solution is to simply ignore flipper properties and focus on finding a motivated seller with a great location and great bones. If my theory is correct you will not need to compete with buyers looking for “turnkey” properties and thus you should be able to score the kind of deal you are looking for. As a qualified buyer you are in charge of how much you offer and pay. If they seller wants to sell and you are they only game in town they have to come to you. Of course, you will have to pay more than the flipper that is buying on the steps because you are not paying cash. However, I think that there is a reasonable “middle ground” and you can probably find plenty of deals that while not the steals the flippers are getting will suit you well and further I think if you look hard enough you can score a deal 30-50% under peak pricing if you keep at it and don’t get frustrated seeing what the “cash” buyers are paying.

In a way, the flippers are actually helping you and CAR because they are essentially eliminating a lot of your buyer competition by feeding the need of the “turnkey” buyer. If there were no flippers to fill this need, then everyone would have to buy a fixer and you would be competing with a lot more buyers to get that jewel in the bluff.

[pemeliza]

“The last on Felton was a courthouse steps property, I believe. If he/she/they actually sell for over 200k profit, I don’t consider that a slim profit margin and it is manipulating the appraisal comps for future properties.”

I think I see your frustration now JP. For whatever reason buyers so desperately want a “turnkey” property that they will pay way over what you think is reasonable because you know as well as anyone else who has ever done any remodel work knows what the 2k granite countertops and 2k GE stainless appliance packages are actually worth. Thus you are pricing in say a 20k-30k premium above wholesale price given the cost of the “upgrades” and are stunned to see the houses sell for 150-200k over that instead. I think what you might be overlooking is that apparently there is a huge market in these older areas for “turnkey” products and thus they tend to a sell at a premium above and beyond the wholesale value of the upgrades. In other words, the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. People are basically paying for convenience.

I think the solution is to simply ignore flipper properties and focus on finding a motivated seller with a great location and great bones. If my theory is correct you will not need to compete with buyers looking for “turnkey” properties and thus you should be able to score the kind of deal you are looking for. As a qualified buyer you are in charge of how much you offer and pay. If they seller wants to sell and you are they only game in town they have to come to you. Of course, you will have to pay more than the flipper that is buying on the steps because you are not paying cash. However, I think that there is a reasonable “middle ground” and you can probably find plenty of deals that while not the steals the flippers are getting will suit you well and further I think if you look hard enough you can score a deal 30-50% under peak pricing if you keep at it and don’t get frustrated seeing what the “cash” buyers are paying.

In a way, the flippers are actually helping you and CAR because they are essentially eliminating a lot of your buyer competition by feeding the need of the “turnkey” buyer. If there were no flippers to fill this need, then everyone would have to buy a fixer and you would be competing with a lot more buyers to get that jewel in the bluff.

[jpinpb]

[quote=pemeliza]
I think the solution is to simply ignore flipper properties and focus on finding a motivated seller with a great location and great bones. [/quote]

Thank you, pemeliza. When you add in government intervention and buyers willing to pay a premium, the end result is higher priced comps. That reduces my buying power. But it would be great to find something suitable in my price range for 30-50% off peak. Seems like a dream. They go quick. Pocket listings or cash seem to grab them.

[jpinpb]

[quote=pemeliza]
I think the solution is to simply ignore flipper properties and focus on finding a motivated seller with a great location and great bones. [/quote]

Thank you, pemeliza. When you add in government intervention and buyers willing to pay a premium, the end result is higher priced comps. That reduces my buying power. But it would be great to find something suitable in my price range for 30-50% off peak. Seems like a dream. They go quick. Pocket listings or cash seem to grab them.

[jpinpb]

[quote=pemeliza]
I think the solution is to simply ignore flipper properties and focus on finding a motivated seller with a great location and great bones. [/quote]

Thank you, pemeliza. When you add in government intervention and buyers willing to pay a premium, the end result is higher priced comps. That reduces my buying power. But it would be great to find something suitable in my price range for 30-50% off peak. Seems like a dream. They go quick. Pocket listings or cash seem to grab them.

[jpinpb]

[quote=pemeliza]
I think the solution is to simply ignore flipper properties and focus on finding a motivated seller with a great location and great bones. [/quote]

Thank you, pemeliza. When you add in government intervention and buyers willing to pay a premium, the end result is higher priced comps. That reduces my buying power. But it would be great to find something suitable in my price range for 30-50% off peak. Seems like a dream. They go quick. Pocket listings or cash seem to grab them.

[jpinpb]

[quote=pemeliza]
I think the solution is to simply ignore flipper properties and focus on finding a motivated seller with a great location and great bones. [/quote]

Thank you, pemeliza. When you add in government intervention and buyers willing to pay a premium, the end result is higher priced comps. That reduces my buying power. But it would be great to find something suitable in my price range for 30-50% off peak. Seems like a dream. They go quick. Pocket listings or cash seem to grab them.

[jpinpb]

Ok. I came across one today from back when. Hesitant to post here b/c it’s not North Park and I don’t want thread hijack, but here it goes anyway.

3066 Driscoll. Lots to be upset about on this one, not just the flippers.

Was first listed in December of 2007 for 925k. Still riding on that bubble wave, completely clueless and not even aware the peak was gone, so listed even above the peak pricing.

NODs get filed on a 2006 loan and later a 2007 loan. Yes. As late as 2007 a lender gives them a loan for 736k.

The market is dictating the sales price. It’s not moving even when reduced to 625k. Meanwhile, the owners have not paid on their mortage, so living for free, and the banks have their bailout. The ultimate welfare.

Finally goes to the courthouse steps and sells for probably what I think should be FMV, 535k . Does it go to an owner? Nope.

Flipper slaps some paint and new carpet. How much does that cost? Lists it for 632k.

Meanwhile, government incentive of 8k and 10k. I hear it’s got an accepted offer at 615k.

Is the comp for the area now 535k or 615k?

If (probably) the bank has another property in the area, are they going to release it and/or sell it for 535k or 615k?

If a flipper didn’t pick it up on the steps, it’s possible it could’ve been on the market for 535k.

[jpinpb]

Ok. I came across one today from back when. Hesitant to post here b/c it’s not North Park and I don’t want thread hijack, but here it goes anyway.

3066 Driscoll. Lots to be upset about on this one, not just the flippers.

Was first listed in December of 2007 for 925k. Still riding on that bubble wave, completely clueless and not even aware the peak was gone, so listed even above the peak pricing.

NODs get filed on a 2006 loan and later a 2007 loan. Yes. As late as 2007 a lender gives them a loan for 736k.

The market is dictating the sales price. It’s not moving even when reduced to 625k. Meanwhile, the owners have not paid on their mortage, so living for free, and the banks have their bailout. The ultimate welfare.

Finally goes to the courthouse steps and sells for probably what I think should be FMV, 535k . Does it go to an owner? Nope.

Flipper slaps some paint and new carpet. How much does that cost? Lists it for 632k.

Meanwhile, government incentive of 8k and 10k. I hear it’s got an accepted offer at 615k.

Is the comp for the area now 535k or 615k?

If (probably) the bank has another property in the area, are they going to release it and/or sell it for 535k or 615k?

If a flipper didn’t pick it up on the steps, it’s possible it could’ve been on the market for 535k.

[jpinpb]

Ok. I came across one today from back when. Hesitant to post here b/c it’s not North Park and I don’t want thread hijack, but here it goes anyway.

3066 Driscoll. Lots to be upset about on this one, not just the flippers.

Was first listed in December of 2007 for 925k. Still riding on that bubble wave, completely clueless and not even aware the peak was gone, so listed even above the peak pricing.

NODs get filed on a 2006 loan and later a 2007 loan. Yes. As late as 2007 a lender gives them a loan for 736k.

The market is dictating the sales price. It’s not moving even when reduced to 625k. Meanwhile, the owners have not paid on their mortage, so living for free, and the banks have their bailout. The ultimate welfare.

Finally goes to the courthouse steps and sells for probably what I think should be FMV, 535k . Does it go to an owner? Nope.

Flipper slaps some paint and new carpet. How much does that cost? Lists it for 632k.

Meanwhile, government incentive of 8k and 10k. I hear it’s got an accepted offer at 615k.

Is the comp for the area now 535k or 615k?

If (probably) the bank has another property in the area, are they going to release it and/or sell it for 535k or 615k?

If a flipper didn’t pick it up on the steps, it’s possible it could’ve been on the market for 535k.

[jpinpb]

Ok. I came across one today from back when. Hesitant to post here b/c it’s not North Park and I don’t want thread hijack, but here it goes anyway.

3066 Driscoll. Lots to be upset about on this one, not just the flippers.

Was first listed in December of 2007 for 925k. Still riding on that bubble wave, completely clueless and not even aware the peak was gone, so listed even above the peak pricing.

NODs get filed on a 2006 loan and later a 2007 loan. Yes. As late as 2007 a lender gives them a loan for 736k.

The market is dictating the sales price. It’s not moving even when reduced to 625k. Meanwhile, the owners have not paid on their mortage, so living for free, and the banks have their bailout. The ultimate welfare.

Finally goes to the courthouse steps and sells for probably what I think should be FMV, 535k . Does it go to an owner? Nope.

Flipper slaps some paint and new carpet. How much does that cost? Lists it for 632k.

Meanwhile, government incentive of 8k and 10k. I hear it’s got an accepted offer at 615k.

Is the comp for the area now 535k or 615k?

If (probably) the bank has another property in the area, are they going to release it and/or sell it for 535k or 615k?

If a flipper didn’t pick it up on the steps, it’s possible it could’ve been on the market for 535k.

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