Naomi Wolf: The End of America

[Ricechex]

Hi Piggs,
I know this is off topic, but I think it is a must watch. From reading the various opinions on this board, some of you will agree with her hypotheses about our present course, and some of you won’t. Either way, it would be interesting to hear your feedback.

I am concerned that a Dem in the White House will give Americans a fresh set of new faces, and they will think all troubles are behind them, not realizing that the damage caused is already a done deal.

It is 47 minutes long, but I am convinced that Piggs have the ability to focus longer than the usual 1 minute ADHD American watching tabloid TV.

[partypup]

“I am concerned that a Dem in the White House will give Americans a fresh set of new faces, and they will think all troubles are behind them, not realizing that the damage caused is already a done deal.”

That’s true, which is why the hoopla over Obama is particularly annoying. That man won’t — and can’t — change a thing. We are on course to hit a slew of icebergs, and no President can change that outcome at this point. Obama can’t “undo” the housing bubble, or the credit crisis, or the dollar’s death spiral. As you say, the damage has already been done.

But more importantly, I’m not sure either party is particularly invested in changing our course. I’ve got a scarier proposition for you: the Dems and the GOP are merely two factions of the same group with the same ultimate goal: reduction of the middle class to a cheap labor force that will allow us to compete globally andto “survive”. The two parties just have slightly different ways of going about it: the GOP is content to haul us out to the shed and clobber us over the head with a blunt instrument before shipping us off to slaughter, whereas the Dems would invite us into the house to and offer us a drink laced with slow-acting poison…in the end, we’ll die either way. *Sigh* Because American politics today are all about the illusion of choice = hope = the ability to manipulate/lead. Once the populace realizes that hope is a pipe dream, they will grow restless and seek change outside of the political process. This is the worst nightmare for both the Dems and the GOP.

Don’t you find it odd that our so-called Democrat-controlled Congress — in particular, our professed “Fighters of Freedom” (this would include Obama, Clinton, Pelosi and the other usual suspects) — have not made any efforts to eliminate or at least curtail the Patriot Act? Or that they have rubber-stamped all funding for the war? They parties grandstand and make a big deal as they “bicker” over the issues, but the truth is that the rank and file always end up with the short end of the stick on the major issues and score a few hollow victories on the minor ones.

I feel like I’m trapped in the Matrix with a hoardes of drones who refuse to unplug themselves. Wake up, everyone. The only way out of this is revolution. Everything else is B.S.

[Ricechex]

“I feel like I’m trapped in the Matrix with a hoardes of drones who refuse to unplug themselves. Wake up, everyone.”

Yeah, me too. Sometimes I wonder what is REAL and what isn’t. Because the reality is overwhelming.

Some months ago, the administration made “Animal Activism” criminal activity! I remember this happenning and just about fell over. Ms. Wolf addresses this in her presentation. Environmental Activists are next. I am very very frightened for all of us.

Here is something else to watch. Unfortunately, this film comes off with a propaganda sci-fi flair which damages its credibility, and makes the hypotheses look like it comes from some Timothy McVeigh crackpots in the midwest.

However, if you can get beyond that, there are some VERY salient points. It is 2 hours long and wouldn’t fit on my screen, but you can download it for FREE and WITHOUT REGISTERING YOUR EMAIL.

People need to know about the World Bank and New World Order, cause it is HERE.

http://zeitgeistmovie.com/

[Ricechex]

“I feel like I’m trapped in the Matrix with a hoardes of drones who refuse to unplug themselves. Wake up, everyone.”

Yeah, me too. Sometimes I wonder what is REAL and what isn’t. Because the reality is overwhelming.

Some months ago, the administration made “Animal Activism” criminal activity! I remember this happenning and just about fell over. Ms. Wolf addresses this in her presentation. Environmental Activists are next. I am very very frightened for all of us.

Here is something else to watch. Unfortunately, this film comes off with a propaganda sci-fi flair which damages its credibility, and makes the hypotheses look like it comes from some Timothy McVeigh crackpots in the midwest.

However, if you can get beyond that, there are some VERY salient points. It is 2 hours long and wouldn’t fit on my screen, but you can download it for FREE and WITHOUT REGISTERING YOUR EMAIL.

People need to know about the World Bank and New World Order, cause it is HERE.

http://zeitgeistmovie.com/

[Ricechex]

“I feel like I’m trapped in the Matrix with a hoardes of drones who refuse to unplug themselves. Wake up, everyone.”

Yeah, me too. Sometimes I wonder what is REAL and what isn’t. Because the reality is overwhelming.

Some months ago, the administration made “Animal Activism” criminal activity! I remember this happenning and just about fell over. Ms. Wolf addresses this in her presentation. Environmental Activists are next. I am very very frightened for all of us.

Here is something else to watch. Unfortunately, this film comes off with a propaganda sci-fi flair which damages its credibility, and makes the hypotheses look like it comes from some Timothy McVeigh crackpots in the midwest.

However, if you can get beyond that, there are some VERY salient points. It is 2 hours long and wouldn’t fit on my screen, but you can download it for FREE and WITHOUT REGISTERING YOUR EMAIL.

People need to know about the World Bank and New World Order, cause it is HERE.

http://zeitgeistmovie.com/

[Ricechex]

“I feel like I’m trapped in the Matrix with a hoardes of drones who refuse to unplug themselves. Wake up, everyone.”

Yeah, me too. Sometimes I wonder what is REAL and what isn’t. Because the reality is overwhelming.

Some months ago, the administration made “Animal Activism” criminal activity! I remember this happenning and just about fell over. Ms. Wolf addresses this in her presentation. Environmental Activists are next. I am very very frightened for all of us.

Here is something else to watch. Unfortunately, this film comes off with a propaganda sci-fi flair which damages its credibility, and makes the hypotheses look like it comes from some Timothy McVeigh crackpots in the midwest.

However, if you can get beyond that, there are some VERY salient points. It is 2 hours long and wouldn’t fit on my screen, but you can download it for FREE and WITHOUT REGISTERING YOUR EMAIL.

People need to know about the World Bank and New World Order, cause it is HERE.

http://zeitgeistmovie.com/

[Ricechex]

“I feel like I’m trapped in the Matrix with a hoardes of drones who refuse to unplug themselves. Wake up, everyone.”

Yeah, me too. Sometimes I wonder what is REAL and what isn’t. Because the reality is overwhelming.

Some months ago, the administration made “Animal Activism” criminal activity! I remember this happenning and just about fell over. Ms. Wolf addresses this in her presentation. Environmental Activists are next. I am very very frightened for all of us.

Here is something else to watch. Unfortunately, this film comes off with a propaganda sci-fi flair which damages its credibility, and makes the hypotheses look like it comes from some Timothy McVeigh crackpots in the midwest.

However, if you can get beyond that, there are some VERY salient points. It is 2 hours long and wouldn’t fit on my screen, but you can download it for FREE and WITHOUT REGISTERING YOUR EMAIL.

People need to know about the World Bank and New World Order, cause it is HERE.

http://zeitgeistmovie.com/

[zk]

partypup:I feel like I’m trapped in the Matrix with a hoardes of drones who refuse to unplug themselves. Wake up, everyone. The only way out of this is revolution. Everything else is B.S.

So are you planning a revolution, then?

[svelte]

Dogs and cats, living together, MASS HYSTERIA!!!
– Peter Venkman, Ghostbusters

Yes every decade or so there seems to be those who think the world is going to hell in a handbasket and will end tomorrow (Heaven’s Gate, anyone?)

This country will get through all this crap and no we’re not going to pick a perfect next president because there IS no perfect next president. Trust that our forefathers put together a framework that, while things get out of whack for awhile, takes into account enough different perspectives that we always come back to center. Then overshoot!! ha

[svelte]

Dogs and cats, living together, MASS HYSTERIA!!!
– Peter Venkman, Ghostbusters

Yes every decade or so there seems to be those who think the world is going to hell in a handbasket and will end tomorrow (Heaven’s Gate, anyone?)

This country will get through all this crap and no we’re not going to pick a perfect next president because there IS no perfect next president. Trust that our forefathers put together a framework that, while things get out of whack for awhile, takes into account enough different perspectives that we always come back to center. Then overshoot!! ha

[svelte]

Dogs and cats, living together, MASS HYSTERIA!!!
– Peter Venkman, Ghostbusters

Yes every decade or so there seems to be those who think the world is going to hell in a handbasket and will end tomorrow (Heaven’s Gate, anyone?)

This country will get through all this crap and no we’re not going to pick a perfect next president because there IS no perfect next president. Trust that our forefathers put together a framework that, while things get out of whack for awhile, takes into account enough different perspectives that we always come back to center. Then overshoot!! ha

[svelte]

Dogs and cats, living together, MASS HYSTERIA!!!
– Peter Venkman, Ghostbusters

Yes every decade or so there seems to be those who think the world is going to hell in a handbasket and will end tomorrow (Heaven’s Gate, anyone?)

This country will get through all this crap and no we’re not going to pick a perfect next president because there IS no perfect next president. Trust that our forefathers put together a framework that, while things get out of whack for awhile, takes into account enough different perspectives that we always come back to center. Then overshoot!! ha

[svelte]

Dogs and cats, living together, MASS HYSTERIA!!!
– Peter Venkman, Ghostbusters

Yes every decade or so there seems to be those who think the world is going to hell in a handbasket and will end tomorrow (Heaven’s Gate, anyone?)

This country will get through all this crap and no we’re not going to pick a perfect next president because there IS no perfect next president. Trust that our forefathers put together a framework that, while things get out of whack for awhile, takes into account enough different perspectives that we always come back to center. Then overshoot!! ha

[NotCranky]

partypupX, American middle class meets the black panthers.
I hate the poor middle class stuff …propping up our middle class and forever pandering to them(us) to stay elected has been part of the problem. Everything is fine in the world as long as I can buy a McMansion, drive two suv’s, have the biggest and best TV and my estate doesn’t get taxed when I die.

No RustcioX will not be starting any revolutions. What the hell good would it do? I did intend to make a protest vote and go with Ron Paul when he gets here. 50/50 possibility he won’t be in the race in February.

[NotCranky]

partypupX, American middle class meets the black panthers.
I hate the poor middle class stuff …propping up our middle class and forever pandering to them(us) to stay elected has been part of the problem. Everything is fine in the world as long as I can buy a McMansion, drive two suv’s, have the biggest and best TV and my estate doesn’t get taxed when I die.

No RustcioX will not be starting any revolutions. What the hell good would it do? I did intend to make a protest vote and go with Ron Paul when he gets here. 50/50 possibility he won’t be in the race in February.

[NotCranky]

partypupX, American middle class meets the black panthers.
I hate the poor middle class stuff …propping up our middle class and forever pandering to them(us) to stay elected has been part of the problem. Everything is fine in the world as long as I can buy a McMansion, drive two suv’s, have the biggest and best TV and my estate doesn’t get taxed when I die.

No RustcioX will not be starting any revolutions. What the hell good would it do? I did intend to make a protest vote and go with Ron Paul when he gets here. 50/50 possibility he won’t be in the race in February.

[NotCranky]

partypupX, American middle class meets the black panthers.
I hate the poor middle class stuff …propping up our middle class and forever pandering to them(us) to stay elected has been part of the problem. Everything is fine in the world as long as I can buy a McMansion, drive two suv’s, have the biggest and best TV and my estate doesn’t get taxed when I die.

No RustcioX will not be starting any revolutions. What the hell good would it do? I did intend to make a protest vote and go with Ron Paul when he gets here. 50/50 possibility he won’t be in the race in February.

[NotCranky]

partypupX, American middle class meets the black panthers.
I hate the poor middle class stuff …propping up our middle class and forever pandering to them(us) to stay elected has been part of the problem. Everything is fine in the world as long as I can buy a McMansion, drive two suv’s, have the biggest and best TV and my estate doesn’t get taxed when I die.

No RustcioX will not be starting any revolutions. What the hell good would it do? I did intend to make a protest vote and go with Ron Paul when he gets here. 50/50 possibility he won’t be in the race in February.

[zk]

partypup:I feel like I’m trapped in the Matrix with a hoardes of drones who refuse to unplug themselves. Wake up, everyone. The only way out of this is revolution. Everything else is B.S.

So are you planning a revolution, then?

[zk]

partypup:I feel like I’m trapped in the Matrix with a hoardes of drones who refuse to unplug themselves. Wake up, everyone. The only way out of this is revolution. Everything else is B.S.

So are you planning a revolution, then?

[zk]

partypup:I feel like I’m trapped in the Matrix with a hoardes of drones who refuse to unplug themselves. Wake up, everyone. The only way out of this is revolution. Everything else is B.S.

So are you planning a revolution, then?

[zk]

partypup:I feel like I’m trapped in the Matrix with a hoardes of drones who refuse to unplug themselves. Wake up, everyone. The only way out of this is revolution. Everything else is B.S.

So are you planning a revolution, then?

[partypup]

“I am concerned that a Dem in the White House will give Americans a fresh set of new faces, and they will think all troubles are behind them, not realizing that the damage caused is already a done deal.”

That’s true, which is why the hoopla over Obama is particularly annoying. That man won’t — and can’t — change a thing. We are on course to hit a slew of icebergs, and no President can change that outcome at this point. Obama can’t “undo” the housing bubble, or the credit crisis, or the dollar’s death spiral. As you say, the damage has already been done.

But more importantly, I’m not sure either party is particularly invested in changing our course. I’ve got a scarier proposition for you: the Dems and the GOP are merely two factions of the same group with the same ultimate goal: reduction of the middle class to a cheap labor force that will allow us to compete globally andto “survive”. The two parties just have slightly different ways of going about it: the GOP is content to haul us out to the shed and clobber us over the head with a blunt instrument before shipping us off to slaughter, whereas the Dems would invite us into the house to and offer us a drink laced with slow-acting poison…in the end, we’ll die either way. *Sigh* Because American politics today are all about the illusion of choice = hope = the ability to manipulate/lead. Once the populace realizes that hope is a pipe dream, they will grow restless and seek change outside of the political process. This is the worst nightmare for both the Dems and the GOP.

Don’t you find it odd that our so-called Democrat-controlled Congress — in particular, our professed “Fighters of Freedom” (this would include Obama, Clinton, Pelosi and the other usual suspects) — have not made any efforts to eliminate or at least curtail the Patriot Act? Or that they have rubber-stamped all funding for the war? They parties grandstand and make a big deal as they “bicker” over the issues, but the truth is that the rank and file always end up with the short end of the stick on the major issues and score a few hollow victories on the minor ones.

I feel like I’m trapped in the Matrix with a hoardes of drones who refuse to unplug themselves. Wake up, everyone. The only way out of this is revolution. Everything else is B.S.

[partypup]

“I am concerned that a Dem in the White House will give Americans a fresh set of new faces, and they will think all troubles are behind them, not realizing that the damage caused is already a done deal.”

That’s true, which is why the hoopla over Obama is particularly annoying. That man won’t — and can’t — change a thing. We are on course to hit a slew of icebergs, and no President can change that outcome at this point. Obama can’t “undo” the housing bubble, or the credit crisis, or the dollar’s death spiral. As you say, the damage has already been done.

But more importantly, I’m not sure either party is particularly invested in changing our course. I’ve got a scarier proposition for you: the Dems and the GOP are merely two factions of the same group with the same ultimate goal: reduction of the middle class to a cheap labor force that will allow us to compete globally andto “survive”. The two parties just have slightly different ways of going about it: the GOP is content to haul us out to the shed and clobber us over the head with a blunt instrument before shipping us off to slaughter, whereas the Dems would invite us into the house to and offer us a drink laced with slow-acting poison…in the end, we’ll die either way. *Sigh* Because American politics today are all about the illusion of choice = hope = the ability to manipulate/lead. Once the populace realizes that hope is a pipe dream, they will grow restless and seek change outside of the political process. This is the worst nightmare for both the Dems and the GOP.

Don’t you find it odd that our so-called Democrat-controlled Congress — in particular, our professed “Fighters of Freedom” (this would include Obama, Clinton, Pelosi and the other usual suspects) — have not made any efforts to eliminate or at least curtail the Patriot Act? Or that they have rubber-stamped all funding for the war? They parties grandstand and make a big deal as they “bicker” over the issues, but the truth is that the rank and file always end up with the short end of the stick on the major issues and score a few hollow victories on the minor ones.

I feel like I’m trapped in the Matrix with a hoardes of drones who refuse to unplug themselves. Wake up, everyone. The only way out of this is revolution. Everything else is B.S.

[partypup]

“I am concerned that a Dem in the White House will give Americans a fresh set of new faces, and they will think all troubles are behind them, not realizing that the damage caused is already a done deal.”

That’s true, which is why the hoopla over Obama is particularly annoying. That man won’t — and can’t — change a thing. We are on course to hit a slew of icebergs, and no President can change that outcome at this point. Obama can’t “undo” the housing bubble, or the credit crisis, or the dollar’s death spiral. As you say, the damage has already been done.

But more importantly, I’m not sure either party is particularly invested in changing our course. I’ve got a scarier proposition for you: the Dems and the GOP are merely two factions of the same group with the same ultimate goal: reduction of the middle class to a cheap labor force that will allow us to compete globally andto “survive”. The two parties just have slightly different ways of going about it: the GOP is content to haul us out to the shed and clobber us over the head with a blunt instrument before shipping us off to slaughter, whereas the Dems would invite us into the house to and offer us a drink laced with slow-acting poison…in the end, we’ll die either way. *Sigh* Because American politics today are all about the illusion of choice = hope = the ability to manipulate/lead. Once the populace realizes that hope is a pipe dream, they will grow restless and seek change outside of the political process. This is the worst nightmare for both the Dems and the GOP.

Don’t you find it odd that our so-called Democrat-controlled Congress — in particular, our professed “Fighters of Freedom” (this would include Obama, Clinton, Pelosi and the other usual suspects) — have not made any efforts to eliminate or at least curtail the Patriot Act? Or that they have rubber-stamped all funding for the war? They parties grandstand and make a big deal as they “bicker” over the issues, but the truth is that the rank and file always end up with the short end of the stick on the major issues and score a few hollow victories on the minor ones.

I feel like I’m trapped in the Matrix with a hoardes of drones who refuse to unplug themselves. Wake up, everyone. The only way out of this is revolution. Everything else is B.S.

[partypup]

“I am concerned that a Dem in the White House will give Americans a fresh set of new faces, and they will think all troubles are behind them, not realizing that the damage caused is already a done deal.”

That’s true, which is why the hoopla over Obama is particularly annoying. That man won’t — and can’t — change a thing. We are on course to hit a slew of icebergs, and no President can change that outcome at this point. Obama can’t “undo” the housing bubble, or the credit crisis, or the dollar’s death spiral. As you say, the damage has already been done.

But more importantly, I’m not sure either party is particularly invested in changing our course. I’ve got a scarier proposition for you: the Dems and the GOP are merely two factions of the same group with the same ultimate goal: reduction of the middle class to a cheap labor force that will allow us to compete globally andto “survive”. The two parties just have slightly different ways of going about it: the GOP is content to haul us out to the shed and clobber us over the head with a blunt instrument before shipping us off to slaughter, whereas the Dems would invite us into the house to and offer us a drink laced with slow-acting poison…in the end, we’ll die either way. *Sigh* Because American politics today are all about the illusion of choice = hope = the ability to manipulate/lead. Once the populace realizes that hope is a pipe dream, they will grow restless and seek change outside of the political process. This is the worst nightmare for both the Dems and the GOP.

Don’t you find it odd that our so-called Democrat-controlled Congress — in particular, our professed “Fighters of Freedom” (this would include Obama, Clinton, Pelosi and the other usual suspects) — have not made any efforts to eliminate or at least curtail the Patriot Act? Or that they have rubber-stamped all funding for the war? They parties grandstand and make a big deal as they “bicker” over the issues, but the truth is that the rank and file always end up with the short end of the stick on the major issues and score a few hollow victories on the minor ones.

I feel like I’m trapped in the Matrix with a hoardes of drones who refuse to unplug themselves. Wake up, everyone. The only way out of this is revolution. Everything else is B.S.

[paramount]

Powerful – and very very scary.

One more reason to support Ron Paul.

That should be required viewing as well as Aaron Russo’s “From Freedom to Fascism.”

[Ricechex]

Thanks Paramount. I will order it. Unfortunately, the website also has that shouting propaganda look to it. Perhaps those of us fighting the New World Order need to get some better website designers and more Hollywood types to streamline the movies. Of course, that would mean more control by the Elite, so I guess we gotta work with what we have.

On the RFID card, we won’t see that in May. But, I work civil service, and they have it in place there. We have a CAC card, fingerprinted, scan bar…yup, we are product code (human capital is it?).

The internet is so restricted that you cannot even see JPGs on many websites. Even the Union Tribune website has the DOD warning message–bold print–to scare us. For awhile I got around the yahoo mail, by linking through foreign countries, but they locked that down too. It seems like every day, more and more is blocked, and NO I am not looking at porn, New World Order, or anything controversial. They even pulled the CD burning program, and sometimes I need those for power point presentations. Now, I gotta go to a supervisor.

I have 13 complex passwords (numbers, capital letters, lower case letters, symbols) for different websites I use throughout the year. These passwords must be changed every 60 days. And, I am a fairly mid/low level position without clearances, top secret stuff, blah blah.

[drunkle]

rice:

that was a pretty good rant… never be ashamed of drunken rants. at least, i never am. you shouldn’t have deleted it.

[34f3f3f]

Well here’s another drunken rant …and the good thing about them is you are never ashamed of them until it’s too late. I’m a great fan of Bill Bryson and I found this quote by Joseph Priestley, which was aimed at the ineptitudes of the English language, but nevertheless is relevant to many matters “…it is better to wait the decisions of time, which are slow and sure, than to take those of the synods, which are often hasty and injudicious.” We can substitute synod with change mongers.

[Arraya]

“Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it”

The Declaration of Indepenance

[bubba99]

Arraya,

The Declaration of Independance was written by a bunch of revolutionaries, and would be “illegal” under the Patriot Act.

That type of radical thought cannot be tolerated by the real protectors of our freedom, you know – every one who voted for the Patriot Act which gives us freedom by taking away our right to free speach, right to privacy, and right not to be wiretaped or searched without a court order. Oh yea, and the right to file a writ of habius corpus against unlawful detention – prison for life with no charges or trial.

[Arraya]

every one who voted for the Patriot Act which gives us freedom by taking away our right to free speach, right to privacy, and right not to be wiretaped or searched without a court order. Oh yea, and the right to file a writ of habius corpus against unlawful detention – prison for life with no charges or trial.”

I personally like the john warner defense act of 2006. The president can declare martial law in case of a “national emergency”.

When I see headlines like this “Iranian warship ‘harass’ US Navy”.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/01/07/iran.us.navy/index.html

My overly cynical, paranoid mind thinks “gulf of tokin II”. Then to add to the nightmere senerio, I see Bush and Co. Bomb Iran. Oil exports shut down from Iran and Venezuala cutting off 5 million barrels of oil a day off of the world market spiking prices to $400 a barrel causing shortages and economic mayhem. A perfect time to declare a national emergency creating dictator Bush for life. I could go on but you get the picture.

What would everybody do if martial law was delcared in america because it can be….?

[Arraya]

every one who voted for the Patriot Act which gives us freedom by taking away our right to free speach, right to privacy, and right not to be wiretaped or searched without a court order. Oh yea, and the right to file a writ of habius corpus against unlawful detention – prison for life with no charges or trial.”

I personally like the john warner defense act of 2006. The president can declare martial law in case of a “national emergency”.

When I see headlines like this “Iranian warship ‘harass’ US Navy”.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/01/07/iran.us.navy/index.html

My overly cynical, paranoid mind thinks “gulf of tokin II”. Then to add to the nightmere senerio, I see Bush and Co. Bomb Iran. Oil exports shut down from Iran and Venezuala cutting off 5 million barrels of oil a day off of the world market spiking prices to $400 a barrel causing shortages and economic mayhem. A perfect time to declare a national emergency creating dictator Bush for life. I could go on but you get the picture.

What would everybody do if martial law was delcared in america because it can be….?

[Arraya]

every one who voted for the Patriot Act which gives us freedom by taking away our right to free speach, right to privacy, and right not to be wiretaped or searched without a court order. Oh yea, and the right to file a writ of habius corpus against unlawful detention – prison for life with no charges or trial.”

I personally like the john warner defense act of 2006. The president can declare martial law in case of a “national emergency”.

When I see headlines like this “Iranian warship ‘harass’ US Navy”.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/01/07/iran.us.navy/index.html

My overly cynical, paranoid mind thinks “gulf of tokin II”. Then to add to the nightmere senerio, I see Bush and Co. Bomb Iran. Oil exports shut down from Iran and Venezuala cutting off 5 million barrels of oil a day off of the world market spiking prices to $400 a barrel causing shortages and economic mayhem. A perfect time to declare a national emergency creating dictator Bush for life. I could go on but you get the picture.

What would everybody do if martial law was delcared in america because it can be….?

[Arraya]

every one who voted for the Patriot Act which gives us freedom by taking away our right to free speach, right to privacy, and right not to be wiretaped or searched without a court order. Oh yea, and the right to file a writ of habius corpus against unlawful detention – prison for life with no charges or trial.”

I personally like the john warner defense act of 2006. The president can declare martial law in case of a “national emergency”.

When I see headlines like this “Iranian warship ‘harass’ US Navy”.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/01/07/iran.us.navy/index.html

My overly cynical, paranoid mind thinks “gulf of tokin II”. Then to add to the nightmere senerio, I see Bush and Co. Bomb Iran. Oil exports shut down from Iran and Venezuala cutting off 5 million barrels of oil a day off of the world market spiking prices to $400 a barrel causing shortages and economic mayhem. A perfect time to declare a national emergency creating dictator Bush for life. I could go on but you get the picture.

What would everybody do if martial law was delcared in america because it can be….?

[Arraya]

every one who voted for the Patriot Act which gives us freedom by taking away our right to free speach, right to privacy, and right not to be wiretaped or searched without a court order. Oh yea, and the right to file a writ of habius corpus against unlawful detention – prison for life with no charges or trial.”

I personally like the john warner defense act of 2006. The president can declare martial law in case of a “national emergency”.

When I see headlines like this “Iranian warship ‘harass’ US Navy”.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/01/07/iran.us.navy/index.html

My overly cynical, paranoid mind thinks “gulf of tokin II”. Then to add to the nightmere senerio, I see Bush and Co. Bomb Iran. Oil exports shut down from Iran and Venezuala cutting off 5 million barrels of oil a day off of the world market spiking prices to $400 a barrel causing shortages and economic mayhem. A perfect time to declare a national emergency creating dictator Bush for life. I could go on but you get the picture.

What would everybody do if martial law was delcared in america because it can be….?

[bubba99]

Arraya,

The Declaration of Independance was written by a bunch of revolutionaries, and would be “illegal” under the Patriot Act.

That type of radical thought cannot be tolerated by the real protectors of our freedom, you know – every one who voted for the Patriot Act which gives us freedom by taking away our right to free speach, right to privacy, and right not to be wiretaped or searched without a court order. Oh yea, and the right to file a writ of habius corpus against unlawful detention – prison for life with no charges or trial.

[bubba99]

Arraya,

The Declaration of Independance was written by a bunch of revolutionaries, and would be “illegal” under the Patriot Act.

That type of radical thought cannot be tolerated by the real protectors of our freedom, you know – every one who voted for the Patriot Act which gives us freedom by taking away our right to free speach, right to privacy, and right not to be wiretaped or searched without a court order. Oh yea, and the right to file a writ of habius corpus against unlawful detention – prison for life with no charges or trial.

[bubba99]

Arraya,

The Declaration of Independance was written by a bunch of revolutionaries, and would be “illegal” under the Patriot Act.

That type of radical thought cannot be tolerated by the real protectors of our freedom, you know – every one who voted for the Patriot Act which gives us freedom by taking away our right to free speach, right to privacy, and right not to be wiretaped or searched without a court order. Oh yea, and the right to file a writ of habius corpus against unlawful detention – prison for life with no charges or trial.

[bubba99]

Arraya,

The Declaration of Independance was written by a bunch of revolutionaries, and would be “illegal” under the Patriot Act.

That type of radical thought cannot be tolerated by the real protectors of our freedom, you know – every one who voted for the Patriot Act which gives us freedom by taking away our right to free speach, right to privacy, and right not to be wiretaped or searched without a court order. Oh yea, and the right to file a writ of habius corpus against unlawful detention – prison for life with no charges or trial.

[Arraya]

“Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it”

The Declaration of Indepenance

[Arraya]

“Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it”

The Declaration of Indepenance

[Arraya]

“Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it”

The Declaration of Indepenance

[Arraya]

“Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it”

The Declaration of Indepenance

[gandalf]

Interesting times, would you not agree? When the conservatives are among those advocating change…

[gandalf]

Interesting times, would you not agree? When the conservatives are among those advocating change…

[gandalf]

Interesting times, would you not agree? When the conservatives are among those advocating change…

[gandalf]

Interesting times, would you not agree? When the conservatives are among those advocating change…

[gandalf]

Interesting times, would you not agree? When the conservatives are among those advocating change…

[34f3f3f]

Well here’s another drunken rant …and the good thing about them is you are never ashamed of them until it’s too late. I’m a great fan of Bill Bryson and I found this quote by Joseph Priestley, which was aimed at the ineptitudes of the English language, but nevertheless is relevant to many matters “…it is better to wait the decisions of time, which are slow and sure, than to take those of the synods, which are often hasty and injudicious.” We can substitute synod with change mongers.

[34f3f3f]

Well here’s another drunken rant …and the good thing about them is you are never ashamed of them until it’s too late. I’m a great fan of Bill Bryson and I found this quote by Joseph Priestley, which was aimed at the ineptitudes of the English language, but nevertheless is relevant to many matters “…it is better to wait the decisions of time, which are slow and sure, than to take those of the synods, which are often hasty and injudicious.” We can substitute synod with change mongers.

[34f3f3f]

Well here’s another drunken rant …and the good thing about them is you are never ashamed of them until it’s too late. I’m a great fan of Bill Bryson and I found this quote by Joseph Priestley, which was aimed at the ineptitudes of the English language, but nevertheless is relevant to many matters “…it is better to wait the decisions of time, which are slow and sure, than to take those of the synods, which are often hasty and injudicious.” We can substitute synod with change mongers.

[34f3f3f]

Well here’s another drunken rant …and the good thing about them is you are never ashamed of them until it’s too late. I’m a great fan of Bill Bryson and I found this quote by Joseph Priestley, which was aimed at the ineptitudes of the English language, but nevertheless is relevant to many matters “…it is better to wait the decisions of time, which are slow and sure, than to take those of the synods, which are often hasty and injudicious.” We can substitute synod with change mongers.

[drunkle]

rice:

that was a pretty good rant… never be ashamed of drunken rants. at least, i never am. you shouldn’t have deleted it.

[drunkle]

rice:

that was a pretty good rant… never be ashamed of drunken rants. at least, i never am. you shouldn’t have deleted it.

[drunkle]

rice:

that was a pretty good rant… never be ashamed of drunken rants. at least, i never am. you shouldn’t have deleted it.

[drunkle]

rice:

that was a pretty good rant… never be ashamed of drunken rants. at least, i never am. you shouldn’t have deleted it.

[Sandi Egan]

Ricechex,

Could you please provide specific examples of Internet censorship? With blocked links, screenshots, etc?

[gandalf]

Censorship, content-filtering, etc. occurs all the time. It occurs within organizations as a matter of IT policy, but also as a way for management to control and monitor employee performance while on the job. Corporations have a right to monitor you and enforce boundaries on your behavior and the use of their equipment on the job, and they often do.

Above the subnet, organization or corporation level, the censorship occurs in the form of investigations, lawsuits and legal challenges, formal DMCA takedowns, as well as active content and traffic restrictions and mitigation of service, both formal and unacknowledged, by certain providers (google EFF Comcast).

On a more fundamental level, the move to eliminate Net Neutrality is de facto censorship in that traffic queuing and prioritization impacts system performance negatively for certain categories of content providers, coercing and channeling traffic towards capitalized providers. While not a formal restriction on content, it would serve to impact patterns of information transfer (read: consumption) as effectively as censorship.

[Ricechex]

Thanks Drunkle. Sandi Egan–I will try to see if I can post any of the blocks when I am at work.

[Ricechex]

Thanks Drunkle. Sandi Egan–I will try to see if I can post any of the blocks when I am at work.

[Ricechex]

Thanks Drunkle. Sandi Egan–I will try to see if I can post any of the blocks when I am at work.

[Ricechex]

Thanks Drunkle. Sandi Egan–I will try to see if I can post any of the blocks when I am at work.

[Ricechex]

Thanks Drunkle. Sandi Egan–I will try to see if I can post any of the blocks when I am at work.

[gandalf]

Censorship, content-filtering, etc. occurs all the time. It occurs within organizations as a matter of IT policy, but also as a way for management to control and monitor employee performance while on the job. Corporations have a right to monitor you and enforce boundaries on your behavior and the use of their equipment on the job, and they often do.

Above the subnet, organization or corporation level, the censorship occurs in the form of investigations, lawsuits and legal challenges, formal DMCA takedowns, as well as active content and traffic restrictions and mitigation of service, both formal and unacknowledged, by certain providers (google EFF Comcast).

On a more fundamental level, the move to eliminate Net Neutrality is de facto censorship in that traffic queuing and prioritization impacts system performance negatively for certain categories of content providers, coercing and channeling traffic towards capitalized providers. While not a formal restriction on content, it would serve to impact patterns of information transfer (read: consumption) as effectively as censorship.

[gandalf]

Censorship, content-filtering, etc. occurs all the time. It occurs within organizations as a matter of IT policy, but also as a way for management to control and monitor employee performance while on the job. Corporations have a right to monitor you and enforce boundaries on your behavior and the use of their equipment on the job, and they often do.

Above the subnet, organization or corporation level, the censorship occurs in the form of investigations, lawsuits and legal challenges, formal DMCA takedowns, as well as active content and traffic restrictions and mitigation of service, both formal and unacknowledged, by certain providers (google EFF Comcast).

On a more fundamental level, the move to eliminate Net Neutrality is de facto censorship in that traffic queuing and prioritization impacts system performance negatively for certain categories of content providers, coercing and channeling traffic towards capitalized providers. While not a formal restriction on content, it would serve to impact patterns of information transfer (read: consumption) as effectively as censorship.

[gandalf]

Censorship, content-filtering, etc. occurs all the time. It occurs within organizations as a matter of IT policy, but also as a way for management to control and monitor employee performance while on the job. Corporations have a right to monitor you and enforce boundaries on your behavior and the use of their equipment on the job, and they often do.

Above the subnet, organization or corporation level, the censorship occurs in the form of investigations, lawsuits and legal challenges, formal DMCA takedowns, as well as active content and traffic restrictions and mitigation of service, both formal and unacknowledged, by certain providers (google EFF Comcast).

On a more fundamental level, the move to eliminate Net Neutrality is de facto censorship in that traffic queuing and prioritization impacts system performance negatively for certain categories of content providers, coercing and channeling traffic towards capitalized providers. While not a formal restriction on content, it would serve to impact patterns of information transfer (read: consumption) as effectively as censorship.

[gandalf]

Censorship, content-filtering, etc. occurs all the time. It occurs within organizations as a matter of IT policy, but also as a way for management to control and monitor employee performance while on the job. Corporations have a right to monitor you and enforce boundaries on your behavior and the use of their equipment on the job, and they often do.

Above the subnet, organization or corporation level, the censorship occurs in the form of investigations, lawsuits and legal challenges, formal DMCA takedowns, as well as active content and traffic restrictions and mitigation of service, both formal and unacknowledged, by certain providers (google EFF Comcast).

On a more fundamental level, the move to eliminate Net Neutrality is de facto censorship in that traffic queuing and prioritization impacts system performance negatively for certain categories of content providers, coercing and channeling traffic towards capitalized providers. While not a formal restriction on content, it would serve to impact patterns of information transfer (read: consumption) as effectively as censorship.

[Sandi Egan]

Ricechex,

Could you please provide specific examples of Internet censorship? With blocked links, screenshots, etc?

[Sandi Egan]

Ricechex,

Could you please provide specific examples of Internet censorship? With blocked links, screenshots, etc?

[Sandi Egan]

Ricechex,

Could you please provide specific examples of Internet censorship? With blocked links, screenshots, etc?

[Sandi Egan]

Ricechex,

Could you please provide specific examples of Internet censorship? With blocked links, screenshots, etc?

[Ricechex]

Thanks Paramount. I will order it. Unfortunately, the website also has that shouting propaganda look to it. Perhaps those of us fighting the New World Order need to get some better website designers and more Hollywood types to streamline the movies. Of course, that would mean more control by the Elite, so I guess we gotta work with what we have.

On the RFID card, we won’t see that in May. But, I work civil service, and they have it in place there. We have a CAC card, fingerprinted, scan bar…yup, we are product code (human capital is it?).

The internet is so restricted that you cannot even see JPGs on many websites. Even the Union Tribune website has the DOD warning message–bold print–to scare us. For awhile I got around the yahoo mail, by linking through foreign countries, but they locked that down too. It seems like every day, more and more is blocked, and NO I am not looking at porn, New World Order, or anything controversial. They even pulled the CD burning program, and sometimes I need those for power point presentations. Now, I gotta go to a supervisor.

I have 13 complex passwords (numbers, capital letters, lower case letters, symbols) for different websites I use throughout the year. These passwords must be changed every 60 days. And, I am a fairly mid/low level position without clearances, top secret stuff, blah blah.

[Ricechex]

Thanks Paramount. I will order it. Unfortunately, the website also has that shouting propaganda look to it. Perhaps those of us fighting the New World Order need to get some better website designers and more Hollywood types to streamline the movies. Of course, that would mean more control by the Elite, so I guess we gotta work with what we have.

On the RFID card, we won’t see that in May. But, I work civil service, and they have it in place there. We have a CAC card, fingerprinted, scan bar…yup, we are product code (human capital is it?).

The internet is so restricted that you cannot even see JPGs on many websites. Even the Union Tribune website has the DOD warning message–bold print–to scare us. For awhile I got around the yahoo mail, by linking through foreign countries, but they locked that down too. It seems like every day, more and more is blocked, and NO I am not looking at porn, New World Order, or anything controversial. They even pulled the CD burning program, and sometimes I need those for power point presentations. Now, I gotta go to a supervisor.

I have 13 complex passwords (numbers, capital letters, lower case letters, symbols) for different websites I use throughout the year. These passwords must be changed every 60 days. And, I am a fairly mid/low level position without clearances, top secret stuff, blah blah.

[Ricechex]

Thanks Paramount. I will order it. Unfortunately, the website also has that shouting propaganda look to it. Perhaps those of us fighting the New World Order need to get some better website designers and more Hollywood types to streamline the movies. Of course, that would mean more control by the Elite, so I guess we gotta work with what we have.

On the RFID card, we won’t see that in May. But, I work civil service, and they have it in place there. We have a CAC card, fingerprinted, scan bar…yup, we are product code (human capital is it?).

The internet is so restricted that you cannot even see JPGs on many websites. Even the Union Tribune website has the DOD warning message–bold print–to scare us. For awhile I got around the yahoo mail, by linking through foreign countries, but they locked that down too. It seems like every day, more and more is blocked, and NO I am not looking at porn, New World Order, or anything controversial. They even pulled the CD burning program, and sometimes I need those for power point presentations. Now, I gotta go to a supervisor.

I have 13 complex passwords (numbers, capital letters, lower case letters, symbols) for different websites I use throughout the year. These passwords must be changed every 60 days. And, I am a fairly mid/low level position without clearances, top secret stuff, blah blah.

[Ricechex]

Thanks Paramount. I will order it. Unfortunately, the website also has that shouting propaganda look to it. Perhaps those of us fighting the New World Order need to get some better website designers and more Hollywood types to streamline the movies. Of course, that would mean more control by the Elite, so I guess we gotta work with what we have.

On the RFID card, we won’t see that in May. But, I work civil service, and they have it in place there. We have a CAC card, fingerprinted, scan bar…yup, we are product code (human capital is it?).

The internet is so restricted that you cannot even see JPGs on many websites. Even the Union Tribune website has the DOD warning message–bold print–to scare us. For awhile I got around the yahoo mail, by linking through foreign countries, but they locked that down too. It seems like every day, more and more is blocked, and NO I am not looking at porn, New World Order, or anything controversial. They even pulled the CD burning program, and sometimes I need those for power point presentations. Now, I gotta go to a supervisor.

I have 13 complex passwords (numbers, capital letters, lower case letters, symbols) for different websites I use throughout the year. These passwords must be changed every 60 days. And, I am a fairly mid/low level position without clearances, top secret stuff, blah blah.

[paramount]

Powerful – and very very scary.

One more reason to support Ron Paul.

That should be required viewing as well as Aaron Russo’s “From Freedom to Fascism.”

[paramount]

Powerful – and very very scary.

One more reason to support Ron Paul.

That should be required viewing as well as Aaron Russo’s “From Freedom to Fascism.”

[paramount]

Powerful – and very very scary.

One more reason to support Ron Paul.

That should be required viewing as well as Aaron Russo’s “From Freedom to Fascism.”

[paramount]

Powerful – and very very scary.

One more reason to support Ron Paul.

That should be required viewing as well as Aaron Russo’s “From Freedom to Fascism.”

[34f3f3f]

I could not even get a quarter way through the Naomi Wolf clip …it was just a little contrived and frankly boring. Was there actually an a real audience there? To compare contemporary US society with Hitler’s Germany, Stalin’s Russia, and Mussolini’s Italy seems to be stretching reality a little, but no doubt makes for an interesting book. The US economy is starting to flounder, but that’s in the order of economic cycles. Some terrorists took a swipe at the US, and the wrong man was in charge at the time. Health care is in crisis, but it is in every modern society. US self confidence is at an all time low, and that’s when doom and gloom merchants start to cash in.

Prohibition, the Great Depression, world wars, oppression, dictators, famine, no freedom of speech, no freedom of movement, police states, no elections, and the list goes on, are things most Americans have no experience of, and I see no evidence of it in any serious measure.

My only criticism of US society is that not enough people keep themselves informed about things going on around them. I was appalled when a Stanford graduate told me recently he did not know who Bhutto was. There needs to be far more newspapers, balanced documentaries, and debates. That will peg thinking to reality and deter too many flights of fancy into cukoo land. The checks and balances are as much about the media as anything else, and the more prevalent it is, the more accountability becomes a mainstay.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

qwerty: I agree with your assessment of Naomi Wolf. She is a very self-aggrandizing post-feminist author (“The Beauty Myth”), and is especially noted for her sloppy scholarship and temper tantrums when questioned about her “facts”.

I also agree with your overall view of the strength of the US to survive some pretty serious privations and come out intact.

That being said, there are some aspects to the Patriot Acts (I and II) that concern me. There are also some NSA programs out there (Carnivore and Echelon) that are worrisome, too. There is a new level of intrusiveness out there, and it is not all directly attrituable to Dubya (Clinton was responsible for implementing the one NSA program in 1994).

As far as an informed citizenry goes: Hell, most high school kids can’t even find Europe on a map.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

qwerty: I agree with your assessment of Naomi Wolf. She is a very self-aggrandizing post-feminist author (“The Beauty Myth”), and is especially noted for her sloppy scholarship and temper tantrums when questioned about her “facts”.

I also agree with your overall view of the strength of the US to survive some pretty serious privations and come out intact.

That being said, there are some aspects to the Patriot Acts (I and II) that concern me. There are also some NSA programs out there (Carnivore and Echelon) that are worrisome, too. There is a new level of intrusiveness out there, and it is not all directly attrituable to Dubya (Clinton was responsible for implementing the one NSA program in 1994).

As far as an informed citizenry goes: Hell, most high school kids can’t even find Europe on a map.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

qwerty: I agree with your assessment of Naomi Wolf. She is a very self-aggrandizing post-feminist author (“The Beauty Myth”), and is especially noted for her sloppy scholarship and temper tantrums when questioned about her “facts”.

I also agree with your overall view of the strength of the US to survive some pretty serious privations and come out intact.

That being said, there are some aspects to the Patriot Acts (I and II) that concern me. There are also some NSA programs out there (Carnivore and Echelon) that are worrisome, too. There is a new level of intrusiveness out there, and it is not all directly attrituable to Dubya (Clinton was responsible for implementing the one NSA program in 1994).

As far as an informed citizenry goes: Hell, most high school kids can’t even find Europe on a map.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

qwerty: I agree with your assessment of Naomi Wolf. She is a very self-aggrandizing post-feminist author (“The Beauty Myth”), and is especially noted for her sloppy scholarship and temper tantrums when questioned about her “facts”.

I also agree with your overall view of the strength of the US to survive some pretty serious privations and come out intact.

That being said, there are some aspects to the Patriot Acts (I and II) that concern me. There are also some NSA programs out there (Carnivore and Echelon) that are worrisome, too. There is a new level of intrusiveness out there, and it is not all directly attrituable to Dubya (Clinton was responsible for implementing the one NSA program in 1994).

As far as an informed citizenry goes: Hell, most high school kids can’t even find Europe on a map.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

qwerty: I agree with your assessment of Naomi Wolf. She is a very self-aggrandizing post-feminist author (“The Beauty Myth”), and is especially noted for her sloppy scholarship and temper tantrums when questioned about her “facts”.

I also agree with your overall view of the strength of the US to survive some pretty serious privations and come out intact.

That being said, there are some aspects to the Patriot Acts (I and II) that concern me. There are also some NSA programs out there (Carnivore and Echelon) that are worrisome, too. There is a new level of intrusiveness out there, and it is not all directly attrituable to Dubya (Clinton was responsible for implementing the one NSA program in 1994).

As far as an informed citizenry goes: Hell, most high school kids can’t even find Europe on a map.

[speedingpullet]

Re: Mass American Ignorance…

To quote the brilliant W.C. Fields:

“you can lead a whore to culture, but you can’t make her think…”

[speedingpullet]

Re: Mass American Ignorance…

To quote the brilliant W.C. Fields:

“you can lead a whore to culture, but you can’t make her think…”

[speedingpullet]

Re: Mass American Ignorance…

To quote the brilliant W.C. Fields:

“you can lead a whore to culture, but you can’t make her think…”

[speedingpullet]

Re: Mass American Ignorance…

To quote the brilliant W.C. Fields:

“you can lead a whore to culture, but you can’t make her think…”

[speedingpullet]

Re: Mass American Ignorance…

To quote the brilliant W.C. Fields:

“you can lead a whore to culture, but you can’t make her think…”

[34f3f3f]

I could not even get a quarter way through the Naomi Wolf clip …it was just a little contrived and frankly boring. Was there actually an a real audience there? To compare contemporary US society with Hitler’s Germany, Stalin’s Russia, and Mussolini’s Italy seems to be stretching reality a little, but no doubt makes for an interesting book. The US economy is starting to flounder, but that’s in the order of economic cycles. Some terrorists took a swipe at the US, and the wrong man was in charge at the time. Health care is in crisis, but it is in every modern society. US self confidence is at an all time low, and that’s when doom and gloom merchants start to cash in.

Prohibition, the Great Depression, world wars, oppression, dictators, famine, no freedom of speech, no freedom of movement, police states, no elections, and the list goes on, are things most Americans have no experience of, and I see no evidence of it in any serious measure.

My only criticism of US society is that not enough people keep themselves informed about things going on around them. I was appalled when a Stanford graduate told me recently he did not know who Bhutto was. There needs to be far more newspapers, balanced documentaries, and debates. That will peg thinking to reality and deter too many flights of fancy into cukoo land. The checks and balances are as much about the media as anything else, and the more prevalent it is, the more accountability becomes a mainstay.

[34f3f3f]

I could not even get a quarter way through the Naomi Wolf clip …it was just a little contrived and frankly boring. Was there actually an a real audience there? To compare contemporary US society with Hitler’s Germany, Stalin’s Russia, and Mussolini’s Italy seems to be stretching reality a little, but no doubt makes for an interesting book. The US economy is starting to flounder, but that’s in the order of economic cycles. Some terrorists took a swipe at the US, and the wrong man was in charge at the time. Health care is in crisis, but it is in every modern society. US self confidence is at an all time low, and that’s when doom and gloom merchants start to cash in.

Prohibition, the Great Depression, world wars, oppression, dictators, famine, no freedom of speech, no freedom of movement, police states, no elections, and the list goes on, are things most Americans have no experience of, and I see no evidence of it in any serious measure.

My only criticism of US society is that not enough people keep themselves informed about things going on around them. I was appalled when a Stanford graduate told me recently he did not know who Bhutto was. There needs to be far more newspapers, balanced documentaries, and debates. That will peg thinking to reality and deter too many flights of fancy into cukoo land. The checks and balances are as much about the media as anything else, and the more prevalent it is, the more accountability becomes a mainstay.

[34f3f3f]

I could not even get a quarter way through the Naomi Wolf clip …it was just a little contrived and frankly boring. Was there actually an a real audience there? To compare contemporary US society with Hitler’s Germany, Stalin’s Russia, and Mussolini’s Italy seems to be stretching reality a little, but no doubt makes for an interesting book. The US economy is starting to flounder, but that’s in the order of economic cycles. Some terrorists took a swipe at the US, and the wrong man was in charge at the time. Health care is in crisis, but it is in every modern society. US self confidence is at an all time low, and that’s when doom and gloom merchants start to cash in.

Prohibition, the Great Depression, world wars, oppression, dictators, famine, no freedom of speech, no freedom of movement, police states, no elections, and the list goes on, are things most Americans have no experience of, and I see no evidence of it in any serious measure.

My only criticism of US society is that not enough people keep themselves informed about things going on around them. I was appalled when a Stanford graduate told me recently he did not know who Bhutto was. There needs to be far more newspapers, balanced documentaries, and debates. That will peg thinking to reality and deter too many flights of fancy into cukoo land. The checks and balances are as much about the media as anything else, and the more prevalent it is, the more accountability becomes a mainstay.

[34f3f3f]

I could not even get a quarter way through the Naomi Wolf clip …it was just a little contrived and frankly boring. Was there actually an a real audience there? To compare contemporary US society with Hitler’s Germany, Stalin’s Russia, and Mussolini’s Italy seems to be stretching reality a little, but no doubt makes for an interesting book. The US economy is starting to flounder, but that’s in the order of economic cycles. Some terrorists took a swipe at the US, and the wrong man was in charge at the time. Health care is in crisis, but it is in every modern society. US self confidence is at an all time low, and that’s when doom and gloom merchants start to cash in.

Prohibition, the Great Depression, world wars, oppression, dictators, famine, no freedom of speech, no freedom of movement, police states, no elections, and the list goes on, are things most Americans have no experience of, and I see no evidence of it in any serious measure.

My only criticism of US society is that not enough people keep themselves informed about things going on around them. I was appalled when a Stanford graduate told me recently he did not know who Bhutto was. There needs to be far more newspapers, balanced documentaries, and debates. That will peg thinking to reality and deter too many flights of fancy into cukoo land. The checks and balances are as much about the media as anything else, and the more prevalent it is, the more accountability becomes a mainstay.

[bsrsharma]

Naomi Wolf’s thesis will be disproved, one way or other, if either Obama or Huckabee is elected in November. It is hard to package either of them as “establishment”.

[gandalf]

Politically, we’re off-track.

But I’m of the mindset that our country, our democracy and culture, will correct itself in time. I see signs of a turnaround. I’m concerned about our education system, about the character of our media and its infotainment culture and the terrible impact it’s having on ethics, the quality of our citizenry and the competence of our labor force.

Sheeple is being kind.

Also, I’m concerned about the quality of our politics, the breakdown in civility in public life. I don’t care for the partisanship, all the bumper sticker loyalists, and in particular, Republicans who put the welfare of their party before the interests of our country. They’ve lost their way, abandoned principles for power. It’s dishonorable.

The country will be alright though. Give it time.

Honestly, the economy is a bigger deal. The impacts of a bad business cycle, market failure and true scarcity, would overshadow the politics of today by a large measure. This is the greatest risk we face right now.

[Arraya]

“But I’m of the mindset that our country, our democracy and culture, will correct itself in time.”

I agree, unfortunately it will take a lot of pain before any real change is made.

“Honestly, I’m more concerned about the economy. The impacts of a bad business cycle, market failure and true scarcity, would overshadow the politics of today by a large measure. This is the greatest risk we face right now.”

This is where the pain is going to come from. The scary part is all the circuitry is in place to handle an unruley, poverty stricken and hungry population via all the rights erroding laws, excutive orders and acts that have been recently passed. Any type of grassroots movement could be squashed and detained if so deamed necessary by the powers that be.

While at the same time the ministry of propaganda aka “main stream media” distracts us from all the pain around us. As things get worse the spin machines go into hyper-drive. Using partisan politics to pit us against each other and worthless infotainment to distract us.

I really hope I am wrong but it looks like the American standard of living is going to pop like the housing bubble via a faulty economic model, corruption on a mass scale and some nasty geological realities on our doorstep as we simultaneously slip into an authoritarian police state to deal with the chaos.

Sorry for all of you that support patrio-facist groupthink but that is what I see.

[Arraya]

“But I’m of the mindset that our country, our democracy and culture, will correct itself in time.”

I agree, unfortunately it will take a lot of pain before any real change is made.

“Honestly, I’m more concerned about the economy. The impacts of a bad business cycle, market failure and true scarcity, would overshadow the politics of today by a large measure. This is the greatest risk we face right now.”

This is where the pain is going to come from. The scary part is all the circuitry is in place to handle an unruley, poverty stricken and hungry population via all the rights erroding laws, excutive orders and acts that have been recently passed. Any type of grassroots movement could be squashed and detained if so deamed necessary by the powers that be.

While at the same time the ministry of propaganda aka “main stream media” distracts us from all the pain around us. As things get worse the spin machines go into hyper-drive. Using partisan politics to pit us against each other and worthless infotainment to distract us.

I really hope I am wrong but it looks like the American standard of living is going to pop like the housing bubble via a faulty economic model, corruption on a mass scale and some nasty geological realities on our doorstep as we simultaneously slip into an authoritarian police state to deal with the chaos.

Sorry for all of you that support patrio-facist groupthink but that is what I see.

[Arraya]

“But I’m of the mindset that our country, our democracy and culture, will correct itself in time.”

I agree, unfortunately it will take a lot of pain before any real change is made.

“Honestly, I’m more concerned about the economy. The impacts of a bad business cycle, market failure and true scarcity, would overshadow the politics of today by a large measure. This is the greatest risk we face right now.”

This is where the pain is going to come from. The scary part is all the circuitry is in place to handle an unruley, poverty stricken and hungry population via all the rights erroding laws, excutive orders and acts that have been recently passed. Any type of grassroots movement could be squashed and detained if so deamed necessary by the powers that be.

While at the same time the ministry of propaganda aka “main stream media” distracts us from all the pain around us. As things get worse the spin machines go into hyper-drive. Using partisan politics to pit us against each other and worthless infotainment to distract us.

I really hope I am wrong but it looks like the American standard of living is going to pop like the housing bubble via a faulty economic model, corruption on a mass scale and some nasty geological realities on our doorstep as we simultaneously slip into an authoritarian police state to deal with the chaos.

Sorry for all of you that support patrio-facist groupthink but that is what I see.

[Arraya]

“But I’m of the mindset that our country, our democracy and culture, will correct itself in time.”

I agree, unfortunately it will take a lot of pain before any real change is made.

“Honestly, I’m more concerned about the economy. The impacts of a bad business cycle, market failure and true scarcity, would overshadow the politics of today by a large measure. This is the greatest risk we face right now.”

This is where the pain is going to come from. The scary part is all the circuitry is in place to handle an unruley, poverty stricken and hungry population via all the rights erroding laws, excutive orders and acts that have been recently passed. Any type of grassroots movement could be squashed and detained if so deamed necessary by the powers that be.

While at the same time the ministry of propaganda aka “main stream media” distracts us from all the pain around us. As things get worse the spin machines go into hyper-drive. Using partisan politics to pit us against each other and worthless infotainment to distract us.

I really hope I am wrong but it looks like the American standard of living is going to pop like the housing bubble via a faulty economic model, corruption on a mass scale and some nasty geological realities on our doorstep as we simultaneously slip into an authoritarian police state to deal with the chaos.

Sorry for all of you that support patrio-facist groupthink but that is what I see.

[Arraya]

“But I’m of the mindset that our country, our democracy and culture, will correct itself in time.”

I agree, unfortunately it will take a lot of pain before any real change is made.

“Honestly, I’m more concerned about the economy. The impacts of a bad business cycle, market failure and true scarcity, would overshadow the politics of today by a large measure. This is the greatest risk we face right now.”

This is where the pain is going to come from. The scary part is all the circuitry is in place to handle an unruley, poverty stricken and hungry population via all the rights erroding laws, excutive orders and acts that have been recently passed. Any type of grassroots movement could be squashed and detained if so deamed necessary by the powers that be.

While at the same time the ministry of propaganda aka “main stream media” distracts us from all the pain around us. As things get worse the spin machines go into hyper-drive. Using partisan politics to pit us against each other and worthless infotainment to distract us.

I really hope I am wrong but it looks like the American standard of living is going to pop like the housing bubble via a faulty economic model, corruption on a mass scale and some nasty geological realities on our doorstep as we simultaneously slip into an authoritarian police state to deal with the chaos.

Sorry for all of you that support patrio-facist groupthink but that is what I see.

[drunkle]

“I’m of the mindset that our country, our democracy and culture, will correct itself in time.”

i think most people feel this way. some people are more angry about things as they are than others, but in general, most people are confident in america.

but, i think that attitude is a double edged nuke. assuming that “things will take care of themselves” or that someone (someone else) will “fix it” are not conducive to things getting fixed…

[Arraya]

“but, i think that attitude is a double edged nuke. assuming that “things will take care of themselves” or that someone (someone else) will “fix it” are not conducive to things getting fixed…”

That is spot on and to make matters worse. The powers that be that are in charge of fixing things do not have our best interest at heart so the problem expotenially grows

[Arraya]

“but, i think that attitude is a double edged nuke. assuming that “things will take care of themselves” or that someone (someone else) will “fix it” are not conducive to things getting fixed…”

That is spot on and to make matters worse. The powers that be that are in charge of fixing things do not have our best interest at heart so the problem expotenially grows

[Arraya]

“but, i think that attitude is a double edged nuke. assuming that “things will take care of themselves” or that someone (someone else) will “fix it” are not conducive to things getting fixed…”

That is spot on and to make matters worse. The powers that be that are in charge of fixing things do not have our best interest at heart so the problem expotenially grows

[Arraya]

“but, i think that attitude is a double edged nuke. assuming that “things will take care of themselves” or that someone (someone else) will “fix it” are not conducive to things getting fixed…”

That is spot on and to make matters worse. The powers that be that are in charge of fixing things do not have our best interest at heart so the problem expotenially grows

[Arraya]

“but, i think that attitude is a double edged nuke. assuming that “things will take care of themselves” or that someone (someone else) will “fix it” are not conducive to things getting fixed…”

That is spot on and to make matters worse. The powers that be that are in charge of fixing things do not have our best interest at heart so the problem expotenially grows

[drunkle]

“I’m of the mindset that our country, our democracy and culture, will correct itself in time.”

i think most people feel this way. some people are more angry about things as they are than others, but in general, most people are confident in america.

but, i think that attitude is a double edged nuke. assuming that “things will take care of themselves” or that someone (someone else) will “fix it” are not conducive to things getting fixed…

[drunkle]

“I’m of the mindset that our country, our democracy and culture, will correct itself in time.”

i think most people feel this way. some people are more angry about things as they are than others, but in general, most people are confident in america.

but, i think that attitude is a double edged nuke. assuming that “things will take care of themselves” or that someone (someone else) will “fix it” are not conducive to things getting fixed…

[drunkle]

“I’m of the mindset that our country, our democracy and culture, will correct itself in time.”

i think most people feel this way. some people are more angry about things as they are than others, but in general, most people are confident in america.

but, i think that attitude is a double edged nuke. assuming that “things will take care of themselves” or that someone (someone else) will “fix it” are not conducive to things getting fixed…

[drunkle]

“I’m of the mindset that our country, our democracy and culture, will correct itself in time.”

i think most people feel this way. some people are more angry about things as they are than others, but in general, most people are confident in america.

but, i think that attitude is a double edged nuke. assuming that “things will take care of themselves” or that someone (someone else) will “fix it” are not conducive to things getting fixed…

[gandalf]

Politically, we’re off-track.

But I’m of the mindset that our country, our democracy and culture, will correct itself in time. I see signs of a turnaround. I’m concerned about our education system, about the character of our media and its infotainment culture and the terrible impact it’s having on ethics, the quality of our citizenry and the competence of our labor force.

Sheeple is being kind.

Also, I’m concerned about the quality of our politics, the breakdown in civility in public life. I don’t care for the partisanship, all the bumper sticker loyalists, and in particular, Republicans who put the welfare of their party before the interests of our country. They’ve lost their way, abandoned principles for power. It’s dishonorable.

The country will be alright though. Give it time.

Honestly, the economy is a bigger deal. The impacts of a bad business cycle, market failure and true scarcity, would overshadow the politics of today by a large measure. This is the greatest risk we face right now.

[gandalf]

Politically, we’re off-track.

But I’m of the mindset that our country, our democracy and culture, will correct itself in time. I see signs of a turnaround. I’m concerned about our education system, about the character of our media and its infotainment culture and the terrible impact it’s having on ethics, the quality of our citizenry and the competence of our labor force.

Sheeple is being kind.

Also, I’m concerned about the quality of our politics, the breakdown in civility in public life. I don’t care for the partisanship, all the bumper sticker loyalists, and in particular, Republicans who put the welfare of their party before the interests of our country. They’ve lost their way, abandoned principles for power. It’s dishonorable.

The country will be alright though. Give it time.

Honestly, the economy is a bigger deal. The impacts of a bad business cycle, market failure and true scarcity, would overshadow the politics of today by a large measure. This is the greatest risk we face right now.

[gandalf]

Politically, we’re off-track.

But I’m of the mindset that our country, our democracy and culture, will correct itself in time. I see signs of a turnaround. I’m concerned about our education system, about the character of our media and its infotainment culture and the terrible impact it’s having on ethics, the quality of our citizenry and the competence of our labor force.

Sheeple is being kind.

Also, I’m concerned about the quality of our politics, the breakdown in civility in public life. I don’t care for the partisanship, all the bumper sticker loyalists, and in particular, Republicans who put the welfare of their party before the interests of our country. They’ve lost their way, abandoned principles for power. It’s dishonorable.

The country will be alright though. Give it time.

Honestly, the economy is a bigger deal. The impacts of a bad business cycle, market failure and true scarcity, would overshadow the politics of today by a large measure. This is the greatest risk we face right now.

[gandalf]

Politically, we’re off-track.

But I’m of the mindset that our country, our democracy and culture, will correct itself in time. I see signs of a turnaround. I’m concerned about our education system, about the character of our media and its infotainment culture and the terrible impact it’s having on ethics, the quality of our citizenry and the competence of our labor force.

Sheeple is being kind.

Also, I’m concerned about the quality of our politics, the breakdown in civility in public life. I don’t care for the partisanship, all the bumper sticker loyalists, and in particular, Republicans who put the welfare of their party before the interests of our country. They’ve lost their way, abandoned principles for power. It’s dishonorable.

The country will be alright though. Give it time.

Honestly, the economy is a bigger deal. The impacts of a bad business cycle, market failure and true scarcity, would overshadow the politics of today by a large measure. This is the greatest risk we face right now.

[bsrsharma]

Naomi Wolf’s thesis will be disproved, one way or other, if either Obama or Huckabee is elected in November. It is hard to package either of them as “establishment”.

[bsrsharma]

Naomi Wolf’s thesis will be disproved, one way or other, if either Obama or Huckabee is elected in November. It is hard to package either of them as “establishment”.

[bsrsharma]

Naomi Wolf’s thesis will be disproved, one way or other, if either Obama or Huckabee is elected in November. It is hard to package either of them as “establishment”.

[bsrsharma]

Naomi Wolf’s thesis will be disproved, one way or other, if either Obama or Huckabee is elected in November. It is hard to package either of them as “establishment”.

[meadandale]

After seeing her on Oreilly awhile back, I find it hard to give this woman any credibility.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,312609,00.html

Anyone who confirms Godwin’s law is a nutjob…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

[meadandale]

After seeing her on Oreilly awhile back, I find it hard to give this woman any credibility.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,312609,00.html

Anyone who confirms Godwin’s law is a nutjob…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

[meadandale]

After seeing her on Oreilly awhile back, I find it hard to give this woman any credibility.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,312609,00.html

Anyone who confirms Godwin’s law is a nutjob…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

[meadandale]

After seeing her on Oreilly awhile back, I find it hard to give this woman any credibility.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,312609,00.html

Anyone who confirms Godwin’s law is a nutjob…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

[meadandale]

After seeing her on Oreilly awhile back, I find it hard to give this woman any credibility.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,312609,00.html

Anyone who confirms Godwin’s law is a nutjob…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

[gold_dredger_phd]

The whackjob needs to pay her rent or at least buy food, so she writes BS books. There are a large number of failed academics and academic wanna-be’s that write books predicting the end of the world, culture, religion, freedom, whatever. It’s like listening to an over-educated carnival barker trying to separate you from your ticket just to get a glimpse of some over-hyped circus act.

This woman is a circus act and that’s how she makes her money. She was far too emotional or she was of dubious academic acheivement even though she had the correct politics and sex for getting tenure.

Other nuts who are in this category are: James Howard Kunstler, Jeremy Rifkin and Gore Vidal. There are others, but I don’t make it a habit of reading the works of my ideological enemies. Most of these people are cultural vandals.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

gold_dredger_phd: Hoo-f**king-ah! Outstanding synopsis. I especially agree with the estimation of Gore Vidal. I’ve seen him on talk shows before, dripping contempt for anyone not able to understand (and, more importantly, agree with) him.

Don’t forget the king of self-aggrandizement and self-attribution: Noam Chomsky. Noted apologist for Pol Pot as well.

Naomi Wolf is an absolute dilettante when it comes to this type of writing, and she is clearly out of her depth here. This type of tired polemical writing should have gone out with the ’60s and early ’70s, especially the repeated invocations of Mussolini and Hitler. I especially enjoyed the hysterical bon mot of: “I will no longer speak out when they come seize my friends!” I don’t find it easy to equate her with Diedrich Bonhoffer, whom she was undoubtedly referring to.

[drunkle]

humm. ad hominem is outstanding synopsis. no wonder ann coulter sells so well.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

drunkle: Since when is referring to a dolt as a dolt an ad hominem attack?

Ann Coulter is not an author, nor is she a political commentator. Rather, she is a lightning rod for the right and great entertainment value. Taking her seriously is like taking Rush Limbaugh seriously. They are both there for ratings, and to invite fire, and little else.

[drunkle]

gold’s post was nothing but ad hom. there was no substance, just character attacks. “referring to a dolt as a dolt” is just another empty ad hom.

you like ann coulter because she is an author of ad hom political attacks against liberals. simple as that.

edit:

4 years ago, i wonder if you would have labeled Rich as such:

The whackjob needs to pay her rent or at least buy food, so she writes BS books. There are a large number of failed academics and academic wanna-be’s that write books predicting the end of the world, culture, religion, freedom, whatever. It’s like listening to an over-educated carnival barker trying to separate you from your ticket just to get a glimpse of some over-hyped circus act.

after all, 4 years ago, RE was still booming, “carnival barkers” like rich and shiller and schiff were just crying wolf because they’re all bitter renters, right?

[Allan from Fallbrook]

drunkle: I never said I like Ann Coulter. I said she was great entertainment value. As to attacking liberals: I have no issue with liberals. I do, however, have an issue with Lefties. There is a big difference.

As to Naomi Wolf: Her scholarship is a joke, the examples cited in her book are downright laughable, and she has been routinely castigated by her more capable peers for pandering to the extreme elements in the feminist movement. With this new book, she is apparently trying to do the same with the Loony Left.

Is that an ad hom attack?

[drunkle]

not as much as gold’s original post. certainly lacking in details, support and substance, however. but judging by his (gold’s) post in the obama thread, i’m seeing the pattern.

qwerty had a good criticism earlier in the thread, one that didn’t require ad hom. your response to his post was also far more evenly written.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

drunkle: Fair enough. Rather than pen some overlong response citing chapter and verse, I will confine myself to just hitting the high notes.

In her new book, Wolf uses two extremely preposterous examples as America’s new “fascist drift” and supposed totalitarian repression of “free speaking” individuals. These are Lynne Stewart, who was convicted of aiding and abetting the work of Sheikh Rahman (a convicted terrorist of some note and dedicated anti-American), as well as Adam Gadahn, the self-professed American “voice” of al Qaeda. According to Wolf, the US government’s case against both of these individuals was nothing more than a thinly veiled attempt to silence dissent and “free speakers”. She completely ignores the facts of both cases, as well as failing to note that both individuals were convicted by properly empaneled juries under the watchful eye of both journalists and academics, who would have been the first to cry out if anything untoward were to take place.

She also compares certain safety measures in place at various airports as being in line with security measures practiced by Mussolini’s secret police. These include random checks of baggage and verification that items are what they are represented to be. According to her, Mussolini’s police used similar methods as a means of repression and keeping the populace in line. She attempts to conflate the TSA (Transportation Security Administration) with Mussolini’s secret police, as well as drawing parallels between the use of the word “heimat” (homeland) by the Nazis during the 1930s and 1940s, and America’s creation of a Department of “Homeland” Security. Apparently, our use of the word Homeland and the Nazi use of the word Homeland is not a coincidence. Rather it points to our drift into fascism. I guess it is good we didn’t name it the Department of Fatherland Security.

Her scholarship is sloppy in the sense that she inaptly draws her conclusions between present day US and Hitler’s Germany and Mussolini’s Italy. Simply saying that modern America is “like” fascist Italy or Nazi Germany does not constitute a completed argument. Nor does her hysteria when it comes to implying that somehow the government will come after her personally once it gets wind of her book.

There are quite a few other examples as well. Her book “The Beauty Myth” was shredded by a large number of reviewers (who were largely non-partisan on the issue of feminism), and again largely for the same reasons.

[drunkle]

while i appreciate your more involved and in depth discussion, that wasn’t really my intent. i have no knowledge of the person in question, no experience with her writings or opinions. i neither support nor debunk her positions. i was only faulting the ad hominem.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

drunkle: Understood. My issue is that any strongly stated opinion becomes ad hominem. My understanding of the term indicates that it means a personal attack without basis.

While you weren’t necessarily soliciting what I followed up with, it does make the point that one can make the point that someone is a dolt, and then drive it home with examples.

I don’t use the term “dolt” lightly, either. Nor do I reserve it solely for Lefties. Plenty of those on the right have earned the moniker as well.

I made the point on another thread (using you, as a matter of fact), that we are throwing certain terms around, rather than facing off and arguing the facts or being forced to support our assertions with examples. I don’t consider gold to be a racist. While he might have been more delicate in stating his position, I don’t feel it was without merit.

[drunkle]

allan:

are you disagreeing with me fundamentally that gold’s post was pure ad hominem? he posited that wolf was an academic loser trying to make a buck. that’s it. pure personal attack and no substance. whether or not that’s a “strongly stated opinion” has nothing to do with whether or not it was a personal attack that completely avoids the issues. exactly as you claim that i’m doing in the obama thread.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

drunkle: I could argue that gold’s post wasn’t ad hominem, but I would be wrong, and we both know it. However, parts of it were not, and correctly made the point that Wolf, like Kunstler, or Chomsky, is a hack. That is not ad hominem, and is fully supported by facts.

This discussion between you and I (on this thread and the other) underscores an unfortunate point: We get caught up in parsing words, or arguing certain portions of a posting, that we lose the overall tenor of the argument and start bandying semantics.

[drunkle]

allan. you’re the one couching words. not me.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

drunkle: Yeah, I might not have “called a spade a spade”, but I’ve been clear as to what I think, and believe.

[NotCranky]

Yeah, I would think Rustico would! He lives in the city. We choose where we live and in many ways it represents so much about us, whether we like it or not.

Hi Ricechex,
Actually I live in the hills north or Jamul as of 3 years ago. I lived in Normal Heights and Talmage most of my adult life. I don’t get out much, but when I do it is often to go back to Lestat’s which is where I met my wife BTW.

I watched your movie(naomi wolf) and had previously watched the zeitgeist movie which was posted on another thread. For me it ahs merit onthe basis of the topic it raises alone. So many important topics are raised in these movies. I don’t see how else the cards are going to get put on the table in front of an audience.

It is easy to see her bias too. I agree with Allan her examples of breaches of civil liberties against people like me you are pretty open to criticism. The incidences of forced breast milk drinking and tasering of loud mouthed hyper-active college students for example. Those items could be chalked up to the fact that in a country as populated with primates and as complex as ours is, stupid things are going to happen. People are going to make mistakes.

That said I am glad for her voice. Maybe it takes irresponsible hyperbole and other shenanigans to stir people up currently. Whatever the case I am ready to see a “movement” of some kind.

One thing I am sure of we do not have representative goevernment, even if it is true that we have what we deserve. On the other hand, maybe we do have representative government and I am just and minority type oddball.

Just in case, as a test, I think we should rip the arms off a few politicians from both sides as they reach out to take handouts from lobbyist or to shake the hands of board members who are welcoming them to their new highly salaried position in a corporation that the have been in cahoots with for years. After that, if nothing changes after these subtle reforms,I will believe democracy is working.

First priority though.. we must get drunkle elected president.

Taser incident.

[Dukehorn]

Personally I would like Allan to attempt to do the same type of analysis of Ann Coulter’s scholarship and perhaps we can compare notes. You do know why she’s given up putting footnotes in her recent books?

Calling Wolf’s work scholarship is a misnomer since (last I checked) she is not an academic bound by the strictures of “good scholarship”. She is a feminist writer pure and simple. In fact, a comparison of her work to Coulter’s is appropriate since they both (in essence) are hacks.

However, in reading their respective books, who’s the true “hate” monger and who is the person attempting to make our society a better place? I’d say Coulter for the former and Wolf for the latter (and you might disagree).

Allan, way back in undergrad, for my military propaganda class (one of my undergrad majors was military history), I did a paper on how the press and GIs perceived and treated Germans versus the Japanese (including POWs and trophies of war). Have an educated guess on what the general trend line was?

[drunkle]

rus:

thanks for your vote of confidence. would you mind helping my cause some more by donating to my campaign? just a small tax deductible amount of say 50 million would be greatly appreciated…

i do dread the day the reporters and dirt diggers come around to asking me about my drinking… “i may have sipped that shot of maker’s, but i swear i did not swallow!”

[Allan from Fallbrook]

drunkle: A coup d’etat is much more exciting, and will only add to your legend.

Buy a beret, a pearl handled .45, some mirrored sunglasses and a riding crop. You will also have to design and fashion an outrageous uniform replete with epaulets, medals and festooned with brightly colored piping.

I think that you and a handful of dedicated volunteers could seize (for starters) downtown Escondido, or Chula Vista, or even Del Mar (where they’re so soused in the evenings, they wouldn’t even notice). From there, you can build your revolution and head to Sacramento and thence to Washington, DC.

You would need someone to help with the propaganda posters and sloganeering, as well a media person for CNN and MTV. I think this country is ripe for revolution; why not you?

[drunkle]

allan:

i prefer a coupe deville. with a 500 cu firebreathing caddy mill. i’ve got the cop glasses, need to grow out the mullet or da. no beret, they’re lame and hats mess up the do.

i’m hip with costumes and posters and stuff, could do a dexter’s laboratory type thing, lab coat, rubber gloves… or a southern gentleman type thing like colonel sanders, but i’d be general drunkard. posters of britney murphy with the word “Buttocks” would be nice, done in the shepard fairey/andy warhol style…

but in all honesty, i have a hard time seizing parking let alone a town or mall. i’ll have to win the white house the old fashioned way; steal it.

[hipmatt]

Lame videos, just a bunch of propoganda.. and Bush and Christian bashing which is very popular on this board.

[NotCranky]

Drunkle for 50M we get to naming rights to the the White house. After you take us parliamentary, with you becoming prime minister, my wife gets to be queen. Yo will need a first lady and I think that Brittany Murphy will do.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Rus: For someone who pushes the idea of an American Empire so strongly, you seem to be agitating to help start one of your own.

Or maybe I’m misreading this?

I still like the coup idea. Drunkle could become Generalissimo Drunkle Dada, President For Life. I took a little artistic license with Idi Amin’s official title.

[NotCranky]

Just messing around Allan. I am concerned that your prefered method for installing drunkle would not be bloodless and in any case, would create a dynamic tension that given your vast knowlege of history must assume that blood will be spilled eventually.

What’s up with that?

[drunkle]

rus:

you can have the white house. literally. i’d move the casa de presidente to a beach house in san clemente.

and your wife can be queen only if she changes her name to edith. that would in fact be the official title of queen, like cesar, but edith.

that leaves the naming of the country, which you can have. as long as you’re not a corporation. no corporate influence in my regime. rustico’s states of america? united states of rustico? rusticoland?

allan:

are you aspiring to be my secretary of monikers? so be it. and for your edification, i’m not interested in american empire, just benevolent dictatorship. whether they like it or not.

[drunkle]

rus:

you can have the white house. literally. i’d move the casa de presidente to a beach house in san clemente.

and your wife can be queen only if she changes her name to edith. that would in fact be the official title of queen, like cesar, but edith.

that leaves the naming of the country, which you can have. as long as you’re not a corporation. no corporate influence in my regime. rustico’s states of america? united states of rustico? rusticoland?

allan:

are you aspiring to be my secretary of monikers? so be it. and for your edification, i’m not interested in american empire, just benevolent dictatorship. whether they like it or not.

[drunkle]

rus:

you can have the white house. literally. i’d move the casa de presidente to a beach house in san clemente.

and your wife can be queen only if she changes her name to edith. that would in fact be the official title of queen, like cesar, but edith.

that leaves the naming of the country, which you can have. as long as you’re not a corporation. no corporate influence in my regime. rustico’s states of america? united states of rustico? rusticoland?

allan:

are you aspiring to be my secretary of monikers? so be it. and for your edification, i’m not interested in american empire, just benevolent dictatorship. whether they like it or not.

[drunkle]

rus:

you can have the white house. literally. i’d move the casa de presidente to a beach house in san clemente.

and your wife can be queen only if she changes her name to edith. that would in fact be the official title of queen, like cesar, but edith.

that leaves the naming of the country, which you can have. as long as you’re not a corporation. no corporate influence in my regime. rustico’s states of america? united states of rustico? rusticoland?

allan:

are you aspiring to be my secretary of monikers? so be it. and for your edification, i’m not interested in american empire, just benevolent dictatorship. whether they like it or not.

[drunkle]

rus:

you can have the white house. literally. i’d move the casa de presidente to a beach house in san clemente.

and your wife can be queen only if she changes her name to edith. that would in fact be the official title of queen, like cesar, but edith.

that leaves the naming of the country, which you can have. as long as you’re not a corporation. no corporate influence in my regime. rustico’s states of america? united states of rustico? rusticoland?

allan:

are you aspiring to be my secretary of monikers? so be it. and for your edification, i’m not interested in american empire, just benevolent dictatorship. whether they like it or not.

[NotCranky]

Just messing around Allan. I am concerned that your prefered method for installing drunkle would not be bloodless and in any case, would create a dynamic tension that given your vast knowlege of history must assume that blood will be spilled eventually.

What’s up with that?

[NotCranky]

Just messing around Allan. I am concerned that your prefered method for installing drunkle would not be bloodless and in any case, would create a dynamic tension that given your vast knowlege of history must assume that blood will be spilled eventually.

What’s up with that?

[NotCranky]

Just messing around Allan. I am concerned that your prefered method for installing drunkle would not be bloodless and in any case, would create a dynamic tension that given your vast knowlege of history must assume that blood will be spilled eventually.

What’s up with that?

[NotCranky]

Just messing around Allan. I am concerned that your prefered method for installing drunkle would not be bloodless and in any case, would create a dynamic tension that given your vast knowlege of history must assume that blood will be spilled eventually.

What’s up with that?

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Rus: For someone who pushes the idea of an American Empire so strongly, you seem to be agitating to help start one of your own.

Or maybe I’m misreading this?

I still like the coup idea. Drunkle could become Generalissimo Drunkle Dada, President For Life. I took a little artistic license with Idi Amin’s official title.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Rus: For someone who pushes the idea of an American Empire so strongly, you seem to be agitating to help start one of your own.

Or maybe I’m misreading this?

I still like the coup idea. Drunkle could become Generalissimo Drunkle Dada, President For Life. I took a little artistic license with Idi Amin’s official title.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Rus: For someone who pushes the idea of an American Empire so strongly, you seem to be agitating to help start one of your own.

Or maybe I’m misreading this?

I still like the coup idea. Drunkle could become Generalissimo Drunkle Dada, President For Life. I took a little artistic license with Idi Amin’s official title.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Rus: For someone who pushes the idea of an American Empire so strongly, you seem to be agitating to help start one of your own.

Or maybe I’m misreading this?

I still like the coup idea. Drunkle could become Generalissimo Drunkle Dada, President For Life. I took a little artistic license with Idi Amin’s official title.

[NotCranky]

Drunkle for 50M we get to naming rights to the the White house. After you take us parliamentary, with you becoming prime minister, my wife gets to be queen. Yo will need a first lady and I think that Brittany Murphy will do.

[NotCranky]

Drunkle for 50M we get to naming rights to the the White house. After you take us parliamentary, with you becoming prime minister, my wife gets to be queen. Yo will need a first lady and I think that Brittany Murphy will do.

[NotCranky]

Drunkle for 50M we get to naming rights to the the White house. After you take us parliamentary, with you becoming prime minister, my wife gets to be queen. Yo will need a first lady and I think that Brittany Murphy will do.

[NotCranky]

Drunkle for 50M we get to naming rights to the the White house. After you take us parliamentary, with you becoming prime minister, my wife gets to be queen. Yo will need a first lady and I think that Brittany Murphy will do.

[hipmatt]

Lame videos, just a bunch of propoganda.. and Bush and Christian bashing which is very popular on this board.

[hipmatt]

Lame videos, just a bunch of propoganda.. and Bush and Christian bashing which is very popular on this board.

[hipmatt]

Lame videos, just a bunch of propoganda.. and Bush and Christian bashing which is very popular on this board.

[hipmatt]

Lame videos, just a bunch of propoganda.. and Bush and Christian bashing which is very popular on this board.

[drunkle]

allan:

i prefer a coupe deville. with a 500 cu firebreathing caddy mill. i’ve got the cop glasses, need to grow out the mullet or da. no beret, they’re lame and hats mess up the do.

i’m hip with costumes and posters and stuff, could do a dexter’s laboratory type thing, lab coat, rubber gloves… or a southern gentleman type thing like colonel sanders, but i’d be general drunkard. posters of britney murphy with the word “Buttocks” would be nice, done in the shepard fairey/andy warhol style…

but in all honesty, i have a hard time seizing parking let alone a town or mall. i’ll have to win the white house the old fashioned way; steal it.

[drunkle]

allan:

i prefer a coupe deville. with a 500 cu firebreathing caddy mill. i’ve got the cop glasses, need to grow out the mullet or da. no beret, they’re lame and hats mess up the do.

i’m hip with costumes and posters and stuff, could do a dexter’s laboratory type thing, lab coat, rubber gloves… or a southern gentleman type thing like colonel sanders, but i’d be general drunkard. posters of britney murphy with the word “Buttocks” would be nice, done in the shepard fairey/andy warhol style…

but in all honesty, i have a hard time seizing parking let alone a town or mall. i’ll have to win the white house the old fashioned way; steal it.

[drunkle]

allan:

i prefer a coupe deville. with a 500 cu firebreathing caddy mill. i’ve got the cop glasses, need to grow out the mullet or da. no beret, they’re lame and hats mess up the do.

i’m hip with costumes and posters and stuff, could do a dexter’s laboratory type thing, lab coat, rubber gloves… or a southern gentleman type thing like colonel sanders, but i’d be general drunkard. posters of britney murphy with the word “Buttocks” would be nice, done in the shepard fairey/andy warhol style…

but in all honesty, i have a hard time seizing parking let alone a town or mall. i’ll have to win the white house the old fashioned way; steal it.

[drunkle]

allan:

i prefer a coupe deville. with a 500 cu firebreathing caddy mill. i’ve got the cop glasses, need to grow out the mullet or da. no beret, they’re lame and hats mess up the do.

i’m hip with costumes and posters and stuff, could do a dexter’s laboratory type thing, lab coat, rubber gloves… or a southern gentleman type thing like colonel sanders, but i’d be general drunkard. posters of britney murphy with the word “Buttocks” would be nice, done in the shepard fairey/andy warhol style…

but in all honesty, i have a hard time seizing parking let alone a town or mall. i’ll have to win the white house the old fashioned way; steal it.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

drunkle: A coup d’etat is much more exciting, and will only add to your legend.

Buy a beret, a pearl handled .45, some mirrored sunglasses and a riding crop. You will also have to design and fashion an outrageous uniform replete with epaulets, medals and festooned with brightly colored piping.

I think that you and a handful of dedicated volunteers could seize (for starters) downtown Escondido, or Chula Vista, or even Del Mar (where they’re so soused in the evenings, they wouldn’t even notice). From there, you can build your revolution and head to Sacramento and thence to Washington, DC.

You would need someone to help with the propaganda posters and sloganeering, as well a media person for CNN and MTV. I think this country is ripe for revolution; why not you?

[Allan from Fallbrook]

drunkle: A coup d’etat is much more exciting, and will only add to your legend.

Buy a beret, a pearl handled .45, some mirrored sunglasses and a riding crop. You will also have to design and fashion an outrageous uniform replete with epaulets, medals and festooned with brightly colored piping.

I think that you and a handful of dedicated volunteers could seize (for starters) downtown Escondido, or Chula Vista, or even Del Mar (where they’re so soused in the evenings, they wouldn’t even notice). From there, you can build your revolution and head to Sacramento and thence to Washington, DC.

You would need someone to help with the propaganda posters and sloganeering, as well a media person for CNN and MTV. I think this country is ripe for revolution; why not you?

[Allan from Fallbrook]

drunkle: A coup d’etat is much more exciting, and will only add to your legend.

Buy a beret, a pearl handled .45, some mirrored sunglasses and a riding crop. You will also have to design and fashion an outrageous uniform replete with epaulets, medals and festooned with brightly colored piping.

I think that you and a handful of dedicated volunteers could seize (for starters) downtown Escondido, or Chula Vista, or even Del Mar (where they’re so soused in the evenings, they wouldn’t even notice). From there, you can build your revolution and head to Sacramento and thence to Washington, DC.

You would need someone to help with the propaganda posters and sloganeering, as well a media person for CNN and MTV. I think this country is ripe for revolution; why not you?

[Allan from Fallbrook]

drunkle: A coup d’etat is much more exciting, and will only add to your legend.

Buy a beret, a pearl handled .45, some mirrored sunglasses and a riding crop. You will also have to design and fashion an outrageous uniform replete with epaulets, medals and festooned with brightly colored piping.

I think that you and a handful of dedicated volunteers could seize (for starters) downtown Escondido, or Chula Vista, or even Del Mar (where they’re so soused in the evenings, they wouldn’t even notice). From there, you can build your revolution and head to Sacramento and thence to Washington, DC.

You would need someone to help with the propaganda posters and sloganeering, as well a media person for CNN and MTV. I think this country is ripe for revolution; why not you?

[drunkle]

rus:

thanks for your vote of confidence. would you mind helping my cause some more by donating to my campaign? just a small tax deductible amount of say 50 million would be greatly appreciated…

i do dread the day the reporters and dirt diggers come around to asking me about my drinking… “i may have sipped that shot of maker’s, but i swear i did not swallow!”

[drunkle]

rus:

thanks for your vote of confidence. would you mind helping my cause some more by donating to my campaign? just a small tax deductible amount of say 50 million would be greatly appreciated…

i do dread the day the reporters and dirt diggers come around to asking me about my drinking… “i may have sipped that shot of maker’s, but i swear i did not swallow!”

[drunkle]

rus:

thanks for your vote of confidence. would you mind helping my cause some more by donating to my campaign? just a small tax deductible amount of say 50 million would be greatly appreciated…

i do dread the day the reporters and dirt diggers come around to asking me about my drinking… “i may have sipped that shot of maker’s, but i swear i did not swallow!”

[drunkle]

rus:

thanks for your vote of confidence. would you mind helping my cause some more by donating to my campaign? just a small tax deductible amount of say 50 million would be greatly appreciated…

i do dread the day the reporters and dirt diggers come around to asking me about my drinking… “i may have sipped that shot of maker’s, but i swear i did not swallow!”

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Dukehorn: I would cheerfully attempt to defend Coulter’s scholarship, if I felt it existed. I made it clear that she is nothing other than entertainment value, and a shock jock used by the right as a lightning rod.

I would also point out that attempting a linkage between a professorship and a commensurate standard of care when discussing Naomi Wolf’s work is specious, at best. If an author is representing things as facts, then a responsibility exists as regards research, annotation and proper attribution. This is the same beef I have with Michael Moore and his “documentaries”. He is a propagandist, pure and simple, with a very loose grasp of timelines, facts, and supporting documentation. I would characterize Coulter, Wolf and Moore as all occupying the same ground: Churning out propaganda designed to inflame and incite, but not educate.

There is no way that I would even attempt to argue that Coulter is not a hate monger. As I just said, she is there to inflame and incite, not be the sweet voice of reason. She plays the role of Leni Riefenstahl to perfection, and let’s leave it at that.

As to Wolf attempting to make the world a better place, well, her history shows she is a self-serving, self-aggrandizing publicity and attention hound, and also known for pushing a very aggressive, and somewhat hateful, post-feminist agenda.

On the German versus Japanese front: There is an excellent book called “War Without Mercy” that does a thorough job of discussing what the author calls the “two wars” (European Theater of Operations and Pacific Theater of Operations). Rather than attempting to go into any depth, suffice it to say there is no way an atomic bomb would have been dropped on Berlin.

Personally, my uncle, who was a Marine fighter pilot in WWII, told me how the flight instructors said that Japanese pilots had poor eyesight (because of their slanted eyes), poor reflexes (too much rice in their diet) and lacked proper motor skills (apparently chalked up to being carried around on their mother’s backs for too long). Obviously, none of this was true (the Japanese were excellent pilots), but it goes to your theory as to how American servicemen perceived German and Japanese adversaries differently.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Dukehorn: I would cheerfully attempt to defend Coulter’s scholarship, if I felt it existed. I made it clear that she is nothing other than entertainment value, and a shock jock used by the right as a lightning rod.

I would also point out that attempting a linkage between a professorship and a commensurate standard of care when discussing Naomi Wolf’s work is specious, at best. If an author is representing things as facts, then a responsibility exists as regards research, annotation and proper attribution. This is the same beef I have with Michael Moore and his “documentaries”. He is a propagandist, pure and simple, with a very loose grasp of timelines, facts, and supporting documentation. I would characterize Coulter, Wolf and Moore as all occupying the same ground: Churning out propaganda designed to inflame and incite, but not educate.

There is no way that I would even attempt to argue that Coulter is not a hate monger. As I just said, she is there to inflame and incite, not be the sweet voice of reason. She plays the role of Leni Riefenstahl to perfection, and let’s leave it at that.

As to Wolf attempting to make the world a better place, well, her history shows she is a self-serving, self-aggrandizing publicity and attention hound, and also known for pushing a very aggressive, and somewhat hateful, post-feminist agenda.

On the German versus Japanese front: There is an excellent book called “War Without Mercy” that does a thorough job of discussing what the author calls the “two wars” (European Theater of Operations and Pacific Theater of Operations). Rather than attempting to go into any depth, suffice it to say there is no way an atomic bomb would have been dropped on Berlin.

Personally, my uncle, who was a Marine fighter pilot in WWII, told me how the flight instructors said that Japanese pilots had poor eyesight (because of their slanted eyes), poor reflexes (too much rice in their diet) and lacked proper motor skills (apparently chalked up to being carried around on their mother’s backs for too long). Obviously, none of this was true (the Japanese were excellent pilots), but it goes to your theory as to how American servicemen perceived German and Japanese adversaries differently.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Dukehorn: I would cheerfully attempt to defend Coulter’s scholarship, if I felt it existed. I made it clear that she is nothing other than entertainment value, and a shock jock used by the right as a lightning rod.

I would also point out that attempting a linkage between a professorship and a commensurate standard of care when discussing Naomi Wolf’s work is specious, at best. If an author is representing things as facts, then a responsibility exists as regards research, annotation and proper attribution. This is the same beef I have with Michael Moore and his “documentaries”. He is a propagandist, pure and simple, with a very loose grasp of timelines, facts, and supporting documentation. I would characterize Coulter, Wolf and Moore as all occupying the same ground: Churning out propaganda designed to inflame and incite, but not educate.

There is no way that I would even attempt to argue that Coulter is not a hate monger. As I just said, she is there to inflame and incite, not be the sweet voice of reason. She plays the role of Leni Riefenstahl to perfection, and let’s leave it at that.

As to Wolf attempting to make the world a better place, well, her history shows she is a self-serving, self-aggrandizing publicity and attention hound, and also known for pushing a very aggressive, and somewhat hateful, post-feminist agenda.

On the German versus Japanese front: There is an excellent book called “War Without Mercy” that does a thorough job of discussing what the author calls the “two wars” (European Theater of Operations and Pacific Theater of Operations). Rather than attempting to go into any depth, suffice it to say there is no way an atomic bomb would have been dropped on Berlin.

Personally, my uncle, who was a Marine fighter pilot in WWII, told me how the flight instructors said that Japanese pilots had poor eyesight (because of their slanted eyes), poor reflexes (too much rice in their diet) and lacked proper motor skills (apparently chalked up to being carried around on their mother’s backs for too long). Obviously, none of this was true (the Japanese were excellent pilots), but it goes to your theory as to how American servicemen perceived German and Japanese adversaries differently.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Dukehorn: I would cheerfully attempt to defend Coulter’s scholarship, if I felt it existed. I made it clear that she is nothing other than entertainment value, and a shock jock used by the right as a lightning rod.

I would also point out that attempting a linkage between a professorship and a commensurate standard of care when discussing Naomi Wolf’s work is specious, at best. If an author is representing things as facts, then a responsibility exists as regards research, annotation and proper attribution. This is the same beef I have with Michael Moore and his “documentaries”. He is a propagandist, pure and simple, with a very loose grasp of timelines, facts, and supporting documentation. I would characterize Coulter, Wolf and Moore as all occupying the same ground: Churning out propaganda designed to inflame and incite, but not educate.

There is no way that I would even attempt to argue that Coulter is not a hate monger. As I just said, she is there to inflame and incite, not be the sweet voice of reason. She plays the role of Leni Riefenstahl to perfection, and let’s leave it at that.

As to Wolf attempting to make the world a better place, well, her history shows she is a self-serving, self-aggrandizing publicity and attention hound, and also known for pushing a very aggressive, and somewhat hateful, post-feminist agenda.

On the German versus Japanese front: There is an excellent book called “War Without Mercy” that does a thorough job of discussing what the author calls the “two wars” (European Theater of Operations and Pacific Theater of Operations). Rather than attempting to go into any depth, suffice it to say there is no way an atomic bomb would have been dropped on Berlin.

Personally, my uncle, who was a Marine fighter pilot in WWII, told me how the flight instructors said that Japanese pilots had poor eyesight (because of their slanted eyes), poor reflexes (too much rice in their diet) and lacked proper motor skills (apparently chalked up to being carried around on their mother’s backs for too long). Obviously, none of this was true (the Japanese were excellent pilots), but it goes to your theory as to how American servicemen perceived German and Japanese adversaries differently.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Dukehorn: I would cheerfully attempt to defend Coulter’s scholarship, if I felt it existed. I made it clear that she is nothing other than entertainment value, and a shock jock used by the right as a lightning rod.

I would also point out that attempting a linkage between a professorship and a commensurate standard of care when discussing Naomi Wolf’s work is specious, at best. If an author is representing things as facts, then a responsibility exists as regards research, annotation and proper attribution. This is the same beef I have with Michael Moore and his “documentaries”. He is a propagandist, pure and simple, with a very loose grasp of timelines, facts, and supporting documentation. I would characterize Coulter, Wolf and Moore as all occupying the same ground: Churning out propaganda designed to inflame and incite, but not educate.

There is no way that I would even attempt to argue that Coulter is not a hate monger. As I just said, she is there to inflame and incite, not be the sweet voice of reason. She plays the role of Leni Riefenstahl to perfection, and let’s leave it at that.

As to Wolf attempting to make the world a better place, well, her history shows she is a self-serving, self-aggrandizing publicity and attention hound, and also known for pushing a very aggressive, and somewhat hateful, post-feminist agenda.

On the German versus Japanese front: There is an excellent book called “War Without Mercy” that does a thorough job of discussing what the author calls the “two wars” (European Theater of Operations and Pacific Theater of Operations). Rather than attempting to go into any depth, suffice it to say there is no way an atomic bomb would have been dropped on Berlin.

Personally, my uncle, who was a Marine fighter pilot in WWII, told me how the flight instructors said that Japanese pilots had poor eyesight (because of their slanted eyes), poor reflexes (too much rice in their diet) and lacked proper motor skills (apparently chalked up to being carried around on their mother’s backs for too long). Obviously, none of this was true (the Japanese were excellent pilots), but it goes to your theory as to how American servicemen perceived German and Japanese adversaries differently.

[Dukehorn]

Personally I would like Allan to attempt to do the same type of analysis of Ann Coulter’s scholarship and perhaps we can compare notes. You do know why she’s given up putting footnotes in her recent books?

Calling Wolf’s work scholarship is a misnomer since (last I checked) she is not an academic bound by the strictures of “good scholarship”. She is a feminist writer pure and simple. In fact, a comparison of her work to Coulter’s is appropriate since they both (in essence) are hacks.

However, in reading their respective books, who’s the true “hate” monger and who is the person attempting to make our society a better place? I’d say Coulter for the former and Wolf for the latter (and you might disagree).

Allan, way back in undergrad, for my military propaganda class (one of my undergrad majors was military history), I did a paper on how the press and GIs perceived and treated Germans versus the Japanese (including POWs and trophies of war). Have an educated guess on what the general trend line was?

[Dukehorn]

Personally I would like Allan to attempt to do the same type of analysis of Ann Coulter’s scholarship and perhaps we can compare notes. You do know why she’s given up putting footnotes in her recent books?

Calling Wolf’s work scholarship is a misnomer since (last I checked) she is not an academic bound by the strictures of “good scholarship”. She is a feminist writer pure and simple. In fact, a comparison of her work to Coulter’s is appropriate since they both (in essence) are hacks.

However, in reading their respective books, who’s the true “hate” monger and who is the person attempting to make our society a better place? I’d say Coulter for the former and Wolf for the latter (and you might disagree).

Allan, way back in undergrad, for my military propaganda class (one of my undergrad majors was military history), I did a paper on how the press and GIs perceived and treated Germans versus the Japanese (including POWs and trophies of war). Have an educated guess on what the general trend line was?

[Dukehorn]

Personally I would like Allan to attempt to do the same type of analysis of Ann Coulter’s scholarship and perhaps we can compare notes. You do know why she’s given up putting footnotes in her recent books?

Calling Wolf’s work scholarship is a misnomer since (last I checked) she is not an academic bound by the strictures of “good scholarship”. She is a feminist writer pure and simple. In fact, a comparison of her work to Coulter’s is appropriate since they both (in essence) are hacks.

However, in reading their respective books, who’s the true “hate” monger and who is the person attempting to make our society a better place? I’d say Coulter for the former and Wolf for the latter (and you might disagree).

Allan, way back in undergrad, for my military propaganda class (one of my undergrad majors was military history), I did a paper on how the press and GIs perceived and treated Germans versus the Japanese (including POWs and trophies of war). Have an educated guess on what the general trend line was?

[Dukehorn]

Personally I would like Allan to attempt to do the same type of analysis of Ann Coulter’s scholarship and perhaps we can compare notes. You do know why she’s given up putting footnotes in her recent books?

Calling Wolf’s work scholarship is a misnomer since (last I checked) she is not an academic bound by the strictures of “good scholarship”. She is a feminist writer pure and simple. In fact, a comparison of her work to Coulter’s is appropriate since they both (in essence) are hacks.

However, in reading their respective books, who’s the true “hate” monger and who is the person attempting to make our society a better place? I’d say Coulter for the former and Wolf for the latter (and you might disagree).

Allan, way back in undergrad, for my military propaganda class (one of my undergrad majors was military history), I did a paper on how the press and GIs perceived and treated Germans versus the Japanese (including POWs and trophies of war). Have an educated guess on what the general trend line was?

[NotCranky]

Yeah, I would think Rustico would! He lives in the city. We choose where we live and in many ways it represents so much about us, whether we like it or not.

Hi Ricechex,
Actually I live in the hills north or Jamul as of 3 years ago. I lived in Normal Heights and Talmage most of my adult life. I don’t get out much, but when I do it is often to go back to Lestat’s which is where I met my wife BTW.

I watched your movie(naomi wolf) and had previously watched the zeitgeist movie which was posted on another thread. For me it ahs merit onthe basis of the topic it raises alone. So many important topics are raised in these movies. I don’t see how else the cards are going to get put on the table in front of an audience.

It is easy to see her bias too. I agree with Allan her examples of breaches of civil liberties against people like me you are pretty open to criticism. The incidences of forced breast milk drinking and tasering of loud mouthed hyper-active college students for example. Those items could be chalked up to the fact that in a country as populated with primates and as complex as ours is, stupid things are going to happen. People are going to make mistakes.

That said I am glad for her voice. Maybe it takes irresponsible hyperbole and other shenanigans to stir people up currently. Whatever the case I am ready to see a “movement” of some kind.

One thing I am sure of we do not have representative goevernment, even if it is true that we have what we deserve. On the other hand, maybe we do have representative government and I am just and minority type oddball.

Just in case, as a test, I think we should rip the arms off a few politicians from both sides as they reach out to take handouts from lobbyist or to shake the hands of board members who are welcoming them to their new highly salaried position in a corporation that the have been in cahoots with for years. After that, if nothing changes after these subtle reforms,I will believe democracy is working.

First priority though.. we must get drunkle elected president.

Taser incident.

[NotCranky]

Yeah, I would think Rustico would! He lives in the city. We choose where we live and in many ways it represents so much about us, whether we like it or not.

Hi Ricechex,
Actually I live in the hills north or Jamul as of 3 years ago. I lived in Normal Heights and Talmage most of my adult life. I don’t get out much, but when I do it is often to go back to Lestat’s which is where I met my wife BTW.

I watched your movie(naomi wolf) and had previously watched the zeitgeist movie which was posted on another thread. For me it ahs merit onthe basis of the topic it raises alone. So many important topics are raised in these movies. I don’t see how else the cards are going to get put on the table in front of an audience.

It is easy to see her bias too. I agree with Allan her examples of breaches of civil liberties against people like me you are pretty open to criticism. The incidences of forced breast milk drinking and tasering of loud mouthed hyper-active college students for example. Those items could be chalked up to the fact that in a country as populated with primates and as complex as ours is, stupid things are going to happen. People are going to make mistakes.

That said I am glad for her voice. Maybe it takes irresponsible hyperbole and other shenanigans to stir people up currently. Whatever the case I am ready to see a “movement” of some kind.

One thing I am sure of we do not have representative goevernment, even if it is true that we have what we deserve. On the other hand, maybe we do have representative government and I am just and minority type oddball.

Just in case, as a test, I think we should rip the arms off a few politicians from both sides as they reach out to take handouts from lobbyist or to shake the hands of board members who are welcoming them to their new highly salaried position in a corporation that the have been in cahoots with for years. After that, if nothing changes after these subtle reforms,I will believe democracy is working.

First priority though.. we must get drunkle elected president.

Taser incident.

[NotCranky]

Yeah, I would think Rustico would! He lives in the city. We choose where we live and in many ways it represents so much about us, whether we like it or not.

Hi Ricechex,
Actually I live in the hills north or Jamul as of 3 years ago. I lived in Normal Heights and Talmage most of my adult life. I don’t get out much, but when I do it is often to go back to Lestat’s which is where I met my wife BTW.

I watched your movie(naomi wolf) and had previously watched the zeitgeist movie which was posted on another thread. For me it ahs merit onthe basis of the topic it raises alone. So many important topics are raised in these movies. I don’t see how else the cards are going to get put on the table in front of an audience.

It is easy to see her bias too. I agree with Allan her examples of breaches of civil liberties against people like me you are pretty open to criticism. The incidences of forced breast milk drinking and tasering of loud mouthed hyper-active college students for example. Those items could be chalked up to the fact that in a country as populated with primates and as complex as ours is, stupid things are going to happen. People are going to make mistakes.

That said I am glad for her voice. Maybe it takes irresponsible hyperbole and other shenanigans to stir people up currently. Whatever the case I am ready to see a “movement” of some kind.

One thing I am sure of we do not have representative goevernment, even if it is true that we have what we deserve. On the other hand, maybe we do have representative government and I am just and minority type oddball.

Just in case, as a test, I think we should rip the arms off a few politicians from both sides as they reach out to take handouts from lobbyist or to shake the hands of board members who are welcoming them to their new highly salaried position in a corporation that the have been in cahoots with for years. After that, if nothing changes after these subtle reforms,I will believe democracy is working.

First priority though.. we must get drunkle elected president.

Taser incident.

[NotCranky]

Yeah, I would think Rustico would! He lives in the city. We choose where we live and in many ways it represents so much about us, whether we like it or not.

Hi Ricechex,
Actually I live in the hills north or Jamul as of 3 years ago. I lived in Normal Heights and Talmage most of my adult life. I don’t get out much, but when I do it is often to go back to Lestat’s which is where I met my wife BTW.

I watched your movie(naomi wolf) and had previously watched the zeitgeist movie which was posted on another thread. For me it ahs merit onthe basis of the topic it raises alone. So many important topics are raised in these movies. I don’t see how else the cards are going to get put on the table in front of an audience.

It is easy to see her bias too. I agree with Allan her examples of breaches of civil liberties against people like me you are pretty open to criticism. The incidences of forced breast milk drinking and tasering of loud mouthed hyper-active college students for example. Those items could be chalked up to the fact that in a country as populated with primates and as complex as ours is, stupid things are going to happen. People are going to make mistakes.

That said I am glad for her voice. Maybe it takes irresponsible hyperbole and other shenanigans to stir people up currently. Whatever the case I am ready to see a “movement” of some kind.

One thing I am sure of we do not have representative goevernment, even if it is true that we have what we deserve. On the other hand, maybe we do have representative government and I am just and minority type oddball.

Just in case, as a test, I think we should rip the arms off a few politicians from both sides as they reach out to take handouts from lobbyist or to shake the hands of board members who are welcoming them to their new highly salaried position in a corporation that the have been in cahoots with for years. After that, if nothing changes after these subtle reforms,I will believe democracy is working.

First priority though.. we must get drunkle elected president.

Taser incident.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

drunkle: Yeah, I might not have “called a spade a spade”, but I’ve been clear as to what I think, and believe.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

drunkle: Yeah, I might not have “called a spade a spade”, but I’ve been clear as to what I think, and believe.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

drunkle: Yeah, I might not have “called a spade a spade”, but I’ve been clear as to what I think, and believe.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

drunkle: Yeah, I might not have “called a spade a spade”, but I’ve been clear as to what I think, and believe.

[drunkle]

allan. you’re the one couching words. not me.

[drunkle]

allan. you’re the one couching words. not me.

[drunkle]

allan. you’re the one couching words. not me.

[drunkle]

allan. you’re the one couching words. not me.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

drunkle: I could argue that gold’s post wasn’t ad hominem, but I would be wrong, and we both know it. However, parts of it were not, and correctly made the point that Wolf, like Kunstler, or Chomsky, is a hack. That is not ad hominem, and is fully supported by facts.

This discussion between you and I (on this thread and the other) underscores an unfortunate point: We get caught up in parsing words, or arguing certain portions of a posting, that we lose the overall tenor of the argument and start bandying semantics.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

drunkle: I could argue that gold’s post wasn’t ad hominem, but I would be wrong, and we both know it. However, parts of it were not, and correctly made the point that Wolf, like Kunstler, or Chomsky, is a hack. That is not ad hominem, and is fully supported by facts.

This discussion between you and I (on this thread and the other) underscores an unfortunate point: We get caught up in parsing words, or arguing certain portions of a posting, that we lose the overall tenor of the argument and start bandying semantics.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

drunkle: I could argue that gold’s post wasn’t ad hominem, but I would be wrong, and we both know it. However, parts of it were not, and correctly made the point that Wolf, like Kunstler, or Chomsky, is a hack. That is not ad hominem, and is fully supported by facts.

This discussion between you and I (on this thread and the other) underscores an unfortunate point: We get caught up in parsing words, or arguing certain portions of a posting, that we lose the overall tenor of the argument and start bandying semantics.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

drunkle: I could argue that gold’s post wasn’t ad hominem, but I would be wrong, and we both know it. However, parts of it were not, and correctly made the point that Wolf, like Kunstler, or Chomsky, is a hack. That is not ad hominem, and is fully supported by facts.

This discussion between you and I (on this thread and the other) underscores an unfortunate point: We get caught up in parsing words, or arguing certain portions of a posting, that we lose the overall tenor of the argument and start bandying semantics.

[drunkle]

allan:

are you disagreeing with me fundamentally that gold’s post was pure ad hominem? he posited that wolf was an academic loser trying to make a buck. that’s it. pure personal attack and no substance. whether or not that’s a “strongly stated opinion” has nothing to do with whether or not it was a personal attack that completely avoids the issues. exactly as you claim that i’m doing in the obama thread.

[drunkle]

allan:

are you disagreeing with me fundamentally that gold’s post was pure ad hominem? he posited that wolf was an academic loser trying to make a buck. that’s it. pure personal attack and no substance. whether or not that’s a “strongly stated opinion” has nothing to do with whether or not it was a personal attack that completely avoids the issues. exactly as you claim that i’m doing in the obama thread.

[drunkle]

allan:

are you disagreeing with me fundamentally that gold’s post was pure ad hominem? he posited that wolf was an academic loser trying to make a buck. that’s it. pure personal attack and no substance. whether or not that’s a “strongly stated opinion” has nothing to do with whether or not it was a personal attack that completely avoids the issues. exactly as you claim that i’m doing in the obama thread.

[drunkle]

allan:

are you disagreeing with me fundamentally that gold’s post was pure ad hominem? he posited that wolf was an academic loser trying to make a buck. that’s it. pure personal attack and no substance. whether or not that’s a “strongly stated opinion” has nothing to do with whether or not it was a personal attack that completely avoids the issues. exactly as you claim that i’m doing in the obama thread.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

drunkle: Understood. My issue is that any strongly stated opinion becomes ad hominem. My understanding of the term indicates that it means a personal attack without basis.

While you weren’t necessarily soliciting what I followed up with, it does make the point that one can make the point that someone is a dolt, and then drive it home with examples.

I don’t use the term “dolt” lightly, either. Nor do I reserve it solely for Lefties. Plenty of those on the right have earned the moniker as well.

I made the point on another thread (using you, as a matter of fact), that we are throwing certain terms around, rather than facing off and arguing the facts or being forced to support our assertions with examples. I don’t consider gold to be a racist. While he might have been more delicate in stating his position, I don’t feel it was without merit.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

drunkle: Understood. My issue is that any strongly stated opinion becomes ad hominem. My understanding of the term indicates that it means a personal attack without basis.

While you weren’t necessarily soliciting what I followed up with, it does make the point that one can make the point that someone is a dolt, and then drive it home with examples.

I don’t use the term “dolt” lightly, either. Nor do I reserve it solely for Lefties. Plenty of those on the right have earned the moniker as well.

I made the point on another thread (using you, as a matter of fact), that we are throwing certain terms around, rather than facing off and arguing the facts or being forced to support our assertions with examples. I don’t consider gold to be a racist. While he might have been more delicate in stating his position, I don’t feel it was without merit.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

drunkle: Understood. My issue is that any strongly stated opinion becomes ad hominem. My understanding of the term indicates that it means a personal attack without basis.

While you weren’t necessarily soliciting what I followed up with, it does make the point that one can make the point that someone is a dolt, and then drive it home with examples.

I don’t use the term “dolt” lightly, either. Nor do I reserve it solely for Lefties. Plenty of those on the right have earned the moniker as well.

I made the point on another thread (using you, as a matter of fact), that we are throwing certain terms around, rather than facing off and arguing the facts or being forced to support our assertions with examples. I don’t consider gold to be a racist. While he might have been more delicate in stating his position, I don’t feel it was without merit.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

drunkle: Understood. My issue is that any strongly stated opinion becomes ad hominem. My understanding of the term indicates that it means a personal attack without basis.

While you weren’t necessarily soliciting what I followed up with, it does make the point that one can make the point that someone is a dolt, and then drive it home with examples.

I don’t use the term “dolt” lightly, either. Nor do I reserve it solely for Lefties. Plenty of those on the right have earned the moniker as well.

I made the point on another thread (using you, as a matter of fact), that we are throwing certain terms around, rather than facing off and arguing the facts or being forced to support our assertions with examples. I don’t consider gold to be a racist. While he might have been more delicate in stating his position, I don’t feel it was without merit.

[Ricechex]

Allan from Fallbrook–are you a professional with DOD? Admiral? How many stars? You certainly know a lot about a lot of things, and you write really well. Eloquent, wasn’t that? I figured you would respond and was curious to what you would say. Hard to argue with a dude like you!

Drunkle–you are so spot on. Also, I think Rescue Remedy might work for homeless people. Will St. Vincent De Paul have any beds after you become the Rescue Remedy King of North Park?

Arraya, I am interested about you too. You write well too, I have read your posts over a couple of times.

Hey, why hasn’t esmith chimed in?

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Ricechex: Nope, not an admiral. Not even ex-Navy, as a matter of fact. Just a lowly former Army 1st Lieutenant, actually. Thanks for the compliment. I don’t think I am earning any plaudits or friends over the last couple of days! Even Rustico is coming after me now.

[Ricechex]

Yeah, I would think Rustico would! He lives in the city. We choose where we live and in many ways it represents so much about us, whether we like it or not. I could live in a fancy small apartment in La Jolla, or samll SFR in North Park. Give me 92104 any day. Aaah…hah…drawn it back to the housing market!

[Ricechex]

Yeah, I would think Rustico would! He lives in the city. We choose where we live and in many ways it represents so much about us, whether we like it or not. I could live in a fancy small apartment in La Jolla, or samll SFR in North Park. Give me 92104 any day. Aaah…hah…drawn it back to the housing market!

[Ricechex]

Yeah, I would think Rustico would! He lives in the city. We choose where we live and in many ways it represents so much about us, whether we like it or not. I could live in a fancy small apartment in La Jolla, or samll SFR in North Park. Give me 92104 any day. Aaah…hah…drawn it back to the housing market!

[Ricechex]

Yeah, I would think Rustico would! He lives in the city. We choose where we live and in many ways it represents so much about us, whether we like it or not. I could live in a fancy small apartment in La Jolla, or samll SFR in North Park. Give me 92104 any day. Aaah…hah…drawn it back to the housing market!

[Ricechex]

Yeah, I would think Rustico would! He lives in the city. We choose where we live and in many ways it represents so much about us, whether we like it or not. I could live in a fancy small apartment in La Jolla, or samll SFR in North Park. Give me 92104 any day. Aaah…hah…drawn it back to the housing market!

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Ricechex: Nope, not an admiral. Not even ex-Navy, as a matter of fact. Just a lowly former Army 1st Lieutenant, actually. Thanks for the compliment. I don’t think I am earning any plaudits or friends over the last couple of days! Even Rustico is coming after me now.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Ricechex: Nope, not an admiral. Not even ex-Navy, as a matter of fact. Just a lowly former Army 1st Lieutenant, actually. Thanks for the compliment. I don’t think I am earning any plaudits or friends over the last couple of days! Even Rustico is coming after me now.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Ricechex: Nope, not an admiral. Not even ex-Navy, as a matter of fact. Just a lowly former Army 1st Lieutenant, actually. Thanks for the compliment. I don’t think I am earning any plaudits or friends over the last couple of days! Even Rustico is coming after me now.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Ricechex: Nope, not an admiral. Not even ex-Navy, as a matter of fact. Just a lowly former Army 1st Lieutenant, actually. Thanks for the compliment. I don’t think I am earning any plaudits or friends over the last couple of days! Even Rustico is coming after me now.

[Ricechex]

Allan from Fallbrook–are you a professional with DOD? Admiral? How many stars? You certainly know a lot about a lot of things, and you write really well. Eloquent, wasn’t that? I figured you would respond and was curious to what you would say. Hard to argue with a dude like you!

Drunkle–you are so spot on. Also, I think Rescue Remedy might work for homeless people. Will St. Vincent De Paul have any beds after you become the Rescue Remedy King of North Park?

Arraya, I am interested about you too. You write well too, I have read your posts over a couple of times.

Hey, why hasn’t esmith chimed in?

[Ricechex]

Allan from Fallbrook–are you a professional with DOD? Admiral? How many stars? You certainly know a lot about a lot of things, and you write really well. Eloquent, wasn’t that? I figured you would respond and was curious to what you would say. Hard to argue with a dude like you!

Drunkle–you are so spot on. Also, I think Rescue Remedy might work for homeless people. Will St. Vincent De Paul have any beds after you become the Rescue Remedy King of North Park?

Arraya, I am interested about you too. You write well too, I have read your posts over a couple of times.

Hey, why hasn’t esmith chimed in?

[Ricechex]

Allan from Fallbrook–are you a professional with DOD? Admiral? How many stars? You certainly know a lot about a lot of things, and you write really well. Eloquent, wasn’t that? I figured you would respond and was curious to what you would say. Hard to argue with a dude like you!

Drunkle–you are so spot on. Also, I think Rescue Remedy might work for homeless people. Will St. Vincent De Paul have any beds after you become the Rescue Remedy King of North Park?

Arraya, I am interested about you too. You write well too, I have read your posts over a couple of times.

Hey, why hasn’t esmith chimed in?

[Ricechex]

Allan from Fallbrook–are you a professional with DOD? Admiral? How many stars? You certainly know a lot about a lot of things, and you write really well. Eloquent, wasn’t that? I figured you would respond and was curious to what you would say. Hard to argue with a dude like you!

Drunkle–you are so spot on. Also, I think Rescue Remedy might work for homeless people. Will St. Vincent De Paul have any beds after you become the Rescue Remedy King of North Park?

Arraya, I am interested about you too. You write well too, I have read your posts over a couple of times.

Hey, why hasn’t esmith chimed in?

[drunkle]

while i appreciate your more involved and in depth discussion, that wasn’t really my intent. i have no knowledge of the person in question, no experience with her writings or opinions. i neither support nor debunk her positions. i was only faulting the ad hominem.

[drunkle]

while i appreciate your more involved and in depth discussion, that wasn’t really my intent. i have no knowledge of the person in question, no experience with her writings or opinions. i neither support nor debunk her positions. i was only faulting the ad hominem.

[drunkle]

while i appreciate your more involved and in depth discussion, that wasn’t really my intent. i have no knowledge of the person in question, no experience with her writings or opinions. i neither support nor debunk her positions. i was only faulting the ad hominem.

[drunkle]

while i appreciate your more involved and in depth discussion, that wasn’t really my intent. i have no knowledge of the person in question, no experience with her writings or opinions. i neither support nor debunk her positions. i was only faulting the ad hominem.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

drunkle: Fair enough. Rather than pen some overlong response citing chapter and verse, I will confine myself to just hitting the high notes.

In her new book, Wolf uses two extremely preposterous examples as America’s new “fascist drift” and supposed totalitarian repression of “free speaking” individuals. These are Lynne Stewart, who was convicted of aiding and abetting the work of Sheikh Rahman (a convicted terrorist of some note and dedicated anti-American), as well as Adam Gadahn, the self-professed American “voice” of al Qaeda. According to Wolf, the US government’s case against both of these individuals was nothing more than a thinly veiled attempt to silence dissent and “free speakers”. She completely ignores the facts of both cases, as well as failing to note that both individuals were convicted by properly empaneled juries under the watchful eye of both journalists and academics, who would have been the first to cry out if anything untoward were to take place.

She also compares certain safety measures in place at various airports as being in line with security measures practiced by Mussolini’s secret police. These include random checks of baggage and verification that items are what they are represented to be. According to her, Mussolini’s police used similar methods as a means of repression and keeping the populace in line. She attempts to conflate the TSA (Transportation Security Administration) with Mussolini’s secret police, as well as drawing parallels between the use of the word “heimat” (homeland) by the Nazis during the 1930s and 1940s, and America’s creation of a Department of “Homeland” Security. Apparently, our use of the word Homeland and the Nazi use of the word Homeland is not a coincidence. Rather it points to our drift into fascism. I guess it is good we didn’t name it the Department of Fatherland Security.

Her scholarship is sloppy in the sense that she inaptly draws her conclusions between present day US and Hitler’s Germany and Mussolini’s Italy. Simply saying that modern America is “like” fascist Italy or Nazi Germany does not constitute a completed argument. Nor does her hysteria when it comes to implying that somehow the government will come after her personally once it gets wind of her book.

There are quite a few other examples as well. Her book “The Beauty Myth” was shredded by a large number of reviewers (who were largely non-partisan on the issue of feminism), and again largely for the same reasons.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

drunkle: Fair enough. Rather than pen some overlong response citing chapter and verse, I will confine myself to just hitting the high notes.

In her new book, Wolf uses two extremely preposterous examples as America’s new “fascist drift” and supposed totalitarian repression of “free speaking” individuals. These are Lynne Stewart, who was convicted of aiding and abetting the work of Sheikh Rahman (a convicted terrorist of some note and dedicated anti-American), as well as Adam Gadahn, the self-professed American “voice” of al Qaeda. According to Wolf, the US government’s case against both of these individuals was nothing more than a thinly veiled attempt to silence dissent and “free speakers”. She completely ignores the facts of both cases, as well as failing to note that both individuals were convicted by properly empaneled juries under the watchful eye of both journalists and academics, who would have been the first to cry out if anything untoward were to take place.

She also compares certain safety measures in place at various airports as being in line with security measures practiced by Mussolini’s secret police. These include random checks of baggage and verification that items are what they are represented to be. According to her, Mussolini’s police used similar methods as a means of repression and keeping the populace in line. She attempts to conflate the TSA (Transportation Security Administration) with Mussolini’s secret police, as well as drawing parallels between the use of the word “heimat” (homeland) by the Nazis during the 1930s and 1940s, and America’s creation of a Department of “Homeland” Security. Apparently, our use of the word Homeland and the Nazi use of the word Homeland is not a coincidence. Rather it points to our drift into fascism. I guess it is good we didn’t name it the Department of Fatherland Security.

Her scholarship is sloppy in the sense that she inaptly draws her conclusions between present day US and Hitler’s Germany and Mussolini’s Italy. Simply saying that modern America is “like” fascist Italy or Nazi Germany does not constitute a completed argument. Nor does her hysteria when it comes to implying that somehow the government will come after her personally once it gets wind of her book.

There are quite a few other examples as well. Her book “The Beauty Myth” was shredded by a large number of reviewers (who were largely non-partisan on the issue of feminism), and again largely for the same reasons.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

drunkle: Fair enough. Rather than pen some overlong response citing chapter and verse, I will confine myself to just hitting the high notes.

In her new book, Wolf uses two extremely preposterous examples as America’s new “fascist drift” and supposed totalitarian repression of “free speaking” individuals. These are Lynne Stewart, who was convicted of aiding and abetting the work of Sheikh Rahman (a convicted terrorist of some note and dedicated anti-American), as well as Adam Gadahn, the self-professed American “voice” of al Qaeda. According to Wolf, the US government’s case against both of these individuals was nothing more than a thinly veiled attempt to silence dissent and “free speakers”. She completely ignores the facts of both cases, as well as failing to note that both individuals were convicted by properly empaneled juries under the watchful eye of both journalists and academics, who would have been the first to cry out if anything untoward were to take place.

She also compares certain safety measures in place at various airports as being in line with security measures practiced by Mussolini’s secret police. These include random checks of baggage and verification that items are what they are represented to be. According to her, Mussolini’s police used similar methods as a means of repression and keeping the populace in line. She attempts to conflate the TSA (Transportation Security Administration) with Mussolini’s secret police, as well as drawing parallels between the use of the word “heimat” (homeland) by the Nazis during the 1930s and 1940s, and America’s creation of a Department of “Homeland” Security. Apparently, our use of the word Homeland and the Nazi use of the word Homeland is not a coincidence. Rather it points to our drift into fascism. I guess it is good we didn’t name it the Department of Fatherland Security.

Her scholarship is sloppy in the sense that she inaptly draws her conclusions between present day US and Hitler’s Germany and Mussolini’s Italy. Simply saying that modern America is “like” fascist Italy or Nazi Germany does not constitute a completed argument. Nor does her hysteria when it comes to implying that somehow the government will come after her personally once it gets wind of her book.

There are quite a few other examples as well. Her book “The Beauty Myth” was shredded by a large number of reviewers (who were largely non-partisan on the issue of feminism), and again largely for the same reasons.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

drunkle: Fair enough. Rather than pen some overlong response citing chapter and verse, I will confine myself to just hitting the high notes.

In her new book, Wolf uses two extremely preposterous examples as America’s new “fascist drift” and supposed totalitarian repression of “free speaking” individuals. These are Lynne Stewart, who was convicted of aiding and abetting the work of Sheikh Rahman (a convicted terrorist of some note and dedicated anti-American), as well as Adam Gadahn, the self-professed American “voice” of al Qaeda. According to Wolf, the US government’s case against both of these individuals was nothing more than a thinly veiled attempt to silence dissent and “free speakers”. She completely ignores the facts of both cases, as well as failing to note that both individuals were convicted by properly empaneled juries under the watchful eye of both journalists and academics, who would have been the first to cry out if anything untoward were to take place.

She also compares certain safety measures in place at various airports as being in line with security measures practiced by Mussolini’s secret police. These include random checks of baggage and verification that items are what they are represented to be. According to her, Mussolini’s police used similar methods as a means of repression and keeping the populace in line. She attempts to conflate the TSA (Transportation Security Administration) with Mussolini’s secret police, as well as drawing parallels between the use of the word “heimat” (homeland) by the Nazis during the 1930s and 1940s, and America’s creation of a Department of “Homeland” Security. Apparently, our use of the word Homeland and the Nazi use of the word Homeland is not a coincidence. Rather it points to our drift into fascism. I guess it is good we didn’t name it the Department of Fatherland Security.

Her scholarship is sloppy in the sense that she inaptly draws her conclusions between present day US and Hitler’s Germany and Mussolini’s Italy. Simply saying that modern America is “like” fascist Italy or Nazi Germany does not constitute a completed argument. Nor does her hysteria when it comes to implying that somehow the government will come after her personally once it gets wind of her book.

There are quite a few other examples as well. Her book “The Beauty Myth” was shredded by a large number of reviewers (who were largely non-partisan on the issue of feminism), and again largely for the same reasons.

[drunkle]

not as much as gold’s original post. certainly lacking in details, support and substance, however. but judging by his (gold’s) post in the obama thread, i’m seeing the pattern.

qwerty had a good criticism earlier in the thread, one that didn’t require ad hom. your response to his post was also far more evenly written.

[drunkle]

not as much as gold’s original post. certainly lacking in details, support and substance, however. but judging by his (gold’s) post in the obama thread, i’m seeing the pattern.

qwerty had a good criticism earlier in the thread, one that didn’t require ad hom. your response to his post was also far more evenly written.

[drunkle]

not as much as gold’s original post. certainly lacking in details, support and substance, however. but judging by his (gold’s) post in the obama thread, i’m seeing the pattern.

qwerty had a good criticism earlier in the thread, one that didn’t require ad hom. your response to his post was also far more evenly written.

[drunkle]

not as much as gold’s original post. certainly lacking in details, support and substance, however. but judging by his (gold’s) post in the obama thread, i’m seeing the pattern.

qwerty had a good criticism earlier in the thread, one that didn’t require ad hom. your response to his post was also far more evenly written.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

drunkle: I never said I like Ann Coulter. I said she was great entertainment value. As to attacking liberals: I have no issue with liberals. I do, however, have an issue with Lefties. There is a big difference.

As to Naomi Wolf: Her scholarship is a joke, the examples cited in her book are downright laughable, and she has been routinely castigated by her more capable peers for pandering to the extreme elements in the feminist movement. With this new book, she is apparently trying to do the same with the Loony Left.

Is that an ad hom attack?

[Allan from Fallbrook]

drunkle: I never said I like Ann Coulter. I said she was great entertainment value. As to attacking liberals: I have no issue with liberals. I do, however, have an issue with Lefties. There is a big difference.

As to Naomi Wolf: Her scholarship is a joke, the examples cited in her book are downright laughable, and she has been routinely castigated by her more capable peers for pandering to the extreme elements in the feminist movement. With this new book, she is apparently trying to do the same with the Loony Left.

Is that an ad hom attack?

[Allan from Fallbrook]

drunkle: I never said I like Ann Coulter. I said she was great entertainment value. As to attacking liberals: I have no issue with liberals. I do, however, have an issue with Lefties. There is a big difference.

As to Naomi Wolf: Her scholarship is a joke, the examples cited in her book are downright laughable, and she has been routinely castigated by her more capable peers for pandering to the extreme elements in the feminist movement. With this new book, she is apparently trying to do the same with the Loony Left.

Is that an ad hom attack?

[Allan from Fallbrook]

drunkle: I never said I like Ann Coulter. I said she was great entertainment value. As to attacking liberals: I have no issue with liberals. I do, however, have an issue with Lefties. There is a big difference.

As to Naomi Wolf: Her scholarship is a joke, the examples cited in her book are downright laughable, and she has been routinely castigated by her more capable peers for pandering to the extreme elements in the feminist movement. With this new book, she is apparently trying to do the same with the Loony Left.

Is that an ad hom attack?

[drunkle]

gold’s post was nothing but ad hom. there was no substance, just character attacks. “referring to a dolt as a dolt” is just another empty ad hom.

you like ann coulter because she is an author of ad hom political attacks against liberals. simple as that.

edit:

4 years ago, i wonder if you would have labeled Rich as such:

The whackjob needs to pay her rent or at least buy food, so she writes BS books. There are a large number of failed academics and academic wanna-be’s that write books predicting the end of the world, culture, religion, freedom, whatever. It’s like listening to an over-educated carnival barker trying to separate you from your ticket just to get a glimpse of some over-hyped circus act.

after all, 4 years ago, RE was still booming, “carnival barkers” like rich and shiller and schiff were just crying wolf because they’re all bitter renters, right?

[drunkle]

gold’s post was nothing but ad hom. there was no substance, just character attacks. “referring to a dolt as a dolt” is just another empty ad hom.

you like ann coulter because she is an author of ad hom political attacks against liberals. simple as that.

edit:

4 years ago, i wonder if you would have labeled Rich as such:

The whackjob needs to pay her rent or at least buy food, so she writes BS books. There are a large number of failed academics and academic wanna-be’s that write books predicting the end of the world, culture, religion, freedom, whatever. It’s like listening to an over-educated carnival barker trying to separate you from your ticket just to get a glimpse of some over-hyped circus act.

after all, 4 years ago, RE was still booming, “carnival barkers” like rich and shiller and schiff were just crying wolf because they’re all bitter renters, right?

[drunkle]

gold’s post was nothing but ad hom. there was no substance, just character attacks. “referring to a dolt as a dolt” is just another empty ad hom.

you like ann coulter because she is an author of ad hom political attacks against liberals. simple as that.

edit:

4 years ago, i wonder if you would have labeled Rich as such:

The whackjob needs to pay her rent or at least buy food, so she writes BS books. There are a large number of failed academics and academic wanna-be’s that write books predicting the end of the world, culture, religion, freedom, whatever. It’s like listening to an over-educated carnival barker trying to separate you from your ticket just to get a glimpse of some over-hyped circus act.

after all, 4 years ago, RE was still booming, “carnival barkers” like rich and shiller and schiff were just crying wolf because they’re all bitter renters, right?

[drunkle]

gold’s post was nothing but ad hom. there was no substance, just character attacks. “referring to a dolt as a dolt” is just another empty ad hom.

you like ann coulter because she is an author of ad hom political attacks against liberals. simple as that.

edit:

4 years ago, i wonder if you would have labeled Rich as such:

The whackjob needs to pay her rent or at least buy food, so she writes BS books. There are a large number of failed academics and academic wanna-be’s that write books predicting the end of the world, culture, religion, freedom, whatever. It’s like listening to an over-educated carnival barker trying to separate you from your ticket just to get a glimpse of some over-hyped circus act.

after all, 4 years ago, RE was still booming, “carnival barkers” like rich and shiller and schiff were just crying wolf because they’re all bitter renters, right?

[Allan from Fallbrook]

drunkle: Since when is referring to a dolt as a dolt an ad hominem attack?

Ann Coulter is not an author, nor is she a political commentator. Rather, she is a lightning rod for the right and great entertainment value. Taking her seriously is like taking Rush Limbaugh seriously. They are both there for ratings, and to invite fire, and little else.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

drunkle: Since when is referring to a dolt as a dolt an ad hominem attack?

Ann Coulter is not an author, nor is she a political commentator. Rather, she is a lightning rod for the right and great entertainment value. Taking her seriously is like taking Rush Limbaugh seriously. They are both there for ratings, and to invite fire, and little else.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

drunkle: Since when is referring to a dolt as a dolt an ad hominem attack?

Ann Coulter is not an author, nor is she a political commentator. Rather, she is a lightning rod for the right and great entertainment value. Taking her seriously is like taking Rush Limbaugh seriously. They are both there for ratings, and to invite fire, and little else.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

drunkle: Since when is referring to a dolt as a dolt an ad hominem attack?

Ann Coulter is not an author, nor is she a political commentator. Rather, she is a lightning rod for the right and great entertainment value. Taking her seriously is like taking Rush Limbaugh seriously. They are both there for ratings, and to invite fire, and little else.

[drunkle]

humm. ad hominem is outstanding synopsis. no wonder ann coulter sells so well.

[drunkle]

humm. ad hominem is outstanding synopsis. no wonder ann coulter sells so well.

[drunkle]

humm. ad hominem is outstanding synopsis. no wonder ann coulter sells so well.

[drunkle]

humm. ad hominem is outstanding synopsis. no wonder ann coulter sells so well.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

gold_dredger_phd: Hoo-f**king-ah! Outstanding synopsis. I especially agree with the estimation of Gore Vidal. I’ve seen him on talk shows before, dripping contempt for anyone not able to understand (and, more importantly, agree with) him.

Don’t forget the king of self-aggrandizement and self-attribution: Noam Chomsky. Noted apologist for Pol Pot as well.

Naomi Wolf is an absolute dilettante when it comes to this type of writing, and she is clearly out of her depth here. This type of tired polemical writing should have gone out with the ’60s and early ’70s, especially the repeated invocations of Mussolini and Hitler. I especially enjoyed the hysterical bon mot of: “I will no longer speak out when they come seize my friends!” I don’t find it easy to equate her with Diedrich Bonhoffer, whom she was undoubtedly referring to.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

gold_dredger_phd: Hoo-f**king-ah! Outstanding synopsis. I especially agree with the estimation of Gore Vidal. I’ve seen him on talk shows before, dripping contempt for anyone not able to understand (and, more importantly, agree with) him.

Don’t forget the king of self-aggrandizement and self-attribution: Noam Chomsky. Noted apologist for Pol Pot as well.

Naomi Wolf is an absolute dilettante when it comes to this type of writing, and she is clearly out of her depth here. This type of tired polemical writing should have gone out with the ’60s and early ’70s, especially the repeated invocations of Mussolini and Hitler. I especially enjoyed the hysterical bon mot of: “I will no longer speak out when they come seize my friends!” I don’t find it easy to equate her with Diedrich Bonhoffer, whom she was undoubtedly referring to.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

gold_dredger_phd: Hoo-f**king-ah! Outstanding synopsis. I especially agree with the estimation of Gore Vidal. I’ve seen him on talk shows before, dripping contempt for anyone not able to understand (and, more importantly, agree with) him.

Don’t forget the king of self-aggrandizement and self-attribution: Noam Chomsky. Noted apologist for Pol Pot as well.

Naomi Wolf is an absolute dilettante when it comes to this type of writing, and she is clearly out of her depth here. This type of tired polemical writing should have gone out with the ’60s and early ’70s, especially the repeated invocations of Mussolini and Hitler. I especially enjoyed the hysterical bon mot of: “I will no longer speak out when they come seize my friends!” I don’t find it easy to equate her with Diedrich Bonhoffer, whom she was undoubtedly referring to.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

gold_dredger_phd: Hoo-f**king-ah! Outstanding synopsis. I especially agree with the estimation of Gore Vidal. I’ve seen him on talk shows before, dripping contempt for anyone not able to understand (and, more importantly, agree with) him.

Don’t forget the king of self-aggrandizement and self-attribution: Noam Chomsky. Noted apologist for Pol Pot as well.

Naomi Wolf is an absolute dilettante when it comes to this type of writing, and she is clearly out of her depth here. This type of tired polemical writing should have gone out with the ’60s and early ’70s, especially the repeated invocations of Mussolini and Hitler. I especially enjoyed the hysterical bon mot of: “I will no longer speak out when they come seize my friends!” I don’t find it easy to equate her with Diedrich Bonhoffer, whom she was undoubtedly referring to.

[gold_dredger_phd]

The whackjob needs to pay her rent or at least buy food, so she writes BS books. There are a large number of failed academics and academic wanna-be’s that write books predicting the end of the world, culture, religion, freedom, whatever. It’s like listening to an over-educated carnival barker trying to separate you from your ticket just to get a glimpse of some over-hyped circus act.

This woman is a circus act and that’s how she makes her money. She was far too emotional or she was of dubious academic acheivement even though she had the correct politics and sex for getting tenure.

Other nuts who are in this category are: James Howard Kunstler, Jeremy Rifkin and Gore Vidal. There are others, but I don’t make it a habit of reading the works of my ideological enemies. Most of these people are cultural vandals.

[gold_dredger_phd]

The whackjob needs to pay her rent or at least buy food, so she writes BS books. There are a large number of failed academics and academic wanna-be’s that write books predicting the end of the world, culture, religion, freedom, whatever. It’s like listening to an over-educated carnival barker trying to separate you from your ticket just to get a glimpse of some over-hyped circus act.

This woman is a circus act and that’s how she makes her money. She was far too emotional or she was of dubious academic acheivement even though she had the correct politics and sex for getting tenure.

Other nuts who are in this category are: James Howard Kunstler, Jeremy Rifkin and Gore Vidal. There are others, but I don’t make it a habit of reading the works of my ideological enemies. Most of these people are cultural vandals.

[gold_dredger_phd]

The whackjob needs to pay her rent or at least buy food, so she writes BS books. There are a large number of failed academics and academic wanna-be’s that write books predicting the end of the world, culture, religion, freedom, whatever. It’s like listening to an over-educated carnival barker trying to separate you from your ticket just to get a glimpse of some over-hyped circus act.

This woman is a circus act and that’s how she makes her money. She was far too emotional or she was of dubious academic acheivement even though she had the correct politics and sex for getting tenure.

Other nuts who are in this category are: James Howard Kunstler, Jeremy Rifkin and Gore Vidal. There are others, but I don’t make it a habit of reading the works of my ideological enemies. Most of these people are cultural vandals.

[gold_dredger_phd]

The whackjob needs to pay her rent or at least buy food, so she writes BS books. There are a large number of failed academics and academic wanna-be’s that write books predicting the end of the world, culture, religion, freedom, whatever. It’s like listening to an over-educated carnival barker trying to separate you from your ticket just to get a glimpse of some over-hyped circus act.

This woman is a circus act and that’s how she makes her money. She was far too emotional or she was of dubious academic acheivement even though she had the correct politics and sex for getting tenure.

Other nuts who are in this category are: James Howard Kunstler, Jeremy Rifkin and Gore Vidal. There are others, but I don’t make it a habit of reading the works of my ideological enemies. Most of these people are cultural vandals.

[Author]

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