Murrieta/Temecula to get High Speed Rail Station

[ocrenter]

they spent $1.3 billion just on the I-15 carpool/express lanes, and the usage is minimal at best. as much as I am a rail fan, I just don’t see high speed rail as a good use of resources here.

think about the population density in Asia and Europe and how they have “real cities” there, that’s why high speed rail makes sense there.

[UCGal]

[quote=briansd1]The problem with rail in America is riders. We need to change urban planning first before rail is viable. In Europe, after WWII, people already lived in dense urban centers so when they built the rail networks, the customers were already eagerly awaiting.
[/quote]

I disagree with this. In Atlanta, when they put in MARTA – development clustered around the ends. Gwinett county refused to have a MARTA line – preferring freeways. My coworkers were really annoyed by that. It made it much less convenient to get to the airport. When I was looking for rentals I specifically looked for proximity to a MARTA rail line.

I lived outside of Philly in Glenside, PA – town centers formed around train stops of SEPTA. These were very small towns, that changed and grew when the train went in. I had many neighbors that commuted daily to center city – family’s with ONE car, which stayed garaged. On a personal note – I enjoyed that I could roll a suitcase 2 blocks to the station – and take the train to the airport… VERY convenient.

People thought that the trolley would just be used for tourism. I’m old – I remember the debates and scoffing prior to it’s start in 1981… and I remember the SHOCK by the people who skoffed (and the planners) when it was used by commuters from day one – people from the southbay using it to get to downton jobs. No one expected full trains from the first day.

The coaster has decent ridership by commuters.

If the infrastructure is there – People use it.

[UCGal]

[quote=briansd1]The problem with rail in America is riders. We need to change urban planning first before rail is viable. In Europe, after WWII, people already lived in dense urban centers so when they built the rail networks, the customers were already eagerly awaiting.
[/quote]

I disagree with this. In Atlanta, when they put in MARTA – development clustered around the ends. Gwinett county refused to have a MARTA line – preferring freeways. My coworkers were really annoyed by that. It made it much less convenient to get to the airport. When I was looking for rentals I specifically looked for proximity to a MARTA rail line.

I lived outside of Philly in Glenside, PA – town centers formed around train stops of SEPTA. These were very small towns, that changed and grew when the train went in. I had many neighbors that commuted daily to center city – family’s with ONE car, which stayed garaged. On a personal note – I enjoyed that I could roll a suitcase 2 blocks to the station – and take the train to the airport… VERY convenient.

People thought that the trolley would just be used for tourism. I’m old – I remember the debates and scoffing prior to it’s start in 1981… and I remember the SHOCK by the people who skoffed (and the planners) when it was used by commuters from day one – people from the southbay using it to get to downton jobs. No one expected full trains from the first day.

The coaster has decent ridership by commuters.

If the infrastructure is there – People use it.

[UCGal]

[quote=briansd1]The problem with rail in America is riders. We need to change urban planning first before rail is viable. In Europe, after WWII, people already lived in dense urban centers so when they built the rail networks, the customers were already eagerly awaiting.
[/quote]

I disagree with this. In Atlanta, when they put in MARTA – development clustered around the ends. Gwinett county refused to have a MARTA line – preferring freeways. My coworkers were really annoyed by that. It made it much less convenient to get to the airport. When I was looking for rentals I specifically looked for proximity to a MARTA rail line.

I lived outside of Philly in Glenside, PA – town centers formed around train stops of SEPTA. These were very small towns, that changed and grew when the train went in. I had many neighbors that commuted daily to center city – family’s with ONE car, which stayed garaged. On a personal note – I enjoyed that I could roll a suitcase 2 blocks to the station – and take the train to the airport… VERY convenient.

People thought that the trolley would just be used for tourism. I’m old – I remember the debates and scoffing prior to it’s start in 1981… and I remember the SHOCK by the people who skoffed (and the planners) when it was used by commuters from day one – people from the southbay using it to get to downton jobs. No one expected full trains from the first day.

The coaster has decent ridership by commuters.

If the infrastructure is there – People use it.

[UCGal]

[quote=briansd1]The problem with rail in America is riders. We need to change urban planning first before rail is viable. In Europe, after WWII, people already lived in dense urban centers so when they built the rail networks, the customers were already eagerly awaiting.
[/quote]

I disagree with this. In Atlanta, when they put in MARTA – development clustered around the ends. Gwinett county refused to have a MARTA line – preferring freeways. My coworkers were really annoyed by that. It made it much less convenient to get to the airport. When I was looking for rentals I specifically looked for proximity to a MARTA rail line.

I lived outside of Philly in Glenside, PA – town centers formed around train stops of SEPTA. These were very small towns, that changed and grew when the train went in. I had many neighbors that commuted daily to center city – family’s with ONE car, which stayed garaged. On a personal note – I enjoyed that I could roll a suitcase 2 blocks to the station – and take the train to the airport… VERY convenient.

People thought that the trolley would just be used for tourism. I’m old – I remember the debates and scoffing prior to it’s start in 1981… and I remember the SHOCK by the people who skoffed (and the planners) when it was used by commuters from day one – people from the southbay using it to get to downton jobs. No one expected full trains from the first day.

The coaster has decent ridership by commuters.

If the infrastructure is there – People use it.

[UCGal]

[quote=briansd1]The problem with rail in America is riders. We need to change urban planning first before rail is viable. In Europe, after WWII, people already lived in dense urban centers so when they built the rail networks, the customers were already eagerly awaiting.
[/quote]

I disagree with this. In Atlanta, when they put in MARTA – development clustered around the ends. Gwinett county refused to have a MARTA line – preferring freeways. My coworkers were really annoyed by that. It made it much less convenient to get to the airport. When I was looking for rentals I specifically looked for proximity to a MARTA rail line.

I lived outside of Philly in Glenside, PA – town centers formed around train stops of SEPTA. These were very small towns, that changed and grew when the train went in. I had many neighbors that commuted daily to center city – family’s with ONE car, which stayed garaged. On a personal note – I enjoyed that I could roll a suitcase 2 blocks to the station – and take the train to the airport… VERY convenient.

People thought that the trolley would just be used for tourism. I’m old – I remember the debates and scoffing prior to it’s start in 1981… and I remember the SHOCK by the people who skoffed (and the planners) when it was used by commuters from day one – people from the southbay using it to get to downton jobs. No one expected full trains from the first day.

The coaster has decent ridership by commuters.

If the infrastructure is there – People use it.

[briansd1]

To be honest, I haven’t kept up with local public transport issues.

Are the public transport agencies self-sustaining? Or do they require subsidies? If so, I wonder what cuts in funding will do to the schedules.

Obviously, I don’t use public transport, other than the Amtrak to OC and LA. The train is so excruciatingly slow.

I would ride the trolley if it went inside the airport. It’s also so slow.

I love BART at SFO. But it seems empty to me. I don’t think the fares cover maintenance, salaries, pensions, etc…

I agree that the Northeast to DC region is great for public transport. They have cities centers that people travel to. I love Philly. Nice walkable city with nice parks. Rittenhouse Square and Society Hill are cool neighborhoods.

[briansd1]

To be honest, I haven’t kept up with local public transport issues.

Are the public transport agencies self-sustaining? Or do they require subsidies? If so, I wonder what cuts in funding will do to the schedules.

Obviously, I don’t use public transport, other than the Amtrak to OC and LA. The train is so excruciatingly slow.

I would ride the trolley if it went inside the airport. It’s also so slow.

I love BART at SFO. But it seems empty to me. I don’t think the fares cover maintenance, salaries, pensions, etc…

I agree that the Northeast to DC region is great for public transport. They have cities centers that people travel to. I love Philly. Nice walkable city with nice parks. Rittenhouse Square and Society Hill are cool neighborhoods.

[briansd1]

To be honest, I haven’t kept up with local public transport issues.

Are the public transport agencies self-sustaining? Or do they require subsidies? If so, I wonder what cuts in funding will do to the schedules.

Obviously, I don’t use public transport, other than the Amtrak to OC and LA. The train is so excruciatingly slow.

I would ride the trolley if it went inside the airport. It’s also so slow.

I love BART at SFO. But it seems empty to me. I don’t think the fares cover maintenance, salaries, pensions, etc…

I agree that the Northeast to DC region is great for public transport. They have cities centers that people travel to. I love Philly. Nice walkable city with nice parks. Rittenhouse Square and Society Hill are cool neighborhoods.

[briansd1]

To be honest, I haven’t kept up with local public transport issues.

Are the public transport agencies self-sustaining? Or do they require subsidies? If so, I wonder what cuts in funding will do to the schedules.

Obviously, I don’t use public transport, other than the Amtrak to OC and LA. The train is so excruciatingly slow.

I would ride the trolley if it went inside the airport. It’s also so slow.

I love BART at SFO. But it seems empty to me. I don’t think the fares cover maintenance, salaries, pensions, etc…

I agree that the Northeast to DC region is great for public transport. They have cities centers that people travel to. I love Philly. Nice walkable city with nice parks. Rittenhouse Square and Society Hill are cool neighborhoods.

[briansd1]

To be honest, I haven’t kept up with local public transport issues.

Are the public transport agencies self-sustaining? Or do they require subsidies? If so, I wonder what cuts in funding will do to the schedules.

Obviously, I don’t use public transport, other than the Amtrak to OC and LA. The train is so excruciatingly slow.

I would ride the trolley if it went inside the airport. It’s also so slow.

I love BART at SFO. But it seems empty to me. I don’t think the fares cover maintenance, salaries, pensions, etc…

I agree that the Northeast to DC region is great for public transport. They have cities centers that people travel to. I love Philly. Nice walkable city with nice parks. Rittenhouse Square and Society Hill are cool neighborhoods.

[LAAFTERHOURS]

[quote=ocrenter]they spent $1.3 billion just on the I-15 carpool/express lanes, and the usage is minimal at best. as much as I am a rail fan, I just don’t see high speed rail as a good use of resources here.

[/quote]

You sure about that? The 15 on sigalert used to be red every morning and evening. Now it seems its not. The 5 is in much worse shape and I wish that the 5 had the dedicated central expressway like the 15 (the new section north of the 56 with multiple inlets and outlets). Allowing single drivers to pay a premium via ezpass is an excellent idea that the 5 needs. It is steep (i saw 4.60 cents on the 15 last week from escondido to the 163) but I would pay that if I were a single and the highways were gridlocked.

To the people that suggest rails above a freeway or freeway above a freeway, what happens during a massive earthquake? Another northridge highway collapse?

[LAAFTERHOURS]

[quote=ocrenter]they spent $1.3 billion just on the I-15 carpool/express lanes, and the usage is minimal at best. as much as I am a rail fan, I just don’t see high speed rail as a good use of resources here.

[/quote]

You sure about that? The 15 on sigalert used to be red every morning and evening. Now it seems its not. The 5 is in much worse shape and I wish that the 5 had the dedicated central expressway like the 15 (the new section north of the 56 with multiple inlets and outlets). Allowing single drivers to pay a premium via ezpass is an excellent idea that the 5 needs. It is steep (i saw 4.60 cents on the 15 last week from escondido to the 163) but I would pay that if I were a single and the highways were gridlocked.

To the people that suggest rails above a freeway or freeway above a freeway, what happens during a massive earthquake? Another northridge highway collapse?

[LAAFTERHOURS]

[quote=ocrenter]they spent $1.3 billion just on the I-15 carpool/express lanes, and the usage is minimal at best. as much as I am a rail fan, I just don’t see high speed rail as a good use of resources here.

[/quote]

You sure about that? The 15 on sigalert used to be red every morning and evening. Now it seems its not. The 5 is in much worse shape and I wish that the 5 had the dedicated central expressway like the 15 (the new section north of the 56 with multiple inlets and outlets). Allowing single drivers to pay a premium via ezpass is an excellent idea that the 5 needs. It is steep (i saw 4.60 cents on the 15 last week from escondido to the 163) but I would pay that if I were a single and the highways were gridlocked.

To the people that suggest rails above a freeway or freeway above a freeway, what happens during a massive earthquake? Another northridge highway collapse?

[LAAFTERHOURS]

[quote=ocrenter]they spent $1.3 billion just on the I-15 carpool/express lanes, and the usage is minimal at best. as much as I am a rail fan, I just don’t see high speed rail as a good use of resources here.

[/quote]

You sure about that? The 15 on sigalert used to be red every morning and evening. Now it seems its not. The 5 is in much worse shape and I wish that the 5 had the dedicated central expressway like the 15 (the new section north of the 56 with multiple inlets and outlets). Allowing single drivers to pay a premium via ezpass is an excellent idea that the 5 needs. It is steep (i saw 4.60 cents on the 15 last week from escondido to the 163) but I would pay that if I were a single and the highways were gridlocked.

To the people that suggest rails above a freeway or freeway above a freeway, what happens during a massive earthquake? Another northridge highway collapse?

[Author]

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