Missing airliner

[moneymaker]

OT:Before this whole thing happened I would have thought it extremely unlikely that an airliner like a 777 could disappear without a trace. Funny I was thinking about a month before this happened that it would be a good idea to have tethered balloons 60-100 miles apart at low altitude all over the ocean to act as observatories/relay stations, that way disabled boats/ships could be located quickly.

[NotCranky]

How about make the black box triple redundant? Make one that senses a crash and ejects and floats, or is placed in a part of the plane that will break off and float on any impact.

[svelte]

How about tracking commercial airliners at 1 minute intervals?

Until this happened, I had no idea there wasn’t frequent automatic contact between commercial planes and external entities.

Technology is way past the point where this is practical. It’s an embarrassment to society it hasn’t been done yet.

[flyer]

Having piloted the 777, IMO, it’s a great aircraft.

As far as tracking. It is my understanding that most new aircraft (commercial and private) will have ADS-B Out — the Automatic Dependent Surveillance Broadcast Out system installed, and that older aircraft can and will be retrofitted.

Each aircraft will transmit it’s position automatically without the use of radar. This will enable more efficient tracking up to the point of the last known location.

[spdrun]

The problem is that it looks like the pilot deliberately deactivated any systems that broadcast the jet’s position. Short of an independent (solar/battery or ram air turbine powered) system which is totally independent of the plane’s electrical system, all systems on an aircraft need to be on a fuse or breaker for safety reasons.

Things need to be turned off if they cause wiring to overheat or interfere with the function of other electrical systems. ADS-B is just a transponder that sends out GPS data. It will also be on a fuse or breaker, and thus subject to malicious deactivation.

In short, if someone determined to cause harm gets control of an aircraft, there’s damn little anyone can do. Even if the plane did broadcast its location, it wouldn’t have helped anyone aboard if at least one of the pilots was bent on murder and suicide.

[flyer]

As an airline pilot, I’m extremely familiar with everything you’ve mentioned, but I’d still like to see a tracking system that could not be deactivated in flight, so, regardless of the scenario, we could get the last known position of the aircraft.

[Doofrat]

Hi Flyer,

When you’re flying a large aircraft, does it feel like you’re sitting in the nose of a gigantic aircraft, strapped into a smaller plane, or driving a bus?
Always wondered this…

[spdrun]

[quote=flyer]As an airline pilot, I’m extremely familiar with everything you’ve mentioned, but I’d still like to see a tracking system that could not be deactivated in flight, so, regardless of the scenario, we could get the last known position of the aircraft.[/quote]

It would have to not use GPS since GPS reception is easy to jam with jammers being easily available. Perhaps a combination of GPS data being sent to a satellite uplink (using a transponder with internal batteries charged independently of the aircraft electrics) and a simple radio signal that can be triangulated if GPS is jammed would work.

[ucodegen]

[quote=spdrun][quote=flyer]As an airline pilot, I’m extremely familiar with everything you’ve mentioned, but I’d still like to see a tracking system that could not be deactivated in flight, so, regardless of the scenario, we could get the last known position of the aircraft.[/quote]

It would have to not use GPS since GPS reception is easy to jam with jammers being easily available. Perhaps a combination of GPS data being sent to a satellite uplink (using a transponder with internal batteries charged independently of the aircraft electrics) and a simple radio signal that can be triangulated if GPS is jammed would work.[/quote]Actually, it is best to use GPS augmented by inertial. GPS has a ‘fast drift’ that is centered about the path, inertial has a ‘slow drift’ about the path. Jamming can be fixed by noticing lack of GPS reception and failing over to pure inertial until GPS returns (Over 100 miles, inertial and GPS tend to be close enough to not really matter – and you will get out of range of the jammer). GPS fudging or faking GPS position (as opposed to jamming) can be seen as a rapid divergence between GPS path and inertial path.

Note: If you are planning to jam GPS, might as well jam the uplink too.

— just my 2 cents, can’t say more ;-P

[flyer]

[quote=doofrat]Hi Flyer,

When you’re flying a large aircraft, does it feel like you’re sitting in the nose of a gigantic aircraft, strapped into a smaller plane, or driving a bus?
Always wondered this…[/quote]

doofrat, I’ve heard lots of different perspectives of this from other pilots, but, for me, I feel like I’m sitting at the end of a long tube–viewing the world below–with complete control in three dimensions. It’s an awesome experience from the front row seats.

[CA renter]

[quote=flyer][quote=doofrat]Hi Flyer,

When you’re flying a large aircraft, does it feel like you’re sitting in the nose of a gigantic aircraft, strapped into a smaller plane, or driving a bus?
Always wondered this…[/quote]

doofrat, I’ve heard lots of different perspectives of this from other pilots, but, for me, I feel like I’m sitting at the end of a long tube–viewing the world below–with complete control in three dimensions. It’s an awesome experience from the front row seats.[/quote]

That is incredibly cool. 🙂

[Doofrat]

Thank You Flyer!

[CDMA ENG]

[quote=flyer][quote=doofrat]Hi Flyer,

When you’re flying a large aircraft, does it feel like you’re sitting in the nose of a gigantic aircraft, strapped into a smaller plane, or driving a bus?
Always wondered this…[/quote]

doofrat, I’ve heard lots of different perspectives of this from other pilots, but, for me, I feel like I’m sitting at the end of a long tube–viewing the world below–with complete control in three dimensions. It’s an awesome experience from the front row seats.[/quote]

Admit it… Just once before you retire though… You would like to pull a “Tex Johnson”!

hehe…

CE

[flyer]

Crazy as that seemed, it did help sell more airplanes, CE. Today, you could wave goodbye to your license, your job, and probably your retirement package if you pulled a stunt like that.

[CDMA ENG]

[quote=flyer]Crazy as that seemed, it did help sell more airplanes, CE. Today, you could wave goodbye to your license, your job, and probably your retirement package if you pulled a stunt like that.[/quote]

That’s not a denial I’m hearing! 😛

CE

[Author]

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