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November 12, 2015 at 10:14 AM #791235November 12, 2015 at 10:36 AM #791236
CA renter
ParticipantZK, the ONLY “point” you’ve made are that I am imagining things. Every single one of your posts regurgitates this theory of yours (and you attempt to state it as fact). Your “point” is that I have made everything up, and I’m imagining things. Apparently, you think you know more about the people I’ve known, and the incidents I’ve experienced, than I do. Were you there? Did you talk to these people about these particular issues? No, you weren’t; and no, you didn’t…but I was there, and I did talk with them about these issues.
You have absolutely no idea about the things I’ve seen and experienced. How in the world can you claim to know more about my life than I, or any other person, would?
Trust me, I am not afraid to express an opinion or ask someone about their reason for doing things. If I perceive something that might be sexist or misogynistic, I will ask people explain what they are doing and why.
Everything I’ve said is true. Nothing has been made up or imagined. It is true that I see sexism and misogyny where you don’t because you are not aware and alert to it in the same way that someone who has experienced it personally would be. Just because you haven’t seen or experienced something, that doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist.
As to why you supposedly haven’t seen or heard anything like this, it’s entirely possible that you aren’t very sociable, or that you don’t get into deep conversations with others about these things. Perhaps you’re afraid to challenge people when you perceive that something is off. Perhaps you just think it’s “normal” or “acceptable” behavior, and blow it off (this is my guess, based on your posts). The fact that you think something should be acceptable to another person or group of people has absolutely no standing in the real world. Your opinion of how someone should perceive a certain behavior doesn’t matter, and this is especially true if you’ve never been on the receiving end of a particular action or behavior..
Yes, “rip,” the paper was literally ripped out of the boy’s hands. Yes, I’ve seen it in many other situations as well… a doll or Barbie being ripped (yes, ripped) out of the hands of a boy as he was told to go play with games that were made for boys. I’ve seen boys who wanted to take dance classes or acting class being told that they couldn’t do that because those things were for girls, but they could take soccer, or football, or baseball, instead.
No, ZK, you are not an expert on sexism and misogyny, but it would do you a world of good to read about it. It’s very clear from your posts that you still don’t understand what it is, or how to identify it, or why it should matter.
November 12, 2015 at 10:39 AM #791237ParticipantAnd who said this (bold is mine)?
[quote=zk][quote=scaredyclassic]Is this intrinsic to men or is the above description the result of the last generation of mothers screwing with their sons heads.
I say the latter.
History is replete with great friendships of men. The above post sounds like men can’t be friends because they aren’t “nice”.[/quote]
Having the same confidence-with-guy-friends issue as scaredy and having had a mother who looked down upon any kind of manliness, I’m going to agree with scaredy here.
“Nice” (I use the word “nice” but what I really mean is closer to “good friend”) among men might look different from “nice” among women. What might look to a woman like a man being nice to another man might look to the recipient man not like nice at all. And what might look to a woman like a man being “not nice” to another man might feel like gold to that other man. A woman is not in a position to judge that. She never has been and never will be.[/quote]
Hypocrite much?
November 12, 2015 at 12:13 PM #791238zk
Participant[quote=CA renter]ZK, the ONLY “point” you’ve made are that I am imagining things. Every single one of your posts regurgitates this theory of yours (and you attempt to state it as fact). Your “point” is that I have made everything up, and I’m imagining things.
[/quote]
Actually, I’ve made dozens of points, most of them related to the weakness of your arguments. I really don’t have to list them, because anybody reading this can start on page 4 of this thread and see point after point after point in each of my posts. It’s apparently easy for you to just ignore my points. If you had some sort of arguments against my points, that would carry more weight than just saying I don’t have any.[quote=CA renter]
Apparently, you think you know more about the people I’ve known, and the incidents I’ve experienced, than I do. Were you there? Did you talk to these people about these particular issues? No, you weren’t; and no, you didn’t…but I was there, and I did talk with them about these issues.
[/quote]I wasn’t there. That’s why I asked you questions. Questions you ignored. You said that, in every single instance, girls were the ones being excluded, and that in every single instance the reason was that parents were afraid that boys would be feminized by exposure to girls. When I asked you if you asked every single parent about this, or how you knew this, you ignored the question. When I asked you to ask one of those parents why they thought exposing boys to girls would feminize girls, you ignored that.
[quote=CA renter]
You have absolutely no idea about the things I’ve seen and experienced. How in the world can you claim to know more about my life than I, or any other person, would?
[/quote]
I do have some idea, because you’ve told me about them. I never claimed to know more about your life than you. You ask that question as though I’ve claimed that. You do that consistently. Another sign of the weakness of your arguments.[quote=CA renter]
Trust me, I am not afraid to express an opinion or ask someone about their reason for doing things. If I perceive something that might be sexist or misogynistic, I will ask people explain what they are doing and why.
[/quote]
Ok. So what do they say when you ask them why exposing boys to girls will feminize them?[quote=CA renter]
Everything I’ve said is true. Nothing has been made up or imagined. It is true that I see sexism and misogyny where you don’t because you are not aware and alert to it in the same way that someone who has experienced it personally would be. Just because you haven’t seen or experienced something, that doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist.
[/quote]
For you to claim that segregating boys and girls for fear of feminizing boys is prevalent, overt, and explicit, and then claim that I wouldn’t notice it even if somebody actually told me they were doing it (and that I wouldn’t notice a single instance of it despite 15 years of hanging around parents) is ridiculous. When I asked if anybody else on this forum had ever seen such a thing, there were no responses. If you’re the only one who’s seeing something, perhaps it’s time to reevaluate your perspective.
[quote=CA renter]
As to why you supposedly haven’t seen or heard anything like this, it’s entirely possible that you aren’t very sociable, or that you don’t get into deep conversations with others about these things. Perhaps you’re afraid to challenge people when you perceive that something is off. Perhaps you just think it’s “normal” or “acceptable” behavior, and blow it off (this is my guess, based on your posts).
[/quote]4 guesses, all of them way off base. Again, I’m not the only one not seeing it. In fact, it appears you’re the only one seeing it.
Not that I need this to make my point, but if this is as prevalent a social phenomenon as you think it is, somebody somewhere is going to write something somewhere about it on the internet. Besides you. Can you find anything anywhere that talks about parents being afraid of boys’ exposure to girls feminizing them?[quote=CA renter]
The fact that you think something should be acceptable to another person or group of people has absolutely no standing in the real world. Your opinion of how someone should perceive a certain behavior doesn’t matter, and this is especially true if you’ve never been on the receiving end of a particular action or behavior..
[/quote]
What did I say that you’re referring to, here? Or did you make up a position for me again?
[quote=CA renter]
Yes, “rip,” the paper was literally ripped out of the boy’s hands. Yes, I’ve seen it in many other situations as well… a doll or Barbie being ripped (yes, ripped) out of the hands of a boy as he was told to go play with games that were made for boys. I’ve seen boys who wanted to take dance classes or acting class being told that they couldn’t do that because those things were for girls, but they could take soccer, or football, or baseball, instead.
[/quote]
Did your mother literally shove you out of the way to get to your husband?
Is your consistent inability to clearly read what I’m saying (or your consistent and purposeful misrepresentation of my positions) based on your emotion, or is it something else?
[quote=CA renter]No, ZK, you are not an expert on sexism and misogyny, but it would do you a world of good to read about it.
[/quote]
For the I-don’t-know-how-many’th-time, I never said I was an expert on misogyny. And I never even brought up sexism.[quote=CA renter]
It’s very clear from your posts that you still don’t understand what it is, or how to identify it, or why it should matter.
[/quote]
You keep saying that, and you keep having no evidence for it.November 12, 2015 at 12:14 PM #791239Participant[quote=CA renter]
Hypocrite much?[/quote]
That would only fly if I’d said I understood what it felt like to be a victim of misogyny. Which I never said.
November 12, 2015 at 12:27 PM #791240FlyerInHi
GuestThere’s a lot of delusions out there.
Some blacks could see instances of racism when there is none. That doesn’t mean there is no history or legacy of racism. But sometimes when you expect to see something, you create ah ha moments to prove your points.Women do that…. “Ah ha, you’re disrespecting me, blah, blah….” In reality, there’s no disrespect because they don’t even figure in your thought.
(I suppose it’s sexist to say so).True story here… One of my friend was like Steve Jobs who hack into phone systems as a teen. The FBI raided his house and confiscated his computer. Ever since he sees a vast surveillance conspiracy. It’s paranoid. Sure there is vast data sweeps. But there aren’t enough surveillance agents to read your facebook posts and read your mails, and to monitor your boring life.
November 12, 2015 at 6:10 PM #791251Participant[quote=FlyerInHi]
True story here… One of my friend was like Steve Jobs who hack into phone systems as a teen. The FBI raided his house and confiscated his computer. Ever since he sees a vast surveillance conspiracy. It’s paranoid. Sure there is vast data sweeps. But there aren’t enough surveillance agents to read your facebook posts and read your mails, and to monitor your boring life.[/quote]
They have computers for that. Yes, your emails, posts, phone calls, etc. are being screened…by computers. Anything that is flagged is then reviewed by humans. If they notice a trend of suspicious communications, then you might end up on their radar, and your communications will be monitored by humans. He’s a conspiracy theorist, and he’s right. Just because you’re less informed about it, that doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist.
Along those same lines, just because you don’t see something as racist, sexist, or homophobic, etc., that doesn’t mean that it’s not.
This is just one data center/program (their largest, I believe). There are others.
November 12, 2015 at 6:28 PM #791252Anonymous
Guest[quote=CA renter]Do the historians really know more, or do they just think that they know more?
I’ve studied certain subjects, and have a particular perspective based on that research, but when I talk to people who have direct experience with the subject, I always learn more from them…far more, and my perspective is almost always changed. I would *never in a million years* tell a Jew who lived through WWII in Europe, that I knew more than they did about the Holocaust. It doesn’t matter how many books I read, there is NO WAY that I would know more about it than they did.
[…][/quote]
The irony in that first sentence…
This reminds me of the time that you were explaining how you knew more about high-frequency trading than I did because it was only my profession for many years, but you were able to cite an article from Rolling Stone.
You’ll never comprehend this, by definition, but I’ll say it again anyway:
Your posts here are a perfect case study of Dunning–Kruger.
November 12, 2015 at 6:34 PM #791253Participant[quote=zk]
Put down your misogyny-tinted glasses and then read scaredy’s posts again. What scaredy said was that he was neurotic, and that he didn’t want to create another generation of neurotic men. What he said in reference to females was:“Is this intrinsic to men or is the above description the result of the last generation of mothers screwing with their sons heads. “
And when he said “this,” he was referring to your description of what made a man a good friend to other men. And part of his point was that women can’t understand what makes a man a good friend to another man, and that they should stay out of the discussion. And that those moms (and maybe our culture) shouldn’t be trying to feminize men. Not because there’s anything wrong with women. But because there’s nothing wrong with men being men.[/quote]
Right here, you’re repeating the statement (via your explanation of scaredy’s post) that “women can’t understand what makes a man a good friend tto another man, and that they should stay out of the discussion.”
Based on this post, and the other one I just quoted above, it seems as though you are agreeing with this sentiment.
If you follow your logic, then men can’t understand what women think or feel (about feminism or misogyny), either; therefore, they should stay out of the discussion.
Would you agree with that? Or do you believe that men have the ability to understand everything, whereas women only understand “girl things” and should refrain from any discussions about men and their feelings or perceptions of things?
And I would argue that some men do indeed understand sexism and misogyny, but there is a range of understanding, among both men and women, regarding these ideas. See, the world is not black and white, no matter how desperately you try to frame things that way.
BTW, the terms “sexism” and “misogyny” are often used interchangeably these days because the definition of the term “hate” has been broadened to include exaggerating differences between two groups or attempts to segregate people based on these differences (i.e.: speaking out against illegal immigration, even if for economic reasons, is called “hate speech,” speaking about the differences between black people and white people is also considered “hate speech,” etc.)
But I do dislike they way that these stronger terms have been broadened, so I acquiesced to your suggestion that some of these examples that I cited might not be misogynistic, but sexist instead. That’s why I started to include both terms. Both sexism and misogyny are unacceptable to me.
November 12, 2015 at 6:39 PM #791254Participant[quote=harvey][quote=CA renter]Do the historians really know more, or do they just think that they know more?
I’ve studied certain subjects, and have a particular perspective based on that research, but when I talk to people who have direct experience with the subject, I always learn more from them…far more, and my perspective is almost always changed. I would *never in a million years* tell a Jew who lived through WWII in Europe, that I knew more than they did about the Holocaust. It doesn’t matter how many books I read, there is NO WAY that I would know more about it than they did.
[…][/quote]
The irony in that first sentence…
This reminds me of the time that you were explaining how you knew more about high-frequency trading than I did because it was only my profession for many years, but you were able to cite an article from Rolling Stone.[/quote]
As I’ve stated before, you have to quote my entire post, or don’t quote me at all. You have a history of trying to misstate and twist what others are saying.
And my knowledge wasn’t based on a Rolling Stone article. I was using that as a quick and easy reference to what’s been going on with HFT because you displayed no knowledge, just more of your ad hominem attacks. I’ve been studying economics, finance, and social studies for decades.
[quote=harvey]
You’ll never comprehend this, by definition, but I’ll say it again anyway:Your posts here are a perfect case study of Dunning–Kruger.[/quote]
Look in the mirror.
November 12, 2015 at 7:29 PM #791257Participant[quote=zk][quote=CA renter]ZK, the ONLY “point” you’ve made are that I am imagining things. Every single one of your posts regurgitates this theory of yours (and you attempt to state it as fact). Your “point” is that I have made everything up, and I’m imagining things.
[/quote]
Actually, I’ve made dozens of points, most of them related to the weakness of your arguments. I really don’t have to list them, because anybody reading this can start on page 4 of this thread and see point after point after point in each of my posts. It’s apparently easy for you to just ignore my points. If you had some sort of arguments against my points, that would carry more weight than just saying I don’t have any.[quote=CA renter]
Apparently, you think you know more about the people I’ve known, and the incidents I’ve experienced, than I do. Were you there? Did you talk to these people about these particular issues? No, you weren’t; and no, you didn’t…but I was there, and I did talk with them about these issues.
[/quote]I wasn’t there. That’s why I asked you questions. Questions you ignored. You said that, in every single instance, girls were the ones being excluded, and that in every single instance the reason was that parents were afraid that boys would be feminized by exposure to girls. When I asked you if you asked every single parent about this, or how you knew this, you ignored the question. When I asked you to ask one of those parents why they thought exposing boys to girls would feminize girls, you ignored that.
[quote=CA renter]
You have absolutely no idea about the things I’ve seen and experienced. How in the world can you claim to know more about my life than I, or any other person, would?
[/quote]
I do have some idea, because you’ve told me about them. I never claimed to know more about your life than you. You ask that question as though I’ve claimed that. You do that consistently. Another sign of the weakness of your arguments.[quote=CA renter]
Trust me, I am not afraid to express an opinion or ask someone about their reason for doing things. If I perceive something that might be sexist or misogynistic, I will ask people explain what they are doing and why.
[/quote]
Ok. So what do they say when you ask them why exposing boys to girls will feminize them?[quote=CA renter]
Everything I’ve said is true. Nothing has been made up or imagined. It is true that I see sexism and misogyny where you don’t because you are not aware and alert to it in the same way that someone who has experienced it personally would be. Just because you haven’t seen or experienced something, that doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist.
[/quote]
For you to claim that segregating boys and girls for fear of feminizing boys is prevalent, overt, and explicit, and then claim that I wouldn’t notice it even if somebody actually told me they were doing it (and that I wouldn’t notice a single instance of it despite 15 years of hanging around parents) is ridiculous. When I asked if anybody else on this forum had ever seen such a thing, there were no responses. If you’re the only one who’s seeing something, perhaps it’s time to reevaluate your perspective.
[quote=CA renter]
As to why you supposedly haven’t seen or heard anything like this, it’s entirely possible that you aren’t very sociable, or that you don’t get into deep conversations with others about these things. Perhaps you’re afraid to challenge people when you perceive that something is off. Perhaps you just think it’s “normal” or “acceptable” behavior, and blow it off (this is my guess, based on your posts).
[/quote]4 guesses, all of them way off base. Again, I’m not the only one not seeing it. In fact, it appears you’re the only one seeing it.
Not that I need this to make my point, but if this is as prevalent a social phenomenon as you think it is, somebody somewhere is going to write something somewhere about it on the internet. Besides you. Can you find anything anywhere that talks about parents being afraid of boys’ exposure to girls feminizing them?[quote=CA renter]
The fact that you think something should be acceptable to another person or group of people has absolutely no standing in the real world. Your opinion of how someone should perceive a certain behavior doesn’t matter, and this is especially true if you’ve never been on the receiving end of a particular action or behavior..
[/quote]
What did I say that you’re referring to, here? Or did you make up a position for me again?
[quote=CA renter]
Yes, “rip,” the paper was literally ripped out of the boy’s hands. Yes, I’ve seen it in many other situations as well… a doll or Barbie being ripped (yes, ripped) out of the hands of a boy as he was told to go play with games that were made for boys. I’ve seen boys who wanted to take dance classes or acting class being told that they couldn’t do that because those things were for girls, but they could take soccer, or football, or baseball, instead.
[/quote]
Did your mother literally shove you out of the way to get to your husband?
Is your consistent inability to clearly read what I’m saying (or your consistent and purposeful misrepresentation of my positions) based on your emotion, or is it something else?
[quote=CA renter]No, ZK, you are not an expert on sexism and misogyny, but it would do you a world of good to read about it.
[/quote]
For the I-don’t-know-how-many’th-time, I never said I was an expert on misogyny. And I never even brought up sexism.[quote=CA renter]
It’s very clear from your posts that you still don’t understand what it is, or how to identify it, or why it should matter.
[/quote]
You keep saying that, and you keep having no evidence for it.[/quote]Again, every single one of your “points” hinges on your belief that I “wear misogyny-tinted glasses.” If you can show me a point that you’ve made that addresses the issue without relying on this claim, please point it out. I can’t remember a single point that you’ve made that doesn’t rely on this underlying assumption. Your statements that I’ve “made things up,” or that I’m “imagining things” don’t count as logical arguments. To the contrary, you have not witnessed a single situation that I’ve talked about…so YOU are the one “making things up,” based on your faulty assumption that I am incapable of identifying sexism or misogyny because I experienced it at an early age — as do most people, BTW; but you wouldn’t necessarily notice it because you think it’s “normal” behavior. For your information, guiding your daughter to pink toys is sexist; dragging her to malls and nail parlors, without guiding her to “boys” events and activities, with similar frequency and enthusiasm, is sexist; suggesting to your children that there are “boys activities” and “girls activities” is sexist.
I didn’t ignore your question about the parents’ intentions. And I will go into further detail about it in a separate post, since you aren’t even aware that these situations exist.
[quote=CA renter]ZK, the examples I’ve mentioned were absolutely based on the fact that these parents didn’t want their boys to be “contaminated” by anything remotely feminine. They made it very clear why they didn’t want their sons to sit with girls or, in the case of the infant boy, to wear pastel clothing. They didn’t beat around the bush at all. I just can’t type out the conversations and social history in a post here, for brevity’s sake.
And the segregation I’m talking about happens at a very early age — infancy, in some cases. I’m not talking about teenagers who are segregated by their parents because the parents are worried about rape, etc. At that stage, the kids are already reintegrating themselves because they are going through puberty and want to have sex with one another. The problem is that this is happening after years of brainwashing and segregation that highlight and exacerbate the differences between the genders and result in people objectifying each other because they don’t know how to relate in a healthy and holistic way. Kids should never be segregated in the first place, IMO; not by gender, race, age, religion, etc., because this amplifies the worst in each group, whereas integration balances things out because people can learn from one another and relate with one another in a more natural way.
[/quote]
You might not notice the segregation if you’re guilty of segregating based on gender, yourself. If you’ve been pushing your daughter into “girls activities” and not encouraging her, with equal enthusiasm and energy, to get involved with boys (and girls!) in “boys activities,” then you are guilty of these behaviors, yourself. Just the fact that you insist that there are “girls activities” and “boys activities” is sexist in itself (read the literature, you don’t have to take my word for it). The fact that you think that the spectrum of gender-based behavior looks more like a barbell with huge curves at each end and very little mixing in the middle shows that you have sexist beliefs. So much of what you see and believe is socialized, it is not innate, as you seem to think it is.
As to your inability to see all this sexism and misogyny in your own life, if you believe that it’s “natural” for boys to do “boy things” and girls to do “girl things,” then it’s unlikely that you would question the parents about their behaviors…that’s probably why you “haven’t seen these behaviors” in 15 years of parenting. Do you frequently associate with families who have sons? Do they bring their boys along to play/hang out with your daughter, or do they drop their sons off at other “boys’ activities” or another boy’s house before they come to visit with your family (I’m not talking about the infrequent guest, I’m talking about patterns of regular, consistent behavior)? If you notice it, do you question it, or do you just chalk it up to “normal” behavior? If you don’t challenge it, you’re unlikely to hear their reasons for doing it.
Yes, my mother literally shoved me out of the way to get to my husband on multiple occasions — literally push me aside physically as she bee-lined for him with arms outstretched calling out something along the lines of, “Oh, it’s so good to see you, son.” Yes, shove. Again, I’m not making this up, and am not imagining things under any circumstances.
How do I know that you can’t identify sexism or misogyny? Because you have claimed that overtly sexist behaviors and beliefs aren’t sexist or misogynistic. The segregation of boys and girls is sexist. Exaggerating the differences between genders, and claiming that environmental influences aren’t responsible for most of what you describe, is sexist. Claiming that there are “boys activities” and “girls activities” and having a very binary view of the differences between genders is sexist. Claiming that a woman who describes sexist or misogynistic experiences is “imagining things” is sexist. Not realizing that the most popular insults that are directed against both boys and girls denigrate feminine traits or behaviors, or the female anatomy, shows an ignorance about the sexist and misogynistic beliefs that are systemic in our society.
As for the “expert” comment, when I suggested that you don’t know as much about sexism as I do because you’re not a woman, you came back with a comment about a female with an IQ of 70 not knowing as much as a male “expert” on sexism. I understand that you might not have meant that as a direct comment about the status of you and me, but it certainly comes across in a peculiar way…
Finally, I sincerely doubt that you would tell a black man that you know more about racism, or tell a gay man that you know more about homophobia. I sincerely doubt that if they had related some of their experiences with prejudice to you that you would tell them that they “have issues” or that they are “imagining things” or “making things up.” We may never know, because it’s unlikely that we’ll get to experience this in a common setting like Piggington, but I really and truly doubt that you would have talked to them in the same manner that you’ve done with me. Just something to think about…
November 12, 2015 at 7:50 PM #791261ParticipantNow for a couple more details about these parents’ behaviors…
1. The woman who didn’t want to dress her infant son in the pastel “boy” colors felt that way because she didn’t think pastel was appropriate for boys. She thought that pastels were “too girly,” even if they were blue, green, etc.
Coincidentally, this same family recently moved into a new house. The son’s room had a lavender/violent accent wall. The first thing she wanted to do when they moved in was to paint that wall because “purple is for girls.” The boy wanted the lavender and did not want to change the colors, but the mother absolutely insisted and chastised him for wanting to keep a “girly” color in his room. They are going to paint it a dark blue, maybe blue and gold for the Chargers colors. The boy had no say about it.
2. The boy whose father wanted him to sit with the adults instead of at the kids’ table wanted to sit with the other kids, but his father insisted that he come over and sit with the adults. The mother, who knows my views about these things, looked at me and immediately got my reaction, and then insisted (repeatedly) that the boy sit with the other kids. They all had a good time together, BTW.
3. In our neighborhood, there are multiple families with sons and no daughters. There are other families with sons and daughters, and there are a couple of families with only daughters. The families with both genders hang out with both of the single-gender families, but the girls-only and boys-only families tend to hang out separately. When they occasionally mix, there is an emphasis on boys hanging out with boys, and girls hanging out with girls. This is reinforced by the parents who often guide the kids to different activities or spaces in the house/yard. When asked, their reason for doing this is because “the boys want to play with the other boys.” They don’t. Many of these boys have played with the girls at different times, and they all have fun, but the parents of the boys have gotten together and scheduled their sons’ activities in such a way that they never have an opportunity to play with the girls.
An anecdote: One time, when we were leaving the house of an all-boy family, the boy from one of the mixed-gender family wanted to come with us for a sleepover at our house (including his sister). The male host of the first party said: “You don’t want to go to the girls’ house. Why don’t you stay here with the boys. You can hang out and have a sleepover with the boys, instead.” Mind you, this boy is one of our kids’ closest friends, and is closer to our kids than the other kids.
That’s just one example. Things like that happen very regularly. The girls are often excluded from the neighborhood football or baseball games, even though they play as well as the boys, if not better, in most cases. Sometimes, when they are all playing together, the boys will want to go into one of the “all-boys” houses, and they won’t allow the girls to join them. Again, this type of thing happens often to girls who want to play with boys, especially if there is a critical mass of boys who can dominate the activities.
And then, there’s the old “you can be cheerleaders, because that’s what girls do” line. Blatant and overt sexism.
For the record, the boys’ parents are often present, and they hear and see this behavior. All too often, they just ignore it, or even encourage it by reasserting the premise on which it is based (“it’s for the boys,” etc.).
Now, you might not think this is sexist because you will pass it off as “natural” or “normal,” but think for a moment if the girls were switched out with black kids, or gay kids. Would that be okay with you, too?
November 12, 2015 at 7:55 PM #791260Guest[quote=CA renter]And my knowledge wasn’t based on a Rolling Stone article. I was using that as a quick and easy reference to what’s been going on with HFT because you displayed no knowledge, just more of your ad hominem attacks. I’ve been studying economics, finance, and social studies for decades.
[/quote]Oh dear …. well, then, tomorrow I’ll have to give my old boss a call…
I’ll tell the Wharton educated former Goldman Sachs exec … the one who gave me all those bonuses (the money that let me retire in my early thirties) that I was fooling him all those years because – according to someone who’s “been studying economics, finance, and social studies for decades” – I actually have no knowledge of HFT.
(Ok…I’m only semi retired, since I’m in NYC right now doing some consulting work in the field of – you guessed it – HFT!)
[quote]Look in the mirror.[/quote]
How ’bout I look out the window?
From the corner room of the Marriott in the financial district, West St. Nice view of the Hudson to the west and the tower on the WTC also.
For reference, the building with the dome is Three Financial Center:
Time for bed … it’s getting late here and tomorrow I have to be back in the office discussing risk models and arbitrage and I guess basically winging my way through discussions on finance and economics.
Anything you’d like me to tell my colleagues? They tend to be educated, but many are young. Some haven’t even been alive for the decades that you’ve been studying social studies…
November 12, 2015 at 8:01 PM #791262Participant[quote=harvey][quote=CA renter]And my knowledge wasn’t based on a Rolling Stone article. I was using that as a quick and easy reference to what’s been going on with HFT because you displayed no knowledge, just more of your ad hominem attacks. I’ve been studying economics, finance, and social studies for decades.
[/quote]Oh dear …. well, then, tomorrow I’ll have to give my old boss a call…
I’ll tell the Wharton educated Goldman Sachs exec … the one who gave me all those bonuses (the money that let me retire in my early thirties) that I was fooling him all those years because – according to someone who’s “been studying economics, finance, and social studies for decades” – I actually have no knowledge of HFT.
(Ok…I’m only semi retired, since I’m in NYC right now doing some consulting work in the field of – you guessed it – HFT!)
[quote]Look in the mirror.[/quote]
How ’bout I look out the window?
From the corner room of the Marriott in the financial district, West St. Nice view of the Hudson to the west and the tower on the WTC also.
For reference, the building with the dome is Three Financial Center:
Nice view. I had a similar view earlier this year.
You were defending HFT, and I was explaining why it can be damaging to our economy. There are plenty of “experts” who agree with me on this, BTW, and many of them come from Ivy League schools, too.
You are biased in favor of Wall Street, which is understandable. That doesn’t mean that what you want is what’s good for our economy.
I’ve also known someone who was the director of the board of one of the major exchanges. We used to discuss finance and economics a lot. It struck me, though, that his frame of reference was extremely narrow, and that he really didn’t grasp the larger picture or understand some of the consequences of certain actions on the larger world.
Again, the “experts,” most of whom have advanced degrees from ivy-league schools, claimed that their wasn’t a stock market/internet bubble, or a housing/credit bubble. Many of them claim that the Federal Reserve’s responses to the financial crisis have been a positive thing (we have yet to see how that plays out in the long run). They were wrong, and many “amateur economists” have been right. This happens far more often than most people would like to admit, in many different fields.
November 12, 2015 at 9:04 PM #791263scaredyclassic
ParticipantBottom line: boys have cooties. Stay away.
Also…girls are gross.
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