middle school logic

[CA renter]

[quote=scaredyclassic]Microrwaves. A quick pass with a swiffer. I see minivans with families scaring McDonald’s in temecula. Day care. I’m not sure it’s worth much in general, just to the right buyer. Limited market.

Men also a net loss.[/quote]

Quality matters.

You and I have different opinions about the importance of cleanliness. 😉

Regarding day care, that’s just shifting the work from one person to another. There is still a human being doing the work. As to the value? Well, a lot of people claim that their children are the most important things in their lives, but complain if the people caring for their children make as much as their hairdressers or maids or gardeners do (and that’s just using low-paid workers as a contrast). I’ve always thought that was a bit ironic.

[CA renter]

[quote=scaredyclassic]I think most men feel that women’s constant housecleaning has very little to no value. It’s just too much. Just let it be.[/quote]

Have to disagree about that one. My DH cares quite a bit, and I know a number of other husbands who complain that their wives aren’t clean enough.

[CA renter]

[quote=scaredyclassic]Caring for old people just isn’t in our culture. Better/more efficient to let underpaid people do a half assed job.[/quote]

Caregiving isn’t just a matter of efficiency. The emotional component is every bit as important as the physical component. That will probably remain true unless we all become androids — that would solve a lot of your problems, no?

[scaredyclassic]

Mother’s are crazymaking…stop caring so much.

Here is Louise gluck on that…

Brown circle

My mother wants to know
why, if I hate
family so much,
I went ahead and
had one. I don’t
answer my mother.
What I hated
was being a child,
having no choice about
what people I loved.

I don’t love my son
the way I meant to love him.
I thought I’d be
the lover of orchids who finds
red trillium growing
in the pine shade, and doesn’t
touch it, doesn’t need
to possess it. What I am
is the scientist,
who comes to that flower
with a magnifying glass
and doesn’t leave, though
the sun burns a brown
circle of grass around
the flower. Which is
more or less the way
my mother loved me.

I must learn
to forgive my mother,
now that I am helpless
to spare my son.

Louise Glück

[CA renter]

If we’re talking about value, what’s the value of someone who creates a new social media app? Angry Birds? Is there value in electronic games, or isn’t that really a destructive innovation that should have negative value?

How do we value things, and why? Is it rational? Do we value things more highly if they give us temporary pleasure, or do we value things more highly if the provide a greater benefit to society? Capitalism has some major drawbacks in this respect, but how else should we value things?

[CA renter]

Good poem.

There is certainly an optimum level of loving/caring, but it probably differs from one parent to another, and one child to another.

Some children thrive, even in the absence of parental love. But some grow cold and become evil psychopaths because of the lack of parental love.

Of course, the opposite can be said, too.

Should we all just throw them out into the world at the age of two and expect them to figure it all out for themselves?

I think we both tend to lean toward the unschooling philosophy; you’re just a bit more extreme about it than I am.

[scaredyclassic]

Raising children is an uncertain thing; success is reached only after a life of battle and worry.
Democritus

i would say probably the best strategy is to take each kid exactly as they are. just like we shouldnt try to change our spouse, we should just let it all be.

but i have a feeling that involves acknowledging boys and girls are just different.

i try to take the long view and from that perspective, not much of the daily disagreement s or shortcomings matter.

[njtosd]

[quote=scaredyclassic]Microrwaves. A quick pass with a swiffer. I see minivans with families scaring McDonald’s in temecula. Day care. I’m not sure it’s worth much in general, just to the right buyer. Limited market.

Men also a net loss.

We aren’t selecting for attributes actively. Just letting the market work. If people have no value, womens,work has no value. If you can afford children by all means, have thrm.

It’s just most people really barely csn.[/quote]

You all need to study evolutionary biology. For instance, if we assume a stock market to which two groups by definition contribute equally, would you ever say one or the other groups is more powerful? Now assume the stock market is the next generation – half the genes come from men and half from women. For every one Ghengis Khan (who had <10,000 offspring), there are all kinds of guys who got none. Women are much more constant in terms of their contribution (hence the relative lack of worry about being a "real woman" etc.). Each gender has evolved different strategies to maximize their representation in future generations. But neither (as a group) can be more powerful.

[scaredyclassic]

i think my reproductive strategy was obedience. seems to have worked, at least till now.

[scaredyclassic]

male power and dominance reaches its apotheosis in current policing techniques and power. this article about officer holtzclaw and his getting away with raping vulnerable female arrestees/drug addicts kinda sums up the carte blance cops get:

http://www.cosmopolitan.com/politics/a49050/daniel-holtzclaw-trial-oklahoma/

I think your feeling that the police are our friends, and get a lot of leeway to exercise their testosterone filled rages on alleged perps, is simply buying into, perhaps unconsciously, the dominant male hold on control of women in our society. cops = male power = sexism at its very worst.

[scaredyclassic]

Feminist sup CT j. Sotomayor rails against police culture of violence.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2015/11/sonia_sotomayor_dissents_in_mullenix_police_shooting_case.html

Question…what percent of cops are men?

Why do you think men will protect you? Just because they have a badge and a cool uniform? Accepting police brutality in the name of community safety sounds a lot like buying into males as protectors, when about 90 perc. Of cops are mrn. And I’m pretty sure the vast majority of cop brutality is perpetrated by msles.

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=CA renter][quote=scaredyclassic]I think most men feel that women’s constant housecleaning has very little to no value. It’s just too much. Just let it be.[/quote]

Have to disagree about that one. My DH cares quite a bit, and I know a number of other husbands who complain that their wives aren’t clean enough.[/quote]

I would like to have a maid who comes daily to clean things like in a hotel. Takes care of water spots on the sinks, etc… That’s worth money.

sometimes I wonder if the housekeeping supervisors in hotels actually live in spotless homes.

Whichever spouse works less outside the home should keep the house shipshape. That’s an obligation. One of my previous tenants makes good money in entertainment so he always meets all kinds of attractive people. He was such a nice guy. But his girlfriend was plain looking, nagged all the time, and only sat on her ass. The guy finally saw the light and gave her the boot.

[CA renter]

[quote=njtosd][quote=scaredyclassic]Microrwaves. A quick pass with a swiffer. I see minivans with families scaring McDonald’s in temecula. Day care. I’m not sure it’s worth much in general, just to the right buyer. Limited market.

Men also a net loss.

We aren’t selecting for attributes actively. Just letting the market work. If people have no value, womens,work has no value. If you can afford children by all means, have thrm.

It’s just most people really barely csn.[/quote]

You all need to study evolutionary biology. For instance, if we assume a stock market to which two groups by definition contribute equally, would you ever say one or the other groups is more powerful? Now assume the stock market is the next generation – half the genes come from men and half from women. For every one Ghengis Khan (who had <10,000 offspring), there are all kinds of guys who got none. Women are much more constant in terms of their contribution (hence the relative lack of worry about being a "real woman" etc.). Each gender has evolved different strategies to maximize their representation in future generations. But neither (as a group) can be more powerful.[/quote]

But there's a difference between contributing equally, and extracting the profits equally. Even if both groups contributed equally, it's entirely possible that one group extracts a greater portion of the benefits. Credit isn't always given where it's due (one could argue that credit is often misattributed).

As to power, in our global society, those who control resources, currencies, and the benefits and capital derived from those resources have the ultimate power. Laws and traditions, going back thousands of years (often justified by religious dogma), were specifically designed to ensure that one group would benefit disproportionately from our social, political, and economic structures. One might wonder whether or not this was the sole original purpose of established religion.

[CA renter]

[quote=scaredyclassic]Feminist sup CT j. Sotomayor rails against police culture of violence.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2015/11/sonia_sotomayor_dissents_in_mullenix_police_shooting_case.html

Question…what percent of cops are men?

Why do you think men will protect you? Just because they have a badge and a cool uniform? Accepting police brutality in the name of community safety sounds a lot like buying into males as protectors, when about 90 perc. Of cops are mrn. And I’m pretty sure the vast majority of cop brutality is perpetrated by msles.[/quote]

I’m strongly opposed to police brutality and abuse of power, but I’m even more strongly opposed to criminals who commit crimes against innocent people (yes, even property crimes). My stance on crime comes from personal interactions with criminals — of note, 100% of the offenders were males. If you want to talk about a culture of violence, you need to address the fact that ~90% of serious violent crimes (rape, homicide, etc.) are committed by males. My own personal bias is to lock up every violent criminal for life, particularly those who commit crimes against innocent or unknown victims.

http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=2221

Why do women want men to protect them? Because men are generally more capable of providing protection due to their generally larger size, greater strength, and more aggressive personality. This is especially true if women are not allowed to arm themselves.

I cannot express enough how differently people behave around a woman who is escorted by a man (especially a larger man) vs. a woman who is alone. I’m sure that most women will attest to having been catcalled by large groups of men (at a minimum), groped, aggressively cornered, molested, raped, etc. at some point in their lives, often by men who are decades older than the victims. Some females have been exposed to many violent/sexually violent situations by the time she is twenty years old. These offenses very rarely occur when women are being escorted by men (this assumes that the escort is a trustworthy male since it’s not terribly uncommon for the escort to become the perpetrator).

All too often, these offenses occur at a very young age (<18 years old), and these exposures to sexually violent men tend to cluster in a girl's youth, when they are ~13-20 years old -- and the younger ones are most definitely understated in official statistics, for obvious reasons. These exposures to violent/sexually violent men at an early age make females feel physically vulnerable where violent men are concerned, and certainly cause women to seek out men who are capable of protecting them from these threats. The age/size differential for young girls who are victimized by older/larger males adds to the perception that men are more powerful, both as a potential threat and as a potential protector.

This is why men who are tall, muscular, and selectively aggressive are sought out by many women. It’s also why so many women end up in abusive situations, because they have a difficult time discerning between those who can protect them from danger and those who are a danger…because these different types of males often share the same traits.

This is why cops and criminals often share the same traits, too. Those who are in charge of selecting law enforcement recruits sometimes have a difficult time discerning between the strong, unafraid, aggressive “good guy” and the strong, unafraid, aggressive “bad guy.” Cops and criminals often share the very same traits, by default.

————————-

“Children

15% of sexual assault and rape victims are under age 12.3

29% are age 12-17.
44% are under age 18.3
80% are under age 30.3
12-34 are the highest risk years.
Girls ages 16-19 are 4 times more likely than the general population to be victims of rape, attempted rape, or sexual assault.”

https://rainn.org/get-information/statistics/sexual-assault-victims

[CA renter]

[quote=scaredyclassic]male power and dominance reaches its apotheosis in current policing techniques and power. this article about officer holtzclaw and his getting away with raping vulnerable female arrestees/drug addicts kinda sums up the carte blance cops get:

http://www.cosmopolitan.com/politics/a49050/daniel-holtzclaw-trial-oklahoma/

I think your feeling that the police are our friends, and get a lot of leeway to exercise their testosterone filled rages on alleged perps, is simply buying into, perhaps unconsciously, the dominant male hold on control of women in our society. cops = male power = sexism at its very worst.[/quote]

I had spent some time reading about that case in the past, but didn’t know that he was acquitted. It doesn’t mention that in the piece that you’ve linked, either.

Clearly, this man is a violent criminal. As with any other violent criminal, he belongs behind bars, possibly for life, IMHO. He is a criminal in character, not a cop — just speaking of character here, not official designation. I do know how to distinguish between the two, while admitting that there are also some grey areas.

In a discussion of this case, this blogger, and some of the excellent commenters, do a good job of showing how sexism is often considered subordinate to racism.

http://www.forharriet.com/2014/09/a-painful-silence-what-daniel-holtzclaw.html

————

But I’m sure that the opinions of these bloggers and commenters won’t count since they’ve actually experienced sexism and racism, thus whatever they see as sexist or racist is clearly just “imagined.” People who have never personally experienced sexism or racism are far more capable of opining about it, as ZK has repeatedly pointed out to us.

[Author]

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