middle school logic

[njtosd]

[quote=scaredyclassic]Because women bear the burden of having kids, they are kind of screwed.[/quote]

Because you constantly feel that you must compete to be a real man, you are most definitely screwed. I have never once in my life questioned whether I am real woman, woman enough, etc. i have never posted pictures of my lats, delta or traps (or whatever) to show that I measure up. And bearing the burden of having kids makes us essential. In many species, the children are fathered by approximately 5-10% of the adult males, but the opposite is never true. 🙂

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=njtosd][quote=scaredyclassic]Because women bear the burden of having kids, they are kind of screwed.[/quote]

Because you constantly feel that you must compete to be a real man, you are most definitely screwed. I have never once in my life questioned whether I am real woman, woman enough, etc. i have never posted pictures of my lats, delta or traps (or whatever) to show that I measure up. And bearing the burden of having kids makes us essential. In many species, the children are fathered by approximately 5-10% of the adult males, but the opposite is never true. :)[/quote]

There is a deep truth here. You must become a man, but a woman simply is.

[scaredyclassic]

There’s a saying, “any one (or dick) can make a,baby but it takes a real man to be a father”.

Doesn’t really work socially if you switch the genders.

A male,must prove himself manly even to remain in the family today.

[scaredyclassic]

Is biology destiny?

[scaredyclassic]

Google “becoming a man”…

Lots of advice. Anxiety. Handwringing. Books. Magazine links.

Google “becoming a woman”.

Caitlin Jenner first hit.

[scaredyclassic]

Because a male is never certain of paternity he must be in a constant state of uncertainty. Perhaps, therefore, “what’s up little bitch”.

[CA renter]

[quote=zk][quote=CA renter]

ZK, you only notice sexism and misogyny when you determine it exists, as per your definition.
[/quote]
CA renter, does it not even occur to you that the exact same thing must be said of you (and everybody else)? The question is, whose perception is closer to reality? And, given your situation with your mother (and your vastly different perception of what’s happening from most people’s), I’d say your perception is quite skewed.
[quote=CA renter]

The objectification of women is one component of sexism, and you don’t even notice how some of your own beliefs and behaviors contribute to the objectification and denigration of women.
[/quote]
You just made that up, and you have no idea what you’re talking about.

[quote=CA renter]

The fact that you have a daughter does not mean that you can spot sexism or misogyny in the same way that a woman can because you have never had to live as a woman. You have never been told that your (less experienced, less educated, less valuable) male peers were paid more than you because they were men or because they have families to support.
[/quote]
So no man can ever spot sexism or misogyny the same way that any woman can? That’s patently ridiculous, and that flawed thinking is more evidence of your irrationality on this matter.

[quote=CA renter]

You have probably never been catcalled and groped by strangers on the street, even when you were a kid. You have no idea what that feels like.
[/quote]
Well, actually I have been catcalled by strangers a couple times. And, I gotta tell you, it felt great. I only wish I’d been groped. That would’ve been really great.

[quote=CA renter]

You are not an expert regarding sexism and misogyny, and you certainly don’t know more than I do about it because of the simple fact that you are not a woman.

[/quote]
So no man is an expert on sexism and misogyny, and no man knows more than any woman? Do you honestly think that makes sense? By that reasoning, a woman with an IQ of 70 who never leaves the house, sits around watching television all day, and never gives sexism a second thought knows more about misogyny and sexism than a man who’s studied it his whole life and has a PhD in Women’s Studies from Harvard. Brilliant.
[quote=CA renter]

Again, the fact that you can’t grasp how the most insulting terms in our show how sexism and misogyny are alive and well in our society is a very clear indication that you are not nearly as aware of sexism and misogyny as you seem to think you are.
[/quote]
You keep twisting this away from what I originally said.
[quote zk]

You really think the fact that female insults are sex-specific while male insults are not is “proof” that misogyny exists “to a large extent?” If that’s all the “proof” you need, then it’s no wonder you overestimate it.[/quote]
It could be considered evidence that misogyny is alive and well to a large extent. Something to be considered in the larger conversation. But proof, all by itself? No.

[quote=CA renter]

The fact that you think that being female makes one biologically inclined to like shopping shows how naive you are regarding this topic.
[/quote]
Good god, you’re exasperating. The fact that you have to misquote me shows how weak your arguments are. I never said that I think being female makes one biologically inclined to like shopping. I said (or implied) that, in general, girls like girls’ activities, and boys like boys’ activities. And that that’s largely due to biological differences.

[quote=CA renter]

I appreciate the fact that you want to be a feminist
[/quote]
I want to be a feminist?
Your condescension is amazing, disgusting, and pathetic all at the same time.
[quote=CA renter]

What we do need to do is get a better understanding of the history and the facts that contribute to our biases and the way we value people, professions, contributions to society, etc.
[/quote]
I concur with that. But starting with the distorted positions and failing logic that you’re starting with won’t make anything better.
[quote=CA renter]

Everything I’ve said here is a fact
[/quote]
I dare you to challenge me to list the non-factual things you’ve said.

You can tell stories about parents segregating their boys from girls. And you can tell us how often it happens. And you can claim that, in every single instance, it was for fear of feminizing boys. But if you ignore the question I asked about whether they actually told you this, and you can’t find one of the people who have done it to explain to you why they think exposing their boys to girls will feminize them, and if no one else has ever witnessed such a thing for such a reason even once, then nobody will believe you.
[quote=CA renter]

— nothing that I’ve written here was imagined or made up — from what girls have to endure on a regular basis, to the way that parents, peers, and others guide very young girls and boys toward behaviors and activities that are gender-based, irrespective of what is natural for those children.
[/quote]
I’m not saying that girls and women don’t have to endure sexism and misogyny. I’m saying that it doesn’t happen to the extent that you see it. You see things as “facts” because you think you’ve seen them with your own eyes. But if your upbringing-addled brain is distorting what you’re seeing, then what you’re “seeing” isn’t really fact.
[quote=CA renter]

Yes, there are biological differences that are related to our different reproductive roles, but these differences are not nearly as dramatic as you think they are.
[/quote]
You wanting that to be true does not make it true.[/quote]

ZK, you can keep trying to convince yourself that you’re a feminist who is an expert on sexism and misogyny, but you’re not. The things you’ve written here show that you don’t even have a basic understanding of it.

No, a male “expert” on feminism will not understand sexism and misogyny even as well as an “average” woman would. That’s like claiming that a white “expert” on racism would know more about racism than an average black person, or that a tall person who’s an “expert” on the lives of little people would understand the discrimination and experiences better than (or even the same as) an actual little person. That’s purely delusional thinking.

[scaredyclassic]

What about the memes and aphorisms like:

“Argument with a woman is like reading the Software License Agreement.. At the end, You ignore everything and click “I Agree”!!..”

Sexist, or indicative of a deeper reality?

Maybe men and women think differently…

Do they need to be right for some reason?

[CA renter]

[quote=scaredyclassic]What about the memes and aphorisms like:

“Argument with a woman is like reading the Software License Agreement.. At the end, You ignore everything and click “I Agree”!!..”

Sexist, or indicative of a deeper reality?

Maybe men and women think differently…

Do they need to be right for some reason?[/quote]

Women don’t need to be right, they need to be heard and understood. Big difference.

Why not look at the merits of each person’s arguments and think more deeply about what they are saying, instead? No need to agree with what they are saying, just agree to think about things from a different perspective.

[CA renter]

[quote=harvey][quote=zk][quote=CA renter]

ZK, you only notice sexism and misogyny when you determine it exists, as per your definition.
[/quote]
CA renter, does it not even occur to you that the exact same thing must be said of you (and everybody else)? The question is, whose perception is closer to reality? And, given your situation with your mother (and your vastly different perception of what’s happening from most people’s), I’d say your perception is quite skewed.
[…]
[/quote]

Good effort, but the message won’t get through.

You can’t overcome Dunning–Kruger .[/quote]

…said the person who loses every argument with me; the one who resorts to ad hominem attacks in every single argument and intentionally “edits” other posters’ quotes and quotes things out of context on a regular basis; the one who almost never cites any data or facts and who doesn’t use logic in his arguments (and complains when others include actual studies and data, with citations), and who never reads about or studies any of the topics he argues about…

Yeah, we get it, Pri…you’re an “expert”!

[NotCranky]

[quote=njtosd][quote=scaredyclassic]Because women bear the burden of having kids, they are kind of screwed.[/quote]

Because you constantly feel that you must compete to be a real man, you are most definitely screwed. I have never once in my life questioned whether I am real woman, woman enough, etc. i have never posted pictures of my lats, delta or traps (or whatever) to show that I measure up. And bearing the burden of having kids makes us essential. In many species, the children are fathered by approximately 5-10% of the adult males, but the opposite is never true. :)[/quote]

If marriage and prostitution were taken out 10% of the males of our species would get 90% of the action with women too.

()(0

[Anonymous]

[quote=CA renter]…said the person who loses every argument with me; […][/quote]

Gee, I thought I won at least one or two.

Of course you can back up this claim, just like all the others you make.

Where is the scoreboard that shows Piggington argument winners and losers?

[zk]

[quote=CA renter]

ZK, you can keep trying to convince yourself that you’re a feminist who is an expert on sexism and misogyny, but you’re not. The things you’ve written here show that you don’t even have a basic understanding of it.
[/quote]

So now you’ve changed your technique from merely misrepresenting my position to misrepresenting my position (I never said I was an “expert”) and saying “The things you’ve written here show that you don’t even have a basic understanding of it” without any explanation for why what I’ve written shows that. You’ve run out of arguments, all of yours having been soundly defeated by me, point by point, and so now you’re just saying, “you clearly don’t understand” with no supporting evidence. Is it not clear to you that you’re flailing wildly and whiffing completely? Most likely the only reason you think you’ve won every argument against Harvey/pri is that you are unable to see when you lose. I didn’t want to make this about winning and losing. I was trying to help you. But your condescension, your misrepresentation of my positions, and your stubbornness make pointing out your inconsistency, your irrationality, and your lack of reasonable arguments irresistible.

[quote=CA renter]

No, a male “expert” on feminism will not understand sexism and misogyny even as well as an “average” woman would. That’s like claiming that a white “expert” on racism would know more about racism than an average black person, or that a tall person who’s an “expert” on the lives of little people would understand the discrimination and experiences better than (or even the same as) an actual little person. That’s purely delusional thinking.
[/quote]

I didn’t say “average.” You did. You consistently misrepresent my position and then argue against that made-up position. Why do you do that? Do you feel your arguments can’t stand up to what I’m actually saying?

You said that I couldn’t understand sexism and misogyny as well as you simply because you’re a woman and I’m a man. Meaning any woman understands misogyny better than every man. I don’t think very many people would agree with you on that.

I’m not even sure that CA renter from October 31 would agree with it:
[quote=CA renter]

I see sexism and misogyny when other people don’t because they are blinded by the systemic nature of it. It is so accepted, and so much a part of our culture and society, that they don’t even notice it.

[/quote]
So, if all these people are blinded by the systemic nature of misogyny, then how would the women who are among those blinded by it understand misogyny more than a man who studies it?

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=CA renter]
Women don’t need to be right, they need to be heard and understood. Big difference.
[/quote]

Stop talking. Start doing. If men understand power, give them power and they’ll listen. Women have 1/2 the votes, they control household budgets, they have the power to make babies men want. Women get custody of kids…..

In America, women can no longer complain about oppression.

[njtosd]

[quote=Blogstar][quote=njtosd][quote=scaredyclassic]Because women bear the burden of having kids, they are kind of screwed.[/quote]

Because you constantly feel that you must compete to be a real man, you are most definitely screwed. I have never once in my life questioned whether I am real woman, woman enough, etc. i have never posted pictures of my lats, delta or traps (or whatever) to show that I measure up. And bearing the burden of having kids makes us essential. In many species, the children are fathered by approximately 5-10% of the adult males, but the opposite is never true. :)[/quote]

If marriage and prostitution were taken out 10% of the males of our species would get 90% of the action with women too.

()(0[/quote]

Probably true. Not really a pleasant prospect for most of us.

[Author]

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