Investment property San Diego

[bearishgurl]

flu, instead of taking up bandwidth, why don’t you explain yourself a little better?

[FlyerInHi]

BG, let’s recap here.

the CL link I posted was for a 1200 sf 2/2 + loft at $1,800 in MM. I think that $2,000 is feasible if the place is updated and modern.

Flu said that a 1/1 in MM goes for $1250 to $1,400.

Those are real, not pie in the sky rents.

We are talking investment rental here. That means returns on investment.

$1,800 for a 2/2 + study is not too much for 2 college educated professionals to share. For trouble free rental, would you rather rent to 2 professionals or a family with kids? I’ve observed that professionals, when they decide to get married and have kids, will go and buy their own place. So families are “lesser”, not as people, but as desirable tenants.

I wouldn’t discriminate against a family, but I’d rather own a rental where I don’t have to deal with families who break things and get my walls dirty. From a landlord and neighbor perspective, kids are little monsters.

I don’t want a tenant who has junk to store in a garage. I want a tenant with easily verifiable income who owns no furniture. A tenant who drives new car that doesn’t leak oil or will break down that he needs to take the bus.

In fact, a guy/gal just off the plane from China, Switzerland, or Russia, or whatever, on a fellowship at UCSD or a new job at Qualcomm is perfect. Those guys, if single, have social networks and will find a roommate to share a 2/2 (there are some ways of landing such tenants but I won’t share them here).

BG, I can tell you that in screening tenants for North Park, vs. Sorrento, I’ve seen the difference. I personally prefer easy to verify tenants because they are less trouble for me.

I personally prefer North Park over Mira Mesa to live (I think that’s why selling prices are relatively higher for lesser housing), but not to own as a landlord.

You need to compartmentalize and focus to achieve your financial goals.

[spdrun]

I’d rather have a 1/1 (or building with 1/1s) if possible, since applicants with kidlets will likely select themselves out.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=AN][quote=bearishgurl]No, FIH has stated here in so many words that he “suspects” tenant-applicants in South County to somehow be “lesser-qualified” than the tenants he is used to dealing with (up north?).

I’m just putting this ridiculous assumption to rest as nothing could be further from the truth.
[/quote]You’re responding to me about a point that I didn’t make? I don’t care how many section 8 there area. I do care who are the majority renters.[/quote]

My point is/was that “poor people” and otherwise “unqualified” renters (without a subsidy) reside almost everywhere in the county. I used your preference example because I have heard those same three communities espoused as “preferred communities” to purchase rental investments in elsewhere on this blog and have also repeatedly read here over the years that posters felt rental applicants applying for housing south of I-8 were somehow “lesser qualified” than those applying north of I-8. Obviously, they’re misinformed. (ex: FIH admitted here that he hasn’t visited Chula Vista yet and he’s “typical” of those previous posters.) It’s all BS. It has nothing to do with high-tech jobs. Only a fraction of SD County tenants work in high tech (I don’t know what that fraction is, but it’s the minority). Yes, it’s even a minority of “single” tenants.

I’m sure you’re aware that a “professional” isn’t necessarily a high-tech worker.

Your re-mention of this preference today was convenient for me to use. It was nothing personal aimed at you, AN.

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=spdrun]I’d rather have a 1/1 (or building with 1/1s) if possible, since applicants with kidlets will likely select themselves out.[/quote]

I’d rather have 2 1/1 over a 2/2. But it’s much harder to do now.

It sounded the OP wanted 1 purchase at under $400k and she was comparing to an old house in North Park.

[spdrun]

I’d personally split it whichever way made the highest return. She may have been thinking that one unit was the best she could do, but she should remain flexible if that’s not the case.

[spdrun]

dup, please delete.

[an]

Bg, just because I said MM, PW, and RB because there are a lot of high tech renters doesn’t mean there are no low income renters in those areas. I hope you can tell the difference.

[FlyerInHi]

BG, If you want to understand the market in the UTC/Sorrento area, go visit all the apartment complexes in the area and see how much they charge. You will be surprised.

If you own a condo and make it look sharp, you can charge more than the apartments.

When pricing my condos, I always visit the nearby apartment complexes.

That new massive apartment complex at Mira Mesa and I15 was built because of the pent up demand in the area. That will relieve some of the supply constraint and will cause the small landlords to update in order to compete, otherwise, they will have to take the “lesser” tenants.

But at Calle Cristobal, that’s a 5 min bike ride down to Sorrento. There is no competition there, except for the new condos by Pardee (for sale only, not for rent). There’re also some condos off of Mira Blvd but those are not as nice.

Mira Mesa is interesting in that it’s similar to North Park in the sense that it’s gentrifying. NP is gentrifying because it’s the new Hillcrest. MM is gentrifying because of the tech workers.

In North Park, La Boheme would about the best condo complex to own in. In Mira Mesa it would be Canyon Park Villas (for older complex) or Sorrento Ridge/Terrace (brand new). Waterridge in 92121 is a different zip.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=AN][quote=bearishgurl]I digress. There was little or nothing built on the land from I-805 to the west, which was part of MM, until the last few years. The area IS part of the City (MM) but has only recently been developed.[/quote]Seriously BG, do some research before you speak. The 92121 part of Mira Mesa has been built out for 15 years. Is 15 years now the new “last few years”? Most of Calle Cristobal was built over 20 years ago.[/quote]

AN, of course you know that 92121 is Sorrento Mesa/Valley, NOT MM (92126). Regardless of any SFR tracts built on Calle Cristobal, the development(s) that FIH is referring to is relatively new, as are those nearby “spec-home” monstrosities that we’ve discussed here a few times.

[quote=AN][quote=bearishgurl]Here in South County, the vast majority of condos have at least a std one-car garage and most have a two-car garage. I guess that’s the difference in congestion levels due to zoning differences between MM and Chula Vista (and surrounds). Garages and storage space (which they would have to pay dearly for at a self-storage biz) are very important to tenants. Especially if they have a pricey vehicle which could easily get hit, scratched or vandalized while parked in a condo parking lot.[/quote]
What you’re describing in South County is the exactly reason why there are a demographic difference between the area. What’s important to those who live in South County doesn’t necessary be what’s important to those who live in Mira Mesa. You can’t take your South County view point and apply to other areas.[/quote]

Of course, any tenant would prefer a garage to park in or store things in over not having one. AN, I don’t know if you are old enough to remember, but for about 15 years (1984ish to 1999), the UTC pkg lot was the SD County capitol of auto theft and auto vandalism. MM had (and still has?) more car-alarm installation businesses and “chop shops” than anyplace else in the county. Why?? Favorable zoning for those types of biz and having a “captive audience” for their services. Go figure.

***

I don’t buy FIH’s statement that there aren’t any rentals to choose from in UTC (northern part of 92122) when UTC area has primarily ALL multifamily units (all or nearly all with garages, I might add). UTC area IS competition for MM rentals but they are generally bigger (often MUCH bigger), have inside or garage laundry areas and have garages. Thus, the rents there are generally higher than MM but nevertheless, they are competition to MM’s rental units for the same tenant-applicant pool.

[quote=AN][quote=bearishgurl]Although some seem to do it, I agree that South County is too far for most workers to drive RT daily to Sorrento Valley/Mesa to work. That is the ONLY REASON why Chula V’s asking prices for starter SFRs seem to be lower than those in other, closer areas to major job centers. They are NOT lesser houses, lesser neighborhoods or somehow have lesser-intelligent or poorer residents living there than do rentals in other parts of the county. When one looks at the price of mid-level, executive and luxury housing in South County, most of it is every bit as expensive as that in other parts of the county. This is because this type of housing isn’t usually used as a rental.[/quote]I hope you know that you’re contradicting yourself in this paragraph. The distance IS one of the reason why the demographics are different. Because the demographic is different, the rest kinda explain itself. If you prefer to rent to professionals, either fresh grads or H1B working at Qualcomm, then you wouldn’t be buying in Chula Vista. You’ll be buying where they want to live, which is Mira Mesa. The demographic is the way it is. Deal with it. We’re talking about $400k rentals here, not some mansions. Those who rent a $400k rental are not the same type of people who buy executive & luxury housing in South County.[/quote]

Again, the “professionals” you speak of are only the ones that need or wish to be near certain firms. I’m sure you’re aware that there are many other types of “professionals” which exist in the real world who do not work at Qualcomm. The only way the (rental) demographic is different in your area than South County is the possible difference in occupation. This in no way means that professionals who do not work in high-tech are somehow lesser-intelligent, poorer or don’t have the same housing expectations that high-tech professionals do. They have a different type of job and that is as far as the differences go.

If you feel the “demographic is different” between MM and South County and the difference is not due to intelligence, household income or amount of “professionals” residing in each area, then please let us all know here why you think so.

I’m waiting with bated breath 🙂

[bearishgurl]

[quote=AN]Bg, just because I said MM, PW, and RB because there are a lot of high tech renters doesn’t mean there are no low income renters in those areas. I hope you can tell the difference.[/quote]

Sometimes it’s hard to tell the difference, AN. If the market rent in PQ is $1800 mo for a small 3 bdrm with a garage, the tenant in unit #101 is paying $1800 mo and the tenant next door in their mirror (identical) unit (#102) is paying $225 with a $1575 Section 8 voucher, you might not be able to tell which is which.

Don’t count on being able to tell who the “Section 8” tenant is by the vehicle they drive or the clothing they wear. OR whether each works FT or not, because, believe it or not, some Section 8 tenants are allowed to work FT.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=FlyerInHi]BG, let’s recap here.

the CL link I posted was for a 1200 sf 2/2 + loft at $1,800 in MM. I think that $2,000 is feasible if the place is updated and modern.

Flu said that a 1/1 in MM goes for $1250 to $1,400.

Those are real, not pie in the sky rents.

We are talking investment rental here. That means returns on investment.

$1,800 for a 2/2 + study is not too much for 2 college educated professionals to share. For trouble free rental, would you rather rent to 2 professionals or a family with kids? I’ve observed that professionals, when they decide to get married and have kids, will go and buy their own place. So families are “lesser”, not as people, but as desirable tenants.

I wouldn’t discriminate against a family, but I’d rather own a rental where I don’t have to deal with families who break things and get my walls dirty. From a landlord and neighbor perspective, kids are little monsters.

I don’t want a tenant who has junk to store in a garage. I want a tenant with easily verifiable income who owns no furniture. A tenant who drives new car that doesn’t leak oil or will break down that he needs to take the bus.

In fact, a guy/gal just off the plane from China, Switzerland, or Russia, or whatever, on a fellowship at UCSD or a new job at Qualcomm is perfect. Those guys, if single, have social networks and will find a roommate to share a 2/2 (there are some ways of landing such tenants but I won’t share them here).

BG, I can tell you that in screening tenants for North Park, vs. Sorrento, I’ve seen the difference. I personally prefer easy to verify tenants because they are less trouble for me.

I personally prefer North Park over Mira Mesa to live (I think that’s why selling prices are relatively higher for lesser housing), but not to own as a landlord.

You need to compartmentalize and focus to achieve your financial goals.[/quote]

I looked at the photos of the listings you provided again and they do appear to be 2 bdrm condos. Both condos appear to be on the small side compared to the (mostly lesser-expensive but mostly fully rehabbed) links of available SFRs in Chula Vista I posted. If you think you could consistently get $1800 to $2000 rent per month (what, with a gold-plated spiral stair-rail?) for one of these units, I just have a hard time believing that, given that I have been inside a handful of units in 92122. The units I visited friends in were very well-managed complexes in direct competition to your newer MM units, ALL of which were 1750 to 2200 sf with an attached 2-car garage. Once rents start nearing the $2K mark, the typical tenant-applicant starts shopping for a SFR or house-like condo to rent. And who can blame them?

Sorry but MM/UTC is NOT SF and never will be.

I stand by my assertion that it’s wacky to pay $1800+ for a small, narrow, 2 bdrm condo with no garage … even in SD and/or MM, because there are so many other choices at that rental price point.

[FlyerInHi]

I don’t know PQ as well, but I did some research. Most the Section 8 renters in PQ are in city owned complexes. They don’t live in the condo complexes where the rents are higher.

On the demographics, I will answer the question.

I don’t now about intelligence, but for qualification purposes, I would rather have employment verification from UCSD, Qualcomm, Motorola, Lumina, Genprobe, etc… I don’t really trust income verification from the bar in hillcrest, or the hair shop in Chula Vista. I don’t want to talk to someone’s boss or manager either because they could be in it together. I prefer an official verification from HR.

I also prefer that they drive new cars and don’t have furniture to move from storage or another rental.

On size, 1200sf is 1200sf. Some of the links you posted were about that size, no?

It’s not whack to pay $1800 if you work less than 15 minutes away.

Again, I’m waiting for links in the city of San Diego for $350k, not Chula Vista and not in El Cajon, please. What are the choices?

[SK in CV]

[quote=bearishgurl]
I stand by my assertion that it’s wacky to pay $1800+ for a small, narrow, 2 bdrm condo with no garage … even in SD and/or MM, because there are so many other choices at that rental price point.[/quote]

This is basically why this discussion is going on as long as it has. You think it’s wacky. Which has absolutely no bearing on the discussion. Tenants ARE paying it, so it doesn’t matter what you think of it.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=FlyerInHi]I don’t know PQ as well, but I did some research. Most the Section 8 renters in PQ are in city owned complexes. They don’t live in the condo complexes where the rents are higher.

On the demographics, I will answer the question.

I don’t now about intelligence, but for qualification purposes, I would rather have employment verification from UCSD, Qualcomm, Motorola, Lumina, Genprobe, etc… I don’t really trust income verification from the bar in hillcrest, or the hair shop in Chula Vista. I don’t want to talk to someone’s boss or manager either because they could be in it together. I prefer an official verification from HR.

I also prefer that they drive new cars and don’t have furniture to move from storage or another rental.

On size, 1200sf is 1200sf. Some of the links you posted were about that size, no?

It’s not whack to pay $1800 if you work less than 15 minutes away.

Again, I’m waiting for links in the city of San Diego for $350k, not Chula Vista and not in El Cajon, please. What are the choices?[/quote]

My point was, FIH, that you think, as a LL, you can’t get employment verification from “HR” except for properties in your one or two desired rental zip codes. By this statement, you are in essence stating that NP tenant-applicants or ChulaV applicants or wherever else you feel is “inferior” to those close-in zips to tech centers don’t have “proper” employment verification. I don’t buy it because PLENTY of tenants (yes, even in the lowest-income zip codes in SD) have employment verification from HR available to a prospective LL. And, FWIW, there are likely plenty of “hairdressers” renting (and owning) in MM.

It seems every time a new poster comes on here and asks about investment property, they are “steered” to invest in a condo in the MM area (even if they were shopping far away from there, as this poster was).

I kept the subject SFRs because that is what the OP stated she was shopping for. I’m pretty sure she’s aware that condos exist in SD.

And why would any tenant want to pay $1800 to $2000 mo for rent if they didn’t have anything to move into the place? Why wouldn’t a tenant like that rent a furnished room in a private home, instead. It doesn’t make sense.

I haven’t looked around in 92115 yet and I only looked at SFRs in 92104/92116, found some, but was not happy with the sf of the dwelling or lot for the asking price. Yes, some “starter homes” are the same size as condos inside BUT have the privacy of a home, off-st parking for up to six cars AND possible garage. You can’t change the fact that a condo owner (not PUD) only owns airspace. And a “fractional interest” at that. They basically just own the right to control a particular unit … but only to the extent allowed by the HOA.

You are suggesting apt-like condos as rental investments for this poster. SFRs (with front/backyard and poss garage) are completely different animals and thus start and end at a higher price point than condos in each area. Of course, if I changed my search parameters to condos, I could likely find a few everywhere that meet the OP’s criteria in almost all zip codes. I didn’t consider condos for her because of the HOA dues and possible special assessments. I don’t think paying dues every month is worth it for a small investment property if a prospective LL can get the same or nearly the same rent for the same purchase price without doing so. Yes, even for a free and clear property. It’s NOT WORTH IT for a LL TO PAY MO DUES if they don’t have to. The OP lives in metro SD, NOT MM and NOT out of county and so can manage a local SFR herself, after learning the ropes. It isn’t rocket science.

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