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FlyerInHi.
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July 18, 2017 at 6:27 AM #22378July 18, 2017 at 7:34 AM #807226
FlyerInHi
GuestIt’s a great opportunity for Trump to speak up. But Trump was silent on Hong Kong’s 20 year return to china. Trump was silent on Liu Xiabo.
OC renter, weren’t you hopeful that Trump would be tough on China that you’d give him a pass on everything else?
Do you think that China’s trademark awards to Trump was coincidence? Now Ivanka has applications pending.
BTW, China’s economy is bigger by 15% than the US’ in purchasing power parity. But our free press doesn’t like to report that because that would make us #2.
The US chamber of commerce in Beijing sent a delegation to DC to warn about China’s policies to support 21st century industries such as renewable energy, cloud computing, transport, etc…. but not to worry, China will fail anyway because government intervention never works.
Remember when more than a decade ago experts said the Internet Great Wall of China would crumble in no time?
July 18, 2017 at 1:12 PM #807234ocrenter
Participant[quote=FlyerInHi]It’s a great opportunity for Trump to speak up. But Trump was silent on Hong Kong’s 20 year return to china. Trump was silent on Liu Xiabo.
OC renter, weren’t you hopeful that Trump would be tough on China that you’d give him a pass on everything else?
Do you think that China’s trademark awards to Trump was coincidence? Now Ivanka has applications pending.
BTW, China’s economy is bigger by 15% than the US’ in purchasing power parity. But our free press doesn’t like to report that because that would make us #2.
The US chamber of commerce in Beijing sent a delegation to DC to warn about China’s policies to support 21st century industries such as renewable energy, cloud computing, transport, etc…. but not to worry, China will fail anyway because government intervention never works.
Remember when more than a decade ago experts said the Internet Great Wall of China would crumble in no time?[/quote]
Nope, never gave Trump a pass.
July 18, 2017 at 3:58 PM #807237spdrun
ParticipantLet China burn, it would be a hell of an opportunity if they slow down the world ecahhhhnamy with them. Isolation seldom bodes well for long term economic health.
July 18, 2017 at 7:59 PM #807240Guest[quote=spdrun]Let China burn, it would be a hell of an opportunity if they slow down the world ecahhhhnamy with them. Isolation seldom bodes well for long term economic health.[/quote]
Huh? Chinese professionals are anything but isolated. They speaks English and they know what Is generally going on in the West because they see us as competitors; and they are laser focused on making money. Granted they don’t much care about democracy because they are not exposed. The censors are going a good job. But that has nothing to do with the economy.
Think of China as a giant Singapore. In 2000 Singaporeans were poorer than us, now they are richer, never mind democracy. To get rich is glorious and money is freedom.
July 18, 2017 at 8:08 PM #807241Guestocrenter, your comments imply that Xi Jinping is an insecure paper tiger. Do you really believe that?
By all accounts Xi is the most powerful leader since Deng Xioaping. He is confident and can do what he wants.
July 19, 2017 at 7:14 AM #807242Participant[quote=FlyerInHi]ocrenter, your comments imply that Xi Jinping is an insecure paper tiger. Do you really believe that?
By all accounts Xi is the most powerful leader since Deng Xioaping. He is confident and can do what he wants.[/quote]
The idea here is the more insecure one is, the tighter the grip. The Chinese economy is riding on fluff with lax lending and relentless borrowing and bubbling real estate at all level. Foreign investors are retreating. The more developed economies of the coastal provinces now have to deal with more environmentally minded citizenry and their frequent protests (which goes unreported). On the political front he has made numerous enemies with his anti-corruption campaign, which simply cracks down on political rivals.
Is it any surprise that Xi is reactivating decade old border conflict with India just months away from the 19th CCP party congress this fall?
China is far less free now than a few years ago. Just today, we hear of further tightening with the blocking of WhatsApp services. I literally just read that article in the NYT when I happened upon your post here.
Let’s just look at Trump. He doesn’t have the ability to shut off Facebook or control the press. Instead, he just calls the press fake, as his position grows weaker, the fake press rallying cry gets louder. Would you say he is confident? Same idea, but applied in a country where the insecure leader CAN restrict the press and everything else and does with increasing ferocity.
July 19, 2017 at 10:48 AM #807243GuestHere’s a timely article on how China tames the internet. I just think China wants to insure stabillity by not allowing critics of the government to gain momentum. That’s all.
Xi is very powerful and he’s able to push his policies through. Yes, the Chinese middle class knows environmental pollution is a problem. But they are also millionaires sitting on huge real estate equity and other wealth they likely could not have accumulated had they immigrated to the West decades ago. Hence the push to renewables and China replacing American leadership as Trump retreats. Xi has been very supportive of Davos and Paris, economy and environment, the two most important issues for the Chinese educated class. Education would be third.
The border disputes with India is politics just like Iran was used by Trump during the elections. Makes people more nationalistic.
Xi has a tough job pivoting the Chinese economy to consumerism. I think he’ll pull it off. The construction companies have Belt and Road to keep working. That will help them gain more experience, international goodwill and export their high speed trains, telecom networks, create new markets, etc. That will also develop the hinterland and narrow the rural-coastal wealth gap.
I see products from China becoming international quality. So I see China moving to the next stage of development where they are creative and setting standards.
I’m not betting against China. People have poo-pooed China for the last thirty years and they have been proven wrong. Those same people are now forced to accept Chinese money which they called fake before.
Sure, China coiuld liberalize and they are in the area of travel and personal freedoms. But they won’t loosen the party’s grip on government, not until China is an advanced economy.
Maybe I’ve been listening too much to Kevin Rudd and Malcolm Turnbull. They have tied Australia’s future to China and Australia has so far done very well.
July 19, 2017 at 12:12 PM #807245Participant[quote=FlyerInHi]Here’s a timely article on how China tames the internet. I just think China wants to insure stabillity by not allowing critics of the government to gain momentum. That’s all.
Xi is very powerful and he’s able to push his policies through. Yes, the Chinese middle class knows environmental pollution is a problem. But they are also millionaires sitting on huge real estate equity and other wealth they likely could not have accumulated had they immigrated to the West decades ago. Hence the push to renewables and China replacing American leadership as Trump retreats. Xi has been very supportive of Davos and Paris, economy and environment, the two most important issues for the Chinese educated class. Education would be third.
The border disputes with India is politics just like Iran was used by Trump during the elections. Makes people more nationalistic.
Xi has a tough job pivoting the Chinese economy to consumerism. I think he’ll pull it off. The construction companies have Belt and Road to keep working. That will help them gain more experience, international goodwill and export their high speed trains, telecom networks, create new markets, etc. That will also develop the hinterland and narrow the rural-coastal wealth gap.
I see products from China becoming international quality. So I see China moving to the next stage of development where they are creative and setting standards.
I’m not betting against China. People have poo-pooed China for the last thirty years and they have been proven wrong. Those same people are now forced to accept Chinese money which they called fake before.
Sure, China coiuld liberalize and they are in the area of travel and personal freedoms. But they won’t loosen the party’s grip on government, not until China is an advanced economy.
Maybe I’ve been listening too much to Kevin Rudd and Malcolm Turnbull. They have tied Australia’s future to China and Australia has so far done very well.[/quote]
Exhibit 743 on giving China the pass.
All in the name of stability.
Maybe Trump should learn from the Chinese and stabilize us.
July 19, 2017 at 2:20 PM #807246GuestI don’t think I’m giving China a pass. Just a realistic assessment. What purpose does it serve to be wishfully negative then proven wrong?
America should speak up whenever possible on human rights and democracy. But unfortunately few in the world are listening to us now because of our actions since 9/11.
We could learn from China and be more cooperative in foreign affairs. China just financed and built a new train in Kenya. We don’t see American projects like that.
http://www.newsweek.com/kenya-railway-china-madaraka-express-618357
July 19, 2017 at 2:50 PM #807247The-Shoveler
ParticipantIts not that china helps or does things, it is that China stays out of everyone’s else biz.
It precisely that we get involved in human rights etc.. (rightly or wrongly) is what leaves other countries with a bad taste in their mouths.
Anyway they have almost total control of their economy so it is hard to see that failing IMO.
BTW they are by far the largest foreign buyers of USA-RE.
They can turn the dial up or down at will (I have personally seen it).
July 19, 2017 at 7:54 PM #807248GuestShoveler, you seem really bullish on China. You,ve said before that China is the bank.
What do you make of the notion that government economic planning is bound to fail?
July 20, 2017 at 7:21 AM #807250Participant“What do you make of the notion that government economic planning is bound to fail?”
Hard to say, if done well I see no reason for it to fail.
Same for free markets (if managed well).
I think all successfully run governments are a mixture of both.
Both have bad and good. Both can be really really bad if not managed correctly and left to go to extremes.
When I say China “IS THE BANK” I mean the china Gov runs the banks and can decide who and how much for what and how much money to print (they totally control it).
Even down to what a bowl of rice cost today.
They will tell you what the inflation rate will be this month week or day.July 20, 2017 at 1:32 PM #807251GuestWow, Shoveler. Sounds like the Middle Kingdom has been restored to greatness.
I don’t think the Chinese are that powerful. But they have a lot of well qualified people with PhDs, many engineers running the country.
I just worry about our old fashioned approaches… our badass thinking leads to military intervention whereas China uses economic power. We spend $ trillion on military adventures and China builds infrastructure that give them revenue concessions and create new markets for their exports.
Our population is so unaware of global affairs and business. Sad, as Trump would say.
On China railway you can now order food to your seat on smart phones, to be delivered by local restaurants at the trains arrive the stations. Very advanced since the high speed trains stop for only a few minutes.
July 20, 2017 at 1:40 PM #807252Participant[quote=FlyerInHi]Wow, Shoveler. Sounds like the Middle Kingdom has been restored to greatness.
I don’t think the Chinese are that powerful. But they have a lot of well qualified people with PhDs, many engineers running the country.
I just worry about our old fashioned approaches… our badass thinking leads to military intervention whereas China uses economic power. We spend $ trillion on military adventures and China builds infrastructure that give them revenue concessions and create new markets for their exports.
Our population is so unaware of global affairs and business. Sad, as Trump would say.
On China railway you can now order food to your seat on smart phones, to be delivered by local restaurants at the trains arrive the stations. Very advanced since the high speed trains stop for only a few minutes.[/quote]
This is the reason why a lot of people voted for Trump.
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