HS teacher-$70K for 9 months of work

[jficquette]

[quote=UCGal]A couple of points.
* Most school districts have longer school years than 9 months. San Diego unified is closer to 10 months. (Gets out mid June, teacher report back mid-August.)

* The OP talked about a high school math/physics teacher. So it’s reasonable to compare education to an engineer. And the 70k salary suggests a masters degree. San Diego Unified posts their salary grades online. It maxes out at 87.6k for a 200day contract – that’s for a teacher with a masters, plus 90 additional academic units, plus max tenure.

(Link to San Diego Unified teacher pay scale:
http://www.sandi.net/20451072011454857/lib/20451072011454857/salaryschedules/teachers.pdf
Note – teachers are on 200 day contracts – see page 9 for annual salaries.)

I’m an engineer. I’ve known well paid engineers who didn’t even have a bachelors degree – worked they’re way up from being a tech or started in some other field and ‘fell into’ software or embedded programming. Some were talented… some more talented than their coworkers who had advanced engineering degrees.

I’ve also know well paid engineers who are NOT worth the salary their paid. I think there are losers and lazy people in every field.[/quote]

You have to factor in their retirement. Any teacher 40 and younger will probably live bar accidents to 120 because in 30 years they won’t be any heart disease, cancer, or diabetes.

My guess is you would probably have to double or triple their salary to compensate for 30-50 years of pay after retirement.

Its not fair that the taxpayer fund these juicy retirement deals for so called underpaid public servants when non government workers get shafted on their retirement.

Privatize education, don’t fund these crazy retirement plans and pay the good teachers who make the grade what they deserve.

John

[CA renter]

[quote=UCGal]Another small point about teachers. My sister (a teacher) has made it abundantly clear to me that there is more to being a subject matter expert to qualify you for teaching. You also have to learn the skill set of teaching – conveying the information in multiple ways – because not all students learn the same way. This is especially true in math. So math teachers not only have to understand the math concepts they are teaching – they have to be able to approach the concept from different directions – and communicate that to the class.

My sister grew up in the same house I did. Math ruled. Our Dad was an engineer. She worked in an engineering environment for years. When she went back to school to learn how to teach – she discovered her skillset was entirely inadequate. She could negotiate contracts with the pentagon, but didn’t have the skillset to teach. She had to get a credential and do a lot more coursework, in addition to her undergrad and masters she already had.

Since so many of us are engineers – I’m sure we’ve all had those “a-ha” moments in college where a hard topic suddenly clicked and the light bulb went off. It was because the teacher had found the way to explain that it worked for YOU… your classmate may have gotten it with a different explanation. Teaching is about showing multiple ways to solve something. Different students respond to different approaches.

I’m good at math. I’m a decent engineer. I’d be horrible as a teacher for so many reasons. I’m impatient. I’m not the best communicator. I want to solve the problems rather than teach others how to solve them. And so I sit in a cubicle in Sorrento Mesa rather than in front of a classroom. I picked the correct career path for me. My sister is a very good teacher… and I am a witness that she works as hard or harder than me.

I don’t begrudge teachers. There’s a lot more to it than you realize.[/quote]

UCGal,

That was an exceptionally good post. You are exactly right.

What makes a good teacher is NOT their expertise in a particular subject. It is their understanding of how students learn at various stages of development.

Teachers have to intuitively understand a student’s background, knowledge, learning style, and abilities, so that they can tailor their teaching to optimize the student’s understanding of the subject matter.

They also have to make the subject matter meaningful to the students, so that the students are motivated to learn and seek out information and gain understanding on their own.

In addition to all this, they need to have a decent grasp of the subject matter, and they have to convey the information while maintaining discipline and keeping 20-45 students on task (and challenged) at all times.

To those who say teachers should make $30K/year because their job is “too easy,” I challenge you to step up to the plate, and teach for a couple of years. Only after you’ve done it will you have earned the right to come back and tell us how overpaid and underworked teachers are.

[CA renter]

[quote=UCGal]Another small point about teachers. My sister (a teacher) has made it abundantly clear to me that there is more to being a subject matter expert to qualify you for teaching. You also have to learn the skill set of teaching – conveying the information in multiple ways – because not all students learn the same way. This is especially true in math. So math teachers not only have to understand the math concepts they are teaching – they have to be able to approach the concept from different directions – and communicate that to the class.

My sister grew up in the same house I did. Math ruled. Our Dad was an engineer. She worked in an engineering environment for years. When she went back to school to learn how to teach – she discovered her skillset was entirely inadequate. She could negotiate contracts with the pentagon, but didn’t have the skillset to teach. She had to get a credential and do a lot more coursework, in addition to her undergrad and masters she already had.

Since so many of us are engineers – I’m sure we’ve all had those “a-ha” moments in college where a hard topic suddenly clicked and the light bulb went off. It was because the teacher had found the way to explain that it worked for YOU… your classmate may have gotten it with a different explanation. Teaching is about showing multiple ways to solve something. Different students respond to different approaches.

I’m good at math. I’m a decent engineer. I’d be horrible as a teacher for so many reasons. I’m impatient. I’m not the best communicator. I want to solve the problems rather than teach others how to solve them. And so I sit in a cubicle in Sorrento Mesa rather than in front of a classroom. I picked the correct career path for me. My sister is a very good teacher… and I am a witness that she works as hard or harder than me.

I don’t begrudge teachers. There’s a lot more to it than you realize.[/quote]

UCGal,

That was an exceptionally good post. You are exactly right.

What makes a good teacher is NOT their expertise in a particular subject. It is their understanding of how students learn at various stages of development.

Teachers have to intuitively understand a student’s background, knowledge, learning style, and abilities, so that they can tailor their teaching to optimize the student’s understanding of the subject matter.

They also have to make the subject matter meaningful to the students, so that the students are motivated to learn and seek out information and gain understanding on their own.

In addition to all this, they need to have a decent grasp of the subject matter, and they have to convey the information while maintaining discipline and keeping 20-45 students on task (and challenged) at all times.

To those who say teachers should make $30K/year because their job is “too easy,” I challenge you to step up to the plate, and teach for a couple of years. Only after you’ve done it will you have earned the right to come back and tell us how overpaid and underworked teachers are.

[CA renter]

[quote=UCGal]Another small point about teachers. My sister (a teacher) has made it abundantly clear to me that there is more to being a subject matter expert to qualify you for teaching. You also have to learn the skill set of teaching – conveying the information in multiple ways – because not all students learn the same way. This is especially true in math. So math teachers not only have to understand the math concepts they are teaching – they have to be able to approach the concept from different directions – and communicate that to the class.

My sister grew up in the same house I did. Math ruled. Our Dad was an engineer. She worked in an engineering environment for years. When she went back to school to learn how to teach – she discovered her skillset was entirely inadequate. She could negotiate contracts with the pentagon, but didn’t have the skillset to teach. She had to get a credential and do a lot more coursework, in addition to her undergrad and masters she already had.

Since so many of us are engineers – I’m sure we’ve all had those “a-ha” moments in college where a hard topic suddenly clicked and the light bulb went off. It was because the teacher had found the way to explain that it worked for YOU… your classmate may have gotten it with a different explanation. Teaching is about showing multiple ways to solve something. Different students respond to different approaches.

I’m good at math. I’m a decent engineer. I’d be horrible as a teacher for so many reasons. I’m impatient. I’m not the best communicator. I want to solve the problems rather than teach others how to solve them. And so I sit in a cubicle in Sorrento Mesa rather than in front of a classroom. I picked the correct career path for me. My sister is a very good teacher… and I am a witness that she works as hard or harder than me.

I don’t begrudge teachers. There’s a lot more to it than you realize.[/quote]

UCGal,

That was an exceptionally good post. You are exactly right.

What makes a good teacher is NOT their expertise in a particular subject. It is their understanding of how students learn at various stages of development.

Teachers have to intuitively understand a student’s background, knowledge, learning style, and abilities, so that they can tailor their teaching to optimize the student’s understanding of the subject matter.

They also have to make the subject matter meaningful to the students, so that the students are motivated to learn and seek out information and gain understanding on their own.

In addition to all this, they need to have a decent grasp of the subject matter, and they have to convey the information while maintaining discipline and keeping 20-45 students on task (and challenged) at all times.

To those who say teachers should make $30K/year because their job is “too easy,” I challenge you to step up to the plate, and teach for a couple of years. Only after you’ve done it will you have earned the right to come back and tell us how overpaid and underworked teachers are.

[CA renter]

[quote=UCGal]Another small point about teachers. My sister (a teacher) has made it abundantly clear to me that there is more to being a subject matter expert to qualify you for teaching. You also have to learn the skill set of teaching – conveying the information in multiple ways – because not all students learn the same way. This is especially true in math. So math teachers not only have to understand the math concepts they are teaching – they have to be able to approach the concept from different directions – and communicate that to the class.

My sister grew up in the same house I did. Math ruled. Our Dad was an engineer. She worked in an engineering environment for years. When she went back to school to learn how to teach – she discovered her skillset was entirely inadequate. She could negotiate contracts with the pentagon, but didn’t have the skillset to teach. She had to get a credential and do a lot more coursework, in addition to her undergrad and masters she already had.

Since so many of us are engineers – I’m sure we’ve all had those “a-ha” moments in college where a hard topic suddenly clicked and the light bulb went off. It was because the teacher had found the way to explain that it worked for YOU… your classmate may have gotten it with a different explanation. Teaching is about showing multiple ways to solve something. Different students respond to different approaches.

I’m good at math. I’m a decent engineer. I’d be horrible as a teacher for so many reasons. I’m impatient. I’m not the best communicator. I want to solve the problems rather than teach others how to solve them. And so I sit in a cubicle in Sorrento Mesa rather than in front of a classroom. I picked the correct career path for me. My sister is a very good teacher… and I am a witness that she works as hard or harder than me.

I don’t begrudge teachers. There’s a lot more to it than you realize.[/quote]

UCGal,

That was an exceptionally good post. You are exactly right.

What makes a good teacher is NOT their expertise in a particular subject. It is their understanding of how students learn at various stages of development.

Teachers have to intuitively understand a student’s background, knowledge, learning style, and abilities, so that they can tailor their teaching to optimize the student’s understanding of the subject matter.

They also have to make the subject matter meaningful to the students, so that the students are motivated to learn and seek out information and gain understanding on their own.

In addition to all this, they need to have a decent grasp of the subject matter, and they have to convey the information while maintaining discipline and keeping 20-45 students on task (and challenged) at all times.

To those who say teachers should make $30K/year because their job is “too easy,” I challenge you to step up to the plate, and teach for a couple of years. Only after you’ve done it will you have earned the right to come back and tell us how overpaid and underworked teachers are.

[CA renter]

[quote=UCGal]Another small point about teachers. My sister (a teacher) has made it abundantly clear to me that there is more to being a subject matter expert to qualify you for teaching. You also have to learn the skill set of teaching – conveying the information in multiple ways – because not all students learn the same way. This is especially true in math. So math teachers not only have to understand the math concepts they are teaching – they have to be able to approach the concept from different directions – and communicate that to the class.

My sister grew up in the same house I did. Math ruled. Our Dad was an engineer. She worked in an engineering environment for years. When she went back to school to learn how to teach – she discovered her skillset was entirely inadequate. She could negotiate contracts with the pentagon, but didn’t have the skillset to teach. She had to get a credential and do a lot more coursework, in addition to her undergrad and masters she already had.

Since so many of us are engineers – I’m sure we’ve all had those “a-ha” moments in college where a hard topic suddenly clicked and the light bulb went off. It was because the teacher had found the way to explain that it worked for YOU… your classmate may have gotten it with a different explanation. Teaching is about showing multiple ways to solve something. Different students respond to different approaches.

I’m good at math. I’m a decent engineer. I’d be horrible as a teacher for so many reasons. I’m impatient. I’m not the best communicator. I want to solve the problems rather than teach others how to solve them. And so I sit in a cubicle in Sorrento Mesa rather than in front of a classroom. I picked the correct career path for me. My sister is a very good teacher… and I am a witness that she works as hard or harder than me.

I don’t begrudge teachers. There’s a lot more to it than you realize.[/quote]

UCGal,

That was an exceptionally good post. You are exactly right.

What makes a good teacher is NOT their expertise in a particular subject. It is their understanding of how students learn at various stages of development.

Teachers have to intuitively understand a student’s background, knowledge, learning style, and abilities, so that they can tailor their teaching to optimize the student’s understanding of the subject matter.

They also have to make the subject matter meaningful to the students, so that the students are motivated to learn and seek out information and gain understanding on their own.

In addition to all this, they need to have a decent grasp of the subject matter, and they have to convey the information while maintaining discipline and keeping 20-45 students on task (and challenged) at all times.

To those who say teachers should make $30K/year because their job is “too easy,” I challenge you to step up to the plate, and teach for a couple of years. Only after you’ve done it will you have earned the right to come back and tell us how overpaid and underworked teachers are.

[Coronita]

I’m still trying to understand this I can’t believe “XXX makes YYY dollars” pandemic that is going on.

Is this what the Obama outrage is suppose to be?

Yes, some teachers who probably suck get paid well.

Yes, some engineers who suck get paid well (don’t understand the comment about someone with 10years of experience getting paid $70k. There were a couple of fresh grads with nothing more than 1 year of experience and a masters that Q.C. just hired for $75k.)

Yes, police/fire/etc have nice pensions.

And yes, Goldman/Wall Street execs still get those golden parachutes despite all the hooopla Obama made about it.
Yes, public money was spend to bailout auto industry to unions can keep their benefits more/or/less.

Why don’t we just regulate everyone’s pay. What is the fascination of of someone else’s pay? Is there some sort of insecurity fever going around that some people are paid better than others?? I guess when all that funny money was going around, no one really cared what everyone else was making. But now that most people are miserable, well hell everyone should be too.

Hey, last time I checked drug dealers make a hell of a lot of money. So do good strippers, hookers, and jiggalos

Seems like now that we need to trip fat in making balancing the budget, folks like to point where the fat is which usually isn’t anything they do themselves. Nice….

[Coronita]

I’m still trying to understand this I can’t believe “XXX makes YYY dollars” pandemic that is going on.

Is this what the Obama outrage is suppose to be?

Yes, some teachers who probably suck get paid well.

Yes, some engineers who suck get paid well (don’t understand the comment about someone with 10years of experience getting paid $70k. There were a couple of fresh grads with nothing more than 1 year of experience and a masters that Q.C. just hired for $75k.)

Yes, police/fire/etc have nice pensions.

And yes, Goldman/Wall Street execs still get those golden parachutes despite all the hooopla Obama made about it.
Yes, public money was spend to bailout auto industry to unions can keep their benefits more/or/less.

Why don’t we just regulate everyone’s pay. What is the fascination of of someone else’s pay? Is there some sort of insecurity fever going around that some people are paid better than others?? I guess when all that funny money was going around, no one really cared what everyone else was making. But now that most people are miserable, well hell everyone should be too.

Hey, last time I checked drug dealers make a hell of a lot of money. So do good strippers, hookers, and jiggalos

Seems like now that we need to trip fat in making balancing the budget, folks like to point where the fat is which usually isn’t anything they do themselves. Nice….

[Coronita]

I’m still trying to understand this I can’t believe “XXX makes YYY dollars” pandemic that is going on.

Is this what the Obama outrage is suppose to be?

Yes, some teachers who probably suck get paid well.

Yes, some engineers who suck get paid well (don’t understand the comment about someone with 10years of experience getting paid $70k. There were a couple of fresh grads with nothing more than 1 year of experience and a masters that Q.C. just hired for $75k.)

Yes, police/fire/etc have nice pensions.

And yes, Goldman/Wall Street execs still get those golden parachutes despite all the hooopla Obama made about it.
Yes, public money was spend to bailout auto industry to unions can keep their benefits more/or/less.

Why don’t we just regulate everyone’s pay. What is the fascination of of someone else’s pay? Is there some sort of insecurity fever going around that some people are paid better than others?? I guess when all that funny money was going around, no one really cared what everyone else was making. But now that most people are miserable, well hell everyone should be too.

Hey, last time I checked drug dealers make a hell of a lot of money. So do good strippers, hookers, and jiggalos

Seems like now that we need to trip fat in making balancing the budget, folks like to point where the fat is which usually isn’t anything they do themselves. Nice….

[Coronita]

I’m still trying to understand this I can’t believe “XXX makes YYY dollars” pandemic that is going on.

Is this what the Obama outrage is suppose to be?

Yes, some teachers who probably suck get paid well.

Yes, some engineers who suck get paid well (don’t understand the comment about someone with 10years of experience getting paid $70k. There were a couple of fresh grads with nothing more than 1 year of experience and a masters that Q.C. just hired for $75k.)

Yes, police/fire/etc have nice pensions.

And yes, Goldman/Wall Street execs still get those golden parachutes despite all the hooopla Obama made about it.
Yes, public money was spend to bailout auto industry to unions can keep their benefits more/or/less.

Why don’t we just regulate everyone’s pay. What is the fascination of of someone else’s pay? Is there some sort of insecurity fever going around that some people are paid better than others?? I guess when all that funny money was going around, no one really cared what everyone else was making. But now that most people are miserable, well hell everyone should be too.

Hey, last time I checked drug dealers make a hell of a lot of money. So do good strippers, hookers, and jiggalos

Seems like now that we need to trip fat in making balancing the budget, folks like to point where the fat is which usually isn’t anything they do themselves. Nice….

[Coronita]

I’m still trying to understand this I can’t believe “XXX makes YYY dollars” pandemic that is going on.

Is this what the Obama outrage is suppose to be?

Yes, some teachers who probably suck get paid well.

Yes, some engineers who suck get paid well (don’t understand the comment about someone with 10years of experience getting paid $70k. There were a couple of fresh grads with nothing more than 1 year of experience and a masters that Q.C. just hired for $75k.)

Yes, police/fire/etc have nice pensions.

And yes, Goldman/Wall Street execs still get those golden parachutes despite all the hooopla Obama made about it.
Yes, public money was spend to bailout auto industry to unions can keep their benefits more/or/less.

Why don’t we just regulate everyone’s pay. What is the fascination of of someone else’s pay? Is there some sort of insecurity fever going around that some people are paid better than others?? I guess when all that funny money was going around, no one really cared what everyone else was making. But now that most people are miserable, well hell everyone should be too.

Hey, last time I checked drug dealers make a hell of a lot of money. So do good strippers, hookers, and jiggalos

Seems like now that we need to trip fat in making balancing the budget, folks like to point where the fat is which usually isn’t anything they do themselves. Nice….

[scaredyclassic]

Drug dealers on the whole don’t make much money. Read FREAKONOMICS on that important subject (the chapter entitled “Why do most drug dealers live with their mothers?”)

However, strippers do very very well.

Clearly we need to redistribute some of the strippers’, engineers’ or teachers’ money to the relatively impoverished drug dealers.

[scaredyclassic]

Drug dealers on the whole don’t make much money. Read FREAKONOMICS on that important subject (the chapter entitled “Why do most drug dealers live with their mothers?”)

However, strippers do very very well.

Clearly we need to redistribute some of the strippers’, engineers’ or teachers’ money to the relatively impoverished drug dealers.

[scaredyclassic]

Drug dealers on the whole don’t make much money. Read FREAKONOMICS on that important subject (the chapter entitled “Why do most drug dealers live with their mothers?”)

However, strippers do very very well.

Clearly we need to redistribute some of the strippers’, engineers’ or teachers’ money to the relatively impoverished drug dealers.

[scaredyclassic]

Drug dealers on the whole don’t make much money. Read FREAKONOMICS on that important subject (the chapter entitled “Why do most drug dealers live with their mothers?”)

However, strippers do very very well.

Clearly we need to redistribute some of the strippers’, engineers’ or teachers’ money to the relatively impoverished drug dealers.

[Author]

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