Real Estate Attorney Needed _Any Suggestions?

[Hobie]

JC: I suggest dropping the mediator and continue w small claims. Get large (8×10) pics showing contractor damaging pipe and practice your persuasive speech laying out your claim in ~5min. Bring in the higher estimate of a repair.

Draw a easy to read timeline of events for judge to see. Dates,times phone calls, letters: who said what and when.

Something to keep in mind is small claims courts tend to like to see actual cost receipts. ie. you pay for the fix and are suing for reimbursement.

I would wait until you have a judgement, and he does not pay, before contacting his CO.

You also need to prove $600 repair did nor fix problem. ie Statement from plumber or better yet, bring him into court.

[Coronita]

Thanks to this thread, I learned from you JC and made sure over the weekend to jump on a plumbing issue shared between my condo and the owner above me.

[quote]
Me: Hey dude, my tenant told me the kitchen drain is plugged, and thinks the drain empties to a common drain pipe shared between our unit and he thinks he saw your tenant moving out and emptying shit down the sink. I had to dispatch my plumber.

Owner Upstairs: (no response for a few hours)

Me: Hey dude again, my plumber says that the drain was clogged when he took part of the drain hose off that runs from your condo upstairs to mine below. He ended up needing to snake the drain 15 feet below and after a few hours was able to get it cleared. This is the 4th plumbing issue, could we split the bill. The bill is $135

Owner Upstairs: oh, thanks but no, it’s not my tenants fault.

Me: Well it’s a common drain, my tenant says they were moving out as you were preparing the condo for sale. I was being nice and offered to split the bill with you. It was $135 total, so your portion would be $67.50

Owner Upstairs: I don’t think it’s my tenants fault, so no.

Me: Well, ok that’s fine. If you would rather me take it up with your prospective buyer while they are in escrow, that’s fine. I don’t mind asking the would be new buyer if they plan on paying for the unsettled plumbing bill. By the way, this is the 4th plumbing issue I had with your unit in 2 years. I guess since we are talking about plumbing issues, you have plans to disclose of these issues to your new buyer, right? I don’t want to approach your buyer and be the messenger of all the plumbing issues you’ve had with your unit. The last thing I would hate would be what I need to say to your new buyer would potentially delay escrow or cause a transaction to fall out of escrow, as I’m sure I will check with your listing agent if all the plumbing issues that I’m aware of has been properly disclosed and ensure all potential buyers that I or my tenant ends up talking to were aware of the major 4 plumbing incidents that happened over the past 2 years.

(Considering this guy has a history of trying to get out of paying for water damage his unit does to mine and trying to doing the cheapest thing, I’m pretty sure he’s not going to disclose of the previous 3 plumbing issues that caused water damage to my unit)….

Owner Upstair: wow FLU, you would fuck up escrow over $67.50? Send me your plumber’s info so I can confirm
(Sent this morning at 545am since he’s over in Texas a remote owner)

Me: No, it’s not my intention to fuck up escrow over $67.50. But considering you are trying to sell the condo for $300k+, I thought you were being penny wise, pound foolish for giving me a hard time over something that was $135 split by 2…especially considering the history of plumbing issues we’ve had from the 2nd floor…again…Check your text again. I tried to reason with you about splitting the bill. You said no, it wasn’t your problem, you don’t give a shit. I think if you were in my situation, you would have asked your property manager what to do, and your property manager would have said told you to do the same thing. Go after the amount from the new prospective buyer. And if it “fucks up” escrow, it’s not your problem, the same way that when a common drain issue occurs, how he thinks its “not his problem”

I dont know, I were in your situation, when the irate owner of the unit below you is contacting you out of the blue for yet another plumbing issue (the 4th one) and hasn’t contacted you for a long time for anything other than a real issue, I probably would have said “oh, a common plumbing issue… ok, would you mind sending me your plumber so I can confirm, and if this is really a shared drain line, yes I would be happy to split the cost of the work your plumber did to clear both our drains…because I wouldn’t want the drain to be plugged impacting your current tenant that is still living there and my potential new buyer while they are doing a home inspection since it’s the same common drain…. And since it’s $135, half of that isn’t a big deal…”… But this is the 4th plumbing issue. And once again, rather that trying to hear what I was trying to rationalizing explain to you, you basically blew me off again and said, “not my problem”..So I was prepared to get my property manager to reach out to your listing agent to ensure that the message got through to you, and to ensure you were properly disclosing a 4 major plumbing issues you’ve had in the past that affected my unit and caused some damage and that there was an unsettled plumbing bill outstanding.

Owner Upstairs: I think you had a misunderstanding of what I said.

Me: If it’s a misunderstanding, you have nothing to worry about then… I’ll send you a scan bill after it’s 8am here. My plumber isn’t up yet anyway since it’s 541am here still.

[/quote]

As the saying goes. For some people, you give them an inch, they’ll try to take a mile. I don’t even give people an inch, when they have a history of being an unreasonable cheap ass. It’s not the $67.50 that really matters, it’s the principle and history of dealing with this guy. He and his insurance didn’t want to pay for a $7000 water claim. I ended up trying to sue him and his insurance for $25k for loss of wages loss of earnings, trip charges etc. We settled for $15k from his insurance. You would think after that, and a two other plumbing issues he tried to get out of also, that on the 4th one that happened right now during escrow, he would just say how much and what happened and cut the check no questions asked… Go figure.

Thank you JC for sharing your unfortunate experience. I learned a lot from reading this thread, and I’ve learned to be a big asshole if there’s an issue over a shared plumbing, especially if the other party(ies) consistently try to ignore the shared responsibility portion.

[ltsddd]

[quote=Hobie]JC: I suggest dropping the mediator and continue w small claims. Get large (8×10) pics showing contractor damaging pipe and practice your persuasive speech laying out your claim in ~5min. Bring in the higher estimate of a repair.

Draw a easy to read timeline of events for judge to see. Dates,times phone calls, letters: who said what and when.

Something to keep in mind is small claims courts tend to like to see actual cost receipts. ie. you pay for the fix and are suing for reimbursement.

I would wait until you have a judgement, and he does not pay, before contacting his CO.

You also need to prove $600 repair did nor fix problem. ie Statement from plumber or better yet, bring him into court.[/quote]

One suggestion, if you haven’t done so already, is to put all offenders as defendants in your filing. The neighbor, the neighbor’s contractors, etc. If they play the blaming game then they could do that in front of the judge. Also, it’s interesting to see how game theory (prisoner’s dilemna) works in real life.

And I agree with others about keeping it really simple for the court. This is what happened, he hired that contractor, the contractor did that and damaged this. Here’s the cost to remedy the problem – and let the neighbor and his contractor sort it out as who’s responsible.

[JC]

As always, thank you for the helpful insights. And, I am so glad I was able to help someone else, but I am really sad that others have experienced similar issues!

I have a new development which could be good news. I learned from a neighbor who sympathizes with my situation that the owner, a military member, has received new orders and will be selling almost immediately.

I believe I need to find a way to be sure that the listing agent is aware as I do believe they will attempt to not disclose. (Simply basing this on the number of lies they have told me and others).

I have notified the mediator to solicit his input and reaching out to others to see what can be done to resolve all of this fairly for me, them and the new owners. I backed up again this week, so pretty sure the supposed fix was not an actual fix.

I am so grateful they are leaving. They are the real reason I wanted to sell my house last year. I hope I never make a neighbor feel that way.

Thanks again,
JC

[JC]

Here is info on disclosures required in CA in case anyone needs this: https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/residential-home-sellers-california-your-disclosure-obligations.html

[Hobie]

JC: Seriously, you must hire a lawyer and file an action immediately. This will cloud the title and force disclosure. Small claims will not.

[JC]

Hobie, Thank you. I am in this situation because I should have listened to you and others when I was advised to sue at the first sign of super shady behavior. I’ve just never sued someone before and it seemed like such an aggressive act.

Given where I am at now — I filed a small claims case in Dec which has been pushed out indefinitely b/c the neighbor pushed and then Covid hit. I did do the next best thing as soon as I could — mediator.

The neighbor never actually committed to anything with the mediator which I was routinely but politely pointing out to him. (The mediator was making a very good effort for me, so this was not his fault, this neighbor is just very shady).

I looked into Liens last night, but you have to have a judgment to file one. Even if I filed a non small claims lawsuit on Monday, there is no way it would get heard before the sale of this property.

So, I am mostly a cautionary tale..

I have alerted the mediator and we will talk tomorrow. I also let go of all pride and posted several HIGHLY visible signs on my property so there is no way the listing agent could avoid seeing them. And, many kind neighbors are keeping an eye out for me at this point as the behavior of my shady neighbor is highly unusual for our area.

I do not want to do this, but I can make any showings very difficult for them. I’m a fairly peaceful person, so I am hoping my embarrassing signs prompt a visit from the realtor and he or she puts some added pressure on them. I suppose I could also post out this on Nextdoor too, but that seems icky and not sure the right audience would see.

[scaredyclassic]

Lawsuits are only as aggressive as u like.

[Hobie]

JC: I get your character and personality and I’m sure you are very sweet. But… you are in a tight spot right now.

IMO you have a case against your neighbor. If you win, you will recover atty fees in addition to the repair costs.

Please speak with a real estate atty who has litigation experience ( not transactional- ie drafting contracts ) This consult is free. He/she will advise if it is worth pursuing at this point or you simply have to bit the bullet and pay for repair yourself.

You have one shot at collecting against neighbor — when the house sells. You must prevent the sale by filing a lawsuit in Superior Court and gain an injunction to cloud title and stop the sale.

Guy is very motivated to sell as he will be shipping out soon so you have to act quickly.

Please, skip the mediator. They are simply running out the clock until the guy leaves. At that point, you are SOL.

Even if you ‘win’ in small claims or mediate some deal, trying to collect from someone that is moving away will be a literal nightmare for you and probably will result in nothing collected.

Again, I get you are a nice person but signage and pinging a realtor won’t be effective. Call atty tomorrow and get advice and let them do the heavy lifting. It is time to stand up and be strong. You can do this!

[JC]

For anyone following this thread, you probably already know this, but definitely follow Hobie’s advice and not what I have done.

My latest update will having you saying “I told you so”, but let me first share some new info I have on the original topic. How to alert buyers of existing issues — there are a few folks that will care without having the lien to cloud title. The buyers agent, the sellers agent, the buyer, the appraiser and the estimator. The challenge can be getting to them before the sale, but that is who will care. And, even though small claims minus a judgment will not cause any title issues, it can be an issue if that defendant tries to refinance or buy a new property. (Well, if they tell the truth about the suit or lie and get caught).

Ok, on to the cringeworthy update. My neighbor was at home last week, so I asked him over our shared fence if he could address the broken sewer. Same language as my notes — please and thank yous. The first night he responded with great frustration stating that his attorneys were handling the resolution of our issue and that I should have known that if I had been checking my email. I asked for more detail as I certainly had not received any communication like that and it seemed pretty surprising to me that this would be their role. He stormed off without giving me more info, so I wrote to his attorneys and described their client’s idea of their role and asked for them to clarify their roles. Not surprisingly, what my neighbor had shared was in conflict with their understanding. Two nights later, I noticed the neighbor was in his backyard again, so I asked if I could get some more info on his understanding of how his attorneys were going to resolve our issue for him. (I know this seems far fetched but he has communicated so little I thought perhaps he truly did completely misunderstand their role). He was uncooperative and started taking photos of me, so I did alert him that I would use video and then filmed our convo after that which was him telling me he did not want to talk to me over the the fence and me telling him I did not really want to either and to please tell me how and when would be convenient to meet to get this resolved. At this point, he mostly just started loudly whistling back at me.

The next day, I did write to his commanding officer as military neighbors have been suggesting that I do that for about a year.

I got a response from the commanding officer on Monday suggesting that he had been spoken with. I waited a few days to allow my neighbor to reach out to me. When he did not, I send him a message via the mediator to be sure he received it.

Tonight, I received what I would call a fraudulent or highly inaccurate TRO as parts of it seem to rise to the level of perjury. (Other parts of it are simply copies of my please and thank you notes which I would not dispute. I have sent a lot of please and thank you notes because I haven’t had a fully functional sewer line since early 2019). I should mention that the TRO was from a 3rd attorney presumably because his 1st and 2nd attorneys have probably caught on to his behavior.

I am fascinated that the cost of the latest communication is close to half the price of the fix of the sewer line and that he probably would not have had to pay for any of that fix if he had just promptly contacted his contractor and his insurance. And, that he would risk his career by lying like this. I get that it will be hard to prove his lying, but why take the risk?

[Hobie]

You said you received a TRO from a 3rd atty. How was it delivered? In-person or mailed? Restraining orders are issued by the court. Can you please verify what you received was a court document.

If it was indeed a court issued RO, please heed the language on the document. Likely, any further personal interaction with neighbor will land you in an expensive legal defense.

That said, the TRO has no effect on your plumbing case if you choose to proceed. It is merely meant to intimidate you.

I’m not sure if you can get a property lien in a small claims decision.

You need an atty to help you present your case to include attaching a judgement to the title. I think a non-functioning sewer would qualify as a health and safety issue. Your atty may suggest to involve code enforcement for this reason.

Property liens are easily discovered in a Title Search (by title insurance company)when a new buyer starts escrow.

A judgement against the individual will not alert any potential buyers and will be very difficult to collect once he moves away.

[JC]

Hobie,

Thank you. You are correct again. It was simply to intimidate me as were the other ridiculous letters from other attorneys. However, this was court issued and the reading I did last night tracks with what you are saying. I have to be very careful.

The neighborhood gossip mill has recently updated me that this guy is not moving now.

It looks like I need to file my own dispute of this ridiculous TRO and in a speedy way. I have to work today, so I guess this is my weekend project. I’ve kept a pretty detailed timeline, so it won’t be that hard. I’m just frustrated that this could have been solved quickly and easily in early 2019, but he always throws up some way where I can’t communicate with him and then uses that as his excuse for not taking action.

I just can’t imagine doing this to another neighbor. Even after the encroachment and refusing to take action after the first back up, I still went out and did all of the research for them, found the best quote that just focused on the damage they did to the line and helped them find ways to get it paid for. Ugh. Ugh. Ugh.

The line works to the extent that it can be used VERY minimally — short showers and such. No major water use.

Guessing I will finally be taking everyone’s advice and hiring an attorney.

For the amount we will both wind up paying attorneys we probably could have put in a brand new line and increased the value of both of our properties.

[JC]

Hobie, BTW, you mentioned in an earlier post that I could “bite the bullet” and pay for the repair myself. It’s not a bad idea, but he has not “allowed” me to make the repairs even when the line was fully blocked. The clean out is on his property and right in front of his house. There is an easement but not well defined, so he should not block me, BUT he has lied to me, the mediator, service providers, a judge, his second set of attorneys, etc., so I’m super nervous about pursuing this. (E.g. He would try to say I did something I did not do even with tons of proof to the contrary). I think your point would be “get a goddamn attorney and get this figured out” and I guess that is what I will have to do. 🙂
Jen

[o2addict]

Sorry about your issue, neighbor disputes are the worst. Just brainstorming here:

Do you have all the info regarding easements between the 2 properties? Any easement that allows each other necessary access to repair/maintain things like shared sewer lines? Utility easements granted to the utility companies won’t help.

Even if there isn’t one in writing, you can make a reasonable argument that one exists since actions taken on his property have caused damage to your property, via the sewer line. Since he refuses to take action, it’s necessary or implied that you may take reasonable steps on his property to protect yours.
It appears he feels he has an easement to your property to perform work that benefits his.

Lis Pendens (Notice of Pendency of Action) are a cloud on Title. No Court permission is needed to file one against his property. Nearly impossible to sell a house with that. Financing would be problematic.

But I think you should at least talk to an attorney about it. I’m not sure if a Plaintiff can file a motion to have the Small Claims case transferred to the main Superior Court, but it’s worth a shot. And I believe you can always file an Amended Complaint in the higher jurisdiction, with the easement claim which will satisfy the property rights claim needed to support a Lis Pendens.

There can be risks with that approach. But if this is as big an issue as it appears, it could be worth it. If nothing else, the military member with new orders will need to hire a lawyer and start the litigation process. In the meantime his house won’t sell as long as the Lis Pendens is filed. And I’m assuming the current state of how rapidly Court hearings are set is not that swift.

You have all the leverage. Assuming he hires a common sense attorney that lets him know life is too short and it’s in his financial best interest to agree with your terms and save himself a pile of money and headache. Or he hires one that milks him for all he can during these uncertain times.

In other words, you should’ve taken Hobies advice.

Edit: Just saw your update. Him having his transfer orders cancelled is odd timing. Hopefully you don’t get blamed for that.

[JC]

O2addict, Thank you. I think I am just going to start every post with “Hobie was right” or “should have listened to Hobie”. 🙂

Seriously, I hope this thread helps others if just to learn from my mistakes.

An easement exists. There is not a lot of detail to it. I spent a lot of time looking at old records to check. I had proposed to the neighbor that we make it clearer (would potentially help both of us with resale). He refused. He also would “not allow” work without his ok. I am pretty sure he can’t do that BUT when I have done something as simple as requesting information from him, he has immediately had attorneys threatening me. So, I can only imagine what he would do if I had a plumber roll up to do some work.

Lis Pendens is a great idea, but I don’t believe it applies here. You have to have a suit involving either the title to the property or a claimed ownership interest in it. I have neither.

If I had filed a proper lawsuit at the time of the first extremely bad behavior, I would have had a chance of having a judgment by now which I would need for a lien. To be a little fair to me, my neighbor pushing out the suit and Covid definitely did not help my situation. Well, that and I never anticipated anyone lying this much when it hurts them financially to do so. I thought most people would be more logical about a major investment.

I do not believe this neighbor’s orders changed. I believe if he has decided not to sell that he will rent. This is second hand info, so no idea if this is true. And, I am really not tracking their actions very carefully as it is mostly none of my business. I only ran into the neighbor last week as I was out with my dogs when he was out in his yard. And, as he has pretty much refused to communicate in any productive way, I figured I would try that.

I think right now all I can do is 1) fight this ridiculous TRO 2) get a good attorney.

JC

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