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April 14, 2006 at 5:33 PM #6492April 15, 2006 at 7:41 AM #24243powaysellerParticipant
USA Today has a story about effect of adjustable rate mortgages across middle America. There are many more articles like this…Let’s all be aware that the ARM and subprime lending problems are nationwide.
For 45 years, Robert and Lorraine Brown have lived in their ranch-style home in Florissant, Mo. When they refinanced their home two years ago to pay off some bills, Robert, now 78, was working as a deliveryman. But his employer went out of business last April. Now he and Lorraine, 72, a retired nurse, are both seeking work. The rate on their mortgage has jumped from 7% to 10.5%.
Already, in West Virginia, Alabama, Michigan, Missouri and Tennessee, about one in five homeowners with a high-interest (subprime) ARM was at least 30 days late at the end of last year, according to the Mortgage Bankers Association. After 90 days, the foreclosure clock starts ticking. Most of those foreclosures are related to job losses in auto and garment factories; higher mortgage payments were often the last straw.
In the Atlanta area, credit counselors for The Impact Group say 85% of their calls are now related to ARM or interest-only loans.
In Liburn, GA, Susan Cambero is going to lose her house. She got into trouble after she took out an equity line of credit on her home to pay off her car and other bills.
“Within the last year, I would say 60% to 70% of calls to our hotlines are issues related to ARM (adjustable-rate mortgage) loans,” says Chris Krehmeyer, executive director of Beyond Housing, a non-profit group that offers homeownership support services in St. Louis. “That’s significantly higher than in years past, because the ARMs are coming home to roost.”
April 15, 2006 at 8:50 AM #24245North County JimParticipantBefore we get going with any kind of dialogue, you should reread my previous posts and the conclusions you are drawing from them.
1. Nowhere do I state that the unwinding of the RE bubble will not cause a recession. I stated clearly that the unwinding would cause residual damage to the overall economy.
2. While I believe the bubble is confined to selected markets, nowhere did I aver that the fallout would be limited geographically. Again, I thought I made it clear there would be damage to the overall economy.
3. I also clearly did not state or imply that the S&L crisis or telecom/tech crash did not lead to recession. The tech crash clearly did cause a mild recession while the S&L crisis was a factor in the recession of the early 90’s.
From my perspective, our differences regarding the fallout from the popping of the RE bubble are a matter of degree. I believe it will be very ugly and painful for many. The probability of a recession will increase as lenders and overleveraged consumers repair their balance sheets.
If I’m reading you correctly, you’re expecting a lot worse than that. I just can’t bring myself to be that pessimistic.
April 15, 2006 at 9:24 AM #24247powaysellerParticipantThe Wall Street Journal (4/14/06) story writes the highest regional rates of foreclosures are in the entire “East North Central” region of the country, which includes Indiana, Ohio, Michigan, Illinois and Wisconsin.
And what the states hit hardest by mortgage foreclosures have in common is relatively low home-price appreciation (compared with the national average) over the past few years, typically combined with below-trend job growth.
North County Jim, I had wanted to post this topic for a while, so our dialogue the other day was my inspiration. Only time will tell how bad this recession will be. I could be way off base…
April 15, 2006 at 11:08 AM #24248powaysellerParticipantAnother cause of foreclosures is job loss. The WSJ reports on tony Bloomfield Hills. Oakland County, where Bloomfield Hills is located, is the nation’s fourth-wealthiest county with a population of more than one million, according to the latest per capita income data from the Commerce Department. In Oakland County, 723 homes are in foreclosure, more than double the 334 in February 2004. Michigan now has twice as many homes in foreclosure as it did in February 2004, and the state’s current foreclosure rate is about two-and-a-half times as high as the national average.
Across Bloomfield Hills, residents are changing their lifestyles in ways large and small. The 325-member Forest Lake Country Club says it has a 20-person waiting list to get out of the club. (Last year, there were just four people on this list.) In order to get back a portion of their equity in the club, these members have to pay $540 a month in dues until new blood can be found to take their slots. To lure new members, the club has cut its initiation fee to $15,000 from $45,000. At Erhard BMW in Bloomfield Hills, sales are down 10% to 15% from last year. Stanford Krandall, who lives in Bloomfield Hills, is closing his family’s jewelry business, located nearby. Founded by his great-grandfather in 1911, Sidney Krandall & Sons catered to some of the area’s richest residents. But sales were down more than 25% since 2003.
Anna DiMaria, 65, ran beauty businesses in the area for nearly four decades. But last summer, she closed down her once-thriving Capelli Spa because she says at least 30% of her wealthy client base had cut back on visits or stopped coming. “Instead of getting facials every month, they’d get them every three months,” she says. “They’d say, ‘My husband and I have talked it over. We’re taking a cut in our luxuries.’ ”
Some clients were getting their false nails taken off to save the $70 monthly maintenance fee, says Ms. DiMaria. “They’d tell me, ‘I want to let my nails breath.’ They didn’t want to reveal it was an economic decision.”
In nearby West Bloomfield, Angelo’s Bistro lowered its prices almost 30% in January, and took away the tablecloths and upper-end menu items, such as pasta with lobster. It changed its name to Angelo’s Greek Restaurant. (Customers could afford the cheaper greek food.)
The ear-nose-throat physician expects his patient load to fall 10% in the year ahead, as patients skip appointments to cut down on health-care costs. Dr. Succar has been reevaluating his own finances. “I’m definitely cutting expenses,” he says. “We’re working on a budget now. We’re worrying about the future and what’s coming.”
April 20, 2006 at 2:53 PM #24421powaysellerParticipantI just read the links for today. It turns out that Denver and Austin had high rates of exotic loans as well, and are facing record foreclosures.
This link says (Origination news, bottom)that Georgia and Florida banks are up to 100% – 500% of capital invested in commercial real estate.
Does anyone still think this thing will only hit CA?
April 20, 2006 at 5:58 PM #24425powaysellerParticipantInclude Oklahoma in the list of “foreclosure states”.
Heck, is any state immune from rising foreclosures due to exotic lending programs? It seems we Americans, regardless of state, have bought houses with nothing down, and financed it all. Most of us who purhcased a home in the last few years are on the verge of losing our homes.
April 20, 2006 at 7:35 PM #24426Jim BrubakerParticipantI would argue that this “will be the first national housingcrash”/debacle, it will be the second. I studied the 1929 depression and it happened there first. Everybody then had an interest only 5 year loan.
When I first studied the depression, I wondered why all of the loans were for 5 years, renewable and most were interest only.
When the depression went full force, there was no money left to renew the loan obligation. If you delve further, states declared house foreclosure moratoriums.
I think what you are saying, although inadvertently, is that there is no one around that remembers the last time that this happened. Therefore we are destined to repeat the past.
April 20, 2006 at 7:39 PM #24427powaysellerParticipantI haven’t studied the depression. I do believe we are set up to go into a recession, and I want to position my portfolio so that it doesn’t wipe out my assets. Selling my house was the first step.
I wish that some others would add to this topic. Does anyone else agree? Disagree? Why? How are you positioning your investments at this time?
April 20, 2006 at 8:16 PM #24428Jim BrubakerParticipantHere is what happened in the 1930’s. It became against the law to own gold. Everyone had to turn it in. As I’ve said before, you cannot print gold and silver, there is only a finite amount. Governments will keep on printing money. I always recommend 10% in gold and 10% in highly speculative stocks and/or real estate in a portfolio. Thats not hard to do.
The problem occurs with Mutual Funds, Retirement Funds and Ira’s and 401K’s. Here is where you will see the most shrinkage of your assets. The Managers of these funds have the same mindset as real estate agents–the market always goes up.
I would like to point out to you that there aren’t many money managers that have ever seen a bear market.
How about next to none.Are these funds federal insured, absolutely not. They are SPCIC insured (a private insurance company)
They have no reason to be conservative, low producers get dropped, therefor max to the hilt on the market going up. Everyone of the 31,000 mutual funds is doing it. Does it sound like there is anything wrong here?
I think that most of the retirement plans, 401k’s and Ira’s are sitting ducks. Most us baby boomer’s are going to “take it in the shorts.”
April 20, 2006 at 8:32 PM #24429picpouleParticipantIt seems to have already hit Colorado, and we did not experience a bubble. Today Colorado has the top rate of foreclosurese in the country. As I have said in one of my other posts here, the high foreclosure rate did not follow bubble-like appreciation, but rather was due to heavy job losses and a recession we never really recovered from. The link you cite adds to the blame other factors such as more home construction beyond existing demand, ARMS, IOs and unlicensed mortgage brokers. It’s here. Next come the falling home prices as sellers find they have to compete with all the foreclosures on the market. What’s responsible for the high foreclosure rate here is not what is in play in CA.
April 20, 2006 at 8:53 PM #24432powaysellerParticipantDo you think it would be better for CO homeowners without exotic lending?
While Michigan also is reeling from job losses, it’s interesting that increasing foreclosures are hitting the nation all at once.
It’s going to get really bad next year. This year is just the warmup for the big stuff next year. We have 3x as many ARMs resetting next year, and whenever I read the figures on the ARM resets, I have never read that the problem was confined to CA and FL. It always says, “Nationwide, $1 trillion in ARMs is resetting in 2007”. Emphasis on nationwide.
How are retailers faring in CO? Have you seen any impact on the local economy?
April 20, 2006 at 10:00 PM #24436North County JimParticipantMost of us who purhcased a home in the last few years are on the verge of losing our homes.
This is the pessimism I alluded to earlier. Most is a pretty strong word in this context.
My guess would be that the percentage of those who lose their homes will be several standard deviations above the historical norm. Based on historical foreclosure rates, how many standard deviations would it take for most of the recent home buyers to lose their homes? Hundreds?
April 20, 2006 at 10:28 PM #24437AnonymousGuestFWIW, I’ve had the opportunity to chat with my 97 year old grandmother who vividly remembers the housing market from that time period. She refers to the IO loans as “Balloon mortgages” and the idea behind them was that the borrower would supposedly be able to save the money necessary to pay off the balloon payment at the end of the loan period. Not that she thought this was a great idea. She watched the good times turn to job losses, cascading defaults and foreclosures in Los Angeles as a newlywed.
When I explained the exotic financing currently being used in the RE market that is enabling people to stretch their finances into houses they really can’t afford, she was absolutely stunned. She couldn’t believe that people could be even more foolish all over again.
Too right, Grandma.
April 20, 2006 at 11:23 PM #24438NotARocketScientistParticipantIf I thought we were headed toward a full-on depression, I’d be inclined to pull enough money out of savings to pay off my mortgage so I was “free and clear” as my parents used to say.
Their parents learned the hard way when their savings were wiped out in the bank crash of ’29. Paper that could be used to buy tangible assets one day lost all value the next.
In that scenario you’d be better off pulling $250,000 in savings out of the bank today to pay off a house that was going to drop in value to $25,000 tomorrow if you knew the savings were going to be wiped out too. Value is relative. And Jim would probably tell you to buy a little gold. Not to make money, but to cover your taxes for a while until things blew over. At least you’d have a place to live.
I’m not saying we’re headed for a depression, but as long as we’re playing out various doomsday scenarios, I thought I’d throw in my 2 cents.
Other thoughts?
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