House crams healthcare bill down the countries throat.

[ucodegen]

Where did you get the 13 RN number again? RN makes ~$35/hr right now.

I took the yearly salary of $80k.. but here it is:
$90,000 = 1 month at 3000/day
$3,500 = nursing home equivalent
$80,000 = RN salary (35/hour comes to about $65k/yr)
($90,000 – $3,500)/($80,000/12) = 12.975
I used a higher RN salary to compensate for benis etc. I was not dividing it into shifts (3).. which would bring 4.325 nurses attending to one and only one patient.

Right off, you have a problem with your figures when applied to 1 RN handling 4 patients. You forgot that you have to divide your $35k-$40k/month by 4 because 1 RN serves 4 patients. This comes to $8,750 – $10,000 burdened per month or $292 to $333 per day in nursing costs. This is way below the charged $3000/day for the room.

If you have 13 dedicated nurse per patient, you’re looking at nursing cost of $105k/month.

I had $90,000 but the difference between the $105k and $90k is insignificant compared to how much it is higher than actual nursing costs. You don’t have 13 nurses dedicated to one patient.. you have 1 RN + a few CNA/LVNs dedicated to 4 patients (Scripps example)

[dbapig]

[quote=commercialappraiser]I am 53 and self employed. I am very healthy and only carry catastrophic health insurance. My Aetna plan offered a “free” physical at 50. At that time I had not seen a doctor in almost a decade so I found one on the approved list and took advantage of the “free” service. All went well. The doc told me I was in perfect health.

The trouble started a month later when I got a bill in the mail, then another and then another. All for different amounts and each very cryptic. I called Aetna (they refuse to answer e-mails) and got put on hold and transferred around and disconnected and was generally treated rudely. The first bill we were finally able to figure out. During the physical the doctor had frozen off a small spot on my arm he thought may have been skin cancer and charged me $70. It took him two minutes and he did not order a biopsy. Aetna said this was part of my deductible so I ended up paying that bill directly to the doctor. No problem so far.

The other bills were for “non routine” lab work associated with the “free” physical. I was told (after more phone transfers and waiting) to talk to the lab or my doctor for an explanation. I called the doctor’s office (hold, transfer, wait, we’ll call you back) and by the end of what seemed like a long day, they reconfirmed that my diagnosis was routine. The next day I called the lab and, surprisingly, quickly got to someone who told me my blood test indicated anemia.

Well it would take more space than I have here to detail what followed. Basically months of getting the run around while the bills for lab work kept piling up with late charges added. At no point could I get the three entities (Aetna, lab and doctor) to get together on a conference call and figure this out. Meanwhile I am wondering if I do have anemia. My doctor says no but the lab says yes.

I finally filed a formal grievance with Aetna. After a month or so their investigator’s finding was that I was diagnosed as anemic and that lab charge was not covered by the “free” physical. It was not until I went through a state (California) agency that investigates insurance abuse that I was able to get Aetna to relent and stop the flow of bills. To this day I do not know if that investigator ever spoke with my doctor.

We hear of the large percentage of our health costs being due to various entities arguing over who pays what. I can tell you from experience it is true. Add to that the opportunity cost of the numerous hours I spent on this fiasco

I am healthy and have the flexibility to arrange my work schedule around being available during the hours the various offices involved are open. What about someone who is weakened by cancer and gets piled on by ineptitude like I did? What about the person working in a sweatshop who buys their own coverage but does not have time during the day to conduct personal business over the phone?

Canada, much of Europe and Australia have shown there is a lot of merit and cost savings to a single payer system. After my experience I am all for it.[/quote]

THANK YOU for your post. USA is the ONLY country among G8 plus South Korea that doesn’t offer some kind of public (govt operation or govt funding) health care. Why? Are those countries socialist countries?

BTW, this article on NYTimes didn’t get much talk but check it out.

excerpt
Since 1974, Hawaii has required all employers to provide relatively generous health care benefits to any employee who works 20 hours a week or more. If health care legislation passes in Congress, the rest of the country may barely catch up.

[dbapig]

[quote=commercialappraiser]I am 53 and self employed. I am very healthy and only carry catastrophic health insurance. My Aetna plan offered a “free” physical at 50. At that time I had not seen a doctor in almost a decade so I found one on the approved list and took advantage of the “free” service. All went well. The doc told me I was in perfect health.

The trouble started a month later when I got a bill in the mail, then another and then another. All for different amounts and each very cryptic. I called Aetna (they refuse to answer e-mails) and got put on hold and transferred around and disconnected and was generally treated rudely. The first bill we were finally able to figure out. During the physical the doctor had frozen off a small spot on my arm he thought may have been skin cancer and charged me $70. It took him two minutes and he did not order a biopsy. Aetna said this was part of my deductible so I ended up paying that bill directly to the doctor. No problem so far.

The other bills were for “non routine” lab work associated with the “free” physical. I was told (after more phone transfers and waiting) to talk to the lab or my doctor for an explanation. I called the doctor’s office (hold, transfer, wait, we’ll call you back) and by the end of what seemed like a long day, they reconfirmed that my diagnosis was routine. The next day I called the lab and, surprisingly, quickly got to someone who told me my blood test indicated anemia.

Well it would take more space than I have here to detail what followed. Basically months of getting the run around while the bills for lab work kept piling up with late charges added. At no point could I get the three entities (Aetna, lab and doctor) to get together on a conference call and figure this out. Meanwhile I am wondering if I do have anemia. My doctor says no but the lab says yes.

I finally filed a formal grievance with Aetna. After a month or so their investigator’s finding was that I was diagnosed as anemic and that lab charge was not covered by the “free” physical. It was not until I went through a state (California) agency that investigates insurance abuse that I was able to get Aetna to relent and stop the flow of bills. To this day I do not know if that investigator ever spoke with my doctor.

We hear of the large percentage of our health costs being due to various entities arguing over who pays what. I can tell you from experience it is true. Add to that the opportunity cost of the numerous hours I spent on this fiasco

I am healthy and have the flexibility to arrange my work schedule around being available during the hours the various offices involved are open. What about someone who is weakened by cancer and gets piled on by ineptitude like I did? What about the person working in a sweatshop who buys their own coverage but does not have time during the day to conduct personal business over the phone?

Canada, much of Europe and Australia have shown there is a lot of merit and cost savings to a single payer system. After my experience I am all for it.[/quote]

THANK YOU for your post. USA is the ONLY country among G8 plus South Korea that doesn’t offer some kind of public (govt operation or govt funding) health care. Why? Are those countries socialist countries?

BTW, this article on NYTimes didn’t get much talk but check it out.

excerpt
Since 1974, Hawaii has required all employers to provide relatively generous health care benefits to any employee who works 20 hours a week or more. If health care legislation passes in Congress, the rest of the country may barely catch up.

[dbapig]

[quote=commercialappraiser]I am 53 and self employed. I am very healthy and only carry catastrophic health insurance. My Aetna plan offered a “free” physical at 50. At that time I had not seen a doctor in almost a decade so I found one on the approved list and took advantage of the “free” service. All went well. The doc told me I was in perfect health.

The trouble started a month later when I got a bill in the mail, then another and then another. All for different amounts and each very cryptic. I called Aetna (they refuse to answer e-mails) and got put on hold and transferred around and disconnected and was generally treated rudely. The first bill we were finally able to figure out. During the physical the doctor had frozen off a small spot on my arm he thought may have been skin cancer and charged me $70. It took him two minutes and he did not order a biopsy. Aetna said this was part of my deductible so I ended up paying that bill directly to the doctor. No problem so far.

The other bills were for “non routine” lab work associated with the “free” physical. I was told (after more phone transfers and waiting) to talk to the lab or my doctor for an explanation. I called the doctor’s office (hold, transfer, wait, we’ll call you back) and by the end of what seemed like a long day, they reconfirmed that my diagnosis was routine. The next day I called the lab and, surprisingly, quickly got to someone who told me my blood test indicated anemia.

Well it would take more space than I have here to detail what followed. Basically months of getting the run around while the bills for lab work kept piling up with late charges added. At no point could I get the three entities (Aetna, lab and doctor) to get together on a conference call and figure this out. Meanwhile I am wondering if I do have anemia. My doctor says no but the lab says yes.

I finally filed a formal grievance with Aetna. After a month or so their investigator’s finding was that I was diagnosed as anemic and that lab charge was not covered by the “free” physical. It was not until I went through a state (California) agency that investigates insurance abuse that I was able to get Aetna to relent and stop the flow of bills. To this day I do not know if that investigator ever spoke with my doctor.

We hear of the large percentage of our health costs being due to various entities arguing over who pays what. I can tell you from experience it is true. Add to that the opportunity cost of the numerous hours I spent on this fiasco

I am healthy and have the flexibility to arrange my work schedule around being available during the hours the various offices involved are open. What about someone who is weakened by cancer and gets piled on by ineptitude like I did? What about the person working in a sweatshop who buys their own coverage but does not have time during the day to conduct personal business over the phone?

Canada, much of Europe and Australia have shown there is a lot of merit and cost savings to a single payer system. After my experience I am all for it.[/quote]

THANK YOU for your post. USA is the ONLY country among G8 plus South Korea that doesn’t offer some kind of public (govt operation or govt funding) health care. Why? Are those countries socialist countries?

BTW, this article on NYTimes didn’t get much talk but check it out.

excerpt
Since 1974, Hawaii has required all employers to provide relatively generous health care benefits to any employee who works 20 hours a week or more. If health care legislation passes in Congress, the rest of the country may barely catch up.

[dbapig]

[quote=commercialappraiser]I am 53 and self employed. I am very healthy and only carry catastrophic health insurance. My Aetna plan offered a “free” physical at 50. At that time I had not seen a doctor in almost a decade so I found one on the approved list and took advantage of the “free” service. All went well. The doc told me I was in perfect health.

The trouble started a month later when I got a bill in the mail, then another and then another. All for different amounts and each very cryptic. I called Aetna (they refuse to answer e-mails) and got put on hold and transferred around and disconnected and was generally treated rudely. The first bill we were finally able to figure out. During the physical the doctor had frozen off a small spot on my arm he thought may have been skin cancer and charged me $70. It took him two minutes and he did not order a biopsy. Aetna said this was part of my deductible so I ended up paying that bill directly to the doctor. No problem so far.

The other bills were for “non routine” lab work associated with the “free” physical. I was told (after more phone transfers and waiting) to talk to the lab or my doctor for an explanation. I called the doctor’s office (hold, transfer, wait, we’ll call you back) and by the end of what seemed like a long day, they reconfirmed that my diagnosis was routine. The next day I called the lab and, surprisingly, quickly got to someone who told me my blood test indicated anemia.

Well it would take more space than I have here to detail what followed. Basically months of getting the run around while the bills for lab work kept piling up with late charges added. At no point could I get the three entities (Aetna, lab and doctor) to get together on a conference call and figure this out. Meanwhile I am wondering if I do have anemia. My doctor says no but the lab says yes.

I finally filed a formal grievance with Aetna. After a month or so their investigator’s finding was that I was diagnosed as anemic and that lab charge was not covered by the “free” physical. It was not until I went through a state (California) agency that investigates insurance abuse that I was able to get Aetna to relent and stop the flow of bills. To this day I do not know if that investigator ever spoke with my doctor.

We hear of the large percentage of our health costs being due to various entities arguing over who pays what. I can tell you from experience it is true. Add to that the opportunity cost of the numerous hours I spent on this fiasco

I am healthy and have the flexibility to arrange my work schedule around being available during the hours the various offices involved are open. What about someone who is weakened by cancer and gets piled on by ineptitude like I did? What about the person working in a sweatshop who buys their own coverage but does not have time during the day to conduct personal business over the phone?

Canada, much of Europe and Australia have shown there is a lot of merit and cost savings to a single payer system. After my experience I am all for it.[/quote]

THANK YOU for your post. USA is the ONLY country among G8 plus South Korea that doesn’t offer some kind of public (govt operation or govt funding) health care. Why? Are those countries socialist countries?

BTW, this article on NYTimes didn’t get much talk but check it out.

excerpt
Since 1974, Hawaii has required all employers to provide relatively generous health care benefits to any employee who works 20 hours a week or more. If health care legislation passes in Congress, the rest of the country may barely catch up.

[dbapig]

[quote=commercialappraiser]I am 53 and self employed. I am very healthy and only carry catastrophic health insurance. My Aetna plan offered a “free” physical at 50. At that time I had not seen a doctor in almost a decade so I found one on the approved list and took advantage of the “free” service. All went well. The doc told me I was in perfect health.

The trouble started a month later when I got a bill in the mail, then another and then another. All for different amounts and each very cryptic. I called Aetna (they refuse to answer e-mails) and got put on hold and transferred around and disconnected and was generally treated rudely. The first bill we were finally able to figure out. During the physical the doctor had frozen off a small spot on my arm he thought may have been skin cancer and charged me $70. It took him two minutes and he did not order a biopsy. Aetna said this was part of my deductible so I ended up paying that bill directly to the doctor. No problem so far.

The other bills were for “non routine” lab work associated with the “free” physical. I was told (after more phone transfers and waiting) to talk to the lab or my doctor for an explanation. I called the doctor’s office (hold, transfer, wait, we’ll call you back) and by the end of what seemed like a long day, they reconfirmed that my diagnosis was routine. The next day I called the lab and, surprisingly, quickly got to someone who told me my blood test indicated anemia.

Well it would take more space than I have here to detail what followed. Basically months of getting the run around while the bills for lab work kept piling up with late charges added. At no point could I get the three entities (Aetna, lab and doctor) to get together on a conference call and figure this out. Meanwhile I am wondering if I do have anemia. My doctor says no but the lab says yes.

I finally filed a formal grievance with Aetna. After a month or so their investigator’s finding was that I was diagnosed as anemic and that lab charge was not covered by the “free” physical. It was not until I went through a state (California) agency that investigates insurance abuse that I was able to get Aetna to relent and stop the flow of bills. To this day I do not know if that investigator ever spoke with my doctor.

We hear of the large percentage of our health costs being due to various entities arguing over who pays what. I can tell you from experience it is true. Add to that the opportunity cost of the numerous hours I spent on this fiasco

I am healthy and have the flexibility to arrange my work schedule around being available during the hours the various offices involved are open. What about someone who is weakened by cancer and gets piled on by ineptitude like I did? What about the person working in a sweatshop who buys their own coverage but does not have time during the day to conduct personal business over the phone?

Canada, much of Europe and Australia have shown there is a lot of merit and cost savings to a single payer system. After my experience I am all for it.[/quote]

THANK YOU for your post. USA is the ONLY country among G8 plus South Korea that doesn’t offer some kind of public (govt operation or govt funding) health care. Why? Are those countries socialist countries?

BTW, this article on NYTimes didn’t get much talk but check it out.

excerpt
Since 1974, Hawaii has required all employers to provide relatively generous health care benefits to any employee who works 20 hours a week or more. If health care legislation passes in Congress, the rest of the country may barely catch up.

[ltokuda]

I used to be unsure about the public option until I found out what happened to my co-worker. We both have decent jobs with “good” health insurance coverage. I’ve always assumed that if I got sick, my insurance company would take care of me.

Well, unfortunately, my co-worker did get sick and was forced to take a leave of absence. He signed up for COBRA but the sickness & treatments dragged on for over a year. After that, his eligibility for COBRA ran out so his only option now is to buy insurance on the open market with his pre-existing sickness. There’s no way he can afford to buy insurance anymore.

This was a real revelation to me. I’ve talked about this with my friends and they were all shocked to hear it. Everyone thought they were covered. It never occured to them that they were only allowed to be sick for a year or so.

I’m guessing that most people with insurance have absolutely no idea how vulnerable they really are. I understand it and still have a hard time getting my head around it. It just boggles the mind.

[ltokuda]

I used to be unsure about the public option until I found out what happened to my co-worker. We both have decent jobs with “good” health insurance coverage. I’ve always assumed that if I got sick, my insurance company would take care of me.

Well, unfortunately, my co-worker did get sick and was forced to take a leave of absence. He signed up for COBRA but the sickness & treatments dragged on for over a year. After that, his eligibility for COBRA ran out so his only option now is to buy insurance on the open market with his pre-existing sickness. There’s no way he can afford to buy insurance anymore.

This was a real revelation to me. I’ve talked about this with my friends and they were all shocked to hear it. Everyone thought they were covered. It never occured to them that they were only allowed to be sick for a year or so.

I’m guessing that most people with insurance have absolutely no idea how vulnerable they really are. I understand it and still have a hard time getting my head around it. It just boggles the mind.

[ltokuda]

I used to be unsure about the public option until I found out what happened to my co-worker. We both have decent jobs with “good” health insurance coverage. I’ve always assumed that if I got sick, my insurance company would take care of me.

Well, unfortunately, my co-worker did get sick and was forced to take a leave of absence. He signed up for COBRA but the sickness & treatments dragged on for over a year. After that, his eligibility for COBRA ran out so his only option now is to buy insurance on the open market with his pre-existing sickness. There’s no way he can afford to buy insurance anymore.

This was a real revelation to me. I’ve talked about this with my friends and they were all shocked to hear it. Everyone thought they were covered. It never occured to them that they were only allowed to be sick for a year or so.

I’m guessing that most people with insurance have absolutely no idea how vulnerable they really are. I understand it and still have a hard time getting my head around it. It just boggles the mind.

[ltokuda]

I used to be unsure about the public option until I found out what happened to my co-worker. We both have decent jobs with “good” health insurance coverage. I’ve always assumed that if I got sick, my insurance company would take care of me.

Well, unfortunately, my co-worker did get sick and was forced to take a leave of absence. He signed up for COBRA but the sickness & treatments dragged on for over a year. After that, his eligibility for COBRA ran out so his only option now is to buy insurance on the open market with his pre-existing sickness. There’s no way he can afford to buy insurance anymore.

This was a real revelation to me. I’ve talked about this with my friends and they were all shocked to hear it. Everyone thought they were covered. It never occured to them that they were only allowed to be sick for a year or so.

I’m guessing that most people with insurance have absolutely no idea how vulnerable they really are. I understand it and still have a hard time getting my head around it. It just boggles the mind.

[ltokuda]

I used to be unsure about the public option until I found out what happened to my co-worker. We both have decent jobs with “good” health insurance coverage. I’ve always assumed that if I got sick, my insurance company would take care of me.

Well, unfortunately, my co-worker did get sick and was forced to take a leave of absence. He signed up for COBRA but the sickness & treatments dragged on for over a year. After that, his eligibility for COBRA ran out so his only option now is to buy insurance on the open market with his pre-existing sickness. There’s no way he can afford to buy insurance anymore.

This was a real revelation to me. I’ve talked about this with my friends and they were all shocked to hear it. Everyone thought they were covered. It never occured to them that they were only allowed to be sick for a year or so.

I’m guessing that most people with insurance have absolutely no idea how vulnerable they really are. I understand it and still have a hard time getting my head around it. It just boggles the mind.

[ucodegen]

I’m guessing that most people with insurance have absolutely no idea how vulnerable they really are. I understand it and still have a hard time getting my head around it. It just boggles the mind.

I do, that is why I was setting aside money every paycheck when I was working. I did not participate in the company plan. The money that would have gone into the plan went into the investments. I just wish I could have taken it pre-tax. When I was laid off, it was no big deal.. I had all that money to cover any illnesses, plus additional funds to cover being unemployed.

If you get laid off, you get screwed over by insurance.. it is not as ‘guaranteed’ as people are led to believe.

[ucodegen]

I’m guessing that most people with insurance have absolutely no idea how vulnerable they really are. I understand it and still have a hard time getting my head around it. It just boggles the mind.

I do, that is why I was setting aside money every paycheck when I was working. I did not participate in the company plan. The money that would have gone into the plan went into the investments. I just wish I could have taken it pre-tax. When I was laid off, it was no big deal.. I had all that money to cover any illnesses, plus additional funds to cover being unemployed.

If you get laid off, you get screwed over by insurance.. it is not as ‘guaranteed’ as people are led to believe.

[ucodegen]

I’m guessing that most people with insurance have absolutely no idea how vulnerable they really are. I understand it and still have a hard time getting my head around it. It just boggles the mind.

I do, that is why I was setting aside money every paycheck when I was working. I did not participate in the company plan. The money that would have gone into the plan went into the investments. I just wish I could have taken it pre-tax. When I was laid off, it was no big deal.. I had all that money to cover any illnesses, plus additional funds to cover being unemployed.

If you get laid off, you get screwed over by insurance.. it is not as ‘guaranteed’ as people are led to believe.

[ucodegen]

I’m guessing that most people with insurance have absolutely no idea how vulnerable they really are. I understand it and still have a hard time getting my head around it. It just boggles the mind.

I do, that is why I was setting aside money every paycheck when I was working. I did not participate in the company plan. The money that would have gone into the plan went into the investments. I just wish I could have taken it pre-tax. When I was laid off, it was no big deal.. I had all that money to cover any illnesses, plus additional funds to cover being unemployed.

If you get laid off, you get screwed over by insurance.. it is not as ‘guaranteed’ as people are led to believe.

[Author]

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