GM Faces potential BK

[Coronita]

[quote=Scarlet]”edukation”

Is that some 1980s hair band or a spell in D&D? Or perhaps some melo-drama from your high-school picked-on days, similar to The Breakfast Club?

Nerd[/quote]

I thought that’s how you and your unionaw buddies spell. (close enough…).Anyway, I’d take being a nerd over being a factory worker anyday. Good luck with the BK process.
Anyone ever heard of going to college or doing a vocational program that pays you does more thinking than just assembling nuts and bolts? And some of the times, your buddies can’t even get that right. Doh!

[barnaby33]

I must say whenever I read a title that says may or might when it comes to bad news, I just assume it is fait accompli. Furthermore I just assume the headline is nowhere near negative enough.

Why must GM’s bankruptcy and future viability be tied to nationalized healthcare? It wasn’t terribly competitive throughout most of the 90’s and certainly wasn’t in the 80’s when the Japanese starting eating our lunch. I personally feel that too much emphasis is being placed on healthcare costs, and how to continue to offer those benefits, when the realization should be it was a dumb idea to offer them and they cannot be continued.

After GM goes through a bankruptcy and has its cost structures aligned with what the market can absorb, then we could have a national debate about the costs and benefits of nationalized or employer provided care. I just don’t see these issues as being tightly linked to GM’s future, so much as its past and the unrealistic expectations that its employees and retirees have.
Josh

[barnaby33]

I must say whenever I read a title that says may or might when it comes to bad news, I just assume it is fait accompli. Furthermore I just assume the headline is nowhere near negative enough.

Why must GM’s bankruptcy and future viability be tied to nationalized healthcare? It wasn’t terribly competitive throughout most of the 90’s and certainly wasn’t in the 80’s when the Japanese starting eating our lunch. I personally feel that too much emphasis is being placed on healthcare costs, and how to continue to offer those benefits, when the realization should be it was a dumb idea to offer them and they cannot be continued.

After GM goes through a bankruptcy and has its cost structures aligned with what the market can absorb, then we could have a national debate about the costs and benefits of nationalized or employer provided care. I just don’t see these issues as being tightly linked to GM’s future, so much as its past and the unrealistic expectations that its employees and retirees have.
Josh

[barnaby33]

I must say whenever I read a title that says may or might when it comes to bad news, I just assume it is fait accompli. Furthermore I just assume the headline is nowhere near negative enough.

Why must GM’s bankruptcy and future viability be tied to nationalized healthcare? It wasn’t terribly competitive throughout most of the 90’s and certainly wasn’t in the 80’s when the Japanese starting eating our lunch. I personally feel that too much emphasis is being placed on healthcare costs, and how to continue to offer those benefits, when the realization should be it was a dumb idea to offer them and they cannot be continued.

After GM goes through a bankruptcy and has its cost structures aligned with what the market can absorb, then we could have a national debate about the costs and benefits of nationalized or employer provided care. I just don’t see these issues as being tightly linked to GM’s future, so much as its past and the unrealistic expectations that its employees and retirees have.
Josh

[barnaby33]

I must say whenever I read a title that says may or might when it comes to bad news, I just assume it is fait accompli. Furthermore I just assume the headline is nowhere near negative enough.

Why must GM’s bankruptcy and future viability be tied to nationalized healthcare? It wasn’t terribly competitive throughout most of the 90’s and certainly wasn’t in the 80’s when the Japanese starting eating our lunch. I personally feel that too much emphasis is being placed on healthcare costs, and how to continue to offer those benefits, when the realization should be it was a dumb idea to offer them and they cannot be continued.

After GM goes through a bankruptcy and has its cost structures aligned with what the market can absorb, then we could have a national debate about the costs and benefits of nationalized or employer provided care. I just don’t see these issues as being tightly linked to GM’s future, so much as its past and the unrealistic expectations that its employees and retirees have.
Josh

[barnaby33]

I must say whenever I read a title that says may or might when it comes to bad news, I just assume it is fait accompli. Furthermore I just assume the headline is nowhere near negative enough.

Why must GM’s bankruptcy and future viability be tied to nationalized healthcare? It wasn’t terribly competitive throughout most of the 90’s and certainly wasn’t in the 80’s when the Japanese starting eating our lunch. I personally feel that too much emphasis is being placed on healthcare costs, and how to continue to offer those benefits, when the realization should be it was a dumb idea to offer them and they cannot be continued.

After GM goes through a bankruptcy and has its cost structures aligned with what the market can absorb, then we could have a national debate about the costs and benefits of nationalized or employer provided care. I just don’t see these issues as being tightly linked to GM’s future, so much as its past and the unrealistic expectations that its employees and retirees have.
Josh

[no_such_reality]

We can bail them out on the government dole or let them bk and a bunch go on the government dole.

Either way, it’s the government dole, which is yours and my taxes.

There is an advantage to bankruptcy though. The workers will be on the government dole directly and all the denial and lies about the welfare will have to stop. A bailout is welfare. The GM job bank with a bailout is a welfare. Unemployment insurance, WIC, etc, is welfare and if they need it, give it, but cripes, lets call a handout a handout.

So put them on the government dole, make them look in the mirror and admit that they are getting WELFARE. Maybe some of them will then get jobs that actually produce more than they suck up.

[no_such_reality]

We can bail them out on the government dole or let them bk and a bunch go on the government dole.

Either way, it’s the government dole, which is yours and my taxes.

There is an advantage to bankruptcy though. The workers will be on the government dole directly and all the denial and lies about the welfare will have to stop. A bailout is welfare. The GM job bank with a bailout is a welfare. Unemployment insurance, WIC, etc, is welfare and if they need it, give it, but cripes, lets call a handout a handout.

So put them on the government dole, make them look in the mirror and admit that they are getting WELFARE. Maybe some of them will then get jobs that actually produce more than they suck up.

[no_such_reality]

We can bail them out on the government dole or let them bk and a bunch go on the government dole.

Either way, it’s the government dole, which is yours and my taxes.

There is an advantage to bankruptcy though. The workers will be on the government dole directly and all the denial and lies about the welfare will have to stop. A bailout is welfare. The GM job bank with a bailout is a welfare. Unemployment insurance, WIC, etc, is welfare and if they need it, give it, but cripes, lets call a handout a handout.

So put them on the government dole, make them look in the mirror and admit that they are getting WELFARE. Maybe some of them will then get jobs that actually produce more than they suck up.

[no_such_reality]

We can bail them out on the government dole or let them bk and a bunch go on the government dole.

Either way, it’s the government dole, which is yours and my taxes.

There is an advantage to bankruptcy though. The workers will be on the government dole directly and all the denial and lies about the welfare will have to stop. A bailout is welfare. The GM job bank with a bailout is a welfare. Unemployment insurance, WIC, etc, is welfare and if they need it, give it, but cripes, lets call a handout a handout.

So put them on the government dole, make them look in the mirror and admit that they are getting WELFARE. Maybe some of them will then get jobs that actually produce more than they suck up.

[no_such_reality]

We can bail them out on the government dole or let them bk and a bunch go on the government dole.

Either way, it’s the government dole, which is yours and my taxes.

There is an advantage to bankruptcy though. The workers will be on the government dole directly and all the denial and lies about the welfare will have to stop. A bailout is welfare. The GM job bank with a bailout is a welfare. Unemployment insurance, WIC, etc, is welfare and if they need it, give it, but cripes, lets call a handout a handout.

So put them on the government dole, make them look in the mirror and admit that they are getting WELFARE. Maybe some of them will then get jobs that actually produce more than they suck up.

[patb]

[quote=patientrenter][quote=Scarlet]Not bad.

Healthcare needs to be dealt with too. How can GM ever compete if the Japanese Government pays healthcare for Toyota, Honda, etc. workers? Dito Germany for BMW, Mercedes……

We don’t want GM walking out of the ER nice and healthy only to be hit by the same truck.[/quote]

If it’s the Japanese government, then does that mean it’s cost-free to the people of Japan? Of course not. The cost of the health care for all the people of Japan is borne by the people (taxpayers) of Japan. That includes Toyota and its workers, and it suppliers and their workers, etc. If Toyota and its workers pay $5,000 per worker in taxes to the government for health care for those workers, that has the same long-term economic impact on Toyota and its workers as a direct payment of $5,000 from the company to the health care providers.

Why is it so hard for people to understand that government, or insurance, or any other delivery mechanism for health care, does not provide a free lunch. THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH. The only thing that will help reduce the burden of health care on our pockets and competitiveness is reducing how much we spend on it, not changing who spends it.

Sorry to be brutal, Scarlet, but sometimes I wish that every voter was required to meet economic literacy tests. We can no longer afford the luxury of making big decisions on our economy based on uninformed populism.[/quote]

P_R

If we had single payer we could effectively double
health care delivery, by eliminating waste from the insurance
companies.

Medicare is 30 times more efficient then United Health.

[patb]

[quote=patientrenter][quote=Scarlet]Not bad.

Healthcare needs to be dealt with too. How can GM ever compete if the Japanese Government pays healthcare for Toyota, Honda, etc. workers? Dito Germany for BMW, Mercedes……

We don’t want GM walking out of the ER nice and healthy only to be hit by the same truck.[/quote]

If it’s the Japanese government, then does that mean it’s cost-free to the people of Japan? Of course not. The cost of the health care for all the people of Japan is borne by the people (taxpayers) of Japan. That includes Toyota and its workers, and it suppliers and their workers, etc. If Toyota and its workers pay $5,000 per worker in taxes to the government for health care for those workers, that has the same long-term economic impact on Toyota and its workers as a direct payment of $5,000 from the company to the health care providers.

Why is it so hard for people to understand that government, or insurance, or any other delivery mechanism for health care, does not provide a free lunch. THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH. The only thing that will help reduce the burden of health care on our pockets and competitiveness is reducing how much we spend on it, not changing who spends it.

Sorry to be brutal, Scarlet, but sometimes I wish that every voter was required to meet economic literacy tests. We can no longer afford the luxury of making big decisions on our economy based on uninformed populism.[/quote]

P_R

If we had single payer we could effectively double
health care delivery, by eliminating waste from the insurance
companies.

Medicare is 30 times more efficient then United Health.

[patb]

[quote=patientrenter][quote=Scarlet]Not bad.

Healthcare needs to be dealt with too. How can GM ever compete if the Japanese Government pays healthcare for Toyota, Honda, etc. workers? Dito Germany for BMW, Mercedes……

We don’t want GM walking out of the ER nice and healthy only to be hit by the same truck.[/quote]

If it’s the Japanese government, then does that mean it’s cost-free to the people of Japan? Of course not. The cost of the health care for all the people of Japan is borne by the people (taxpayers) of Japan. That includes Toyota and its workers, and it suppliers and their workers, etc. If Toyota and its workers pay $5,000 per worker in taxes to the government for health care for those workers, that has the same long-term economic impact on Toyota and its workers as a direct payment of $5,000 from the company to the health care providers.

Why is it so hard for people to understand that government, or insurance, or any other delivery mechanism for health care, does not provide a free lunch. THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH. The only thing that will help reduce the burden of health care on our pockets and competitiveness is reducing how much we spend on it, not changing who spends it.

Sorry to be brutal, Scarlet, but sometimes I wish that every voter was required to meet economic literacy tests. We can no longer afford the luxury of making big decisions on our economy based on uninformed populism.[/quote]

P_R

If we had single payer we could effectively double
health care delivery, by eliminating waste from the insurance
companies.

Medicare is 30 times more efficient then United Health.

[patb]

[quote=patientrenter][quote=Scarlet]Not bad.

Healthcare needs to be dealt with too. How can GM ever compete if the Japanese Government pays healthcare for Toyota, Honda, etc. workers? Dito Germany for BMW, Mercedes……

We don’t want GM walking out of the ER nice and healthy only to be hit by the same truck.[/quote]

If it’s the Japanese government, then does that mean it’s cost-free to the people of Japan? Of course not. The cost of the health care for all the people of Japan is borne by the people (taxpayers) of Japan. That includes Toyota and its workers, and it suppliers and their workers, etc. If Toyota and its workers pay $5,000 per worker in taxes to the government for health care for those workers, that has the same long-term economic impact on Toyota and its workers as a direct payment of $5,000 from the company to the health care providers.

Why is it so hard for people to understand that government, or insurance, or any other delivery mechanism for health care, does not provide a free lunch. THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH. The only thing that will help reduce the burden of health care on our pockets and competitiveness is reducing how much we spend on it, not changing who spends it.

Sorry to be brutal, Scarlet, but sometimes I wish that every voter was required to meet economic literacy tests. We can no longer afford the luxury of making big decisions on our economy based on uninformed populism.[/quote]

P_R

If we had single payer we could effectively double
health care delivery, by eliminating waste from the insurance
companies.

Medicare is 30 times more efficient then United Health.

[Author]

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