Home › Forums › Financial Markets/Economics › GM Faces potential BK
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Coronita.
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March 5, 2009 at 6:00 PM #361622March 5, 2009 at 6:02 PM #361039
patientrenter
Participant[quote=Scarlet]Not bad.
I would add:
Throw in trade restructuring. If not then any new version of GM will just suffer the same injustices the current incarnation has.
Japan has managed to lower the value of the Yen vs the Dollar by 12% this year alone. We need some sort of strategy to deal with those types of things.
Healthcare needs to be dealt with too. How can GM ever compete if the Japanese Government pays healthcare for Toyota, Honda, etc. workers? Dito Germany for BMW, Mercedes……
We don’t want GM walking out of the ER nice and healthy only to be hit by the same truck.[/quote]
The yen is still stronger than it was for most of 2008.
Scarlet, if Toyota and Honda etc. don’t have to bear the costs of health care for their workers, then who is paying for that health care?
If it’s the Japanese government, then does that mean it’s cost-free to the people of Japan? Of course not. The cost of the health care for all the people of Japan is borne by the people (taxpayers) of Japan. That includes Toyota and its workers, and it suppliers and their workers, etc. If Toyota and its workers pay $5,000 per worker in taxes to the government for health care for those workers, that has the same long-term economic impact on Toyota and its workers as a direct payment of $5,000 from the company to the health care providers.
Why is it so hard for people to understand that government, or insurance, or any other delivery mechanism for health care, does not provide a free lunch. THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH. The only thing that will help reduce the burden of health care on our pockets and competitiveness is reducing how much we spend on it, not changing who spends it.
Sorry to be brutal, Scarlet, but sometimes I wish that every voter was required to meet economic literacy tests. We can no longer afford the luxury of making big decisions on our economy based on uninformed populism.
March 5, 2009 at 6:02 PM #361336Participant[quote=Scarlet]Not bad.
I would add:
Throw in trade restructuring. If not then any new version of GM will just suffer the same injustices the current incarnation has.
Japan has managed to lower the value of the Yen vs the Dollar by 12% this year alone. We need some sort of strategy to deal with those types of things.
Healthcare needs to be dealt with too. How can GM ever compete if the Japanese Government pays healthcare for Toyota, Honda, etc. workers? Dito Germany for BMW, Mercedes……
We don’t want GM walking out of the ER nice and healthy only to be hit by the same truck.[/quote]
The yen is still stronger than it was for most of 2008.
Scarlet, if Toyota and Honda etc. don’t have to bear the costs of health care for their workers, then who is paying for that health care?
If it’s the Japanese government, then does that mean it’s cost-free to the people of Japan? Of course not. The cost of the health care for all the people of Japan is borne by the people (taxpayers) of Japan. That includes Toyota and its workers, and it suppliers and their workers, etc. If Toyota and its workers pay $5,000 per worker in taxes to the government for health care for those workers, that has the same long-term economic impact on Toyota and its workers as a direct payment of $5,000 from the company to the health care providers.
Why is it so hard for people to understand that government, or insurance, or any other delivery mechanism for health care, does not provide a free lunch. THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH. The only thing that will help reduce the burden of health care on our pockets and competitiveness is reducing how much we spend on it, not changing who spends it.
Sorry to be brutal, Scarlet, but sometimes I wish that every voter was required to meet economic literacy tests. We can no longer afford the luxury of making big decisions on our economy based on uninformed populism.
March 5, 2009 at 6:02 PM #361478Participant[quote=Scarlet]Not bad.
I would add:
Throw in trade restructuring. If not then any new version of GM will just suffer the same injustices the current incarnation has.
Japan has managed to lower the value of the Yen vs the Dollar by 12% this year alone. We need some sort of strategy to deal with those types of things.
Healthcare needs to be dealt with too. How can GM ever compete if the Japanese Government pays healthcare for Toyota, Honda, etc. workers? Dito Germany for BMW, Mercedes……
We don’t want GM walking out of the ER nice and healthy only to be hit by the same truck.[/quote]
The yen is still stronger than it was for most of 2008.
Scarlet, if Toyota and Honda etc. don’t have to bear the costs of health care for their workers, then who is paying for that health care?
If it’s the Japanese government, then does that mean it’s cost-free to the people of Japan? Of course not. The cost of the health care for all the people of Japan is borne by the people (taxpayers) of Japan. That includes Toyota and its workers, and it suppliers and their workers, etc. If Toyota and its workers pay $5,000 per worker in taxes to the government for health care for those workers, that has the same long-term economic impact on Toyota and its workers as a direct payment of $5,000 from the company to the health care providers.
Why is it so hard for people to understand that government, or insurance, or any other delivery mechanism for health care, does not provide a free lunch. THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH. The only thing that will help reduce the burden of health care on our pockets and competitiveness is reducing how much we spend on it, not changing who spends it.
Sorry to be brutal, Scarlet, but sometimes I wish that every voter was required to meet economic literacy tests. We can no longer afford the luxury of making big decisions on our economy based on uninformed populism.
March 5, 2009 at 6:02 PM #361519Participant[quote=Scarlet]Not bad.
I would add:
Throw in trade restructuring. If not then any new version of GM will just suffer the same injustices the current incarnation has.
Japan has managed to lower the value of the Yen vs the Dollar by 12% this year alone. We need some sort of strategy to deal with those types of things.
Healthcare needs to be dealt with too. How can GM ever compete if the Japanese Government pays healthcare for Toyota, Honda, etc. workers? Dito Germany for BMW, Mercedes……
We don’t want GM walking out of the ER nice and healthy only to be hit by the same truck.[/quote]
The yen is still stronger than it was for most of 2008.
Scarlet, if Toyota and Honda etc. don’t have to bear the costs of health care for their workers, then who is paying for that health care?
If it’s the Japanese government, then does that mean it’s cost-free to the people of Japan? Of course not. The cost of the health care for all the people of Japan is borne by the people (taxpayers) of Japan. That includes Toyota and its workers, and it suppliers and their workers, etc. If Toyota and its workers pay $5,000 per worker in taxes to the government for health care for those workers, that has the same long-term economic impact on Toyota and its workers as a direct payment of $5,000 from the company to the health care providers.
Why is it so hard for people to understand that government, or insurance, or any other delivery mechanism for health care, does not provide a free lunch. THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH. The only thing that will help reduce the burden of health care on our pockets and competitiveness is reducing how much we spend on it, not changing who spends it.
Sorry to be brutal, Scarlet, but sometimes I wish that every voter was required to meet economic literacy tests. We can no longer afford the luxury of making big decisions on our economy based on uninformed populism.
March 5, 2009 at 6:02 PM #361627Participant[quote=Scarlet]Not bad.
I would add:
Throw in trade restructuring. If not then any new version of GM will just suffer the same injustices the current incarnation has.
Japan has managed to lower the value of the Yen vs the Dollar by 12% this year alone. We need some sort of strategy to deal with those types of things.
Healthcare needs to be dealt with too. How can GM ever compete if the Japanese Government pays healthcare for Toyota, Honda, etc. workers? Dito Germany for BMW, Mercedes……
We don’t want GM walking out of the ER nice and healthy only to be hit by the same truck.[/quote]
The yen is still stronger than it was for most of 2008.
Scarlet, if Toyota and Honda etc. don’t have to bear the costs of health care for their workers, then who is paying for that health care?
If it’s the Japanese government, then does that mean it’s cost-free to the people of Japan? Of course not. The cost of the health care for all the people of Japan is borne by the people (taxpayers) of Japan. That includes Toyota and its workers, and it suppliers and their workers, etc. If Toyota and its workers pay $5,000 per worker in taxes to the government for health care for those workers, that has the same long-term economic impact on Toyota and its workers as a direct payment of $5,000 from the company to the health care providers.
Why is it so hard for people to understand that government, or insurance, or any other delivery mechanism for health care, does not provide a free lunch. THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH. The only thing that will help reduce the burden of health care on our pockets and competitiveness is reducing how much we spend on it, not changing who spends it.
Sorry to be brutal, Scarlet, but sometimes I wish that every voter was required to meet economic literacy tests. We can no longer afford the luxury of making big decisions on our economy based on uninformed populism.
March 5, 2009 at 6:05 PM #361049dbapig
Participant[quote=Scarlet]
Healthcare needs to be dealt with too. How can GM ever compete if the Japanese Government pays healthcare for Toyota, Honda, etc. workers? Dito Germany for BMW, Mercedes……
[/quote]
Don’t forget Hyundai/Kia. South Korea offers universal healthcare too. The kicker is, the program covers people of Korean ancestry (not living in Korea) too. For example, if you are of Korean ancestry and a citizen of US, you can still join the program. After paying monthly fee for a few months you become eligible to receive health care in South Korea.
I personally heard a story of a lady from Southern Cal who immigrated to US 20+ yrs ago from S Korea. She felt unexplained pains but had no health insurance. So she went over to Korea and joined the program. After 1 or 2 months, she became eligible to get coverage, got some test done and turned out she had cancer. It required surgery and 10-day hospitalization. I’m not sure if she stayed for chemo/radiation but I did hear she paid $700 out of pocket for the surgery and 10 day hospital stay, done in S Korea.
Sad sad.
March 5, 2009 at 6:05 PM #361346Participant[quote=Scarlet]
Healthcare needs to be dealt with too. How can GM ever compete if the Japanese Government pays healthcare for Toyota, Honda, etc. workers? Dito Germany for BMW, Mercedes……
[/quote]
Don’t forget Hyundai/Kia. South Korea offers universal healthcare too. The kicker is, the program covers people of Korean ancestry (not living in Korea) too. For example, if you are of Korean ancestry and a citizen of US, you can still join the program. After paying monthly fee for a few months you become eligible to receive health care in South Korea.
I personally heard a story of a lady from Southern Cal who immigrated to US 20+ yrs ago from S Korea. She felt unexplained pains but had no health insurance. So she went over to Korea and joined the program. After 1 or 2 months, she became eligible to get coverage, got some test done and turned out she had cancer. It required surgery and 10-day hospitalization. I’m not sure if she stayed for chemo/radiation but I did hear she paid $700 out of pocket for the surgery and 10 day hospital stay, done in S Korea.
Sad sad.
March 5, 2009 at 6:05 PM #361488Participant[quote=Scarlet]
Healthcare needs to be dealt with too. How can GM ever compete if the Japanese Government pays healthcare for Toyota, Honda, etc. workers? Dito Germany for BMW, Mercedes……
[/quote]
Don’t forget Hyundai/Kia. South Korea offers universal healthcare too. The kicker is, the program covers people of Korean ancestry (not living in Korea) too. For example, if you are of Korean ancestry and a citizen of US, you can still join the program. After paying monthly fee for a few months you become eligible to receive health care in South Korea.
I personally heard a story of a lady from Southern Cal who immigrated to US 20+ yrs ago from S Korea. She felt unexplained pains but had no health insurance. So she went over to Korea and joined the program. After 1 or 2 months, she became eligible to get coverage, got some test done and turned out she had cancer. It required surgery and 10-day hospitalization. I’m not sure if she stayed for chemo/radiation but I did hear she paid $700 out of pocket for the surgery and 10 day hospital stay, done in S Korea.
Sad sad.
March 5, 2009 at 6:05 PM #361529Participant[quote=Scarlet]
Healthcare needs to be dealt with too. How can GM ever compete if the Japanese Government pays healthcare for Toyota, Honda, etc. workers? Dito Germany for BMW, Mercedes……
[/quote]
Don’t forget Hyundai/Kia. South Korea offers universal healthcare too. The kicker is, the program covers people of Korean ancestry (not living in Korea) too. For example, if you are of Korean ancestry and a citizen of US, you can still join the program. After paying monthly fee for a few months you become eligible to receive health care in South Korea.
I personally heard a story of a lady from Southern Cal who immigrated to US 20+ yrs ago from S Korea. She felt unexplained pains but had no health insurance. So she went over to Korea and joined the program. After 1 or 2 months, she became eligible to get coverage, got some test done and turned out she had cancer. It required surgery and 10-day hospitalization. I’m not sure if she stayed for chemo/radiation but I did hear she paid $700 out of pocket for the surgery and 10 day hospital stay, done in S Korea.
Sad sad.
March 5, 2009 at 6:05 PM #361637Participant[quote=Scarlet]
Healthcare needs to be dealt with too. How can GM ever compete if the Japanese Government pays healthcare for Toyota, Honda, etc. workers? Dito Germany for BMW, Mercedes……
[/quote]
Don’t forget Hyundai/Kia. South Korea offers universal healthcare too. The kicker is, the program covers people of Korean ancestry (not living in Korea) too. For example, if you are of Korean ancestry and a citizen of US, you can still join the program. After paying monthly fee for a few months you become eligible to receive health care in South Korea.
I personally heard a story of a lady from Southern Cal who immigrated to US 20+ yrs ago from S Korea. She felt unexplained pains but had no health insurance. So she went over to Korea and joined the program. After 1 or 2 months, she became eligible to get coverage, got some test done and turned out she had cancer. It required surgery and 10-day hospitalization. I’m not sure if she stayed for chemo/radiation but I did hear she paid $700 out of pocket for the surgery and 10 day hospital stay, done in S Korea.
Sad sad.
March 5, 2009 at 6:56 PM #361099Rt.66
Participantpatientrenter said:
- “The yen is still stronger than it was for most of 2008.”
The extent to which they manipulate from year to year changes. And that means…? Its predatory trade if one country artificially lowers its currency in order to give its manufacturers an unfair cost advantage over another country. Japan has a long history of this.
- “If it’s the Japanese government, then does that mean it’s cost-free to the people of Japan? Of course not.”
Why on earth would you assume that’s what I meant? Do you think, I think, Japan has a fairy that pays healthcare? The Japanese Government pays for the healthcare. It’s essentially a subsidy to the Japanese auto makers. A subsidy that American producers do not enjoy.
- “If Toyota and its workers pay $5,000 per worker in taxes to the government for health care for those workers, that has the same long-term economic impact on Toyota and its workers as a direct payment of $5,000 from the company to the health care providers.”
Gas tax cover most of it, so NO, its not the same.
Here GM pays ALL of it, there the people of Japan pay for it at the pump. It does not show up in Honda’s cost of building a car.In your logic the cost of building F-22s should show up in GM’s cost to build Impalas because society pays for F-22s in taxes.
How’d you do on your “economic literacy test”? LOL 😉
March 5, 2009 at 6:56 PM #361396Participantpatientrenter said:
- “The yen is still stronger than it was for most of 2008.”
The extent to which they manipulate from year to year changes. And that means…? Its predatory trade if one country artificially lowers its currency in order to give its manufacturers an unfair cost advantage over another country. Japan has a long history of this.
- “If it’s the Japanese government, then does that mean it’s cost-free to the people of Japan? Of course not.”
Why on earth would you assume that’s what I meant? Do you think, I think, Japan has a fairy that pays healthcare? The Japanese Government pays for the healthcare. It’s essentially a subsidy to the Japanese auto makers. A subsidy that American producers do not enjoy.
- “If Toyota and its workers pay $5,000 per worker in taxes to the government for health care for those workers, that has the same long-term economic impact on Toyota and its workers as a direct payment of $5,000 from the company to the health care providers.”
Gas tax cover most of it, so NO, its not the same.
Here GM pays ALL of it, there the people of Japan pay for it at the pump. It does not show up in Honda’s cost of building a car.In your logic the cost of building F-22s should show up in GM’s cost to build Impalas because society pays for F-22s in taxes.
How’d you do on your “economic literacy test”? LOL 😉
March 5, 2009 at 6:56 PM #361538Participantpatientrenter said:
- “The yen is still stronger than it was for most of 2008.”
The extent to which they manipulate from year to year changes. And that means…? Its predatory trade if one country artificially lowers its currency in order to give its manufacturers an unfair cost advantage over another country. Japan has a long history of this.
- “If it’s the Japanese government, then does that mean it’s cost-free to the people of Japan? Of course not.”
Why on earth would you assume that’s what I meant? Do you think, I think, Japan has a fairy that pays healthcare? The Japanese Government pays for the healthcare. It’s essentially a subsidy to the Japanese auto makers. A subsidy that American producers do not enjoy.
- “If Toyota and its workers pay $5,000 per worker in taxes to the government for health care for those workers, that has the same long-term economic impact on Toyota and its workers as a direct payment of $5,000 from the company to the health care providers.”
Gas tax cover most of it, so NO, its not the same.
Here GM pays ALL of it, there the people of Japan pay for it at the pump. It does not show up in Honda’s cost of building a car.In your logic the cost of building F-22s should show up in GM’s cost to build Impalas because society pays for F-22s in taxes.
How’d you do on your “economic literacy test”? LOL 😉
March 5, 2009 at 6:56 PM #361578Participantpatientrenter said:
- “The yen is still stronger than it was for most of 2008.”
The extent to which they manipulate from year to year changes. And that means…? Its predatory trade if one country artificially lowers its currency in order to give its manufacturers an unfair cost advantage over another country. Japan has a long history of this.
- “If it’s the Japanese government, then does that mean it’s cost-free to the people of Japan? Of course not.”
Why on earth would you assume that’s what I meant? Do you think, I think, Japan has a fairy that pays healthcare? The Japanese Government pays for the healthcare. It’s essentially a subsidy to the Japanese auto makers. A subsidy that American producers do not enjoy.
- “If Toyota and its workers pay $5,000 per worker in taxes to the government for health care for those workers, that has the same long-term economic impact on Toyota and its workers as a direct payment of $5,000 from the company to the health care providers.”
Gas tax cover most of it, so NO, its not the same.
Here GM pays ALL of it, there the people of Japan pay for it at the pump. It does not show up in Honda’s cost of building a car.In your logic the cost of building F-22s should show up in GM’s cost to build Impalas because society pays for F-22s in taxes.
How’d you do on your “economic literacy test”? LOL 😉
- “The yen is still stronger than it was for most of 2008.”
-
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