Free bank living – the HELOC replacement

[davelj]

[quote=jpinpb]dave – not successful w/their original plan. No doubt. But in the end, it is working out for them. How does that saying go? Something like God looks out for fools.

No, they were not able to flip for profit. But as a consolation, they have nice cars, vacations, toys and live for free for over a year.

Meanwhile, I’m “smart” so I didn’t buy something I couldn’t afford. I am not living large. I pay my rent.

Who is ahead here? [/quote]

I would argue that you are ahead. It just doesn’t appear that way at the moment. Lots of folks thought they were really smart when the Nasdaq was at 5,000. And other “conservative” folks felt stupid. That eventually reversed itself. My point is that over the LONG term, intellectual capital will pay off more than short-term baubles such as vacations, toys, etc. You’re ahead. You just don’t realize it yet.

[quote=jpinpb]
Yes. I agree it’s by accident. Neverthless, I, as CBad, know a few people living for free, traveling, driving new cars and not suffering from this.

Will these folks not learn and repeat this again? Quite possibly. Certainly moral hazard is out the window and the new black is “bailout.”[/quote]

It depends on how and over what time horizon you define “suffering.” I think most of these folks’ lives are much more difficult than it appears from the outside (as they should be). I don’t care now nonchalant someone may be, there’s a lot of stress related to the prospect of being forced out of your house and having your FICO go to 500, with all that entails.

[outtamojo]

[quote=davelj][quote=jpinpb][quote=davelj]
Well, at least these folks have acknowledged their own role in the fiasco. The banks fucked up. It would be nice if the borrowers would acknowledge that they fucked up as well. But it looks like that ain’t gonna happen with most folks. Which is why folks like this will fail over and over again throughout their lives: they lack the introspection to acknowledge their own role in their failures and, thus, learn from them. I feel sorry for these folks. They’ve got a whole life of greater disappointments ahead of them, largely of their own making.[/quote]

davelj – I was unfortunately raised w/morals, so maybe that’s what’s really stopping me from doing it. But I still don’t see it as they are failing. They are, in fact, quite successful at working the system to their favor.

So I still feel like a chump for doing the right thing.[/quote]

Successful? You cannot be serious. These people are financial morons. They “gamed the system” BY ACCIDENT. They thought they were being smart because they’d get out of these properties at higher prices (despite all Bubblicious evidence to the contrary!). And then, after everything’s fallen apart, they’re “successful” because against all odds the lenders are so slow to foreclose that they get to live “rent free” for a couple of years before getting thrown out? If this is “success,” then I want no part of it. These people are idiots who accidentally fell into a tolerable situation as a result of current foreclosure realities. Make no mistake: They have failed. Recall that the original objective was to sell out at a profit. Again, if folks like this don’t learn anything from their experience, they’ll repeat it over and over again. I have no doubt. Luck is not going to bail these folks out every time they make a bad decision. And they will continue to do so.[/quote]

Agree, it is ludicrous to think that any one of us would actually want trade places with one of those “smart” people – the envy I don’t understand either.

[outtamojo]

[quote=davelj][quote=jpinpb][quote=davelj]
Well, at least these folks have acknowledged their own role in the fiasco. The banks fucked up. It would be nice if the borrowers would acknowledge that they fucked up as well. But it looks like that ain’t gonna happen with most folks. Which is why folks like this will fail over and over again throughout their lives: they lack the introspection to acknowledge their own role in their failures and, thus, learn from them. I feel sorry for these folks. They’ve got a whole life of greater disappointments ahead of them, largely of their own making.[/quote]

davelj – I was unfortunately raised w/morals, so maybe that’s what’s really stopping me from doing it. But I still don’t see it as they are failing. They are, in fact, quite successful at working the system to their favor.

So I still feel like a chump for doing the right thing.[/quote]

Successful? You cannot be serious. These people are financial morons. They “gamed the system” BY ACCIDENT. They thought they were being smart because they’d get out of these properties at higher prices (despite all Bubblicious evidence to the contrary!). And then, after everything’s fallen apart, they’re “successful” because against all odds the lenders are so slow to foreclose that they get to live “rent free” for a couple of years before getting thrown out? If this is “success,” then I want no part of it. These people are idiots who accidentally fell into a tolerable situation as a result of current foreclosure realities. Make no mistake: They have failed. Recall that the original objective was to sell out at a profit. Again, if folks like this don’t learn anything from their experience, they’ll repeat it over and over again. I have no doubt. Luck is not going to bail these folks out every time they make a bad decision. And they will continue to do so.[/quote]

Agree, it is ludicrous to think that any one of us would actually want trade places with one of those “smart” people – the envy I don’t understand either.

[outtamojo]

[quote=davelj][quote=jpinpb][quote=davelj]
Well, at least these folks have acknowledged their own role in the fiasco. The banks fucked up. It would be nice if the borrowers would acknowledge that they fucked up as well. But it looks like that ain’t gonna happen with most folks. Which is why folks like this will fail over and over again throughout their lives: they lack the introspection to acknowledge their own role in their failures and, thus, learn from them. I feel sorry for these folks. They’ve got a whole life of greater disappointments ahead of them, largely of their own making.[/quote]

davelj – I was unfortunately raised w/morals, so maybe that’s what’s really stopping me from doing it. But I still don’t see it as they are failing. They are, in fact, quite successful at working the system to their favor.

So I still feel like a chump for doing the right thing.[/quote]

Successful? You cannot be serious. These people are financial morons. They “gamed the system” BY ACCIDENT. They thought they were being smart because they’d get out of these properties at higher prices (despite all Bubblicious evidence to the contrary!). And then, after everything’s fallen apart, they’re “successful” because against all odds the lenders are so slow to foreclose that they get to live “rent free” for a couple of years before getting thrown out? If this is “success,” then I want no part of it. These people are idiots who accidentally fell into a tolerable situation as a result of current foreclosure realities. Make no mistake: They have failed. Recall that the original objective was to sell out at a profit. Again, if folks like this don’t learn anything from their experience, they’ll repeat it over and over again. I have no doubt. Luck is not going to bail these folks out every time they make a bad decision. And they will continue to do so.[/quote]

Agree, it is ludicrous to think that any one of us would actually want trade places with one of those “smart” people – the envy I don’t understand either.

[outtamojo]

[quote=davelj][quote=jpinpb][quote=davelj]
Well, at least these folks have acknowledged their own role in the fiasco. The banks fucked up. It would be nice if the borrowers would acknowledge that they fucked up as well. But it looks like that ain’t gonna happen with most folks. Which is why folks like this will fail over and over again throughout their lives: they lack the introspection to acknowledge their own role in their failures and, thus, learn from them. I feel sorry for these folks. They’ve got a whole life of greater disappointments ahead of them, largely of their own making.[/quote]

davelj – I was unfortunately raised w/morals, so maybe that’s what’s really stopping me from doing it. But I still don’t see it as they are failing. They are, in fact, quite successful at working the system to their favor.

So I still feel like a chump for doing the right thing.[/quote]

Successful? You cannot be serious. These people are financial morons. They “gamed the system” BY ACCIDENT. They thought they were being smart because they’d get out of these properties at higher prices (despite all Bubblicious evidence to the contrary!). And then, after everything’s fallen apart, they’re “successful” because against all odds the lenders are so slow to foreclose that they get to live “rent free” for a couple of years before getting thrown out? If this is “success,” then I want no part of it. These people are idiots who accidentally fell into a tolerable situation as a result of current foreclosure realities. Make no mistake: They have failed. Recall that the original objective was to sell out at a profit. Again, if folks like this don’t learn anything from their experience, they’ll repeat it over and over again. I have no doubt. Luck is not going to bail these folks out every time they make a bad decision. And they will continue to do so.[/quote]

Agree, it is ludicrous to think that any one of us would actually want trade places with one of those “smart” people – the envy I don’t understand either.

[outtamojo]

[quote=davelj][quote=jpinpb][quote=davelj]
Well, at least these folks have acknowledged their own role in the fiasco. The banks fucked up. It would be nice if the borrowers would acknowledge that they fucked up as well. But it looks like that ain’t gonna happen with most folks. Which is why folks like this will fail over and over again throughout their lives: they lack the introspection to acknowledge their own role in their failures and, thus, learn from them. I feel sorry for these folks. They’ve got a whole life of greater disappointments ahead of them, largely of their own making.[/quote]

davelj – I was unfortunately raised w/morals, so maybe that’s what’s really stopping me from doing it. But I still don’t see it as they are failing. They are, in fact, quite successful at working the system to their favor.

So I still feel like a chump for doing the right thing.[/quote]

Successful? You cannot be serious. These people are financial morons. They “gamed the system” BY ACCIDENT. They thought they were being smart because they’d get out of these properties at higher prices (despite all Bubblicious evidence to the contrary!). And then, after everything’s fallen apart, they’re “successful” because against all odds the lenders are so slow to foreclose that they get to live “rent free” for a couple of years before getting thrown out? If this is “success,” then I want no part of it. These people are idiots who accidentally fell into a tolerable situation as a result of current foreclosure realities. Make no mistake: They have failed. Recall that the original objective was to sell out at a profit. Again, if folks like this don’t learn anything from their experience, they’ll repeat it over and over again. I have no doubt. Luck is not going to bail these folks out every time they make a bad decision. And they will continue to do so.[/quote]

Agree, it is ludicrous to think that any one of us would actually want trade places with one of those “smart” people – the envy I don’t understand either.

[jpinpb]

[quote=davelj]
It depends on how and over what time horizon you define “suffering.” I think most of these folks’ lives are much more difficult than it appears from the outside (as they should be). I don’t care now nonchalant someone may be, there’s a lot of stress related to the prospect of being forced out of your house and having your FICO go to 500, with all that entails.[/quote]

dave – do you personally know any of these people? I know of 2. Not real close, but I have been in social situations where I’ve seen them through other friends/acquaintances. They are not hiding the fact they have lived for free and as the article even states, they are not stressing about it.

They’ve confided in me when I asked them about it. If they are stressed, then they missed their calling and they should be in Hollywood. But that must be the new mentality I’m lacking. I would be so stressed. These folks are just taking it in stride.

No. In the end, I’m just not raised that way and I wouldn’t trade place. Maybe wish I could not be so conservative. But I see them and talk to them. One bought a new car. Credit is back up in the low 600s. The other just got back from a trip to Vegas. Life is carrying on quite normally for them. The one w/the new car succeeded in the short sale, now renting. They have a substantial amount of cash saved.

[jpinpb]

[quote=davelj]
It depends on how and over what time horizon you define “suffering.” I think most of these folks’ lives are much more difficult than it appears from the outside (as they should be). I don’t care now nonchalant someone may be, there’s a lot of stress related to the prospect of being forced out of your house and having your FICO go to 500, with all that entails.[/quote]

dave – do you personally know any of these people? I know of 2. Not real close, but I have been in social situations where I’ve seen them through other friends/acquaintances. They are not hiding the fact they have lived for free and as the article even states, they are not stressing about it.

They’ve confided in me when I asked them about it. If they are stressed, then they missed their calling and they should be in Hollywood. But that must be the new mentality I’m lacking. I would be so stressed. These folks are just taking it in stride.

No. In the end, I’m just not raised that way and I wouldn’t trade place. Maybe wish I could not be so conservative. But I see them and talk to them. One bought a new car. Credit is back up in the low 600s. The other just got back from a trip to Vegas. Life is carrying on quite normally for them. The one w/the new car succeeded in the short sale, now renting. They have a substantial amount of cash saved.

[jpinpb]

[quote=davelj]
It depends on how and over what time horizon you define “suffering.” I think most of these folks’ lives are much more difficult than it appears from the outside (as they should be). I don’t care now nonchalant someone may be, there’s a lot of stress related to the prospect of being forced out of your house and having your FICO go to 500, with all that entails.[/quote]

dave – do you personally know any of these people? I know of 2. Not real close, but I have been in social situations where I’ve seen them through other friends/acquaintances. They are not hiding the fact they have lived for free and as the article even states, they are not stressing about it.

They’ve confided in me when I asked them about it. If they are stressed, then they missed their calling and they should be in Hollywood. But that must be the new mentality I’m lacking. I would be so stressed. These folks are just taking it in stride.

No. In the end, I’m just not raised that way and I wouldn’t trade place. Maybe wish I could not be so conservative. But I see them and talk to them. One bought a new car. Credit is back up in the low 600s. The other just got back from a trip to Vegas. Life is carrying on quite normally for them. The one w/the new car succeeded in the short sale, now renting. They have a substantial amount of cash saved.

[jpinpb]

[quote=davelj]
It depends on how and over what time horizon you define “suffering.” I think most of these folks’ lives are much more difficult than it appears from the outside (as they should be). I don’t care now nonchalant someone may be, there’s a lot of stress related to the prospect of being forced out of your house and having your FICO go to 500, with all that entails.[/quote]

dave – do you personally know any of these people? I know of 2. Not real close, but I have been in social situations where I’ve seen them through other friends/acquaintances. They are not hiding the fact they have lived for free and as the article even states, they are not stressing about it.

They’ve confided in me when I asked them about it. If they are stressed, then they missed their calling and they should be in Hollywood. But that must be the new mentality I’m lacking. I would be so stressed. These folks are just taking it in stride.

No. In the end, I’m just not raised that way and I wouldn’t trade place. Maybe wish I could not be so conservative. But I see them and talk to them. One bought a new car. Credit is back up in the low 600s. The other just got back from a trip to Vegas. Life is carrying on quite normally for them. The one w/the new car succeeded in the short sale, now renting. They have a substantial amount of cash saved.

[jpinpb]

[quote=davelj]
It depends on how and over what time horizon you define “suffering.” I think most of these folks’ lives are much more difficult than it appears from the outside (as they should be). I don’t care now nonchalant someone may be, there’s a lot of stress related to the prospect of being forced out of your house and having your FICO go to 500, with all that entails.[/quote]

dave – do you personally know any of these people? I know of 2. Not real close, but I have been in social situations where I’ve seen them through other friends/acquaintances. They are not hiding the fact they have lived for free and as the article even states, they are not stressing about it.

They’ve confided in me when I asked them about it. If they are stressed, then they missed their calling and they should be in Hollywood. But that must be the new mentality I’m lacking. I would be so stressed. These folks are just taking it in stride.

No. In the end, I’m just not raised that way and I wouldn’t trade place. Maybe wish I could not be so conservative. But I see them and talk to them. One bought a new car. Credit is back up in the low 600s. The other just got back from a trip to Vegas. Life is carrying on quite normally for them. The one w/the new car succeeded in the short sale, now renting. They have a substantial amount of cash saved.

[scaredyclassic]

this isn’t about who is smarter or whether being smarter will pay off in the long run. I happen to be really really smart (testing-wise) but it definitely hasn’t paid off for me and so I put little value on whether we think we’re “smarter” than people who took wild chances

This should only be a financial accounting issue, assuming zero stress, since the stresses and uncertainty are going to vary and be unique for everyone.

Clearly, I think we’d all agree that if you got to live in the house 25 years rent free, then had a minor ding on your credit, it would definitely be a good financial move to have defaulted. Maybe immoral, ok, but financially rational, and I would personally be envious of anyone who got 25 years free rent.

Probably 15, 10 and 7, years too.

My point is, there’s a number of free months rent that makes it worth it for everyone on this board to default. It’s just a question of what your number is. And regardless of your morality of sticking the tab on the taxpayer, if it were a life estate, you’d probably take it, even if you say you wouldn’t. People generally don’t turn down free stuff of significant value.

Getting down to the 2-3 year range of free rent, it’s a little sketchier. If at the end of the free rent period, you personally come to the conclusion that the game is rigged and that owning a house is overrated, you probably don’t care about your credit anymore and have a good nest egg built up compared to the frugal renter. you win!

Fot the guy who is judgment proof, who heloc’ed and lived it up, well, who else was lining up to finance a few extra hundred thousand in lifestyle for him, plus a free rental at the tail end of his spending binge, other than mortgage lenders? hard to say he’s a loser either. Say he got 400,000 in heloc money and 100000 in free rent. even if it’s unwitting, it’s difficult to say he was an idiot.

You can save like crazy your whole life but you may never accrue a cash pile of the half million or so of “extra consumption” he got. Sure the timing of the consumption may be different, but are you “better” off? probably not mathematically.

Sure he may have done it unwittingly, or in an ‘unsophisticated” manner, but in some sense, he’s “ahead” in terms of wealth, at least to the current date.

If neither he nor you ever make any money on a house in the future, he wins, kind of, assuming the goal is consumption (which is kinda what money’s all about, isn’t it, since you cannot take it with you). I mean, who wants to be smart or sophisticated? People want to come out ahead financially, within their ethical boundaries.

personally, the stress and uncertainty would ahve bene overwhelming for me, and I couldn’t play this game.

but…it seems dumb for davelj to say “well why not do it now?”. D’uh!!!! — it’s too late to get scads of free heloc money, and the free rent train will likely be ending, given that prices are lower and your ability to hold the bank hostage decrease in proportion to the ridiculousness of the price you paid for your house.

The advantages of running with the herd in the thick of the speculative madness are probably running out now as the herd gets thinner.

But is it unreasonable to think that, had one known the future outcome back in 2003 say, that you might not have partied like crazy for 3 years and left the tab on the taxpayer? depending on your life options, tolerance for risk, need for future credit, not irrational…

[scaredyclassic]

this isn’t about who is smarter or whether being smarter will pay off in the long run. I happen to be really really smart (testing-wise) but it definitely hasn’t paid off for me and so I put little value on whether we think we’re “smarter” than people who took wild chances

This should only be a financial accounting issue, assuming zero stress, since the stresses and uncertainty are going to vary and be unique for everyone.

Clearly, I think we’d all agree that if you got to live in the house 25 years rent free, then had a minor ding on your credit, it would definitely be a good financial move to have defaulted. Maybe immoral, ok, but financially rational, and I would personally be envious of anyone who got 25 years free rent.

Probably 15, 10 and 7, years too.

My point is, there’s a number of free months rent that makes it worth it for everyone on this board to default. It’s just a question of what your number is. And regardless of your morality of sticking the tab on the taxpayer, if it were a life estate, you’d probably take it, even if you say you wouldn’t. People generally don’t turn down free stuff of significant value.

Getting down to the 2-3 year range of free rent, it’s a little sketchier. If at the end of the free rent period, you personally come to the conclusion that the game is rigged and that owning a house is overrated, you probably don’t care about your credit anymore and have a good nest egg built up compared to the frugal renter. you win!

Fot the guy who is judgment proof, who heloc’ed and lived it up, well, who else was lining up to finance a few extra hundred thousand in lifestyle for him, plus a free rental at the tail end of his spending binge, other than mortgage lenders? hard to say he’s a loser either. Say he got 400,000 in heloc money and 100000 in free rent. even if it’s unwitting, it’s difficult to say he was an idiot.

You can save like crazy your whole life but you may never accrue a cash pile of the half million or so of “extra consumption” he got. Sure the timing of the consumption may be different, but are you “better” off? probably not mathematically.

Sure he may have done it unwittingly, or in an ‘unsophisticated” manner, but in some sense, he’s “ahead” in terms of wealth, at least to the current date.

If neither he nor you ever make any money on a house in the future, he wins, kind of, assuming the goal is consumption (which is kinda what money’s all about, isn’t it, since you cannot take it with you). I mean, who wants to be smart or sophisticated? People want to come out ahead financially, within their ethical boundaries.

personally, the stress and uncertainty would ahve bene overwhelming for me, and I couldn’t play this game.

but…it seems dumb for davelj to say “well why not do it now?”. D’uh!!!! — it’s too late to get scads of free heloc money, and the free rent train will likely be ending, given that prices are lower and your ability to hold the bank hostage decrease in proportion to the ridiculousness of the price you paid for your house.

The advantages of running with the herd in the thick of the speculative madness are probably running out now as the herd gets thinner.

But is it unreasonable to think that, had one known the future outcome back in 2003 say, that you might not have partied like crazy for 3 years and left the tab on the taxpayer? depending on your life options, tolerance for risk, need for future credit, not irrational…

[scaredyclassic]

this isn’t about who is smarter or whether being smarter will pay off in the long run. I happen to be really really smart (testing-wise) but it definitely hasn’t paid off for me and so I put little value on whether we think we’re “smarter” than people who took wild chances

This should only be a financial accounting issue, assuming zero stress, since the stresses and uncertainty are going to vary and be unique for everyone.

Clearly, I think we’d all agree that if you got to live in the house 25 years rent free, then had a minor ding on your credit, it would definitely be a good financial move to have defaulted. Maybe immoral, ok, but financially rational, and I would personally be envious of anyone who got 25 years free rent.

Probably 15, 10 and 7, years too.

My point is, there’s a number of free months rent that makes it worth it for everyone on this board to default. It’s just a question of what your number is. And regardless of your morality of sticking the tab on the taxpayer, if it were a life estate, you’d probably take it, even if you say you wouldn’t. People generally don’t turn down free stuff of significant value.

Getting down to the 2-3 year range of free rent, it’s a little sketchier. If at the end of the free rent period, you personally come to the conclusion that the game is rigged and that owning a house is overrated, you probably don’t care about your credit anymore and have a good nest egg built up compared to the frugal renter. you win!

Fot the guy who is judgment proof, who heloc’ed and lived it up, well, who else was lining up to finance a few extra hundred thousand in lifestyle for him, plus a free rental at the tail end of his spending binge, other than mortgage lenders? hard to say he’s a loser either. Say he got 400,000 in heloc money and 100000 in free rent. even if it’s unwitting, it’s difficult to say he was an idiot.

You can save like crazy your whole life but you may never accrue a cash pile of the half million or so of “extra consumption” he got. Sure the timing of the consumption may be different, but are you “better” off? probably not mathematically.

Sure he may have done it unwittingly, or in an ‘unsophisticated” manner, but in some sense, he’s “ahead” in terms of wealth, at least to the current date.

If neither he nor you ever make any money on a house in the future, he wins, kind of, assuming the goal is consumption (which is kinda what money’s all about, isn’t it, since you cannot take it with you). I mean, who wants to be smart or sophisticated? People want to come out ahead financially, within their ethical boundaries.

personally, the stress and uncertainty would ahve bene overwhelming for me, and I couldn’t play this game.

but…it seems dumb for davelj to say “well why not do it now?”. D’uh!!!! — it’s too late to get scads of free heloc money, and the free rent train will likely be ending, given that prices are lower and your ability to hold the bank hostage decrease in proportion to the ridiculousness of the price you paid for your house.

The advantages of running with the herd in the thick of the speculative madness are probably running out now as the herd gets thinner.

But is it unreasonable to think that, had one known the future outcome back in 2003 say, that you might not have partied like crazy for 3 years and left the tab on the taxpayer? depending on your life options, tolerance for risk, need for future credit, not irrational…

[scaredyclassic]

this isn’t about who is smarter or whether being smarter will pay off in the long run. I happen to be really really smart (testing-wise) but it definitely hasn’t paid off for me and so I put little value on whether we think we’re “smarter” than people who took wild chances

This should only be a financial accounting issue, assuming zero stress, since the stresses and uncertainty are going to vary and be unique for everyone.

Clearly, I think we’d all agree that if you got to live in the house 25 years rent free, then had a minor ding on your credit, it would definitely be a good financial move to have defaulted. Maybe immoral, ok, but financially rational, and I would personally be envious of anyone who got 25 years free rent.

Probably 15, 10 and 7, years too.

My point is, there’s a number of free months rent that makes it worth it for everyone on this board to default. It’s just a question of what your number is. And regardless of your morality of sticking the tab on the taxpayer, if it were a life estate, you’d probably take it, even if you say you wouldn’t. People generally don’t turn down free stuff of significant value.

Getting down to the 2-3 year range of free rent, it’s a little sketchier. If at the end of the free rent period, you personally come to the conclusion that the game is rigged and that owning a house is overrated, you probably don’t care about your credit anymore and have a good nest egg built up compared to the frugal renter. you win!

Fot the guy who is judgment proof, who heloc’ed and lived it up, well, who else was lining up to finance a few extra hundred thousand in lifestyle for him, plus a free rental at the tail end of his spending binge, other than mortgage lenders? hard to say he’s a loser either. Say he got 400,000 in heloc money and 100000 in free rent. even if it’s unwitting, it’s difficult to say he was an idiot.

You can save like crazy your whole life but you may never accrue a cash pile of the half million or so of “extra consumption” he got. Sure the timing of the consumption may be different, but are you “better” off? probably not mathematically.

Sure he may have done it unwittingly, or in an ‘unsophisticated” manner, but in some sense, he’s “ahead” in terms of wealth, at least to the current date.

If neither he nor you ever make any money on a house in the future, he wins, kind of, assuming the goal is consumption (which is kinda what money’s all about, isn’t it, since you cannot take it with you). I mean, who wants to be smart or sophisticated? People want to come out ahead financially, within their ethical boundaries.

personally, the stress and uncertainty would ahve bene overwhelming for me, and I couldn’t play this game.

but…it seems dumb for davelj to say “well why not do it now?”. D’uh!!!! — it’s too late to get scads of free heloc money, and the free rent train will likely be ending, given that prices are lower and your ability to hold the bank hostage decrease in proportion to the ridiculousness of the price you paid for your house.

The advantages of running with the herd in the thick of the speculative madness are probably running out now as the herd gets thinner.

But is it unreasonable to think that, had one known the future outcome back in 2003 say, that you might not have partied like crazy for 3 years and left the tab on the taxpayer? depending on your life options, tolerance for risk, need for future credit, not irrational…

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