Founder Of Reaganomics Says That “Without A Revolution, Americans Are History”

[CA renter]

[quote=enron_by_the_sea][quote=CA renter]
We need to enact tariffs to offset the profit margins gained by exploiting cheap labor around the world. Otherwise, it is a race to the bottom, which should be clear to everyone by now (but for some reason, too many people refuse to see it!).[/quote]

Wow! Some historical perspective is in order.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoot%E2%80%93Hawley_Tariff_Act

Smoot–Hawley Tariff Act

“The main goal was to protect American jobs and farmers from foreign competition, especially after the global economy entered the first stages of the Great Depression in late 1929. ”

—snip—

” Threats of retaliation began long before the bill was enacted into law in June 1930. As it passed the House of Representatives in May 1929, boycotts broke out and foreign governments moved to increase rates against American products, even though rates could be increased or decreased by the Senate or by the conference committee. By September 1929, Hoover’s administration had received protest notes from 23 trading partners, but threats of retaliatory actions were ignored.”

“In May 1930, the greatest trading partner, Canada, retaliated by imposing new tariffs on 16 products that accounted altogether for around 30% of U.S. exports to Canada. Canada later also forged closer economic links with the British Commonwealth. France and Britain protested and developed new trade partners. Germany developed a system of autarky.”

“Both Reed Smoot and Willis Hawley were defeated for reelection in 1932, the controversial tariff being a major factor in their respective losses.”

Do we need to risk this again? Surely there are easier ways to fix our problems than that….[/quote]

From my post above:

We are a debtor nation and a net importer now. Protectionism would hurt other countries far more than it would hurt ours. I favor *fair trade* where we trade with other countries that have the same labor and environmental protections (and wages) that we do.

—————

No, I don’t mind the least bit if we stopped importing inferior goods from countries where a lack of environmental protection standards and an abundance of cheap (slave) labor are exploited.

The only things we should be importing are things that we cannot reasonably produce here, IMHO.

[briansd1]

[quote=drboom]
None too soon: good riddance to Stepford, I say.
[/quote]

drboom, I believe that you’ve got it right.

[quote=Jim Jones]
Brian,

I don’t want to question your patriotism but this argument is counter to our national objectives and in IMHO the reason why we are in fact an independent nation in the first place. Would you subject your own children and grandchildren to a lifetime of poverty and serfdom to further global utilitarianism? [/quote]

Jim, all of us on Earth are God’s children.

If we cared about long term national security, we’d live more modestly, save our money and lend it to poor nations so that they can develop. Had we done that decades ago, we’d now own the world instead of the other way around.

Poor nations lending their money to America so we can consume more is lopsided and simply not sustainable.

There is nothing wrong with living modestly in a small house or apartment.

Instead we, as a nation, are buying McMansions on shoestring budgets. We buy houses with zero down, interest only. We lease cars for $299 a month. And we buy home appliances on installment plans.

I wonder who’s really frittering our national security away.

[briansd1]

[quote=drboom]
None too soon: good riddance to Stepford, I say.
[/quote]

drboom, I believe that you’ve got it right.

[quote=Jim Jones]
Brian,

I don’t want to question your patriotism but this argument is counter to our national objectives and in IMHO the reason why we are in fact an independent nation in the first place. Would you subject your own children and grandchildren to a lifetime of poverty and serfdom to further global utilitarianism? [/quote]

Jim, all of us on Earth are God’s children.

If we cared about long term national security, we’d live more modestly, save our money and lend it to poor nations so that they can develop. Had we done that decades ago, we’d now own the world instead of the other way around.

Poor nations lending their money to America so we can consume more is lopsided and simply not sustainable.

There is nothing wrong with living modestly in a small house or apartment.

Instead we, as a nation, are buying McMansions on shoestring budgets. We buy houses with zero down, interest only. We lease cars for $299 a month. And we buy home appliances on installment plans.

I wonder who’s really frittering our national security away.

[briansd1]

[quote=drboom]
None too soon: good riddance to Stepford, I say.
[/quote]

drboom, I believe that you’ve got it right.

[quote=Jim Jones]
Brian,

I don’t want to question your patriotism but this argument is counter to our national objectives and in IMHO the reason why we are in fact an independent nation in the first place. Would you subject your own children and grandchildren to a lifetime of poverty and serfdom to further global utilitarianism? [/quote]

Jim, all of us on Earth are God’s children.

If we cared about long term national security, we’d live more modestly, save our money and lend it to poor nations so that they can develop. Had we done that decades ago, we’d now own the world instead of the other way around.

Poor nations lending their money to America so we can consume more is lopsided and simply not sustainable.

There is nothing wrong with living modestly in a small house or apartment.

Instead we, as a nation, are buying McMansions on shoestring budgets. We buy houses with zero down, interest only. We lease cars for $299 a month. And we buy home appliances on installment plans.

I wonder who’s really frittering our national security away.

[briansd1]

[quote=drboom]
None too soon: good riddance to Stepford, I say.
[/quote]

drboom, I believe that you’ve got it right.

[quote=Jim Jones]
Brian,

I don’t want to question your patriotism but this argument is counter to our national objectives and in IMHO the reason why we are in fact an independent nation in the first place. Would you subject your own children and grandchildren to a lifetime of poverty and serfdom to further global utilitarianism? [/quote]

Jim, all of us on Earth are God’s children.

If we cared about long term national security, we’d live more modestly, save our money and lend it to poor nations so that they can develop. Had we done that decades ago, we’d now own the world instead of the other way around.

Poor nations lending their money to America so we can consume more is lopsided and simply not sustainable.

There is nothing wrong with living modestly in a small house or apartment.

Instead we, as a nation, are buying McMansions on shoestring budgets. We buy houses with zero down, interest only. We lease cars for $299 a month. And we buy home appliances on installment plans.

I wonder who’s really frittering our national security away.

[briansd1]

[quote=drboom]
None too soon: good riddance to Stepford, I say.
[/quote]

drboom, I believe that you’ve got it right.

[quote=Jim Jones]
Brian,

I don’t want to question your patriotism but this argument is counter to our national objectives and in IMHO the reason why we are in fact an independent nation in the first place. Would you subject your own children and grandchildren to a lifetime of poverty and serfdom to further global utilitarianism? [/quote]

Jim, all of us on Earth are God’s children.

If we cared about long term national security, we’d live more modestly, save our money and lend it to poor nations so that they can develop. Had we done that decades ago, we’d now own the world instead of the other way around.

Poor nations lending their money to America so we can consume more is lopsided and simply not sustainable.

There is nothing wrong with living modestly in a small house or apartment.

Instead we, as a nation, are buying McMansions on shoestring budgets. We buy houses with zero down, interest only. We lease cars for $299 a month. And we buy home appliances on installment plans.

I wonder who’s really frittering our national security away.

[davelj]

[quote=Jim Jones]

Would you subject your own children and grandchildren to a lifetime of poverty and serfdom to further global utilitarianism? If you are I would like to hear you own your previous statement rather than waxing poetically about the future of this nation.[/quote]

The march toward global utilitarianism is going to continue regardless of how hard folks try to fight it. One more good reason not to procreate if you’re concerned about your progeny’s ability to compete (and maintain a high standard of living) in a global economy. But, hey, money (re: creature comforts) isn’t everything, so what’s the big deal, right?

[davelj]

[quote=Jim Jones]

Would you subject your own children and grandchildren to a lifetime of poverty and serfdom to further global utilitarianism? If you are I would like to hear you own your previous statement rather than waxing poetically about the future of this nation.[/quote]

The march toward global utilitarianism is going to continue regardless of how hard folks try to fight it. One more good reason not to procreate if you’re concerned about your progeny’s ability to compete (and maintain a high standard of living) in a global economy. But, hey, money (re: creature comforts) isn’t everything, so what’s the big deal, right?

[davelj]

[quote=Jim Jones]

Would you subject your own children and grandchildren to a lifetime of poverty and serfdom to further global utilitarianism? If you are I would like to hear you own your previous statement rather than waxing poetically about the future of this nation.[/quote]

The march toward global utilitarianism is going to continue regardless of how hard folks try to fight it. One more good reason not to procreate if you’re concerned about your progeny’s ability to compete (and maintain a high standard of living) in a global economy. But, hey, money (re: creature comforts) isn’t everything, so what’s the big deal, right?

[davelj]

[quote=Jim Jones]

Would you subject your own children and grandchildren to a lifetime of poverty and serfdom to further global utilitarianism? If you are I would like to hear you own your previous statement rather than waxing poetically about the future of this nation.[/quote]

The march toward global utilitarianism is going to continue regardless of how hard folks try to fight it. One more good reason not to procreate if you’re concerned about your progeny’s ability to compete (and maintain a high standard of living) in a global economy. But, hey, money (re: creature comforts) isn’t everything, so what’s the big deal, right?

[davelj]

[quote=Jim Jones]

Would you subject your own children and grandchildren to a lifetime of poverty and serfdom to further global utilitarianism? If you are I would like to hear you own your previous statement rather than waxing poetically about the future of this nation.[/quote]

The march toward global utilitarianism is going to continue regardless of how hard folks try to fight it. One more good reason not to procreate if you’re concerned about your progeny’s ability to compete (and maintain a high standard of living) in a global economy. But, hey, money (re: creature comforts) isn’t everything, so what’s the big deal, right?

[enron_by_the_sea]

[quote=CA renter][quote=enron_by_the_sea]

No, I don’t mind the least bit if we stopped importing inferior goods from countries where a lack of environmental protection standards and an abundance of cheap (slave) labor are exploited.

The only things we should be importing are things that we cannot reasonably produce here, IMHO.[/quote]

Maybe you are forgetting that while we import a lot of things (and crap) we also export a lot of things. There are a lot of people in this country who make their living working in places that export goods: Things like computers, software, microchips, aircraft, cellphones, agriculture, oil & gas technology, movies, media, telecomm equipment, branded consumer goods, high-end machninary, drugs, medical devices and things like that.

Maybe you think that any pain to them is trivial or you think that other countries will import their stuff anyway. Or you are proposing that they stop doing that and start making overpriced toys in a unionized shop (because that is all that we will hope be able to do, once great depression II sets in, after this trade war begins)

[enron_by_the_sea]

[quote=CA renter][quote=enron_by_the_sea]

No, I don’t mind the least bit if we stopped importing inferior goods from countries where a lack of environmental protection standards and an abundance of cheap (slave) labor are exploited.

The only things we should be importing are things that we cannot reasonably produce here, IMHO.[/quote]

Maybe you are forgetting that while we import a lot of things (and crap) we also export a lot of things. There are a lot of people in this country who make their living working in places that export goods: Things like computers, software, microchips, aircraft, cellphones, agriculture, oil & gas technology, movies, media, telecomm equipment, branded consumer goods, high-end machninary, drugs, medical devices and things like that.

Maybe you think that any pain to them is trivial or you think that other countries will import their stuff anyway. Or you are proposing that they stop doing that and start making overpriced toys in a unionized shop (because that is all that we will hope be able to do, once great depression II sets in, after this trade war begins)

[enron_by_the_sea]

[quote=CA renter][quote=enron_by_the_sea]

No, I don’t mind the least bit if we stopped importing inferior goods from countries where a lack of environmental protection standards and an abundance of cheap (slave) labor are exploited.

The only things we should be importing are things that we cannot reasonably produce here, IMHO.[/quote]

Maybe you are forgetting that while we import a lot of things (and crap) we also export a lot of things. There are a lot of people in this country who make their living working in places that export goods: Things like computers, software, microchips, aircraft, cellphones, agriculture, oil & gas technology, movies, media, telecomm equipment, branded consumer goods, high-end machninary, drugs, medical devices and things like that.

Maybe you think that any pain to them is trivial or you think that other countries will import their stuff anyway. Or you are proposing that they stop doing that and start making overpriced toys in a unionized shop (because that is all that we will hope be able to do, once great depression II sets in, after this trade war begins)

[enron_by_the_sea]

[quote=CA renter][quote=enron_by_the_sea]

No, I don’t mind the least bit if we stopped importing inferior goods from countries where a lack of environmental protection standards and an abundance of cheap (slave) labor are exploited.

The only things we should be importing are things that we cannot reasonably produce here, IMHO.[/quote]

Maybe you are forgetting that while we import a lot of things (and crap) we also export a lot of things. There are a lot of people in this country who make their living working in places that export goods: Things like computers, software, microchips, aircraft, cellphones, agriculture, oil & gas technology, movies, media, telecomm equipment, branded consumer goods, high-end machninary, drugs, medical devices and things like that.

Maybe you think that any pain to them is trivial or you think that other countries will import their stuff anyway. Or you are proposing that they stop doing that and start making overpriced toys in a unionized shop (because that is all that we will hope be able to do, once great depression II sets in, after this trade war begins)

[Author]

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