fixation on school districts

[XBoxBoy]

[quote=Rich Toscano] is going to one non-stabby school district vs. a slightly better non-stabby school district really going to make that big a difference in your kid’s career? [/quote]

So, I’m gonna guess that you don’t have any kids. ‘Cause this strange thing happens to people when they have kids. They suddenly start to think in all kinds of totally irrational ways, like… “I’ve got to get the very absolutely best that there is. Absolutely no compromising due to cost or anything else. My kid deserves the absolute best, top shelf, nothing else will do.”

The other reason of course is that most people have little financial reasoning ability to start with, and the idea of actually weighing the cost/benefits is beyond them. How else do you explain $150 jeans? I guess if you’re single and desperately trying to find a rich spouse, you could maybe justify that from a financial sense, but even there it seems a bit of a stretch to me.

[quote=Rich Toscano]Put another way I think the fact of the matter for better or worse is that the most important stuff is learned outside of school. Given this I have a hard time understanding how it will meaningfully impact a child’s life to go to one school over another just because one is slightly better based on some score.[/quote]

Of course this same argument could be used to question why people pay for ivy league colleges. But we’ve all heard of studies that show how much more money you make going to Harvard law or some such infamous place. Of course the fact that just getting into harvard law school is probably the better predictor, and completion of the degree is irrelevant.

[quote=Rich Toscano]Don’t people think that the schools are just gaming things to get a high score, as always happens in a bureaucratic system in which results are reduced to a numerical value?[/quote]

Yes of course the teachers are doing all they can to game the system. And they are doing it with the help of the administrators, politicians and the parents. Sorta like the loan business gaming all the loans with the help of the loan brokers, real estate agents, wall street banks, etc. It’s just good for everyone to cheat on those no doc loans. (See this is a thread about real estate!)

XBoxBoy

[CA renter]

Esmith makes some very good points.

My personal observations — having worked in both high-performing and low-performing schools — are that the lower-performing schools actually have better, more dedicated teachers. API scores are a better indication of the neighborhood demographics than they are of actual school/teacher quality.

It is a fact, though not “PC,” that higher-IQ parents tend to have children with similar IQs. Higher IQs are usually correlated with greater incomes (BTW, you will also find many criminals and mentally/socially disturbed people who have exceedingly high IQs, so it’s not always a good thing).

Most parents want their children to live in safe, clean, comfortable neighborhoods with people who share the same values. Those with higher IQs and incomes will likely choose the best locations, and you’ll see that the high-scoring schools just happen to be in neighborhoods where a disproportionate number of people have higher IQs, college degrees, and incomes.

IOW, it’s not the schools, but the neighborhoods that people are paying a premium for. The API scores are a good indication that the surrounding areas will be safe, clean and full of people who value education, and don’t do drugs, don’t engage in violent acts, etc.

[CA renter]

Esmith makes some very good points.

My personal observations — having worked in both high-performing and low-performing schools — are that the lower-performing schools actually have better, more dedicated teachers. API scores are a better indication of the neighborhood demographics than they are of actual school/teacher quality.

It is a fact, though not “PC,” that higher-IQ parents tend to have children with similar IQs. Higher IQs are usually correlated with greater incomes (BTW, you will also find many criminals and mentally/socially disturbed people who have exceedingly high IQs, so it’s not always a good thing).

Most parents want their children to live in safe, clean, comfortable neighborhoods with people who share the same values. Those with higher IQs and incomes will likely choose the best locations, and you’ll see that the high-scoring schools just happen to be in neighborhoods where a disproportionate number of people have higher IQs, college degrees, and incomes.

IOW, it’s not the schools, but the neighborhoods that people are paying a premium for. The API scores are a good indication that the surrounding areas will be safe, clean and full of people who value education, and don’t do drugs, don’t engage in violent acts, etc.

[CA renter]

Esmith makes some very good points.

My personal observations — having worked in both high-performing and low-performing schools — are that the lower-performing schools actually have better, more dedicated teachers. API scores are a better indication of the neighborhood demographics than they are of actual school/teacher quality.

It is a fact, though not “PC,” that higher-IQ parents tend to have children with similar IQs. Higher IQs are usually correlated with greater incomes (BTW, you will also find many criminals and mentally/socially disturbed people who have exceedingly high IQs, so it’s not always a good thing).

Most parents want their children to live in safe, clean, comfortable neighborhoods with people who share the same values. Those with higher IQs and incomes will likely choose the best locations, and you’ll see that the high-scoring schools just happen to be in neighborhoods where a disproportionate number of people have higher IQs, college degrees, and incomes.

IOW, it’s not the schools, but the neighborhoods that people are paying a premium for. The API scores are a good indication that the surrounding areas will be safe, clean and full of people who value education, and don’t do drugs, don’t engage in violent acts, etc.

[CA renter]

Esmith makes some very good points.

My personal observations — having worked in both high-performing and low-performing schools — are that the lower-performing schools actually have better, more dedicated teachers. API scores are a better indication of the neighborhood demographics than they are of actual school/teacher quality.

It is a fact, though not “PC,” that higher-IQ parents tend to have children with similar IQs. Higher IQs are usually correlated with greater incomes (BTW, you will also find many criminals and mentally/socially disturbed people who have exceedingly high IQs, so it’s not always a good thing).

Most parents want their children to live in safe, clean, comfortable neighborhoods with people who share the same values. Those with higher IQs and incomes will likely choose the best locations, and you’ll see that the high-scoring schools just happen to be in neighborhoods where a disproportionate number of people have higher IQs, college degrees, and incomes.

IOW, it’s not the schools, but the neighborhoods that people are paying a premium for. The API scores are a good indication that the surrounding areas will be safe, clean and full of people who value education, and don’t do drugs, don’t engage in violent acts, etc.

[CA renter]

Esmith makes some very good points.

My personal observations — having worked in both high-performing and low-performing schools — are that the lower-performing schools actually have better, more dedicated teachers. API scores are a better indication of the neighborhood demographics than they are of actual school/teacher quality.

It is a fact, though not “PC,” that higher-IQ parents tend to have children with similar IQs. Higher IQs are usually correlated with greater incomes (BTW, you will also find many criminals and mentally/socially disturbed people who have exceedingly high IQs, so it’s not always a good thing).

Most parents want their children to live in safe, clean, comfortable neighborhoods with people who share the same values. Those with higher IQs and incomes will likely choose the best locations, and you’ll see that the high-scoring schools just happen to be in neighborhoods where a disproportionate number of people have higher IQs, college degrees, and incomes.

IOW, it’s not the schools, but the neighborhoods that people are paying a premium for. The API scores are a good indication that the surrounding areas will be safe, clean and full of people who value education, and don’t do drugs, don’t engage in violent acts, etc.

[Eugene]

Exactly. Look at 10 highest rated elementary schools in the county. Four in Carmel Valley, two in La Jolla, one in Del Mar, one in Rancho Santa Fe, one in Poway (Sabre Springs), one in San Diego (Santaluz). Do people pay more money to live in La Jolla and Rancho Santa Fe because schools are good, or vice versa?

(BTW, you will also find many criminals and mentally/socially disturbed people who have exceedingly high IQs, so it’s not always a good thing).

but your chance to end up in prison is much higher if you’re above 120 than if you’re below 80.

[Eugene]

Exactly. Look at 10 highest rated elementary schools in the county. Four in Carmel Valley, two in La Jolla, one in Del Mar, one in Rancho Santa Fe, one in Poway (Sabre Springs), one in San Diego (Santaluz). Do people pay more money to live in La Jolla and Rancho Santa Fe because schools are good, or vice versa?

(BTW, you will also find many criminals and mentally/socially disturbed people who have exceedingly high IQs, so it’s not always a good thing).

but your chance to end up in prison is much higher if you’re above 120 than if you’re below 80.

[Eugene]

Exactly. Look at 10 highest rated elementary schools in the county. Four in Carmel Valley, two in La Jolla, one in Del Mar, one in Rancho Santa Fe, one in Poway (Sabre Springs), one in San Diego (Santaluz). Do people pay more money to live in La Jolla and Rancho Santa Fe because schools are good, or vice versa?

(BTW, you will also find many criminals and mentally/socially disturbed people who have exceedingly high IQs, so it’s not always a good thing).

but your chance to end up in prison is much higher if you’re above 120 than if you’re below 80.

[Eugene]

Exactly. Look at 10 highest rated elementary schools in the county. Four in Carmel Valley, two in La Jolla, one in Del Mar, one in Rancho Santa Fe, one in Poway (Sabre Springs), one in San Diego (Santaluz). Do people pay more money to live in La Jolla and Rancho Santa Fe because schools are good, or vice versa?

(BTW, you will also find many criminals and mentally/socially disturbed people who have exceedingly high IQs, so it’s not always a good thing).

but your chance to end up in prison is much higher if you’re above 120 than if you’re below 80.

[Eugene]

Exactly. Look at 10 highest rated elementary schools in the county. Four in Carmel Valley, two in La Jolla, one in Del Mar, one in Rancho Santa Fe, one in Poway (Sabre Springs), one in San Diego (Santaluz). Do people pay more money to live in La Jolla and Rancho Santa Fe because schools are good, or vice versa?

(BTW, you will also find many criminals and mentally/socially disturbed people who have exceedingly high IQs, so it’s not always a good thing).

but your chance to end up in prison is much higher if you’re above 120 than if you’re below 80.

[temeculaguy]

I’ll bust an HBO, The Wire quote, “It’s all connected.” Determining the API of the three schools (elem, middle, high) for a particular house is very relevent, especially for those who aren’t familiar with the underbelly of a particular area. If the elementary and middle school scores are high but the high school scores fall significantly, it reveals that a lower class neighborhood is nearby. This pulls values down for R/E and increases other problems not just for selling but for living there. Most people visit just the neigborhood they are interested in but fail to realize they share a grocery store, park, high school or other things with people they would rather not be near, nor will the eventual buyer of that property when they choose to sell.

Spare me the diversity comments and anectodtal stories, just look at it from a purely financial perspective because that is all I am pointing to. Race isn’t relevent here, demographics are. Show me a elem, mid and high school boundary with no apartments and the API will be high, thus the property values will be also, even for people with no kids. It’s about not being near poor and uneducated people when buying real estate and API is an indicator, not the only one but a fairly reliable one. Look further into the state’s api reporting and you can see the percentage of free lunch kids, english learners and education level of the parents. That always translates into API scores and that is relevent in valuing real estate. If you do nothing else other than buy in a trifecta of high api, you will be better off in maintainig value in your r/e. Just like people avoid or factor in mello roos when comparing properties, they factor in private school for houses in stabby school areas.

The drawback to this theory is it makes for mediocre h/s football teams at best. When I watch my son’s team lose and engage in conversation with fellow parents someone always comments that the other team appears larger. I remind them that if you send your kid to a school with a high api, a low “grub stub” percentage(read: free lunch) and a low english language leaner number, you lose games (these numbers are available from the state’s website). All of this hurts the football teams. While they may see different skin colors on the team, being a minority does not translate into football prowess when the minorities are rich and smart, they become as mediocre as the white boys, it’s just the way of things. So buy a house in the best school district you can afford, just be prepared to lose some football games. It won’t kill you.

[temeculaguy]

I’ll bust an HBO, The Wire quote, “It’s all connected.” Determining the API of the three schools (elem, middle, high) for a particular house is very relevent, especially for those who aren’t familiar with the underbelly of a particular area. If the elementary and middle school scores are high but the high school scores fall significantly, it reveals that a lower class neighborhood is nearby. This pulls values down for R/E and increases other problems not just for selling but for living there. Most people visit just the neigborhood they are interested in but fail to realize they share a grocery store, park, high school or other things with people they would rather not be near, nor will the eventual buyer of that property when they choose to sell.

Spare me the diversity comments and anectodtal stories, just look at it from a purely financial perspective because that is all I am pointing to. Race isn’t relevent here, demographics are. Show me a elem, mid and high school boundary with no apartments and the API will be high, thus the property values will be also, even for people with no kids. It’s about not being near poor and uneducated people when buying real estate and API is an indicator, not the only one but a fairly reliable one. Look further into the state’s api reporting and you can see the percentage of free lunch kids, english learners and education level of the parents. That always translates into API scores and that is relevent in valuing real estate. If you do nothing else other than buy in a trifecta of high api, you will be better off in maintainig value in your r/e. Just like people avoid or factor in mello roos when comparing properties, they factor in private school for houses in stabby school areas.

The drawback to this theory is it makes for mediocre h/s football teams at best. When I watch my son’s team lose and engage in conversation with fellow parents someone always comments that the other team appears larger. I remind them that if you send your kid to a school with a high api, a low “grub stub” percentage(read: free lunch) and a low english language leaner number, you lose games (these numbers are available from the state’s website). All of this hurts the football teams. While they may see different skin colors on the team, being a minority does not translate into football prowess when the minorities are rich and smart, they become as mediocre as the white boys, it’s just the way of things. So buy a house in the best school district you can afford, just be prepared to lose some football games. It won’t kill you.

[temeculaguy]

I’ll bust an HBO, The Wire quote, “It’s all connected.” Determining the API of the three schools (elem, middle, high) for a particular house is very relevent, especially for those who aren’t familiar with the underbelly of a particular area. If the elementary and middle school scores are high but the high school scores fall significantly, it reveals that a lower class neighborhood is nearby. This pulls values down for R/E and increases other problems not just for selling but for living there. Most people visit just the neigborhood they are interested in but fail to realize they share a grocery store, park, high school or other things with people they would rather not be near, nor will the eventual buyer of that property when they choose to sell.

Spare me the diversity comments and anectodtal stories, just look at it from a purely financial perspective because that is all I am pointing to. Race isn’t relevent here, demographics are. Show me a elem, mid and high school boundary with no apartments and the API will be high, thus the property values will be also, even for people with no kids. It’s about not being near poor and uneducated people when buying real estate and API is an indicator, not the only one but a fairly reliable one. Look further into the state’s api reporting and you can see the percentage of free lunch kids, english learners and education level of the parents. That always translates into API scores and that is relevent in valuing real estate. If you do nothing else other than buy in a trifecta of high api, you will be better off in maintainig value in your r/e. Just like people avoid or factor in mello roos when comparing properties, they factor in private school for houses in stabby school areas.

The drawback to this theory is it makes for mediocre h/s football teams at best. When I watch my son’s team lose and engage in conversation with fellow parents someone always comments that the other team appears larger. I remind them that if you send your kid to a school with a high api, a low “grub stub” percentage(read: free lunch) and a low english language leaner number, you lose games (these numbers are available from the state’s website). All of this hurts the football teams. While they may see different skin colors on the team, being a minority does not translate into football prowess when the minorities are rich and smart, they become as mediocre as the white boys, it’s just the way of things. So buy a house in the best school district you can afford, just be prepared to lose some football games. It won’t kill you.

[temeculaguy]

I’ll bust an HBO, The Wire quote, “It’s all connected.” Determining the API of the three schools (elem, middle, high) for a particular house is very relevent, especially for those who aren’t familiar with the underbelly of a particular area. If the elementary and middle school scores are high but the high school scores fall significantly, it reveals that a lower class neighborhood is nearby. This pulls values down for R/E and increases other problems not just for selling but for living there. Most people visit just the neigborhood they are interested in but fail to realize they share a grocery store, park, high school or other things with people they would rather not be near, nor will the eventual buyer of that property when they choose to sell.

Spare me the diversity comments and anectodtal stories, just look at it from a purely financial perspective because that is all I am pointing to. Race isn’t relevent here, demographics are. Show me a elem, mid and high school boundary with no apartments and the API will be high, thus the property values will be also, even for people with no kids. It’s about not being near poor and uneducated people when buying real estate and API is an indicator, not the only one but a fairly reliable one. Look further into the state’s api reporting and you can see the percentage of free lunch kids, english learners and education level of the parents. That always translates into API scores and that is relevent in valuing real estate. If you do nothing else other than buy in a trifecta of high api, you will be better off in maintainig value in your r/e. Just like people avoid or factor in mello roos when comparing properties, they factor in private school for houses in stabby school areas.

The drawback to this theory is it makes for mediocre h/s football teams at best. When I watch my son’s team lose and engage in conversation with fellow parents someone always comments that the other team appears larger. I remind them that if you send your kid to a school with a high api, a low “grub stub” percentage(read: free lunch) and a low english language leaner number, you lose games (these numbers are available from the state’s website). All of this hurts the football teams. While they may see different skin colors on the team, being a minority does not translate into football prowess when the minorities are rich and smart, they become as mediocre as the white boys, it’s just the way of things. So buy a house in the best school district you can afford, just be prepared to lose some football games. It won’t kill you.

[Author]

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