fixation on school districts

[temeculaguy]

I think goldfish best represents what I was trying to point out earlier. Let go of your personal feeling about schools and just understand that API is not about teachers or schools, they have no magic tricks to teach, they have better students. Not smarter students but kids from more educated parents, so their vocabulary benefits by osmosis and the values instilled are different.

API doesn’t mean the school is better, it means the neigborhood is.

Cardiff, Texas football is an entirely different animal and in no way can my theory be extended to include Texas. It is one of the few places in the world where a town’s identity and pride is directly tied to it’s high school team, more so than professional or college teams. It is also probably the only thing I envy about Texas but I don’t think that phenomena will spread here, it’s a Texas thing.

[CBad]

Thanks for posting this topic because it has always been a question of mine as well. Just curious how many of you have seen these standardized STAR tests? If you have, you’ll know that there are schools that specifically teach to this test. I think that’s why you see particular schools even in the less than desirable areas that have good test scores. I’ve known of schools who carve out X amount of weeks specifically coaching for this test. And if you’ve seen it you’d also know that it’s not a true measure of intelligence or even accurately portrays all the knowledge the student has in these subjects. (Full disclosure, my kids kick butt on these tests, so it’s not like I’m biased because they scored low). I honestly think the test scores reflect as others have said demographics and test preparation more than anything. Anyone who said they are tied to IQ scores obviously hasn’t seen it. They do not measure intelligence potential. And the reason for test scores getting better is that they are coming up with better ways to cram for it.

So overall, I think it’s very odd that this test score is all anyone ever focuses on. I guess it’s the only concrete number there is. I don’t think it’s odd that parents want to put their children in a good school district but all they care about is that one number! Parts of the test are a total joke (like some wording on the spelling portions saying things like ‘which word is NOT spelled incorrectly’, the phrasing on questions, the subjects for reading) and I seriously have to question the creators of it. And of course like all public school curricula, they have to use ethnic subjects and names for absolutely no reason and just end up distracting the majority of students. It’s never John Smith who is hard working, has a rich heritage, and volunteers in a charity.

[quote=Rich Toscano]But my K-12 education experience basically consisted of me being taught mostly kind of useless stuff, and me just later learning all the useful stuff on my own.[/quote]

I have to ditto this. Basically almost everything I feel I learned K-12 was self taught and the school just provided the materials. Children need to have strong reading and math skills early on and then the rest falls into place as long as they still have a natural desire to learn. Spending weeks on test preparation is one sure way of killing that desire.

I see this obsession over schools as just an extension of the general obsession parents today have over everything in their children’s lives. Then they wonder why they have adult children who are totally dependent on them later on.

[CBad]

Thanks for posting this topic because it has always been a question of mine as well. Just curious how many of you have seen these standardized STAR tests? If you have, you’ll know that there are schools that specifically teach to this test. I think that’s why you see particular schools even in the less than desirable areas that have good test scores. I’ve known of schools who carve out X amount of weeks specifically coaching for this test. And if you’ve seen it you’d also know that it’s not a true measure of intelligence or even accurately portrays all the knowledge the student has in these subjects. (Full disclosure, my kids kick butt on these tests, so it’s not like I’m biased because they scored low). I honestly think the test scores reflect as others have said demographics and test preparation more than anything. Anyone who said they are tied to IQ scores obviously hasn’t seen it. They do not measure intelligence potential. And the reason for test scores getting better is that they are coming up with better ways to cram for it.

So overall, I think it’s very odd that this test score is all anyone ever focuses on. I guess it’s the only concrete number there is. I don’t think it’s odd that parents want to put their children in a good school district but all they care about is that one number! Parts of the test are a total joke (like some wording on the spelling portions saying things like ‘which word is NOT spelled incorrectly’, the phrasing on questions, the subjects for reading) and I seriously have to question the creators of it. And of course like all public school curricula, they have to use ethnic subjects and names for absolutely no reason and just end up distracting the majority of students. It’s never John Smith who is hard working, has a rich heritage, and volunteers in a charity.

[quote=Rich Toscano]But my K-12 education experience basically consisted of me being taught mostly kind of useless stuff, and me just later learning all the useful stuff on my own.[/quote]

I have to ditto this. Basically almost everything I feel I learned K-12 was self taught and the school just provided the materials. Children need to have strong reading and math skills early on and then the rest falls into place as long as they still have a natural desire to learn. Spending weeks on test preparation is one sure way of killing that desire.

I see this obsession over schools as just an extension of the general obsession parents today have over everything in their children’s lives. Then they wonder why they have adult children who are totally dependent on them later on.

[CBad]

Thanks for posting this topic because it has always been a question of mine as well. Just curious how many of you have seen these standardized STAR tests? If you have, you’ll know that there are schools that specifically teach to this test. I think that’s why you see particular schools even in the less than desirable areas that have good test scores. I’ve known of schools who carve out X amount of weeks specifically coaching for this test. And if you’ve seen it you’d also know that it’s not a true measure of intelligence or even accurately portrays all the knowledge the student has in these subjects. (Full disclosure, my kids kick butt on these tests, so it’s not like I’m biased because they scored low). I honestly think the test scores reflect as others have said demographics and test preparation more than anything. Anyone who said they are tied to IQ scores obviously hasn’t seen it. They do not measure intelligence potential. And the reason for test scores getting better is that they are coming up with better ways to cram for it.

So overall, I think it’s very odd that this test score is all anyone ever focuses on. I guess it’s the only concrete number there is. I don’t think it’s odd that parents want to put their children in a good school district but all they care about is that one number! Parts of the test are a total joke (like some wording on the spelling portions saying things like ‘which word is NOT spelled incorrectly’, the phrasing on questions, the subjects for reading) and I seriously have to question the creators of it. And of course like all public school curricula, they have to use ethnic subjects and names for absolutely no reason and just end up distracting the majority of students. It’s never John Smith who is hard working, has a rich heritage, and volunteers in a charity.

[quote=Rich Toscano]But my K-12 education experience basically consisted of me being taught mostly kind of useless stuff, and me just later learning all the useful stuff on my own.[/quote]

I have to ditto this. Basically almost everything I feel I learned K-12 was self taught and the school just provided the materials. Children need to have strong reading and math skills early on and then the rest falls into place as long as they still have a natural desire to learn. Spending weeks on test preparation is one sure way of killing that desire.

I see this obsession over schools as just an extension of the general obsession parents today have over everything in their children’s lives. Then they wonder why they have adult children who are totally dependent on them later on.

[CBad]

Thanks for posting this topic because it has always been a question of mine as well. Just curious how many of you have seen these standardized STAR tests? If you have, you’ll know that there are schools that specifically teach to this test. I think that’s why you see particular schools even in the less than desirable areas that have good test scores. I’ve known of schools who carve out X amount of weeks specifically coaching for this test. And if you’ve seen it you’d also know that it’s not a true measure of intelligence or even accurately portrays all the knowledge the student has in these subjects. (Full disclosure, my kids kick butt on these tests, so it’s not like I’m biased because they scored low). I honestly think the test scores reflect as others have said demographics and test preparation more than anything. Anyone who said they are tied to IQ scores obviously hasn’t seen it. They do not measure intelligence potential. And the reason for test scores getting better is that they are coming up with better ways to cram for it.

So overall, I think it’s very odd that this test score is all anyone ever focuses on. I guess it’s the only concrete number there is. I don’t think it’s odd that parents want to put their children in a good school district but all they care about is that one number! Parts of the test are a total joke (like some wording on the spelling portions saying things like ‘which word is NOT spelled incorrectly’, the phrasing on questions, the subjects for reading) and I seriously have to question the creators of it. And of course like all public school curricula, they have to use ethnic subjects and names for absolutely no reason and just end up distracting the majority of students. It’s never John Smith who is hard working, has a rich heritage, and volunteers in a charity.

[quote=Rich Toscano]But my K-12 education experience basically consisted of me being taught mostly kind of useless stuff, and me just later learning all the useful stuff on my own.[/quote]

I have to ditto this. Basically almost everything I feel I learned K-12 was self taught and the school just provided the materials. Children need to have strong reading and math skills early on and then the rest falls into place as long as they still have a natural desire to learn. Spending weeks on test preparation is one sure way of killing that desire.

I see this obsession over schools as just an extension of the general obsession parents today have over everything in their children’s lives. Then they wonder why they have adult children who are totally dependent on them later on.

[CBad]

Thanks for posting this topic because it has always been a question of mine as well. Just curious how many of you have seen these standardized STAR tests? If you have, you’ll know that there are schools that specifically teach to this test. I think that’s why you see particular schools even in the less than desirable areas that have good test scores. I’ve known of schools who carve out X amount of weeks specifically coaching for this test. And if you’ve seen it you’d also know that it’s not a true measure of intelligence or even accurately portrays all the knowledge the student has in these subjects. (Full disclosure, my kids kick butt on these tests, so it’s not like I’m biased because they scored low). I honestly think the test scores reflect as others have said demographics and test preparation more than anything. Anyone who said they are tied to IQ scores obviously hasn’t seen it. They do not measure intelligence potential. And the reason for test scores getting better is that they are coming up with better ways to cram for it.

So overall, I think it’s very odd that this test score is all anyone ever focuses on. I guess it’s the only concrete number there is. I don’t think it’s odd that parents want to put their children in a good school district but all they care about is that one number! Parts of the test are a total joke (like some wording on the spelling portions saying things like ‘which word is NOT spelled incorrectly’, the phrasing on questions, the subjects for reading) and I seriously have to question the creators of it. And of course like all public school curricula, they have to use ethnic subjects and names for absolutely no reason and just end up distracting the majority of students. It’s never John Smith who is hard working, has a rich heritage, and volunteers in a charity.

[quote=Rich Toscano]But my K-12 education experience basically consisted of me being taught mostly kind of useless stuff, and me just later learning all the useful stuff on my own.[/quote]

I have to ditto this. Basically almost everything I feel I learned K-12 was self taught and the school just provided the materials. Children need to have strong reading and math skills early on and then the rest falls into place as long as they still have a natural desire to learn. Spending weeks on test preparation is one sure way of killing that desire.

I see this obsession over schools as just an extension of the general obsession parents today have over everything in their children’s lives. Then they wonder why they have adult children who are totally dependent on them later on.

[an]

[quote=goldfish]
The competition does exist in public school. You just vote with where you live. Are you suggesting to use a merit based system to decide who goes to which public elementary school? I don’t think it is a bad idea but it will not happen. [/quote]
So you’re basically saying that it’s OK to segregate kids by the parents’ social economic circumstances.

I’m suggesting give me a choice to determine which school I want to send my kid to. I paid tax into the system, so I should have a choice which school should get my money. If a private school can be sustained at $8-9k/yr per student and still have class size of 10:1, I expect the same level of public school since they’re spending 9-10k/yr per student.

[an]

[quote=goldfish]
The competition does exist in public school. You just vote with where you live. Are you suggesting to use a merit based system to decide who goes to which public elementary school? I don’t think it is a bad idea but it will not happen. [/quote]
So you’re basically saying that it’s OK to segregate kids by the parents’ social economic circumstances.

I’m suggesting give me a choice to determine which school I want to send my kid to. I paid tax into the system, so I should have a choice which school should get my money. If a private school can be sustained at $8-9k/yr per student and still have class size of 10:1, I expect the same level of public school since they’re spending 9-10k/yr per student.

[an]

[quote=goldfish]
The competition does exist in public school. You just vote with where you live. Are you suggesting to use a merit based system to decide who goes to which public elementary school? I don’t think it is a bad idea but it will not happen. [/quote]
So you’re basically saying that it’s OK to segregate kids by the parents’ social economic circumstances.

I’m suggesting give me a choice to determine which school I want to send my kid to. I paid tax into the system, so I should have a choice which school should get my money. If a private school can be sustained at $8-9k/yr per student and still have class size of 10:1, I expect the same level of public school since they’re spending 9-10k/yr per student.

[an]

[quote=goldfish]
The competition does exist in public school. You just vote with where you live. Are you suggesting to use a merit based system to decide who goes to which public elementary school? I don’t think it is a bad idea but it will not happen. [/quote]
So you’re basically saying that it’s OK to segregate kids by the parents’ social economic circumstances.

I’m suggesting give me a choice to determine which school I want to send my kid to. I paid tax into the system, so I should have a choice which school should get my money. If a private school can be sustained at $8-9k/yr per student and still have class size of 10:1, I expect the same level of public school since they’re spending 9-10k/yr per student.

[an]

[quote=goldfish]
The competition does exist in public school. You just vote with where you live. Are you suggesting to use a merit based system to decide who goes to which public elementary school? I don’t think it is a bad idea but it will not happen. [/quote]
So you’re basically saying that it’s OK to segregate kids by the parents’ social economic circumstances.

I’m suggesting give me a choice to determine which school I want to send my kid to. I paid tax into the system, so I should have a choice which school should get my money. If a private school can be sustained at $8-9k/yr per student and still have class size of 10:1, I expect the same level of public school since they’re spending 9-10k/yr per student.

[wbk]

Hi Rich,

Interesting question – I bet the details are different for different people, but here’s my take on it. My background is that I went to school in Del Mar, have two kids in the San Marcos schools, and I teach in a local college.

Question 1 – we’re still renting, but we definitely tried to get rentals in places with schools with high API scores. We’re in San Marcos, not Poway, because (as you mentioned) above a certain level we figured the schools were pretty equivalent, and it wasn’t worth the extra commute time and cost. We consider this to be a choice for our kids’ benefit, since less commute time means more time at home, and less cost means more money for college funds, travel, etc. Personally, some of the most useful classes I took in school were shop and cooking classes – I still use those skills today. I think generally, though, that even if people agree with you that school doesn’t teach a lot that you need to know, people will generally not choose to send their kids to weaker schools if they can afford to send them to stronger ones. Hard to look at your kids and say “hey, it’s good enough for you.” Many irrational parenting decisions are made based on this, I reckon.

Question 2 – I already admitted we paid attention to the API scores, but we know full well they miss important things. The comment above about school-provided services in Poway are a case in point. We basically used the API’s because they were available, and it’s really hard to judge schools (much like picking a doctor or dentist). And, yes absolutely, schools bend over backward to try to post good scores, because school funding (and now I believe even teacher salaries) are tied to the things. But, when it’s all said and done, I don’t think there are huge surprises in the API scores (just published in the NC times) – districts reputed for a long time to be good had high API’s, weak ones have low API scores. I have no doubt that API scores reinforce and perpetuate the “good” and “weak” reputations of schools, but before the scores these reputations were formed and perpetuated in other ways, so I’m not sure the API is doing anything new in that regard.

[wbk]

Hi Rich,

Interesting question – I bet the details are different for different people, but here’s my take on it. My background is that I went to school in Del Mar, have two kids in the San Marcos schools, and I teach in a local college.

Question 1 – we’re still renting, but we definitely tried to get rentals in places with schools with high API scores. We’re in San Marcos, not Poway, because (as you mentioned) above a certain level we figured the schools were pretty equivalent, and it wasn’t worth the extra commute time and cost. We consider this to be a choice for our kids’ benefit, since less commute time means more time at home, and less cost means more money for college funds, travel, etc. Personally, some of the most useful classes I took in school were shop and cooking classes – I still use those skills today. I think generally, though, that even if people agree with you that school doesn’t teach a lot that you need to know, people will generally not choose to send their kids to weaker schools if they can afford to send them to stronger ones. Hard to look at your kids and say “hey, it’s good enough for you.” Many irrational parenting decisions are made based on this, I reckon.

Question 2 – I already admitted we paid attention to the API scores, but we know full well they miss important things. The comment above about school-provided services in Poway are a case in point. We basically used the API’s because they were available, and it’s really hard to judge schools (much like picking a doctor or dentist). And, yes absolutely, schools bend over backward to try to post good scores, because school funding (and now I believe even teacher salaries) are tied to the things. But, when it’s all said and done, I don’t think there are huge surprises in the API scores (just published in the NC times) – districts reputed for a long time to be good had high API’s, weak ones have low API scores. I have no doubt that API scores reinforce and perpetuate the “good” and “weak” reputations of schools, but before the scores these reputations were formed and perpetuated in other ways, so I’m not sure the API is doing anything new in that regard.

[wbk]

Hi Rich,

Interesting question – I bet the details are different for different people, but here’s my take on it. My background is that I went to school in Del Mar, have two kids in the San Marcos schools, and I teach in a local college.

Question 1 – we’re still renting, but we definitely tried to get rentals in places with schools with high API scores. We’re in San Marcos, not Poway, because (as you mentioned) above a certain level we figured the schools were pretty equivalent, and it wasn’t worth the extra commute time and cost. We consider this to be a choice for our kids’ benefit, since less commute time means more time at home, and less cost means more money for college funds, travel, etc. Personally, some of the most useful classes I took in school were shop and cooking classes – I still use those skills today. I think generally, though, that even if people agree with you that school doesn’t teach a lot that you need to know, people will generally not choose to send their kids to weaker schools if they can afford to send them to stronger ones. Hard to look at your kids and say “hey, it’s good enough for you.” Many irrational parenting decisions are made based on this, I reckon.

Question 2 – I already admitted we paid attention to the API scores, but we know full well they miss important things. The comment above about school-provided services in Poway are a case in point. We basically used the API’s because they were available, and it’s really hard to judge schools (much like picking a doctor or dentist). And, yes absolutely, schools bend over backward to try to post good scores, because school funding (and now I believe even teacher salaries) are tied to the things. But, when it’s all said and done, I don’t think there are huge surprises in the API scores (just published in the NC times) – districts reputed for a long time to be good had high API’s, weak ones have low API scores. I have no doubt that API scores reinforce and perpetuate the “good” and “weak” reputations of schools, but before the scores these reputations were formed and perpetuated in other ways, so I’m not sure the API is doing anything new in that regard.

[wbk]

Hi Rich,

Interesting question – I bet the details are different for different people, but here’s my take on it. My background is that I went to school in Del Mar, have two kids in the San Marcos schools, and I teach in a local college.

Question 1 – we’re still renting, but we definitely tried to get rentals in places with schools with high API scores. We’re in San Marcos, not Poway, because (as you mentioned) above a certain level we figured the schools were pretty equivalent, and it wasn’t worth the extra commute time and cost. We consider this to be a choice for our kids’ benefit, since less commute time means more time at home, and less cost means more money for college funds, travel, etc. Personally, some of the most useful classes I took in school were shop and cooking classes – I still use those skills today. I think generally, though, that even if people agree with you that school doesn’t teach a lot that you need to know, people will generally not choose to send their kids to weaker schools if they can afford to send them to stronger ones. Hard to look at your kids and say “hey, it’s good enough for you.” Many irrational parenting decisions are made based on this, I reckon.

Question 2 – I already admitted we paid attention to the API scores, but we know full well they miss important things. The comment above about school-provided services in Poway are a case in point. We basically used the API’s because they were available, and it’s really hard to judge schools (much like picking a doctor or dentist). And, yes absolutely, schools bend over backward to try to post good scores, because school funding (and now I believe even teacher salaries) are tied to the things. But, when it’s all said and done, I don’t think there are huge surprises in the API scores (just published in the NC times) – districts reputed for a long time to be good had high API’s, weak ones have low API scores. I have no doubt that API scores reinforce and perpetuate the “good” and “weak” reputations of schools, but before the scores these reputations were formed and perpetuated in other ways, so I’m not sure the API is doing anything new in that regard.

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