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  • December 27, 2011 at 11:21 AM #735026
    briansd1
    Guest

    Don’t know much about bikes. But my younger bro built a bike with an off brand frame made in Taiwan. Some super duper thing that would cost a fortune if it were branded.

    According to him, the branded frames are not any better and are manufactured by the same people anyway.

    December 27, 2011 at 11:46 AM #735030
    scaredyclassic
    Participant

    Kind of true. There are lg Taiwanese robot bike factories. But bikes are not manufactured toidentical specs in the factory. Still, similar.

    For less $ you can get a handmade steel frame custom made in the USA made by a cool guy or girl!!!! He she probably will be super into making yr bike. It may have a soul.

    Steel is pro America pro solo craftsman for bikes.

    Anyone can take a framebuilding class set up shopand start welding frames. It takes a long time
    e to get good at the craft but it’s feasible.

    Carbon fiber bike molds, different start up costs.

    I apologize for insulting carbon fiber and acknowledge it certainly has many great applications. I just feel strong bike frame forks and handlebars are not appropriate …

    December 27, 2011 at 12:21 PM #735033
    dumbrenter
    Participant

    How different is American steel from other steel? Does it have any special juice or carbon concoction? Just curious.
    I thought practically all new ore is going to China while most steel here is recycled and reused.

    December 27, 2011 at 1:01 PM #735043
    briansd1
    Guest

    [quote=walterwhite]
    For less $ you can get a handmade steel frame custom made in the USA made by a cool guy or girl!!!! He she probably will be super into making yr bike. It may have a soul.

    [/quote]

    hummm a bike with a soul. That’s a good way of putting it. It’s kinda cool if you get to meet the maker of the bike.

    I don’t buy bikes.. I just ride the hand-me-downs from my brothers. My bro spent countless hours buying the parts and building my current bike. I guess my bike has a soul.

    December 27, 2011 at 1:41 PM #735044
    ucodegen
    Participant

    [quote=walterwhite]Steel bends.

    Carbon fiber snaps.[/quote]Fairly accurate, but simplistic.

  • cast iron or steel will snap.
  • cast aluminum snaps.
  • forged or drawn aluminum (particularly aircraft alloys) will yield/bend up to a point and then snap.
  • forged or draw steel (particularly chrome-moly) will yield/bend up to a point and then snap.
  • softer steels and aluminum(s) will weaken with working/bending and then start getting stiffer (see work hardening) followed by snapping.

    The force required to break a carbon fiber part (ie bar) is significantly higher than a bar of the same weight made of aluminum or steel. NOTE: Aluminum alloys are generally 2.5 times stronger per pound than steel (this is why many aircraft are made of an aluminum alloy).

    Part of the problem of why some carbon fiber products fail is because the designers use the same safety factors as they would for steel or aluminum, ignoring the behavior of the material at its yield or breaking strength. With parts that have no yield strength and their failure is catastrophic, you want a higher safety factor in their design. ie. if you are designing a part made of steel, you might specify a safety factor of 2.5 times the working strength. If you make the same item out of carbon fiber, you might specify a safety factor of nearly 4 times the working strength (and even then, the part would be lighter in carbon fiber).

    Yes, a cut in a carbon fiber structure can affect its strength, though it needs to cut the fibers itself. Just nicking the gel-coat surface will not affect the strength.

    Some more composite parts:
    Wings on an F18 are composite.
    Stealth fighter is composite.
    Most of Burt Rutans airplanes are composite.
    Several new business jets are made of carbon fiber.
    Formula race cars have a carbon fiber frame.
    The Ferrari Enzo has a carbon fiber frame (including the one that took on a telephone pole sideways at somewhere around 162mph). http://www.wreckedexotics.com/enzo/enzo_20060221_006.shtml

December 27, 2011 at 2:03 PM #735046
scaredyclassic
Participant

So you significantly scratch your carbon fiber bike and it’s not safe to ride.

People who ride bikes often scratch them. We fall. The bikes fall over. They get gouged in transport.

Unacceptable.

In real life I think steel fails slowly on bikes. It creaks. It gives notice it’s dying.

Carbon doesn’t.

December 27, 2011 at 2:08 PM #735048
afx114
Participant

Composite hockey sticks break at rates far higher than their wooden counterparts specifically because of the nick/dent weakness of composite. With all the stick-on-stick hacking and slashing that goes on, it seems that there’s a snapped stick on the ice every 10 minutes. They cost 10 times as much and break 10 times as often.

But holy shit do they deliver a wicked slapshot.

As with everything in life, there are tradeoffs.

December 27, 2011 at 2:17 PM #735051
scaredyclassic
Participant

Handmade products are sometimes inhabited with spirits.

December 27, 2011 at 2:25 PM #735052
scaredyclassic
Participant

In bicycles the tradeoff can involve serious injury or death.

And no real advantage.

December 27, 2011 at 2:31 PM #735054
scaredyclassic
Participant

Ok check out http://www.bustedcarbon.com where people send in photos and tales of broken carbon bikes.

Jeez, how can anyone ride this stuff?

December 27, 2011 at 3:02 PM #735059
ucodegen
Participant

[quote=walterwhite]So you significantly scratch your carbon fiber bike and it’s not safe to ride.
—
In real life I think steel fails slowly on bikes. It creaks. It gives notice it’s dying.

Carbon doesn’t.[/quote] I have had a steel bike fail suddenly (Motobecane). You don’t always have the creak. As for a scratch, it has to be a bit more than a ‘scratch’. Try gouge.

Some of the pictures from http://www.bustedcarbon.com/ prove my point about the ‘safety factor’. I looked at the end of the ‘Cannondale’ submitted July 4, 2011. The thickness of the carbon fiber tube is about the same as of a steel tube bike. You don’t do that with carbon.

As for some of the others, bent steel, bent aluminum or busted carbon, you still have a broken bike. Thinwall moly can not just be bent back together. A lot of those were caused by accidents, which would either bend the tubing or crack the carbon.

December 27, 2011 at 4:05 PM #735061
scaredyclassic
Participant

Ok. Maybe. I admit steel bikes is more like a religion for me. I may not be rational. This is a matter of faith.

I will not submit to science or rationality on this. Steel.

December 28, 2011 at 8:46 AM #735085
bobby
Participant

Hmmm.. all it takes is one ardent cyclist to turn this into a thread I love.

CF’s safety (or lack there of) is probably overblown. Yes, they will break instead of bend. However, given their recent popularity and how many enthusiasts ride them and how little we hear about breakage, their safety is probably sound.

Now, if you want to talk Steel is Real, get Ti. If you want american made, get Seven. Also there are tons of small indi bike builders (Strong, Cycip, Moots, etc).

having said all that and as the owner of several bikes (all of which are made in USA except 1 Colnago), if you purchase bikes, 50% of its value will be from Italy or Japan (Campy/Shimano). Buying American is not in bikes.

December 28, 2011 at 9:14 AM #735087
afx114
Participant

Not to derail this thread even further, but Santa just brought me a coupon valid for one new bike. I haven’t ridden since I was a teenager, so am pretty much a biking n00b. There seem to be bike-knowledgable people here, so any tips? Looking for something to run errands around the hood, burrito runs, bar hopping, good for a baby seat/trailer, mostly street riding but would like the option for trails/etc. Want something light and not too bulky. So, Piggie bikers, what say you? Hybrid I assume? Any tips on brands/styles/accessories? I’ll be purchasing from the Mission Hills Bike Shop. Thanks, and sorry for the threadjack!

December 28, 2011 at 10:40 AM #735089
Coronita
Participant

back on thread. These are still made in america.

http://waldsports.com/index.cfm/trainingwheels.html

I just bought some for my 5 year old…

Together with it, a new axle (since the original one was too short), and trip to the bike shop because I didn’t want to get my hands all greasy right before xmas, total out the door for training wheels installed $80….$25 for the wheels, $12 for the axle, and $40 for 1/2 labor + tax.

The bike itself was $85 bucks BTW…But oh no…. She really really wanted a purple 18″ bike with a particular character..

But I’m happy. Because based on the quality of the wheels I saw, the bike will break before the training wheels… 🙁

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