Economic Collapse 2011?

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=briansd1][quote=captcha]It’s not like we were not warned 🙂

[/quote]

Yep, I agree with Eugene. Paul Krugman and Robert Reich were pretty correct on their predictions and what needed to be done.[/quote]

Brian: You crack me up. Krugman has become more and more hysterical as time has passed (largely because he’s been shown to be more and more wrong as time has passed) and he’s largely nothing more than a Keynesian hack at this point, parroting on ad nauseum about the same failed policies.

The policies brought forth in the New Deal and continued under the Great Society are now exposed for what they are: unsustainable and unaffordable.

Same goes for the socialized/socialist Eurostate that emerged post-WWII.

We are heading for the rocks at flank speed and unless and until we come to grips with the massive cuts and changes that need to take place, this mess will grow ever worse. We can’t afford what we have now, the answer is most definitely NOT to spend more.

[CA renter]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook][quote=briansd1][quote=captcha]It’s not like we were not warned 🙂

[/quote]

Yep, I agree with Eugene. Paul Krugman and Robert Reich were pretty correct on their predictions and what needed to be done.[/quote]

Brian: You crack me up. Krugman has become more and more hysterical as time has passed (largely because he’s been shown to be more and more wrong as time has passed) and he’s largely nothing more than a Keynesian hack at this point, parroting on ad nauseum about the same failed policies.

The policies brought forth in the New Deal and continued under the Great Society are now exposed for what they are: unsustainable and unaffordable.

Same goes for the socialized/socialist Eurostate that emerged post-WWII.

We are heading for the rocks at flank speed and unless and until we come to grips with the massive cuts and changes that need to take place, this mess will grow ever worse. We can’t afford what we have now, the answer is most definitely NOT to spend more.[/quote]

Allan,

How do you think things would look if we had kept our jobs here, as opposed to sending them overseas? And how would things look if we hadn’t passed the tax cuts that obviously have NOT panned out as promised (where are those jobs the supposed “job creators” promised us, if only we’d cut their taxes)? How would things look if we hadn’t engaged in wars in countries where we don’t belong? How would things look if we made our corporations actually PAY for the benefits that they receive as a result of our political and economic stability, our infrastructure, our military, and our legal protections?

Just wondering…because I don’t blame the New Deal nearly as much as I blame the funneling of money to a tiny group of people at the top of the economic/power pyramid. They now have all the power to funnel money to themselves at an accelerated pace. This has decimated the finances and power of the largest portion of our population; and it’s the economic participation of this largest group — the critical mass — that is required to maintain a stable and healthy economy.

That’s not to say that some changes don’t need to be made on some levels, but to blame our “socialist policies” is a bit wrong-headed, IMHO.

[CA renter]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook][quote=briansd1][quote=captcha]It’s not like we were not warned 🙂

[/quote]

Yep, I agree with Eugene. Paul Krugman and Robert Reich were pretty correct on their predictions and what needed to be done.[/quote]

Brian: You crack me up. Krugman has become more and more hysterical as time has passed (largely because he’s been shown to be more and more wrong as time has passed) and he’s largely nothing more than a Keynesian hack at this point, parroting on ad nauseum about the same failed policies.

The policies brought forth in the New Deal and continued under the Great Society are now exposed for what they are: unsustainable and unaffordable.

Same goes for the socialized/socialist Eurostate that emerged post-WWII.

We are heading for the rocks at flank speed and unless and until we come to grips with the massive cuts and changes that need to take place, this mess will grow ever worse. We can’t afford what we have now, the answer is most definitely NOT to spend more.[/quote]

Allan,

How do you think things would look if we had kept our jobs here, as opposed to sending them overseas? And how would things look if we hadn’t passed the tax cuts that obviously have NOT panned out as promised (where are those jobs the supposed “job creators” promised us, if only we’d cut their taxes)? How would things look if we hadn’t engaged in wars in countries where we don’t belong? How would things look if we made our corporations actually PAY for the benefits that they receive as a result of our political and economic stability, our infrastructure, our military, and our legal protections?

Just wondering…because I don’t blame the New Deal nearly as much as I blame the funneling of money to a tiny group of people at the top of the economic/power pyramid. They now have all the power to funnel money to themselves at an accelerated pace. This has decimated the finances and power of the largest portion of our population; and it’s the economic participation of this largest group — the critical mass — that is required to maintain a stable and healthy economy.

That’s not to say that some changes don’t need to be made on some levels, but to blame our “socialist policies” is a bit wrong-headed, IMHO.

[CA renter]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook][quote=briansd1][quote=captcha]It’s not like we were not warned 🙂

[/quote]

Yep, I agree with Eugene. Paul Krugman and Robert Reich were pretty correct on their predictions and what needed to be done.[/quote]

Brian: You crack me up. Krugman has become more and more hysterical as time has passed (largely because he’s been shown to be more and more wrong as time has passed) and he’s largely nothing more than a Keynesian hack at this point, parroting on ad nauseum about the same failed policies.

The policies brought forth in the New Deal and continued under the Great Society are now exposed for what they are: unsustainable and unaffordable.

Same goes for the socialized/socialist Eurostate that emerged post-WWII.

We are heading for the rocks at flank speed and unless and until we come to grips with the massive cuts and changes that need to take place, this mess will grow ever worse. We can’t afford what we have now, the answer is most definitely NOT to spend more.[/quote]

Allan,

How do you think things would look if we had kept our jobs here, as opposed to sending them overseas? And how would things look if we hadn’t passed the tax cuts that obviously have NOT panned out as promised (where are those jobs the supposed “job creators” promised us, if only we’d cut their taxes)? How would things look if we hadn’t engaged in wars in countries where we don’t belong? How would things look if we made our corporations actually PAY for the benefits that they receive as a result of our political and economic stability, our infrastructure, our military, and our legal protections?

Just wondering…because I don’t blame the New Deal nearly as much as I blame the funneling of money to a tiny group of people at the top of the economic/power pyramid. They now have all the power to funnel money to themselves at an accelerated pace. This has decimated the finances and power of the largest portion of our population; and it’s the economic participation of this largest group — the critical mass — that is required to maintain a stable and healthy economy.

That’s not to say that some changes don’t need to be made on some levels, but to blame our “socialist policies” is a bit wrong-headed, IMHO.

[CA renter]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook][quote=briansd1][quote=captcha]It’s not like we were not warned 🙂

[/quote]

Yep, I agree with Eugene. Paul Krugman and Robert Reich were pretty correct on their predictions and what needed to be done.[/quote]

Brian: You crack me up. Krugman has become more and more hysterical as time has passed (largely because he’s been shown to be more and more wrong as time has passed) and he’s largely nothing more than a Keynesian hack at this point, parroting on ad nauseum about the same failed policies.

The policies brought forth in the New Deal and continued under the Great Society are now exposed for what they are: unsustainable and unaffordable.

Same goes for the socialized/socialist Eurostate that emerged post-WWII.

We are heading for the rocks at flank speed and unless and until we come to grips with the massive cuts and changes that need to take place, this mess will grow ever worse. We can’t afford what we have now, the answer is most definitely NOT to spend more.[/quote]

Allan,

How do you think things would look if we had kept our jobs here, as opposed to sending them overseas? And how would things look if we hadn’t passed the tax cuts that obviously have NOT panned out as promised (where are those jobs the supposed “job creators” promised us, if only we’d cut their taxes)? How would things look if we hadn’t engaged in wars in countries where we don’t belong? How would things look if we made our corporations actually PAY for the benefits that they receive as a result of our political and economic stability, our infrastructure, our military, and our legal protections?

Just wondering…because I don’t blame the New Deal nearly as much as I blame the funneling of money to a tiny group of people at the top of the economic/power pyramid. They now have all the power to funnel money to themselves at an accelerated pace. This has decimated the finances and power of the largest portion of our population; and it’s the economic participation of this largest group — the critical mass — that is required to maintain a stable and healthy economy.

That’s not to say that some changes don’t need to be made on some levels, but to blame our “socialist policies” is a bit wrong-headed, IMHO.

[CA renter]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook][quote=briansd1][quote=captcha]It’s not like we were not warned 🙂

[/quote]

Yep, I agree with Eugene. Paul Krugman and Robert Reich were pretty correct on their predictions and what needed to be done.[/quote]

Brian: You crack me up. Krugman has become more and more hysterical as time has passed (largely because he’s been shown to be more and more wrong as time has passed) and he’s largely nothing more than a Keynesian hack at this point, parroting on ad nauseum about the same failed policies.

The policies brought forth in the New Deal and continued under the Great Society are now exposed for what they are: unsustainable and unaffordable.

Same goes for the socialized/socialist Eurostate that emerged post-WWII.

We are heading for the rocks at flank speed and unless and until we come to grips with the massive cuts and changes that need to take place, this mess will grow ever worse. We can’t afford what we have now, the answer is most definitely NOT to spend more.[/quote]

Allan,

How do you think things would look if we had kept our jobs here, as opposed to sending them overseas? And how would things look if we hadn’t passed the tax cuts that obviously have NOT panned out as promised (where are those jobs the supposed “job creators” promised us, if only we’d cut their taxes)? How would things look if we hadn’t engaged in wars in countries where we don’t belong? How would things look if we made our corporations actually PAY for the benefits that they receive as a result of our political and economic stability, our infrastructure, our military, and our legal protections?

Just wondering…because I don’t blame the New Deal nearly as much as I blame the funneling of money to a tiny group of people at the top of the economic/power pyramid. They now have all the power to funnel money to themselves at an accelerated pace. This has decimated the finances and power of the largest portion of our population; and it’s the economic participation of this largest group — the critical mass — that is required to maintain a stable and healthy economy.

That’s not to say that some changes don’t need to be made on some levels, but to blame our “socialist policies” is a bit wrong-headed, IMHO.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

CAR: You’ll get no disagreement from me on any of the points you made. My argument was specifically focused on Krugman’s banging on incessantly about the same failed policies.

I do agree that, relative to GDP, taxes are at their lowest point in many years and should be raised.

I also agree that the US absolutely NEEDS an Industrial Policy that is geared solely to bringing manufacturing jobs back to the US and creating the necessary mechanisms to do this (job training, competitive corporate tax rate, elimination of needless bureaucracy, etc).

We need tax reform. And, yes, we need TRUE financial reform (which, if you’re being fair, we have NOT gotten from the Obama Administration).

We need to declare victory and get the fuck out of Afghanistan. The loss of those SEALs over the weekend was the final straw for me. Figure out a different goddamn strategy and get our people home. Which ties into the idea of “stop wasting money on foreign misadventures”. Last time I checked, we’d passed the $1T mark.

All that said, entitlement spending is the single largest issue going forward and needs to be addressed. Put Defense on the table right there with it, but entitlement reform, including cuts, needs to happen.

I don’t hold one side guilty and the other blameless. We have seen the single largest vote-buying spree in US history and both sides have participated. We either get serious or hand the keys to the Chinese.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

CAR: You’ll get no disagreement from me on any of the points you made. My argument was specifically focused on Krugman’s banging on incessantly about the same failed policies.

I do agree that, relative to GDP, taxes are at their lowest point in many years and should be raised.

I also agree that the US absolutely NEEDS an Industrial Policy that is geared solely to bringing manufacturing jobs back to the US and creating the necessary mechanisms to do this (job training, competitive corporate tax rate, elimination of needless bureaucracy, etc).

We need tax reform. And, yes, we need TRUE financial reform (which, if you’re being fair, we have NOT gotten from the Obama Administration).

We need to declare victory and get the fuck out of Afghanistan. The loss of those SEALs over the weekend was the final straw for me. Figure out a different goddamn strategy and get our people home. Which ties into the idea of “stop wasting money on foreign misadventures”. Last time I checked, we’d passed the $1T mark.

All that said, entitlement spending is the single largest issue going forward and needs to be addressed. Put Defense on the table right there with it, but entitlement reform, including cuts, needs to happen.

I don’t hold one side guilty and the other blameless. We have seen the single largest vote-buying spree in US history and both sides have participated. We either get serious or hand the keys to the Chinese.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

CAR: You’ll get no disagreement from me on any of the points you made. My argument was specifically focused on Krugman’s banging on incessantly about the same failed policies.

I do agree that, relative to GDP, taxes are at their lowest point in many years and should be raised.

I also agree that the US absolutely NEEDS an Industrial Policy that is geared solely to bringing manufacturing jobs back to the US and creating the necessary mechanisms to do this (job training, competitive corporate tax rate, elimination of needless bureaucracy, etc).

We need tax reform. And, yes, we need TRUE financial reform (which, if you’re being fair, we have NOT gotten from the Obama Administration).

We need to declare victory and get the fuck out of Afghanistan. The loss of those SEALs over the weekend was the final straw for me. Figure out a different goddamn strategy and get our people home. Which ties into the idea of “stop wasting money on foreign misadventures”. Last time I checked, we’d passed the $1T mark.

All that said, entitlement spending is the single largest issue going forward and needs to be addressed. Put Defense on the table right there with it, but entitlement reform, including cuts, needs to happen.

I don’t hold one side guilty and the other blameless. We have seen the single largest vote-buying spree in US history and both sides have participated. We either get serious or hand the keys to the Chinese.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

CAR: You’ll get no disagreement from me on any of the points you made. My argument was specifically focused on Krugman’s banging on incessantly about the same failed policies.

I do agree that, relative to GDP, taxes are at their lowest point in many years and should be raised.

I also agree that the US absolutely NEEDS an Industrial Policy that is geared solely to bringing manufacturing jobs back to the US and creating the necessary mechanisms to do this (job training, competitive corporate tax rate, elimination of needless bureaucracy, etc).

We need tax reform. And, yes, we need TRUE financial reform (which, if you’re being fair, we have NOT gotten from the Obama Administration).

We need to declare victory and get the fuck out of Afghanistan. The loss of those SEALs over the weekend was the final straw for me. Figure out a different goddamn strategy and get our people home. Which ties into the idea of “stop wasting money on foreign misadventures”. Last time I checked, we’d passed the $1T mark.

All that said, entitlement spending is the single largest issue going forward and needs to be addressed. Put Defense on the table right there with it, but entitlement reform, including cuts, needs to happen.

I don’t hold one side guilty and the other blameless. We have seen the single largest vote-buying spree in US history and both sides have participated. We either get serious or hand the keys to the Chinese.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

CAR: You’ll get no disagreement from me on any of the points you made. My argument was specifically focused on Krugman’s banging on incessantly about the same failed policies.

I do agree that, relative to GDP, taxes are at their lowest point in many years and should be raised.

I also agree that the US absolutely NEEDS an Industrial Policy that is geared solely to bringing manufacturing jobs back to the US and creating the necessary mechanisms to do this (job training, competitive corporate tax rate, elimination of needless bureaucracy, etc).

We need tax reform. And, yes, we need TRUE financial reform (which, if you’re being fair, we have NOT gotten from the Obama Administration).

We need to declare victory and get the fuck out of Afghanistan. The loss of those SEALs over the weekend was the final straw for me. Figure out a different goddamn strategy and get our people home. Which ties into the idea of “stop wasting money on foreign misadventures”. Last time I checked, we’d passed the $1T mark.

All that said, entitlement spending is the single largest issue going forward and needs to be addressed. Put Defense on the table right there with it, but entitlement reform, including cuts, needs to happen.

I don’t hold one side guilty and the other blameless. We have seen the single largest vote-buying spree in US history and both sides have participated. We either get serious or hand the keys to the Chinese.

[CA renter]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]CAR: You’ll get no disagreement from me on any of the points you made. My argument was specifically focused on Krugman’s banging on incessantly about the same failed policies.

I do agree that, relative to GDP, taxes are at their lowest point in many years and should be raised.

I also agree that the US absolutely NEEDS an Industrial Policy that is geared solely to bringing manufacturing jobs back to the US and creating the necessary mechanisms to do this (job training, competitive corporate tax rate, elimination of needless bureaucracy, etc).

We need tax reform. And, yes, we need TRUE financial reform (which, if you’re being fair, we have NOT gotten from the Obama Administration).

We need to declare victory and get the fuck out of Afghanistan. The loss of those SEALs over the weekend was the final straw for me. Figure out a different goddamn strategy and get our people home. Which ties into the idea of “stop wasting money on foreign misadventures”. Last time I checked, we’d passed the $1T mark.

All that said, entitlement spending is the single largest issue going forward and needs to be addressed. Put Defense on the table right there with it, but entitlement reform, including cuts, needs to happen.

I don’t hold one side guilty and the other blameless. We have seen the single largest vote-buying spree in US history and both sides have participated. We either get serious or hand the keys to the Chinese.[/quote]

Seems like we agree on 95% of the issues.

In case it wasn’t obvious, Obama gets an “F” from me. The Dems are no less complicit than the Republicans.

Yes, we need to reform SS and Medicare, but you and I would definitely disagree in the way that is done — I favor eliminating or raising the income limits for SS taxes. I would also take all the profitable patients from the private sector and bring them into the Medicare program. We are already paying for the most expensive patients, so why are we giving all the profitable ones to the private sector? People would still be free to buy supplemental insurance from the private insurers, or become cash patients, if that’s what they choose to do, but we should have a national healthcare system that provides a basic level of care for all U.S. citizens and non-citizens who pay into the system.

If that doesn’t work, then we need to have some form of means testing. Yes, it’s a socialist policy, and the right would go ballistic, but it would likely solve most of our problems where SS and Medicare are concerned.

[CA renter]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]CAR: You’ll get no disagreement from me on any of the points you made. My argument was specifically focused on Krugman’s banging on incessantly about the same failed policies.

I do agree that, relative to GDP, taxes are at their lowest point in many years and should be raised.

I also agree that the US absolutely NEEDS an Industrial Policy that is geared solely to bringing manufacturing jobs back to the US and creating the necessary mechanisms to do this (job training, competitive corporate tax rate, elimination of needless bureaucracy, etc).

We need tax reform. And, yes, we need TRUE financial reform (which, if you’re being fair, we have NOT gotten from the Obama Administration).

We need to declare victory and get the fuck out of Afghanistan. The loss of those SEALs over the weekend was the final straw for me. Figure out a different goddamn strategy and get our people home. Which ties into the idea of “stop wasting money on foreign misadventures”. Last time I checked, we’d passed the $1T mark.

All that said, entitlement spending is the single largest issue going forward and needs to be addressed. Put Defense on the table right there with it, but entitlement reform, including cuts, needs to happen.

I don’t hold one side guilty and the other blameless. We have seen the single largest vote-buying spree in US history and both sides have participated. We either get serious or hand the keys to the Chinese.[/quote]

Seems like we agree on 95% of the issues.

In case it wasn’t obvious, Obama gets an “F” from me. The Dems are no less complicit than the Republicans.

Yes, we need to reform SS and Medicare, but you and I would definitely disagree in the way that is done — I favor eliminating or raising the income limits for SS taxes. I would also take all the profitable patients from the private sector and bring them into the Medicare program. We are already paying for the most expensive patients, so why are we giving all the profitable ones to the private sector? People would still be free to buy supplemental insurance from the private insurers, or become cash patients, if that’s what they choose to do, but we should have a national healthcare system that provides a basic level of care for all U.S. citizens and non-citizens who pay into the system.

If that doesn’t work, then we need to have some form of means testing. Yes, it’s a socialist policy, and the right would go ballistic, but it would likely solve most of our problems where SS and Medicare are concerned.

[CA renter]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]CAR: You’ll get no disagreement from me on any of the points you made. My argument was specifically focused on Krugman’s banging on incessantly about the same failed policies.

I do agree that, relative to GDP, taxes are at their lowest point in many years and should be raised.

I also agree that the US absolutely NEEDS an Industrial Policy that is geared solely to bringing manufacturing jobs back to the US and creating the necessary mechanisms to do this (job training, competitive corporate tax rate, elimination of needless bureaucracy, etc).

We need tax reform. And, yes, we need TRUE financial reform (which, if you’re being fair, we have NOT gotten from the Obama Administration).

We need to declare victory and get the fuck out of Afghanistan. The loss of those SEALs over the weekend was the final straw for me. Figure out a different goddamn strategy and get our people home. Which ties into the idea of “stop wasting money on foreign misadventures”. Last time I checked, we’d passed the $1T mark.

All that said, entitlement spending is the single largest issue going forward and needs to be addressed. Put Defense on the table right there with it, but entitlement reform, including cuts, needs to happen.

I don’t hold one side guilty and the other blameless. We have seen the single largest vote-buying spree in US history and both sides have participated. We either get serious or hand the keys to the Chinese.[/quote]

Seems like we agree on 95% of the issues.

In case it wasn’t obvious, Obama gets an “F” from me. The Dems are no less complicit than the Republicans.

Yes, we need to reform SS and Medicare, but you and I would definitely disagree in the way that is done — I favor eliminating or raising the income limits for SS taxes. I would also take all the profitable patients from the private sector and bring them into the Medicare program. We are already paying for the most expensive patients, so why are we giving all the profitable ones to the private sector? People would still be free to buy supplemental insurance from the private insurers, or become cash patients, if that’s what they choose to do, but we should have a national healthcare system that provides a basic level of care for all U.S. citizens and non-citizens who pay into the system.

If that doesn’t work, then we need to have some form of means testing. Yes, it’s a socialist policy, and the right would go ballistic, but it would likely solve most of our problems where SS and Medicare are concerned.

[CA renter]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]CAR: You’ll get no disagreement from me on any of the points you made. My argument was specifically focused on Krugman’s banging on incessantly about the same failed policies.

I do agree that, relative to GDP, taxes are at their lowest point in many years and should be raised.

I also agree that the US absolutely NEEDS an Industrial Policy that is geared solely to bringing manufacturing jobs back to the US and creating the necessary mechanisms to do this (job training, competitive corporate tax rate, elimination of needless bureaucracy, etc).

We need tax reform. And, yes, we need TRUE financial reform (which, if you’re being fair, we have NOT gotten from the Obama Administration).

We need to declare victory and get the fuck out of Afghanistan. The loss of those SEALs over the weekend was the final straw for me. Figure out a different goddamn strategy and get our people home. Which ties into the idea of “stop wasting money on foreign misadventures”. Last time I checked, we’d passed the $1T mark.

All that said, entitlement spending is the single largest issue going forward and needs to be addressed. Put Defense on the table right there with it, but entitlement reform, including cuts, needs to happen.

I don’t hold one side guilty and the other blameless. We have seen the single largest vote-buying spree in US history and both sides have participated. We either get serious or hand the keys to the Chinese.[/quote]

Seems like we agree on 95% of the issues.

In case it wasn’t obvious, Obama gets an “F” from me. The Dems are no less complicit than the Republicans.

Yes, we need to reform SS and Medicare, but you and I would definitely disagree in the way that is done — I favor eliminating or raising the income limits for SS taxes. I would also take all the profitable patients from the private sector and bring them into the Medicare program. We are already paying for the most expensive patients, so why are we giving all the profitable ones to the private sector? People would still be free to buy supplemental insurance from the private insurers, or become cash patients, if that’s what they choose to do, but we should have a national healthcare system that provides a basic level of care for all U.S. citizens and non-citizens who pay into the system.

If that doesn’t work, then we need to have some form of means testing. Yes, it’s a socialist policy, and the right would go ballistic, but it would likely solve most of our problems where SS and Medicare are concerned.

[Author]

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