Dollar Dropping

[partypup]

[quote=UCGal][quote=partypup]
You can’t eat fiat paper either, but I bet you have tried to accumulate as much of that as possible in your life, haven’t you? 😉
[/quote]

But I can accumulate resources that will make me more self sufficient. Owning my home outright (no mortgage) is my short term goal, having a garden put in for food – checked that box already. Looking at making my home and garden more self sufficient/efficient from an energy/water point of view… etc.

Whatever “currency” is the thing in the future – I want to use the least amount of it to maintain my quality of life. This will benefit me in the long haul if fiat currency remains or goes away. I’ll be less dependent on whatever the currency is if I reduce my “needs”.

I don’t pretend to be able to out think the VPP, TPTB, whoever. The system is rigged against the individual in favor of the larger powers like Goldman and Bernanke, et al. It’s like trying to win at slots in Vegas – the odds are against you.

I see the risks in Gold as similar to the Equity markets. Highly manipulated, behind the scenes. Almost impossible for the little guy to beat them at their game.

I don’t know that you’re any better off with a mattress full of cash or a mattress full of gold if the system changes radically. You’re betting on gold. I’m not betting at all.[/quote]

We are indeed in agreement on the critical importance of self-sufficiency, UCGal. For my part, I am currently investigating a 6 acre parcel of farm land in CO with abundant water rights (river runs right through the property). The climate is mild and ripe for growing half of the year, and the winter brings fresh water to the valley form the snow pack. The community is small, progressive and very close-knit. I don’t have the the funds I need to buy it just yet, but I anticipate that come 2010 the dollar panic will push my metals where I need them so I can cash out the majority of them, buy my land, build a large storage shed for my food and other necessities so that I will have limited dependence on the world outside my bunker.

You are correct that there are risks in any investment, but the risks tend to increase in proportion to the awareness of the sheeple. I truly believe that the folks in your office – if they are indeed buying gold – are exceptions to the general rule. Why do I say that? Because if the demand for gold were as great as you say then, given the above-ground supply, the price would be substantially higher. It might interest you to know that in order for gold to hit it’s 1981 inflation-adjusted high, it would need to touch $2,600/oz. We’re not there yet, and don’t think this is going to be just a repeat of the 70s. I think you’ll agree that what we’re about to experience is going to be a helluva lot worse. So until gold reaches $2,600, I will still consider it a bargain.

You may see the risks in gold as similar to the equity markets, but I see distinct differences between the two as the dollar crisis intensifies. For one, equities are strictly paper assets and can thereby be created in an infinite manner. This is how we ended up with a world flooded with $240 quadrillion in derivatives. Gold cannot be produced in such a fashion, and is thus much less susceptible to manipulation.

Think about it for a moment in context: what purpose would it serve TPTB to have gold rise from $300 to over $1000 in less than 5 years? The only thing that a higher gold price has brought TPTB is greater distrust of their rapidly-evaporating dollar. Gold is the ENEMY of the dollar, and TPTB have tried like hell to suppress its price for nearly 30 years.

But now, as we can all clearly see, their manipulation efforts are failing. In their wildest dreams, do you seriously think TPTB want to see $1018 gold flashing across the screen on CNBC?? No. But they are now out of bullets. Because every night when their markets close, the Asian and European markets open and gold proceeds to do its thang – which only proves that TPTB can no longer manipulate the trust and confidence of a world that has been duped. I might add that their manipulation of the stock market, on the other hand, continues unabated, as we have seen a phony rally carry the Dow to nearly 10,000 even as corporate bankruptcies and unemployment surge.

So you tell me: which one is more manipulated and totally out of touch with reality, gold or the Dow? Gold is now speaking the ugly truth about the dollar that TPTB do not want to hear. Equities, on the other hand, continue to sing the sirens song, luring unsuspecting investors to their doom.

As mentioned in my post above, there will most certainly be a time to bail out of metals. But now is not that time. Think of this as the housing market in 2001. We are literally just getting started. The key – as is the case with almost everything in life – will be timing. If you have common sense and are paying attention, you WILL survive in spite of the best efforts of TPTB.

Also, keep in mind that the truly beautiful thing about gold is no matter how hellish this country gets or how much power TPTB exert, gold will continue to have value across borders. If you wake up one day and Obama has lost what’s left of his mind, and you realize that for your own protection and safety you need to get the hell out of Dodge, good luck relocating to another country with your garden seeds and food. Oh, and you may have to leave that house behind. I, on the other hand, will quietly scamper out with gold in my pockets and in a false bottom of a suitcase. And I will begin anew in a country that is more receptive to my needs.

GOLD GIVES YOU OPTIONS.

Lastly, remember that in every catastrophe – from the Depression to the Holocaust – there have been survivors – those who saw the patterns forming and who acted early. You don’t have to out think TPTB. They don’t hope to catch all of us in their net of evil. They know they won’t and can’t fool us all. You just have to out think most of the other sheep around you.

I’ll never forget my first day of law school. The Dean gathered us into an auditorium and proceeded to spin a tale about two campers in the woods. They were lying in a tent when they suddenly heard the unmistakable sound of an approaching bear. The campers jumped up and started running with the bear in hot pursuit. After a few hundred yards, the first camper – completely out of breath – moaned, “This is useless. We’ll never outrun that bear!” The second camper sprinted by him and said, “I don’t have to outrun the bear. I just have to outrun YOU!”

Every person who ignores the flashing red warning lights now and insists on clinging to dollars instead of gold or silver will literally be food for the bear behind us. Do you want to be a snack, UC Gal?

[Arraya]

[quote=CONCHO]High gold makes them look bad and for good reason, they essentially run a ponzi-scheme that requires ever expanding debt with interest attached to it that more debt/money has to be created to pay off. Nobody told them that you can’t have infinite growth in a finite world, I guess.

You’re missing the point of fiat money and inflation; it’s not about growth. It is about putting nations and people in debt to an ever-smaller group of people and then using that debt to control them and relieve them of their hard assets. The sheep think that growth is required by the system, because growth is the only way they can realize their dream of becoming VPPs. Little do they realize that the actual VPPs have a very different future in mind for them.[/quote]

I get the scam. I don’t think you are getting the mechanics of modern fiat money.

All money in existence is debt
All debt in existence has interest owed attached to it
Interest attached to debt/money has not been created yet
New debt/money creation needs to take place to create interest to pay back debt

Credit has been contracting at a pretty good pace for about a year ago. That is DEFLATION, the contraction of money supply.

The Fed counteracted that by creating public debt to take the place of private debt and offset deflation.

The system must keep growing or mass defaults and and deflationary depression ensue.

Consumer credit is still contracting and will continue to do so because of all the defaults, which causes more defaults because banks have to keep money on there books to cover there loses and contract credit due to the rules of fractional reserve banking.

For a “healthy” banking system and credit market, it needs economic growth i.e. new debt slaves to take out debt. Because it needs to create new debt to pay off old debt. If you look around you wont see any. No new debt slaves = the end of the system. It is a ponzi sceme by definition 100%

So, on the banking end we have too major problems a huge amound to bad debt working thru the system AND no economic growth which creates a positive feedback loop causing more defaults. It’s a self reinforcing cycle

As I said above, the Fed counteracted the loss of private debt creation with public debt creation to keep the system for completely collapsing.

The only problem with that is it has a shelf life before other countries that we own money too call foul. Credit will keep contracting, you can see that from the parabilic default rates across all kinds of debt. So the Fed is stuck with just piling on more and more public debt to stop a deflationary collapse for the forseeable future.

Now we are at the point where the whole world does not trust the US financial system, which is essentially the Fed and the consortium of private bankers that run it.

At this point, it’just a matter of time. Actually a US debt default and all the pain that comes with it is probably the best for the long haul. We don’t need to leave future generations with all that debt.

On the physical side of the money equation, and really money is just the human abstraction of the exchange of resources and energy, is the oil. Really there needs to be an equilibrium between the two or the whole system goes screwy. Since debt and money need to constantly expand, do does the energy and matter. One big problem, we live in a finite world governed by the laws of physics and our monetary system does not.

Between 2004 and now oil production stalled, and will in the next few years, start declining. This event renders our debt backed monetary system useless because it will mean a contracting economy for the foreseeable future. Contracting economy means mass defaults, no investment and people not taking out debt because of money mechanics. Complete Systemic Failure.

IMO, Globalization is over, debt based money is over, investing as we understand it is over, stocks, bonds, modern money, pensions, etc… All require exponential continuous growth to remain viable and worth something.

Now, the worlds PTB are trying to figure out how to squash rebellions, keep all there loot and figure out how to run their countries as global capitalism breaks down.

We should see a wave of socialism sweep the globe.

[Arraya]

[quote=CONCHO]High gold makes them look bad and for good reason, they essentially run a ponzi-scheme that requires ever expanding debt with interest attached to it that more debt/money has to be created to pay off. Nobody told them that you can’t have infinite growth in a finite world, I guess.

You’re missing the point of fiat money and inflation; it’s not about growth. It is about putting nations and people in debt to an ever-smaller group of people and then using that debt to control them and relieve them of their hard assets. The sheep think that growth is required by the system, because growth is the only way they can realize their dream of becoming VPPs. Little do they realize that the actual VPPs have a very different future in mind for them.[/quote]

I get the scam. I don’t think you are getting the mechanics of modern fiat money.

All money in existence is debt
All debt in existence has interest owed attached to it
Interest attached to debt/money has not been created yet
New debt/money creation needs to take place to create interest to pay back debt

Credit has been contracting at a pretty good pace for about a year ago. That is DEFLATION, the contraction of money supply.

The Fed counteracted that by creating public debt to take the place of private debt and offset deflation.

The system must keep growing or mass defaults and and deflationary depression ensue.

Consumer credit is still contracting and will continue to do so because of all the defaults, which causes more defaults because banks have to keep money on there books to cover there loses and contract credit due to the rules of fractional reserve banking.

For a “healthy” banking system and credit market, it needs economic growth i.e. new debt slaves to take out debt. Because it needs to create new debt to pay off old debt. If you look around you wont see any. No new debt slaves = the end of the system. It is a ponzi sceme by definition 100%

So, on the banking end we have too major problems a huge amound to bad debt working thru the system AND no economic growth which creates a positive feedback loop causing more defaults. It’s a self reinforcing cycle

As I said above, the Fed counteracted the loss of private debt creation with public debt creation to keep the system for completely collapsing.

The only problem with that is it has a shelf life before other countries that we own money too call foul. Credit will keep contracting, you can see that from the parabilic default rates across all kinds of debt. So the Fed is stuck with just piling on more and more public debt to stop a deflationary collapse for the forseeable future.

Now we are at the point where the whole world does not trust the US financial system, which is essentially the Fed and the consortium of private bankers that run it.

At this point, it’just a matter of time. Actually a US debt default and all the pain that comes with it is probably the best for the long haul. We don’t need to leave future generations with all that debt.

On the physical side of the money equation, and really money is just the human abstraction of the exchange of resources and energy, is the oil. Really there needs to be an equilibrium between the two or the whole system goes screwy. Since debt and money need to constantly expand, do does the energy and matter. One big problem, we live in a finite world governed by the laws of physics and our monetary system does not.

Between 2004 and now oil production stalled, and will in the next few years, start declining. This event renders our debt backed monetary system useless because it will mean a contracting economy for the foreseeable future. Contracting economy means mass defaults, no investment and people not taking out debt because of money mechanics. Complete Systemic Failure.

IMO, Globalization is over, debt based money is over, investing as we understand it is over, stocks, bonds, modern money, pensions, etc… All require exponential continuous growth to remain viable and worth something.

Now, the worlds PTB are trying to figure out how to squash rebellions, keep all there loot and figure out how to run their countries as global capitalism breaks down.

We should see a wave of socialism sweep the globe.

[Arraya]

[quote=CONCHO]High gold makes them look bad and for good reason, they essentially run a ponzi-scheme that requires ever expanding debt with interest attached to it that more debt/money has to be created to pay off. Nobody told them that you can’t have infinite growth in a finite world, I guess.

You’re missing the point of fiat money and inflation; it’s not about growth. It is about putting nations and people in debt to an ever-smaller group of people and then using that debt to control them and relieve them of their hard assets. The sheep think that growth is required by the system, because growth is the only way they can realize their dream of becoming VPPs. Little do they realize that the actual VPPs have a very different future in mind for them.[/quote]

I get the scam. I don’t think you are getting the mechanics of modern fiat money.

All money in existence is debt
All debt in existence has interest owed attached to it
Interest attached to debt/money has not been created yet
New debt/money creation needs to take place to create interest to pay back debt

Credit has been contracting at a pretty good pace for about a year ago. That is DEFLATION, the contraction of money supply.

The Fed counteracted that by creating public debt to take the place of private debt and offset deflation.

The system must keep growing or mass defaults and and deflationary depression ensue.

Consumer credit is still contracting and will continue to do so because of all the defaults, which causes more defaults because banks have to keep money on there books to cover there loses and contract credit due to the rules of fractional reserve banking.

For a “healthy” banking system and credit market, it needs economic growth i.e. new debt slaves to take out debt. Because it needs to create new debt to pay off old debt. If you look around you wont see any. No new debt slaves = the end of the system. It is a ponzi sceme by definition 100%

So, on the banking end we have too major problems a huge amound to bad debt working thru the system AND no economic growth which creates a positive feedback loop causing more defaults. It’s a self reinforcing cycle

As I said above, the Fed counteracted the loss of private debt creation with public debt creation to keep the system for completely collapsing.

The only problem with that is it has a shelf life before other countries that we own money too call foul. Credit will keep contracting, you can see that from the parabilic default rates across all kinds of debt. So the Fed is stuck with just piling on more and more public debt to stop a deflationary collapse for the forseeable future.

Now we are at the point where the whole world does not trust the US financial system, which is essentially the Fed and the consortium of private bankers that run it.

At this point, it’just a matter of time. Actually a US debt default and all the pain that comes with it is probably the best for the long haul. We don’t need to leave future generations with all that debt.

On the physical side of the money equation, and really money is just the human abstraction of the exchange of resources and energy, is the oil. Really there needs to be an equilibrium between the two or the whole system goes screwy. Since debt and money need to constantly expand, do does the energy and matter. One big problem, we live in a finite world governed by the laws of physics and our monetary system does not.

Between 2004 and now oil production stalled, and will in the next few years, start declining. This event renders our debt backed monetary system useless because it will mean a contracting economy for the foreseeable future. Contracting economy means mass defaults, no investment and people not taking out debt because of money mechanics. Complete Systemic Failure.

IMO, Globalization is over, debt based money is over, investing as we understand it is over, stocks, bonds, modern money, pensions, etc… All require exponential continuous growth to remain viable and worth something.

Now, the worlds PTB are trying to figure out how to squash rebellions, keep all there loot and figure out how to run their countries as global capitalism breaks down.

We should see a wave of socialism sweep the globe.

[Arraya]

[quote=CONCHO]High gold makes them look bad and for good reason, they essentially run a ponzi-scheme that requires ever expanding debt with interest attached to it that more debt/money has to be created to pay off. Nobody told them that you can’t have infinite growth in a finite world, I guess.

You’re missing the point of fiat money and inflation; it’s not about growth. It is about putting nations and people in debt to an ever-smaller group of people and then using that debt to control them and relieve them of their hard assets. The sheep think that growth is required by the system, because growth is the only way they can realize their dream of becoming VPPs. Little do they realize that the actual VPPs have a very different future in mind for them.[/quote]

I get the scam. I don’t think you are getting the mechanics of modern fiat money.

All money in existence is debt
All debt in existence has interest owed attached to it
Interest attached to debt/money has not been created yet
New debt/money creation needs to take place to create interest to pay back debt

Credit has been contracting at a pretty good pace for about a year ago. That is DEFLATION, the contraction of money supply.

The Fed counteracted that by creating public debt to take the place of private debt and offset deflation.

The system must keep growing or mass defaults and and deflationary depression ensue.

Consumer credit is still contracting and will continue to do so because of all the defaults, which causes more defaults because banks have to keep money on there books to cover there loses and contract credit due to the rules of fractional reserve banking.

For a “healthy” banking system and credit market, it needs economic growth i.e. new debt slaves to take out debt. Because it needs to create new debt to pay off old debt. If you look around you wont see any. No new debt slaves = the end of the system. It is a ponzi sceme by definition 100%

So, on the banking end we have too major problems a huge amound to bad debt working thru the system AND no economic growth which creates a positive feedback loop causing more defaults. It’s a self reinforcing cycle

As I said above, the Fed counteracted the loss of private debt creation with public debt creation to keep the system for completely collapsing.

The only problem with that is it has a shelf life before other countries that we own money too call foul. Credit will keep contracting, you can see that from the parabilic default rates across all kinds of debt. So the Fed is stuck with just piling on more and more public debt to stop a deflationary collapse for the forseeable future.

Now we are at the point where the whole world does not trust the US financial system, which is essentially the Fed and the consortium of private bankers that run it.

At this point, it’just a matter of time. Actually a US debt default and all the pain that comes with it is probably the best for the long haul. We don’t need to leave future generations with all that debt.

On the physical side of the money equation, and really money is just the human abstraction of the exchange of resources and energy, is the oil. Really there needs to be an equilibrium between the two or the whole system goes screwy. Since debt and money need to constantly expand, do does the energy and matter. One big problem, we live in a finite world governed by the laws of physics and our monetary system does not.

Between 2004 and now oil production stalled, and will in the next few years, start declining. This event renders our debt backed monetary system useless because it will mean a contracting economy for the foreseeable future. Contracting economy means mass defaults, no investment and people not taking out debt because of money mechanics. Complete Systemic Failure.

IMO, Globalization is over, debt based money is over, investing as we understand it is over, stocks, bonds, modern money, pensions, etc… All require exponential continuous growth to remain viable and worth something.

Now, the worlds PTB are trying to figure out how to squash rebellions, keep all there loot and figure out how to run their countries as global capitalism breaks down.

We should see a wave of socialism sweep the globe.

[Arraya]

[quote=CONCHO]High gold makes them look bad and for good reason, they essentially run a ponzi-scheme that requires ever expanding debt with interest attached to it that more debt/money has to be created to pay off. Nobody told them that you can’t have infinite growth in a finite world, I guess.

You’re missing the point of fiat money and inflation; it’s not about growth. It is about putting nations and people in debt to an ever-smaller group of people and then using that debt to control them and relieve them of their hard assets. The sheep think that growth is required by the system, because growth is the only way they can realize their dream of becoming VPPs. Little do they realize that the actual VPPs have a very different future in mind for them.[/quote]

I get the scam. I don’t think you are getting the mechanics of modern fiat money.

All money in existence is debt
All debt in existence has interest owed attached to it
Interest attached to debt/money has not been created yet
New debt/money creation needs to take place to create interest to pay back debt

Credit has been contracting at a pretty good pace for about a year ago. That is DEFLATION, the contraction of money supply.

The Fed counteracted that by creating public debt to take the place of private debt and offset deflation.

The system must keep growing or mass defaults and and deflationary depression ensue.

Consumer credit is still contracting and will continue to do so because of all the defaults, which causes more defaults because banks have to keep money on there books to cover there loses and contract credit due to the rules of fractional reserve banking.

For a “healthy” banking system and credit market, it needs economic growth i.e. new debt slaves to take out debt. Because it needs to create new debt to pay off old debt. If you look around you wont see any. No new debt slaves = the end of the system. It is a ponzi sceme by definition 100%

So, on the banking end we have too major problems a huge amound to bad debt working thru the system AND no economic growth which creates a positive feedback loop causing more defaults. It’s a self reinforcing cycle

As I said above, the Fed counteracted the loss of private debt creation with public debt creation to keep the system for completely collapsing.

The only problem with that is it has a shelf life before other countries that we own money too call foul. Credit will keep contracting, you can see that from the parabilic default rates across all kinds of debt. So the Fed is stuck with just piling on more and more public debt to stop a deflationary collapse for the forseeable future.

Now we are at the point where the whole world does not trust the US financial system, which is essentially the Fed and the consortium of private bankers that run it.

At this point, it’just a matter of time. Actually a US debt default and all the pain that comes with it is probably the best for the long haul. We don’t need to leave future generations with all that debt.

On the physical side of the money equation, and really money is just the human abstraction of the exchange of resources and energy, is the oil. Really there needs to be an equilibrium between the two or the whole system goes screwy. Since debt and money need to constantly expand, do does the energy and matter. One big problem, we live in a finite world governed by the laws of physics and our monetary system does not.

Between 2004 and now oil production stalled, and will in the next few years, start declining. This event renders our debt backed monetary system useless because it will mean a contracting economy for the foreseeable future. Contracting economy means mass defaults, no investment and people not taking out debt because of money mechanics. Complete Systemic Failure.

IMO, Globalization is over, debt based money is over, investing as we understand it is over, stocks, bonds, modern money, pensions, etc… All require exponential continuous growth to remain viable and worth something.

Now, the worlds PTB are trying to figure out how to squash rebellions, keep all there loot and figure out how to run their countries as global capitalism breaks down.

We should see a wave of socialism sweep the globe.

[scaredyclassic]

or things might be ok.

im still in shock that ive made money on gold this year. i literally never make money. i kinda beleive that this is th ebeginning of some big move.

and there’s another voice that says, take your winnings, meager as they are, off the table, and be gratefulf or the few crumbs that fell your way, because you are always wrong.

im about 1/2 in metals, 1/2 in cash, 401k all cash. pretty crayz allocation, really, since I came from normal land justa few short years ago.

[scaredyclassic]

or things might be ok.

im still in shock that ive made money on gold this year. i literally never make money. i kinda beleive that this is th ebeginning of some big move.

and there’s another voice that says, take your winnings, meager as they are, off the table, and be gratefulf or the few crumbs that fell your way, because you are always wrong.

im about 1/2 in metals, 1/2 in cash, 401k all cash. pretty crayz allocation, really, since I came from normal land justa few short years ago.

[scaredyclassic]

or things might be ok.

im still in shock that ive made money on gold this year. i literally never make money. i kinda beleive that this is th ebeginning of some big move.

and there’s another voice that says, take your winnings, meager as they are, off the table, and be gratefulf or the few crumbs that fell your way, because you are always wrong.

im about 1/2 in metals, 1/2 in cash, 401k all cash. pretty crayz allocation, really, since I came from normal land justa few short years ago.

[scaredyclassic]

or things might be ok.

im still in shock that ive made money on gold this year. i literally never make money. i kinda beleive that this is th ebeginning of some big move.

and there’s another voice that says, take your winnings, meager as they are, off the table, and be gratefulf or the few crumbs that fell your way, because you are always wrong.

im about 1/2 in metals, 1/2 in cash, 401k all cash. pretty crayz allocation, really, since I came from normal land justa few short years ago.

[scaredyclassic]

or things might be ok.

im still in shock that ive made money on gold this year. i literally never make money. i kinda beleive that this is th ebeginning of some big move.

and there’s another voice that says, take your winnings, meager as they are, off the table, and be gratefulf or the few crumbs that fell your way, because you are always wrong.

im about 1/2 in metals, 1/2 in cash, 401k all cash. pretty crayz allocation, really, since I came from normal land justa few short years ago.

[4plexowner]

“But now, as we can all clearly see, their manipulation efforts are failing. In their wildest dreams, do you seriously think TPTB want to see $1018 gold flashing across the screen on CNBC??”

in particular the week before a G-20 meeting where they gather and pretend they are in control of everything

[4plexowner]

“But now, as we can all clearly see, their manipulation efforts are failing. In their wildest dreams, do you seriously think TPTB want to see $1018 gold flashing across the screen on CNBC??”

in particular the week before a G-20 meeting where they gather and pretend they are in control of everything

[4plexowner]

“But now, as we can all clearly see, their manipulation efforts are failing. In their wildest dreams, do you seriously think TPTB want to see $1018 gold flashing across the screen on CNBC??”

in particular the week before a G-20 meeting where they gather and pretend they are in control of everything

[4plexowner]

“But now, as we can all clearly see, their manipulation efforts are failing. In their wildest dreams, do you seriously think TPTB want to see $1018 gold flashing across the screen on CNBC??”

in particular the week before a G-20 meeting where they gather and pretend they are in control of everything

[Author]

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