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sdrealtor.
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November 6, 2011 at 3:07 PM #19277November 6, 2011 at 3:24 PM #732340
bearishgurl
ParticipantAt exactly six months and one day to market again, it appears the “flipper” has followed the rules so as not to trigger a “short sale fraud” allegation on the lender who accepted the short. It will be interesting to find out what the property actually sells for in its “flipped” condition.
Keep us posted, joewhite!
November 6, 2011 at 4:41 PM #732344joewhite
ParticipantIt was listed at 2.5 and the agent told me he had 5 offers, one of which was accepted, so I’d guess it went for close to or over list.
I live in the neighborhood and I flagged this as fraudulent when the short sale first went through. It had been listed as a 1.99M short sale shortly before the ultimate transaction. The selling owner, by the way, was a real estate broker,November 6, 2011 at 8:46 PM #732347urbanrealtor
ParticipantI get that its a flip.
I don’t mean to be dumb but, in all seriousness, how is this fraudulent?What misrepresentation appears to have taken place?
That is a serious question.
November 7, 2011 at 12:10 AM #732356ucodegen
Participant[quote=urbanrealtor]I get that its a flip.
I don’t mean to be dumb but, in all seriousness, how is this fraudulent?What misrepresentation appears to have taken place?
That is a serious question.[/quote]
The possible fraud was in mis-representing the value and sale in the short sale. If the short sale went for $1mil, but the actual sale price it would have commanded if the sale was ‘open market’ was $2mil, it is a fraudulent short sale.It would almost be like your broker representing your house on a sale conspiring with another ‘investor/broker’ and stating “I know this guy(you in this case) really doesn’t know what this house is worth so I will tell him it is worth half what we know we can get for it and I’ll get him to sell it to you. We then hold on to the house for a short period of time and then sell it for the real price and split up the difference between us. Your broker (the sellers broker) is supposed to be representing you, the seller, in this transaction.
The fact that it listed exactly 1 day past the ‘watch period’ makes the short sale possibly questionable.
Here is the ‘flip’:
http://www.redfin.com/CA/Malibu/18434-Coastline-Dr-90265/home/6850638Hard to tell how much was just cleaning up and staging. The initial sale didn’t seem that serious. Only 4 photogs on the listing and no attempt at ‘cleanup’. The flip has 29 photogs. Looks like mostly ‘cleanup’ and ‘declutter’, but it is hard to tell because of the lack of photogs on the first listing. The difference might be worth a few 100K, but not 1.5mil.
November 7, 2011 at 9:25 AM #732364Participant[quote=ucodegen]
The possible fraud was in mis-representing the value and sale in the short sale. If the short sale went for $1mil, but the actual sale price it would have commanded if the sale was ‘open market’ was $2mil, it is a fraudulent short sale.It would almost be like your broker representing your house on a sale conspiring with another ‘investor/broker’ and stating “I know this guy(you in this case) really doesn’t know what this house is worth so I will tell him it is worth half what we know we can get for it and I’ll get him to sell it to you. We then hold on to the house for a short period of time and then sell it for the real price and split up the difference between us. Your broker (the sellers broker) is supposed to be representing you, the seller, in this transaction.
The fact that it listed exactly 1 day past the ‘watch period’ makes the short sale possibly questionable.
Here is the ‘flip’:
http://www.redfin.com/CA/Malibu/18434-Coastline-Dr-90265/home/6850638Hard to tell how much was just cleaning up and staging. The initial sale didn’t seem that serious. Only 4 photogs on the listing and no attempt at ‘cleanup’. The flip has 29 photogs. Looks like mostly ‘cleanup’ and ‘declutter’, but it is hard to tell because of the lack of photogs on the first listing. The difference might be worth a few 100K, but not 1.5mil.[/quote]
I see that the price shot up but if the info in the first listing (pre-flip short sale fixer) is accurate, then this would not necessarily tickle my radar.
Those aspects often drive market value down dramatically in areas where the location value is high.
Here is an example:
3675 Villa Terrace is in the middle of Morley Field. It is 2/1.5 and comps around 550k-625k (in summer, probably 5% lower in winter).
This unit is currently on the market for $300k.
Why?
Because the former owner was an autistic shut in who live there for several years without utilities and used the yard and bathtub as a toilet. At some point, months or years ago, he died. Nobody knew about it for some time (unclear how long).
There are Medical Examiner and Biohazard tags on the front and the back door. The landscaping looks like something out of Little Shop of Horrors.
The cleaning job needed will be epic.
But seriously, spend 5k on cleaning, cutting, and painting and you will increase the market value more than $100k.Lets take another example:
In 2009 4227 Alder in Kensington sold for $389k as a short sale.
Current comps show this as worth $600k-$700k in good shape.
Why?
The angry homeowners had pulled every plumbing fixture and cabinet out.
So probably a cash buyer came along and spent an additional $20k replacing toilets, sinks and cabinets and ended up with a free and clear house in one of the most desirable neighborhoods in SD.I don’t think either of these involves fraud.
As far as the Malibu house in question, I would need more information before making that assessment.The red flags for me:
-Agents double ending on the short sale
-Same agent used on the flip
-Seller connections to buyer
-Personal property sales contemporaneous with real estate sale.My two bits
November 7, 2011 at 11:01 AM #732372Participant[quote=urbanrealtor] . . . As far as the Malibu house in question, I would need more information before making that assessment . . . [/quote]
UR, totally agree that some of these “short sale” and “REO” listings are so bad that even the odor inside initially (before beneficiary prep work) will keep potential buyers from remaining in there long enough to consider it. Like the previous Malibu listing stated in the comments, these “heavy fixers” and/or “heavy cleaning jobs” are “not for the weak of heart.”
For that reason, this listing may not have passed the “smell test” but the short-sale transaction did :=}
http://www.redfin.com/CA/Malibu/Coastline-Dr-90265/home/6850638/claw-11-507281
I would guess this listing has probably been a rental for many years.
From the looks of the four photos provided, it appears the eaves around the clerestory windows are rotted or termite eaten and nothing has been done to the inside since the ’60’s.
The vast majority of buyers wouldn’t want to deal with this for $1M.
November 7, 2011 at 8:07 PM #732417ParticipantWas not a rental, and actually owned by a real estate agent (maybe broker?). From private conversations with well-versed agent, they know this was a bogus transaction. Unlike a place a few doors down which has been completely gutted, this place was not completely rebuilt. I would be shocked if more than 100K was put into it.
November 7, 2011 at 9:28 PM #732422sdrealtor
Participant[quote=bearishgurl][quote=urbanrealtor] . . . As far as the Malibu house in question, I would need more information before making that assessment . . . [/quote]
UR, totally agree that some of these “short sale” and “REO” listings are so bad that even the odor inside initially (before beneficiary prep work) will keep potential buyers from remaining in there long enough to consider it. Like the previous Malibu listing stated in the comments, these “heavy fixers” and/or “heavy cleaning jobs” are “not for the weak of heart.”
For that reason, this listing may not have passed the “smell test” but the short-sale transaction did :=}
http://www.redfin.com/CA/Malibu/Coastline-Dr-90265/home/6850638/claw-11-507281
I would guess this listing has probably been a rental for many years.
From the looks of the four photos provided, it appears the eaves around the clerestory windows are rotted or termite eaten and nothing has been done to the inside since the ’60’s.
The vast majority of buyers wouldn’t want to deal with this for $1M.[/quote]
WTF? How do you know what a property in Malibu is worth? $1M could be a steal for land value for all we know. It is so far outside our view it is irresponsible to make comments like you but then again thats what you do. Ready fire errrr …..aim?
November 7, 2011 at 10:02 PM #732425Participant[quote=sdrealtor]WTF? How do you know what a property in Malibu is worth? $1M could be a steal for land value for all we know. It is so far outside our view it is irresponsible to make comments like you but then again thats what you do. Ready fire errrr …..aim?[/quote]
egads, we have our “resident wino” on attack again :=0. You gotta ask yourself if he could ever find another Pigg to “troll behind.”
Glad I could be of “assistance” in opening your latest (albeit, now inebriated) “diatribe,” sdr!
I merely stated that “the vast majority” of buyers don’t want to deal with the work that some short-sale properties and REOs engender, what with the “squatting sellers/defaulting trustors” possibly stripping the place and/or escaping with their “valuables” and leaving their filth and whatever they don’t want, behind. This is “typical behavior” more often than not, the same as it is with an “escaping tenant” who is behind in their rent and about to be evicted (and even an evicted tenant, lol).
I NEVER stated that this property “as-is” (or even the lot it sits on) wasn’t worth $1M! I am familiar with that beach and am headed back up there next month with one of my kids.
What I DID state is that it takes a certain kind of buyer, no matter where and what price range, to purchase a heavy fixer or a heavy cleanup project. The vast majority of buyers are turned off by a project such as this and will walk out of it, even if it is in their price range.
It appears this particular seller hasn’t spent any money in needed repairs/improvements in many years. However, it has obviously been successfully used for its owner’s “ATM machine” due to its “superior location.” Hence, the “short sale” earlier this year. Hail to the “drive-by appraisal” of recent years, lol! I wonder how “short” his/her lenders were finally paid in April of this year :={
November 7, 2011 at 10:10 PM #732426ParticipantSweet Jesus dude.
Give it a rest.As a member of an Irish-Jewish-Mexican-Polish family, listening to you is like the worst of all my family’s ethnic guilt trips combined.
Stop with this shit or I will call your cell phone repeatedly and hang up.
And remember, there is nothing more useless than a Realtor who can’t answer his phone (or doesn’t know if he should because a rogue broker from Hillcrest is just irritated and being a dick in response).
EDIT:
That was directed at sdr but I am thinking maybe it should be directed at both of you.
You realize you now make Adam look like a mature agent right?
Yep, its actually come to that.November 7, 2011 at 10:18 PM #732427Participant[quote=joewhite]Was not a rental, and actually owned by a real estate agent (maybe broker?). From private conversations with well-versed agent, they know this was a bogus transaction. Unlike a place a few doors down which has been completely gutted, this place was not completely rebuilt. I would be shocked if more than 100K was put into it.[/quote]
If this is actually the case, joewhite, the new sales price will likely reflect that as buyers in that particular area aren’t typically “first-timers” OR “dumb.”
November 7, 2011 at 10:18 PM #732428Participant[quote=joewhite]Was not a rental, and actually owned by a real estate agent (maybe broker?). From private conversations with well-versed agent, they know this was a bogus transaction. Unlike a place a few doors down which has been completely gutted, this place was not completely rebuilt. I would be shocked if more than 100K was put into it.[/quote]
So back in the world of adult conversations:
So Joe,
You knew this was a fake deal and were just having a piss?
You do realize agents have these childish (see above thread) and sensationalized discussions all the time.
We do boring things for a living and sometimes try to make it more interesting by saying we know something we don’t.
Its not a big secret.So in the bogus (I don’t yet know if that term applies) transaction, who benefited?
Who was getting a piece at whose expense?
Was the the listing or selling or flipper agent kicking a referral to the original seller?
Please explain.
November 7, 2011 at 10:23 PM #732429ParticipantI’m totally on board with you about the hellholes about to be marketed that you described, UR. I’ve seen a few of them first-hand (and even purchased a couple of them myself in the [distant] past).
They’re not for everyBODY.
Hence, the response to your post today …
November 7, 2011 at 10:47 PM #732431ParticipantDude,
It sounds like the pressure of the biz is getting to you. This is just entertainment for me. I actually earn aliving in this business instead of pretending to.She is a lunatic and sometimes seeing her nonsense is too much for people like SD R and I who actually have some sense of what is going on out there. Yes, while I dont agree with SD R about much we do agree she is nut job of the highest order.
I actually do business in LA along with OC, SD, Riverside and SB counties. I wouldnt begin to comment on the market value of a property in Malibu and I’m an active agent. She hasnt represented a buyer in a transaction in probably a decade!!! Her commenting on values in Malibu is an absolute joke and compeltely ireesponsible.
BTW, Call my cell phone any time. You know I will answer as I always do unless I’m already on the phone.
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