do you know what the federal reserve is?

[investor]

[quote=CONCHO]All of this fancy talk confuses me. I guess I just have 2 questions:

1) Why doesn’t the government operate our national bank? It can print money, it could collect interest on loans and use that revenue to help fund its operations.

2) Why is there a pyramid and all-seeing eye on the back of my cash?

OK I’m ready for the answers now. I’m sure they will be very technical and full of details about public-private partnerships and boards of governors and regional banks, etc…[/quote]

The US government has operated our own money supply in the past. The allure of profit for a central bank is too much to resist and they have sucesfully bought their way into existance 4 times now in US history.The loss of interest paid to the US govenment on loans to other governments is a large loss to the american tax payer as well as instead of making interest on loaning our money, we wind up paying the federal reserve to loan out our own money! As riduculous as this sounds, that is the reality of what is happening.
We have to pressure congress to revoke the fed’s charter and get back to a common sense finanial system. Just as jefferson and A Jackson did in the 1800’s. I don’t see this happening until the current system collapses under huge sovereign debt worldwide. I fear that when that happens, not if, the collapse will be an excuse to start a one world money supply, goverened by one large central bank.

[SK in CV]

[quote=investor]
The loss of interest paid to the US govenment on loans to other governments is a large loss to the american tax payer as well as instead of making interest on loaning our money, we wind up paying the federal reserve to loan out our own money! As riduculous as this sounds, that is the reality of what is happening.
[/quote]

I have no idea what you mean by this. If interest is paid to the US government, then the US government gets it. Are you aware of loans the fed has made to foreign governments directly? (I’m not, they may exist. I’ve just never seen them disclosed. The feds annual financial disclosures do not identify any.) Additionally, the fed is self funding and any net profit that the fed has, over and above it’s statutory dividends (previously noted above), are paid directly to the US government, so there is no “profit” being lost to a private company.

[SK in CV]

[quote=investor]
The loss of interest paid to the US govenment on loans to other governments is a large loss to the american tax payer as well as instead of making interest on loaning our money, we wind up paying the federal reserve to loan out our own money! As riduculous as this sounds, that is the reality of what is happening.
[/quote]

I have no idea what you mean by this. If interest is paid to the US government, then the US government gets it. Are you aware of loans the fed has made to foreign governments directly? (I’m not, they may exist. I’ve just never seen them disclosed. The feds annual financial disclosures do not identify any.) Additionally, the fed is self funding and any net profit that the fed has, over and above it’s statutory dividends (previously noted above), are paid directly to the US government, so there is no “profit” being lost to a private company.

[SK in CV]

[quote=investor]
The loss of interest paid to the US govenment on loans to other governments is a large loss to the american tax payer as well as instead of making interest on loaning our money, we wind up paying the federal reserve to loan out our own money! As riduculous as this sounds, that is the reality of what is happening.
[/quote]

I have no idea what you mean by this. If interest is paid to the US government, then the US government gets it. Are you aware of loans the fed has made to foreign governments directly? (I’m not, they may exist. I’ve just never seen them disclosed. The feds annual financial disclosures do not identify any.) Additionally, the fed is self funding and any net profit that the fed has, over and above it’s statutory dividends (previously noted above), are paid directly to the US government, so there is no “profit” being lost to a private company.

[SK in CV]

[quote=investor]
The loss of interest paid to the US govenment on loans to other governments is a large loss to the american tax payer as well as instead of making interest on loaning our money, we wind up paying the federal reserve to loan out our own money! As riduculous as this sounds, that is the reality of what is happening.
[/quote]

I have no idea what you mean by this. If interest is paid to the US government, then the US government gets it. Are you aware of loans the fed has made to foreign governments directly? (I’m not, they may exist. I’ve just never seen them disclosed. The feds annual financial disclosures do not identify any.) Additionally, the fed is self funding and any net profit that the fed has, over and above it’s statutory dividends (previously noted above), are paid directly to the US government, so there is no “profit” being lost to a private company.

[SK in CV]

[quote=investor]
The loss of interest paid to the US govenment on loans to other governments is a large loss to the american tax payer as well as instead of making interest on loaning our money, we wind up paying the federal reserve to loan out our own money! As riduculous as this sounds, that is the reality of what is happening.
[/quote]

I have no idea what you mean by this. If interest is paid to the US government, then the US government gets it. Are you aware of loans the fed has made to foreign governments directly? (I’m not, they may exist. I’ve just never seen them disclosed. The feds annual financial disclosures do not identify any.) Additionally, the fed is self funding and any net profit that the fed has, over and above it’s statutory dividends (previously noted above), are paid directly to the US government, so there is no “profit” being lost to a private company.

[Arraya]

http://www.cnbc.com/id/29880401/The_Biggest_Holders_of_US_Government_Debt?slide=16
That’s right, the biggest holder of US government debt is actually inside the United States. The Federal Reserve system of banks and other US intragovernmental holdings account for a stunning $5.127 trillion in US Treasury debt. This is the most recent number available (Sept 2009), and is at an all-time high, rising in every reporting period since 2007. About a decade ago, the total government holdings were “only” $2.5 trillion.

[Arraya]

http://www.cnbc.com/id/29880401/The_Biggest_Holders_of_US_Government_Debt?slide=16
That’s right, the biggest holder of US government debt is actually inside the United States. The Federal Reserve system of banks and other US intragovernmental holdings account for a stunning $5.127 trillion in US Treasury debt. This is the most recent number available (Sept 2009), and is at an all-time high, rising in every reporting period since 2007. About a decade ago, the total government holdings were “only” $2.5 trillion.

[Arraya]

http://www.cnbc.com/id/29880401/The_Biggest_Holders_of_US_Government_Debt?slide=16
That’s right, the biggest holder of US government debt is actually inside the United States. The Federal Reserve system of banks and other US intragovernmental holdings account for a stunning $5.127 trillion in US Treasury debt. This is the most recent number available (Sept 2009), and is at an all-time high, rising in every reporting period since 2007. About a decade ago, the total government holdings were “only” $2.5 trillion.

[Arraya]

http://www.cnbc.com/id/29880401/The_Biggest_Holders_of_US_Government_Debt?slide=16
That’s right, the biggest holder of US government debt is actually inside the United States. The Federal Reserve system of banks and other US intragovernmental holdings account for a stunning $5.127 trillion in US Treasury debt. This is the most recent number available (Sept 2009), and is at an all-time high, rising in every reporting period since 2007. About a decade ago, the total government holdings were “only” $2.5 trillion.

[Arraya]

http://www.cnbc.com/id/29880401/The_Biggest_Holders_of_US_Government_Debt?slide=16
That’s right, the biggest holder of US government debt is actually inside the United States. The Federal Reserve system of banks and other US intragovernmental holdings account for a stunning $5.127 trillion in US Treasury debt. This is the most recent number available (Sept 2009), and is at an all-time high, rising in every reporting period since 2007. About a decade ago, the total government holdings were “only” $2.5 trillion.

[davelj]

[quote=BillS78][quote=davelj]”You really need to educate yourself.” OK, Professor. Will do! Before I get to that however…

Right, the 12 regional Fed Banks don’t comprise the entire system – and thus don’t “own” the system. You have to add in the Board of Governors which, via the FOMC, sets monetary policy. The ownership of the 12 regional Fed Banks is explained below.[/quote]

[quote=BillS78]
Dave, seriously, stop posting and go educate yourself because you still don’t get it and your ignorance is frightening.[/quote]

There you go again… more ad hominem. If my ignorance is frightening… how does the ignorance of someone who bought a house near the peak of the bubble compare? That’s a rhetorical question.

[quote=BillS78]
Anyone with a brain knows the NY fed runs the show. The idea that the 11 other regional fed banks have any real impact is just stupid. I understand why the FRB’s website would stress all 12 regional banks(propaganda) but why do you continue to bring them up?[/quote]

You’ve made a classic straw man argument here. I never stated nor implied that the NY Fed didn’t have a disproportionate amount of control within the Fed System. Anyone familiar with money and banking knows that the NY Fed is at the hub of decision-making (and power) within the system. But the OP was referencing “ownership,” and that is what I have been addressing. It should come as no surprise that the largest banks in the US comprise the largest shareholders of the NY Fed and that, by extension, the CEOs of these banks (representing their own shareholders) wield a lot of influence over the NY Fed and, by extension, the entire Fed System. And in a previous post, I alluded to the fact that “a small group of folks (the wealthy, politicians, etc.) have undue INFLUENCE” over the Fed. So, your straw man argument that I am unwilling to acknowledge a concentration of power and influence by the NY Fed within the Fed System is patently ridiculous. You’re reading something into my posts that simply isn’t there.

[quote=BillS78]
Do you know which organization ran the $1.25 trillion MBS purchase program, or who took on the $30 billion worth of toxic assets in the Bear Sterns – JP Morgan deal? I’ll give you a hint: It wasn’t the regional fed banks of Boston, Philadelphia, Cleveland, Richmond, Atlanta, Chicago, St. Louis, Minneapolis, Kansas City, Dallas, or San Francisco.[/quote]

Again… no one is arguing that the NY Fed isn’t the Big Daddy within the Fed System, so this is a Blinding Glimpse of the Obvious.
[quote=BillS78]
The federal reserve system was formed 100 years ago by JP Morgan, the Goldman & Sachs family, and others. These family banks have morphed into massive corporations but they’re are still the few entities who own the Fed. Look at who’s controlled all the action, the history of who’s on the NY feds board of directors, or the background of almost all of our treasury secretaries. The silly thing is that this isn’t some great hidden conspiracy, it’s basic business that’s out in the open for all to see but too many like you are too ignorant to bother educating yourselves.[/quote]

More of the straw man argument.

[quote=BillS78]
Only an ignorant fool like yourself thinks that the fed is controlled by some widespread group made up from the 12 regional banks.[/quote]

Apparently you’re having a problem understanding the difference between “ownership” (which is a legal term) and “control” (which is a political issue). Go back and re-read my posts if you doubt that I’ve been discussing ownership. (Again, I’ve already acknowledged – before you bothered to post – that a relatively small group largely influences the machinations in our financial system.)

Anyhow, Bill, it appears that you’ve been at this site for about 2 months. And you’ve only made a handful of posts. And you’ve already divulged the embarrassing truth about being dumb enough to buy a house near the peak. (Which casts a very dark cloud over your purported understanding of anything vaguely financial, frankly.) Your specialty appears to be a pedantic rebuttal of straw man arguments coupled with ad hominem attacks. And for some unknown reason, you clearly think very highly of yourself. Even the folks here who vehemently disagree on issues do a far better job of conducting themselves than I’ve seen from you thus far. Thus, I doubt you’ll last very long. But, we’ll see.

[davelj]

[quote=BillS78][quote=davelj]”You really need to educate yourself.” OK, Professor. Will do! Before I get to that however…

Right, the 12 regional Fed Banks don’t comprise the entire system – and thus don’t “own” the system. You have to add in the Board of Governors which, via the FOMC, sets monetary policy. The ownership of the 12 regional Fed Banks is explained below.[/quote]

[quote=BillS78]
Dave, seriously, stop posting and go educate yourself because you still don’t get it and your ignorance is frightening.[/quote]

There you go again… more ad hominem. If my ignorance is frightening… how does the ignorance of someone who bought a house near the peak of the bubble compare? That’s a rhetorical question.

[quote=BillS78]
Anyone with a brain knows the NY fed runs the show. The idea that the 11 other regional fed banks have any real impact is just stupid. I understand why the FRB’s website would stress all 12 regional banks(propaganda) but why do you continue to bring them up?[/quote]

You’ve made a classic straw man argument here. I never stated nor implied that the NY Fed didn’t have a disproportionate amount of control within the Fed System. Anyone familiar with money and banking knows that the NY Fed is at the hub of decision-making (and power) within the system. But the OP was referencing “ownership,” and that is what I have been addressing. It should come as no surprise that the largest banks in the US comprise the largest shareholders of the NY Fed and that, by extension, the CEOs of these banks (representing their own shareholders) wield a lot of influence over the NY Fed and, by extension, the entire Fed System. And in a previous post, I alluded to the fact that “a small group of folks (the wealthy, politicians, etc.) have undue INFLUENCE” over the Fed. So, your straw man argument that I am unwilling to acknowledge a concentration of power and influence by the NY Fed within the Fed System is patently ridiculous. You’re reading something into my posts that simply isn’t there.

[quote=BillS78]
Do you know which organization ran the $1.25 trillion MBS purchase program, or who took on the $30 billion worth of toxic assets in the Bear Sterns – JP Morgan deal? I’ll give you a hint: It wasn’t the regional fed banks of Boston, Philadelphia, Cleveland, Richmond, Atlanta, Chicago, St. Louis, Minneapolis, Kansas City, Dallas, or San Francisco.[/quote]

Again… no one is arguing that the NY Fed isn’t the Big Daddy within the Fed System, so this is a Blinding Glimpse of the Obvious.
[quote=BillS78]
The federal reserve system was formed 100 years ago by JP Morgan, the Goldman & Sachs family, and others. These family banks have morphed into massive corporations but they’re are still the few entities who own the Fed. Look at who’s controlled all the action, the history of who’s on the NY feds board of directors, or the background of almost all of our treasury secretaries. The silly thing is that this isn’t some great hidden conspiracy, it’s basic business that’s out in the open for all to see but too many like you are too ignorant to bother educating yourselves.[/quote]

More of the straw man argument.

[quote=BillS78]
Only an ignorant fool like yourself thinks that the fed is controlled by some widespread group made up from the 12 regional banks.[/quote]

Apparently you’re having a problem understanding the difference between “ownership” (which is a legal term) and “control” (which is a political issue). Go back and re-read my posts if you doubt that I’ve been discussing ownership. (Again, I’ve already acknowledged – before you bothered to post – that a relatively small group largely influences the machinations in our financial system.)

Anyhow, Bill, it appears that you’ve been at this site for about 2 months. And you’ve only made a handful of posts. And you’ve already divulged the embarrassing truth about being dumb enough to buy a house near the peak. (Which casts a very dark cloud over your purported understanding of anything vaguely financial, frankly.) Your specialty appears to be a pedantic rebuttal of straw man arguments coupled with ad hominem attacks. And for some unknown reason, you clearly think very highly of yourself. Even the folks here who vehemently disagree on issues do a far better job of conducting themselves than I’ve seen from you thus far. Thus, I doubt you’ll last very long. But, we’ll see.

[davelj]

[quote=BillS78][quote=davelj]”You really need to educate yourself.” OK, Professor. Will do! Before I get to that however…

Right, the 12 regional Fed Banks don’t comprise the entire system – and thus don’t “own” the system. You have to add in the Board of Governors which, via the FOMC, sets monetary policy. The ownership of the 12 regional Fed Banks is explained below.[/quote]

[quote=BillS78]
Dave, seriously, stop posting and go educate yourself because you still don’t get it and your ignorance is frightening.[/quote]

There you go again… more ad hominem. If my ignorance is frightening… how does the ignorance of someone who bought a house near the peak of the bubble compare? That’s a rhetorical question.

[quote=BillS78]
Anyone with a brain knows the NY fed runs the show. The idea that the 11 other regional fed banks have any real impact is just stupid. I understand why the FRB’s website would stress all 12 regional banks(propaganda) but why do you continue to bring them up?[/quote]

You’ve made a classic straw man argument here. I never stated nor implied that the NY Fed didn’t have a disproportionate amount of control within the Fed System. Anyone familiar with money and banking knows that the NY Fed is at the hub of decision-making (and power) within the system. But the OP was referencing “ownership,” and that is what I have been addressing. It should come as no surprise that the largest banks in the US comprise the largest shareholders of the NY Fed and that, by extension, the CEOs of these banks (representing their own shareholders) wield a lot of influence over the NY Fed and, by extension, the entire Fed System. And in a previous post, I alluded to the fact that “a small group of folks (the wealthy, politicians, etc.) have undue INFLUENCE” over the Fed. So, your straw man argument that I am unwilling to acknowledge a concentration of power and influence by the NY Fed within the Fed System is patently ridiculous. You’re reading something into my posts that simply isn’t there.

[quote=BillS78]
Do you know which organization ran the $1.25 trillion MBS purchase program, or who took on the $30 billion worth of toxic assets in the Bear Sterns – JP Morgan deal? I’ll give you a hint: It wasn’t the regional fed banks of Boston, Philadelphia, Cleveland, Richmond, Atlanta, Chicago, St. Louis, Minneapolis, Kansas City, Dallas, or San Francisco.[/quote]

Again… no one is arguing that the NY Fed isn’t the Big Daddy within the Fed System, so this is a Blinding Glimpse of the Obvious.
[quote=BillS78]
The federal reserve system was formed 100 years ago by JP Morgan, the Goldman & Sachs family, and others. These family banks have morphed into massive corporations but they’re are still the few entities who own the Fed. Look at who’s controlled all the action, the history of who’s on the NY feds board of directors, or the background of almost all of our treasury secretaries. The silly thing is that this isn’t some great hidden conspiracy, it’s basic business that’s out in the open for all to see but too many like you are too ignorant to bother educating yourselves.[/quote]

More of the straw man argument.

[quote=BillS78]
Only an ignorant fool like yourself thinks that the fed is controlled by some widespread group made up from the 12 regional banks.[/quote]

Apparently you’re having a problem understanding the difference between “ownership” (which is a legal term) and “control” (which is a political issue). Go back and re-read my posts if you doubt that I’ve been discussing ownership. (Again, I’ve already acknowledged – before you bothered to post – that a relatively small group largely influences the machinations in our financial system.)

Anyhow, Bill, it appears that you’ve been at this site for about 2 months. And you’ve only made a handful of posts. And you’ve already divulged the embarrassing truth about being dumb enough to buy a house near the peak. (Which casts a very dark cloud over your purported understanding of anything vaguely financial, frankly.) Your specialty appears to be a pedantic rebuttal of straw man arguments coupled with ad hominem attacks. And for some unknown reason, you clearly think very highly of yourself. Even the folks here who vehemently disagree on issues do a far better job of conducting themselves than I’ve seen from you thus far. Thus, I doubt you’ll last very long. But, we’ll see.

[davelj]

[quote=BillS78][quote=davelj]”You really need to educate yourself.” OK, Professor. Will do! Before I get to that however…

Right, the 12 regional Fed Banks don’t comprise the entire system – and thus don’t “own” the system. You have to add in the Board of Governors which, via the FOMC, sets monetary policy. The ownership of the 12 regional Fed Banks is explained below.[/quote]

[quote=BillS78]
Dave, seriously, stop posting and go educate yourself because you still don’t get it and your ignorance is frightening.[/quote]

There you go again… more ad hominem. If my ignorance is frightening… how does the ignorance of someone who bought a house near the peak of the bubble compare? That’s a rhetorical question.

[quote=BillS78]
Anyone with a brain knows the NY fed runs the show. The idea that the 11 other regional fed banks have any real impact is just stupid. I understand why the FRB’s website would stress all 12 regional banks(propaganda) but why do you continue to bring them up?[/quote]

You’ve made a classic straw man argument here. I never stated nor implied that the NY Fed didn’t have a disproportionate amount of control within the Fed System. Anyone familiar with money and banking knows that the NY Fed is at the hub of decision-making (and power) within the system. But the OP was referencing “ownership,” and that is what I have been addressing. It should come as no surprise that the largest banks in the US comprise the largest shareholders of the NY Fed and that, by extension, the CEOs of these banks (representing their own shareholders) wield a lot of influence over the NY Fed and, by extension, the entire Fed System. And in a previous post, I alluded to the fact that “a small group of folks (the wealthy, politicians, etc.) have undue INFLUENCE” over the Fed. So, your straw man argument that I am unwilling to acknowledge a concentration of power and influence by the NY Fed within the Fed System is patently ridiculous. You’re reading something into my posts that simply isn’t there.

[quote=BillS78]
Do you know which organization ran the $1.25 trillion MBS purchase program, or who took on the $30 billion worth of toxic assets in the Bear Sterns – JP Morgan deal? I’ll give you a hint: It wasn’t the regional fed banks of Boston, Philadelphia, Cleveland, Richmond, Atlanta, Chicago, St. Louis, Minneapolis, Kansas City, Dallas, or San Francisco.[/quote]

Again… no one is arguing that the NY Fed isn’t the Big Daddy within the Fed System, so this is a Blinding Glimpse of the Obvious.
[quote=BillS78]
The federal reserve system was formed 100 years ago by JP Morgan, the Goldman & Sachs family, and others. These family banks have morphed into massive corporations but they’re are still the few entities who own the Fed. Look at who’s controlled all the action, the history of who’s on the NY feds board of directors, or the background of almost all of our treasury secretaries. The silly thing is that this isn’t some great hidden conspiracy, it’s basic business that’s out in the open for all to see but too many like you are too ignorant to bother educating yourselves.[/quote]

More of the straw man argument.

[quote=BillS78]
Only an ignorant fool like yourself thinks that the fed is controlled by some widespread group made up from the 12 regional banks.[/quote]

Apparently you’re having a problem understanding the difference between “ownership” (which is a legal term) and “control” (which is a political issue). Go back and re-read my posts if you doubt that I’ve been discussing ownership. (Again, I’ve already acknowledged – before you bothered to post – that a relatively small group largely influences the machinations in our financial system.)

Anyhow, Bill, it appears that you’ve been at this site for about 2 months. And you’ve only made a handful of posts. And you’ve already divulged the embarrassing truth about being dumb enough to buy a house near the peak. (Which casts a very dark cloud over your purported understanding of anything vaguely financial, frankly.) Your specialty appears to be a pedantic rebuttal of straw man arguments coupled with ad hominem attacks. And for some unknown reason, you clearly think very highly of yourself. Even the folks here who vehemently disagree on issues do a far better job of conducting themselves than I’ve seen from you thus far. Thus, I doubt you’ll last very long. But, we’ll see.

[Author]

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