Democrats intent on destroying middle class with $11 gas

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Coop: Thanks for the response, and the information. I have been checking yours and the other links. This is some fascinating stuff. My interest is predominantly in foreign policy, but I love a good back and forth discussion (argument?), and this info certainly provides fallow ground for both sides of it.

[jficquette]

[quote=arraya]This program to become energy independence would take 20 years but had we started Anwar in 1995 we would now be getting a 2 mill barrels a day

That is ironically, speculation. I actually support drilling in ANWAR. Good thing we did not sell that oil @ $11 per barrel like the Republicans wanted, huh?

[/quote]

My primary concern with gas prices is how it affects those that can least afford to pay it.

Its not fair to those making $25 to 30k a year to have to suddenly fork over $5 dollars a gallon in gas.

Some of this board talk about $10-11-15 dollar gas and don’t seem to care about how it will affect the lower income classes.

Real alternatives to fossil fuels are 30-50 years away. Real alternatives are fusion power, anti matter reactors, anti gravity devices, high temperature superconducing materials etc.

Anti Matter reactors are probably 30 years away. check out this Nasa article.

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/news/topstory/2006/antimatter_spaceship.html

In short my suggestion is to go all out and develop as much energy as we can over the next 20-30 years to lower the price to where our economy can function as before and in the mean time develop through science real alternatives to fossil fuels. The final goal would be make fossil fuels entirely obsolete.

This commitment to real alternatives would be part of the National initiative to energy independence.

I don’t consider cars that you have to plug into the power grid at night real alternatives. For one where do you think the electricity comes from? It still has to be produced from fossil fuels.

John

[jficquette]

[quote=arraya]This program to become energy independence would take 20 years but had we started Anwar in 1995 we would now be getting a 2 mill barrels a day

That is ironically, speculation. I actually support drilling in ANWAR. Good thing we did not sell that oil @ $11 per barrel like the Republicans wanted, huh?

[/quote]

My primary concern with gas prices is how it affects those that can least afford to pay it.

Its not fair to those making $25 to 30k a year to have to suddenly fork over $5 dollars a gallon in gas.

Some of this board talk about $10-11-15 dollar gas and don’t seem to care about how it will affect the lower income classes.

Real alternatives to fossil fuels are 30-50 years away. Real alternatives are fusion power, anti matter reactors, anti gravity devices, high temperature superconducing materials etc.

Anti Matter reactors are probably 30 years away. check out this Nasa article.

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/news/topstory/2006/antimatter_spaceship.html

In short my suggestion is to go all out and develop as much energy as we can over the next 20-30 years to lower the price to where our economy can function as before and in the mean time develop through science real alternatives to fossil fuels. The final goal would be make fossil fuels entirely obsolete.

This commitment to real alternatives would be part of the National initiative to energy independence.

I don’t consider cars that you have to plug into the power grid at night real alternatives. For one where do you think the electricity comes from? It still has to be produced from fossil fuels.

John

[jficquette]

[quote=arraya]This program to become energy independence would take 20 years but had we started Anwar in 1995 we would now be getting a 2 mill barrels a day

That is ironically, speculation. I actually support drilling in ANWAR. Good thing we did not sell that oil @ $11 per barrel like the Republicans wanted, huh?

[/quote]

My primary concern with gas prices is how it affects those that can least afford to pay it.

Its not fair to those making $25 to 30k a year to have to suddenly fork over $5 dollars a gallon in gas.

Some of this board talk about $10-11-15 dollar gas and don’t seem to care about how it will affect the lower income classes.

Real alternatives to fossil fuels are 30-50 years away. Real alternatives are fusion power, anti matter reactors, anti gravity devices, high temperature superconducing materials etc.

Anti Matter reactors are probably 30 years away. check out this Nasa article.

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/news/topstory/2006/antimatter_spaceship.html

In short my suggestion is to go all out and develop as much energy as we can over the next 20-30 years to lower the price to where our economy can function as before and in the mean time develop through science real alternatives to fossil fuels. The final goal would be make fossil fuels entirely obsolete.

This commitment to real alternatives would be part of the National initiative to energy independence.

I don’t consider cars that you have to plug into the power grid at night real alternatives. For one where do you think the electricity comes from? It still has to be produced from fossil fuels.

John

[jficquette]

[quote=arraya]This program to become energy independence would take 20 years but had we started Anwar in 1995 we would now be getting a 2 mill barrels a day

That is ironically, speculation. I actually support drilling in ANWAR. Good thing we did not sell that oil @ $11 per barrel like the Republicans wanted, huh?

[/quote]

My primary concern with gas prices is how it affects those that can least afford to pay it.

Its not fair to those making $25 to 30k a year to have to suddenly fork over $5 dollars a gallon in gas.

Some of this board talk about $10-11-15 dollar gas and don’t seem to care about how it will affect the lower income classes.

Real alternatives to fossil fuels are 30-50 years away. Real alternatives are fusion power, anti matter reactors, anti gravity devices, high temperature superconducing materials etc.

Anti Matter reactors are probably 30 years away. check out this Nasa article.

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/news/topstory/2006/antimatter_spaceship.html

In short my suggestion is to go all out and develop as much energy as we can over the next 20-30 years to lower the price to where our economy can function as before and in the mean time develop through science real alternatives to fossil fuels. The final goal would be make fossil fuels entirely obsolete.

This commitment to real alternatives would be part of the National initiative to energy independence.

I don’t consider cars that you have to plug into the power grid at night real alternatives. For one where do you think the electricity comes from? It still has to be produced from fossil fuels.

John

[jficquette]

[quote=arraya]This program to become energy independence would take 20 years but had we started Anwar in 1995 we would now be getting a 2 mill barrels a day

That is ironically, speculation. I actually support drilling in ANWAR. Good thing we did not sell that oil @ $11 per barrel like the Republicans wanted, huh?

[/quote]

My primary concern with gas prices is how it affects those that can least afford to pay it.

Its not fair to those making $25 to 30k a year to have to suddenly fork over $5 dollars a gallon in gas.

Some of this board talk about $10-11-15 dollar gas and don’t seem to care about how it will affect the lower income classes.

Real alternatives to fossil fuels are 30-50 years away. Real alternatives are fusion power, anti matter reactors, anti gravity devices, high temperature superconducing materials etc.

Anti Matter reactors are probably 30 years away. check out this Nasa article.

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/news/topstory/2006/antimatter_spaceship.html

In short my suggestion is to go all out and develop as much energy as we can over the next 20-30 years to lower the price to where our economy can function as before and in the mean time develop through science real alternatives to fossil fuels. The final goal would be make fossil fuels entirely obsolete.

This commitment to real alternatives would be part of the National initiative to energy independence.

I don’t consider cars that you have to plug into the power grid at night real alternatives. For one where do you think the electricity comes from? It still has to be produced from fossil fuels.

John

[Arraya]

My primary concern with gas prices is how it affects those that can least afford to pay it.

Jficuette-I have been following this issue for a few years now and what the peak oil community has been saying and predicting is now coming true right when they said it would.

It’s nice that you are concerned for people but where were you years ago? I’ve been posting on this site for like 18 months on this issue and I get marginalized as a “chicken little”

Poor Roscoe Bartlett has been doing presentations on this in congress for like 5 years and nobody goes to it.

The Government has done studies on this in the 50s, 70s and back in 05. Google Hirsch report. All pointing to a peak between 2005-2015

World oil supply is peaking as every well and region does. All that drilling will do is line the oil industries pockets in the future and have a negligible effect on prices in the future.

Speculation discussion is silly and a monumental DISTRACTION when the FUNDAMENTALs are what they are.

If anybody is interested in a good information on this issue here are some sites.

http://www.theoildrum.com
http://www.theenergybulliten.com
http://www.aspo-usa.com/

These price increases are nothing compared to what they will be when we fall off the plateau we are on now. Which looks like it could start within the next 18 months.

“The peaking of world oil production presents the U.S. and the world with an unprecedented risk management problem. As peaking is approached, liquid fuel prices and price volatility will increase dramatically, and, without timely mitigation, the economic, social, and political costs will be unprecedented. Viable mitigation options exist on both the supply and demand sides, but to have substantial impact, they must be initiated more than a decade in advance of peaking.”-Hirsh

Retired geologist Colin Campbell (Texaco, BP, Amoco) cautioned:

Throughout history, people have had difficulty in distinguishing reality from illusion. Reality is what happens, whereas illusion is what we would like to happen. Wishful thinking is a well-worn expression. Momentum is still another element: we tend to assume that things keep moving in the same direction.
The world now faces a discontinuity of historic proportions, as nature shows her hand by imposing a new energy reality. There are vested interests on all sides hoping somehow to evade the iron grip of oil depletion, or at least to put it off until after the next election or until they can develop some strategy for their personal or corporate survival. As the moment of truth approaches, so does the heat, the deceptions, the half-truth and the flat out lies.

My prediction is that with each uptick in oil price will be associated with an equivalent increase in delusional thinking.

[Arraya]

My primary concern with gas prices is how it affects those that can least afford to pay it.

Jficuette-I have been following this issue for a few years now and what the peak oil community has been saying and predicting is now coming true right when they said it would.

It’s nice that you are concerned for people but where were you years ago? I’ve been posting on this site for like 18 months on this issue and I get marginalized as a “chicken little”

Poor Roscoe Bartlett has been doing presentations on this in congress for like 5 years and nobody goes to it.

The Government has done studies on this in the 50s, 70s and back in 05. Google Hirsch report. All pointing to a peak between 2005-2015

World oil supply is peaking as every well and region does. All that drilling will do is line the oil industries pockets in the future and have a negligible effect on prices in the future.

Speculation discussion is silly and a monumental DISTRACTION when the FUNDAMENTALs are what they are.

If anybody is interested in a good information on this issue here are some sites.

http://www.theoildrum.com
http://www.theenergybulliten.com
http://www.aspo-usa.com/

These price increases are nothing compared to what they will be when we fall off the plateau we are on now. Which looks like it could start within the next 18 months.

“The peaking of world oil production presents the U.S. and the world with an unprecedented risk management problem. As peaking is approached, liquid fuel prices and price volatility will increase dramatically, and, without timely mitigation, the economic, social, and political costs will be unprecedented. Viable mitigation options exist on both the supply and demand sides, but to have substantial impact, they must be initiated more than a decade in advance of peaking.”-Hirsh

Retired geologist Colin Campbell (Texaco, BP, Amoco) cautioned:

Throughout history, people have had difficulty in distinguishing reality from illusion. Reality is what happens, whereas illusion is what we would like to happen. Wishful thinking is a well-worn expression. Momentum is still another element: we tend to assume that things keep moving in the same direction.
The world now faces a discontinuity of historic proportions, as nature shows her hand by imposing a new energy reality. There are vested interests on all sides hoping somehow to evade the iron grip of oil depletion, or at least to put it off until after the next election or until they can develop some strategy for their personal or corporate survival. As the moment of truth approaches, so does the heat, the deceptions, the half-truth and the flat out lies.

My prediction is that with each uptick in oil price will be associated with an equivalent increase in delusional thinking.

[Arraya]

My primary concern with gas prices is how it affects those that can least afford to pay it.

Jficuette-I have been following this issue for a few years now and what the peak oil community has been saying and predicting is now coming true right when they said it would.

It’s nice that you are concerned for people but where were you years ago? I’ve been posting on this site for like 18 months on this issue and I get marginalized as a “chicken little”

Poor Roscoe Bartlett has been doing presentations on this in congress for like 5 years and nobody goes to it.

The Government has done studies on this in the 50s, 70s and back in 05. Google Hirsch report. All pointing to a peak between 2005-2015

World oil supply is peaking as every well and region does. All that drilling will do is line the oil industries pockets in the future and have a negligible effect on prices in the future.

Speculation discussion is silly and a monumental DISTRACTION when the FUNDAMENTALs are what they are.

If anybody is interested in a good information on this issue here are some sites.

http://www.theoildrum.com
http://www.theenergybulliten.com
http://www.aspo-usa.com/

These price increases are nothing compared to what they will be when we fall off the plateau we are on now. Which looks like it could start within the next 18 months.

“The peaking of world oil production presents the U.S. and the world with an unprecedented risk management problem. As peaking is approached, liquid fuel prices and price volatility will increase dramatically, and, without timely mitigation, the economic, social, and political costs will be unprecedented. Viable mitigation options exist on both the supply and demand sides, but to have substantial impact, they must be initiated more than a decade in advance of peaking.”-Hirsh

Retired geologist Colin Campbell (Texaco, BP, Amoco) cautioned:

Throughout history, people have had difficulty in distinguishing reality from illusion. Reality is what happens, whereas illusion is what we would like to happen. Wishful thinking is a well-worn expression. Momentum is still another element: we tend to assume that things keep moving in the same direction.
The world now faces a discontinuity of historic proportions, as nature shows her hand by imposing a new energy reality. There are vested interests on all sides hoping somehow to evade the iron grip of oil depletion, or at least to put it off until after the next election or until they can develop some strategy for their personal or corporate survival. As the moment of truth approaches, so does the heat, the deceptions, the half-truth and the flat out lies.

My prediction is that with each uptick in oil price will be associated with an equivalent increase in delusional thinking.

[Arraya]

My primary concern with gas prices is how it affects those that can least afford to pay it.

Jficuette-I have been following this issue for a few years now and what the peak oil community has been saying and predicting is now coming true right when they said it would.

It’s nice that you are concerned for people but where were you years ago? I’ve been posting on this site for like 18 months on this issue and I get marginalized as a “chicken little”

Poor Roscoe Bartlett has been doing presentations on this in congress for like 5 years and nobody goes to it.

The Government has done studies on this in the 50s, 70s and back in 05. Google Hirsch report. All pointing to a peak between 2005-2015

World oil supply is peaking as every well and region does. All that drilling will do is line the oil industries pockets in the future and have a negligible effect on prices in the future.

Speculation discussion is silly and a monumental DISTRACTION when the FUNDAMENTALs are what they are.

If anybody is interested in a good information on this issue here are some sites.

http://www.theoildrum.com
http://www.theenergybulliten.com
http://www.aspo-usa.com/

These price increases are nothing compared to what they will be when we fall off the plateau we are on now. Which looks like it could start within the next 18 months.

“The peaking of world oil production presents the U.S. and the world with an unprecedented risk management problem. As peaking is approached, liquid fuel prices and price volatility will increase dramatically, and, without timely mitigation, the economic, social, and political costs will be unprecedented. Viable mitigation options exist on both the supply and demand sides, but to have substantial impact, they must be initiated more than a decade in advance of peaking.”-Hirsh

Retired geologist Colin Campbell (Texaco, BP, Amoco) cautioned:

Throughout history, people have had difficulty in distinguishing reality from illusion. Reality is what happens, whereas illusion is what we would like to happen. Wishful thinking is a well-worn expression. Momentum is still another element: we tend to assume that things keep moving in the same direction.
The world now faces a discontinuity of historic proportions, as nature shows her hand by imposing a new energy reality. There are vested interests on all sides hoping somehow to evade the iron grip of oil depletion, or at least to put it off until after the next election or until they can develop some strategy for their personal or corporate survival. As the moment of truth approaches, so does the heat, the deceptions, the half-truth and the flat out lies.

My prediction is that with each uptick in oil price will be associated with an equivalent increase in delusional thinking.

[Arraya]

My primary concern with gas prices is how it affects those that can least afford to pay it.

Jficuette-I have been following this issue for a few years now and what the peak oil community has been saying and predicting is now coming true right when they said it would.

It’s nice that you are concerned for people but where were you years ago? I’ve been posting on this site for like 18 months on this issue and I get marginalized as a “chicken little”

Poor Roscoe Bartlett has been doing presentations on this in congress for like 5 years and nobody goes to it.

The Government has done studies on this in the 50s, 70s and back in 05. Google Hirsch report. All pointing to a peak between 2005-2015

World oil supply is peaking as every well and region does. All that drilling will do is line the oil industries pockets in the future and have a negligible effect on prices in the future.

Speculation discussion is silly and a monumental DISTRACTION when the FUNDAMENTALs are what they are.

If anybody is interested in a good information on this issue here are some sites.

http://www.theoildrum.com
http://www.theenergybulliten.com
http://www.aspo-usa.com/

These price increases are nothing compared to what they will be when we fall off the plateau we are on now. Which looks like it could start within the next 18 months.

“The peaking of world oil production presents the U.S. and the world with an unprecedented risk management problem. As peaking is approached, liquid fuel prices and price volatility will increase dramatically, and, without timely mitigation, the economic, social, and political costs will be unprecedented. Viable mitigation options exist on both the supply and demand sides, but to have substantial impact, they must be initiated more than a decade in advance of peaking.”-Hirsh

Retired geologist Colin Campbell (Texaco, BP, Amoco) cautioned:

Throughout history, people have had difficulty in distinguishing reality from illusion. Reality is what happens, whereas illusion is what we would like to happen. Wishful thinking is a well-worn expression. Momentum is still another element: we tend to assume that things keep moving in the same direction.
The world now faces a discontinuity of historic proportions, as nature shows her hand by imposing a new energy reality. There are vested interests on all sides hoping somehow to evade the iron grip of oil depletion, or at least to put it off until after the next election or until they can develop some strategy for their personal or corporate survival. As the moment of truth approaches, so does the heat, the deceptions, the half-truth and the flat out lies.

My prediction is that with each uptick in oil price will be associated with an equivalent increase in delusional thinking.

[Arraya]

My interest is predominantly in foreign policy,

The geopolitics of peak oil are what is scary. Hopefully nobody thinks that it is a coincidence that we are on top of the worlds largest oil reserve at this point in history and all of the current administration is from the oil industry.

Iraq was and is and energy policy.

Cheney from 1999 while with Halliburton.

Producing oil is obviously a self-depleting activity. Every year you’ve got to find and develop reserves equal to your output just to stand still, just to stay even. This is as true for companies as well in the broader economic sense it is for the world. A new merged company like Exxon-Mobil will have to
secure over a billion and a half barrels of new oil equivalent reserves every year just to replace existing production. It’s like making one hundred per cent interest; discovering another major field of some five hundred million barrels equivalent every four months or finding two Hibernias a year. For the world as a whole, oil companies are expected to keep finding and developing enough oil to offset our seventy one million plus barrel a day of oil depletion, but also to meet new demand. By some estimates there will be an
average of two per cent annual growth in global oil demand over the years ahead along with conservatively a three per cent natural decline in production from existing reserves. That means by 2010 we will need on the order of an additional fifty million barrels a day. So where is the oil going to come from? Governments and the national oil companies are obviously in control of about ninety per cent of the assets. Oil remains fundamentally a government business. While many regions of the world offer greet oil
opportunities, the Middle East with two thirds of the world’s oil and the lowest cost, is still where the prize ultimately lies, even though companies are anxious for greeter access there, progress continues to be slow

[Arraya]

My interest is predominantly in foreign policy,

The geopolitics of peak oil are what is scary. Hopefully nobody thinks that it is a coincidence that we are on top of the worlds largest oil reserve at this point in history and all of the current administration is from the oil industry.

Iraq was and is and energy policy.

Cheney from 1999 while with Halliburton.

Producing oil is obviously a self-depleting activity. Every year you’ve got to find and develop reserves equal to your output just to stand still, just to stay even. This is as true for companies as well in the broader economic sense it is for the world. A new merged company like Exxon-Mobil will have to
secure over a billion and a half barrels of new oil equivalent reserves every year just to replace existing production. It’s like making one hundred per cent interest; discovering another major field of some five hundred million barrels equivalent every four months or finding two Hibernias a year. For the world as a whole, oil companies are expected to keep finding and developing enough oil to offset our seventy one million plus barrel a day of oil depletion, but also to meet new demand. By some estimates there will be an
average of two per cent annual growth in global oil demand over the years ahead along with conservatively a three per cent natural decline in production from existing reserves. That means by 2010 we will need on the order of an additional fifty million barrels a day. So where is the oil going to come from? Governments and the national oil companies are obviously in control of about ninety per cent of the assets. Oil remains fundamentally a government business. While many regions of the world offer greet oil
opportunities, the Middle East with two thirds of the world’s oil and the lowest cost, is still where the prize ultimately lies, even though companies are anxious for greeter access there, progress continues to be slow

[Arraya]

My interest is predominantly in foreign policy,

The geopolitics of peak oil are what is scary. Hopefully nobody thinks that it is a coincidence that we are on top of the worlds largest oil reserve at this point in history and all of the current administration is from the oil industry.

Iraq was and is and energy policy.

Cheney from 1999 while with Halliburton.

Producing oil is obviously a self-depleting activity. Every year you’ve got to find and develop reserves equal to your output just to stand still, just to stay even. This is as true for companies as well in the broader economic sense it is for the world. A new merged company like Exxon-Mobil will have to
secure over a billion and a half barrels of new oil equivalent reserves every year just to replace existing production. It’s like making one hundred per cent interest; discovering another major field of some five hundred million barrels equivalent every four months or finding two Hibernias a year. For the world as a whole, oil companies are expected to keep finding and developing enough oil to offset our seventy one million plus barrel a day of oil depletion, but also to meet new demand. By some estimates there will be an
average of two per cent annual growth in global oil demand over the years ahead along with conservatively a three per cent natural decline in production from existing reserves. That means by 2010 we will need on the order of an additional fifty million barrels a day. So where is the oil going to come from? Governments and the national oil companies are obviously in control of about ninety per cent of the assets. Oil remains fundamentally a government business. While many regions of the world offer greet oil
opportunities, the Middle East with two thirds of the world’s oil and the lowest cost, is still where the prize ultimately lies, even though companies are anxious for greeter access there, progress continues to be slow

[Arraya]

My interest is predominantly in foreign policy,

The geopolitics of peak oil are what is scary. Hopefully nobody thinks that it is a coincidence that we are on top of the worlds largest oil reserve at this point in history and all of the current administration is from the oil industry.

Iraq was and is and energy policy.

Cheney from 1999 while with Halliburton.

Producing oil is obviously a self-depleting activity. Every year you’ve got to find and develop reserves equal to your output just to stand still, just to stay even. This is as true for companies as well in the broader economic sense it is for the world. A new merged company like Exxon-Mobil will have to
secure over a billion and a half barrels of new oil equivalent reserves every year just to replace existing production. It’s like making one hundred per cent interest; discovering another major field of some five hundred million barrels equivalent every four months or finding two Hibernias a year. For the world as a whole, oil companies are expected to keep finding and developing enough oil to offset our seventy one million plus barrel a day of oil depletion, but also to meet new demand. By some estimates there will be an
average of two per cent annual growth in global oil demand over the years ahead along with conservatively a three per cent natural decline in production from existing reserves. That means by 2010 we will need on the order of an additional fifty million barrels a day. So where is the oil going to come from? Governments and the national oil companies are obviously in control of about ninety per cent of the assets. Oil remains fundamentally a government business. While many regions of the world offer greet oil
opportunities, the Middle East with two thirds of the world’s oil and the lowest cost, is still where the prize ultimately lies, even though companies are anxious for greeter access there, progress continues to be slow

[Author]

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