Conforming limit to $700,000?

[kev374]

I believe stated income is not allowed with Freddie Mac/Fannie Mae. In which case, what percentage of new buyers actually have the $150,000+/yr income to buy these $600,000 jumbo loans?

[ucodegen]

@CONCHO

These banks don’t want houses to become more affordable, they want you to borrow as much money as possible and become a long term revenue stream to them. I think what we’re seeing is that homeowning is becoming sort of a lifetime renting arrangement from the bank.

Ironic you should mention this.. because Japan was looking at lifetime ‘mortgages’ before their RE bubble crashed.

@sd_bear

If you still need X down and a yearly income of Y to afford house at price Z then prices will still fall to those levels, and to me it seems like we are still a bit away from that.

Yes, but allowing Freddie Mac, Fannie Mae to pick them up, drops the interest rate for those loans, changing the relationship between X,Y and Z above.

@drunkle

would this save those banks from having to mark down their holdings by simply getting rid of them altogether?

Kind of. I would have to see the specific language and how Freddie Mac is going to select the criteria for the mortgages.

does this save indy mac?

See above. I suspect not though. Right now the requirement of Freddie Mac is doc’d mortgages w/ a minimum equity ratio (though this part might get fudged). See implode-o-meter

http://ml-implode.com/ailing/lender_IndyMacBancorp_2008-01-09.html

@XBoxBoy

Specifically, Frank said Fannie and Freddie would be able to buy mortgages worth up to 125 pct of the median value of a home in any given region, up to a new limit of 730,000 usd.

Humm.. and why would 125% financing in a downward real estate market with insufficient loan loss reserves be a problem?… I agree. Hopefully it won’t go through.

@fat_lazy_union

Really rich people don’t get hit with taxes.

Actually they do. In fact they get reamed. I already posted the tax schedule for single in another thread. That the rich are not paying their share of taxes is a common theme that politicians like to play out when looking at more taxes. They either have to fight 80 to 90% of the population on raising taxes or they fight 20 – 10% of the population(so called rich) to raise taxes.

This is from a 2005 tax table for single.

0 – 7299 10% marginal rate, 10% total.
7300 – 29699 15% marginal rate (additional dollars over 7300 taxed at 15% on top of the 10% on under 7300)
29700 – 71949 25% marginal rate.
71950 – 150149 28% marginal rate.
150150 – 326449 33% marginal rate
326450+ 35% marginal rate.

Add in the fact that deductions start being eliminated for incomes over 146,000(single) due to AMT. So where is it that the rich are not paying taxes? 35% of your income gone to fed taxes? Add in CA state and you are looking at 44% of your income gone to taxes. Looks like it is almost better to sit around and let the gov take care of you..

[ucodegen]

@CONCHO

These banks don’t want houses to become more affordable, they want you to borrow as much money as possible and become a long term revenue stream to them. I think what we’re seeing is that homeowning is becoming sort of a lifetime renting arrangement from the bank.

Ironic you should mention this.. because Japan was looking at lifetime ‘mortgages’ before their RE bubble crashed.

@sd_bear

If you still need X down and a yearly income of Y to afford house at price Z then prices will still fall to those levels, and to me it seems like we are still a bit away from that.

Yes, but allowing Freddie Mac, Fannie Mae to pick them up, drops the interest rate for those loans, changing the relationship between X,Y and Z above.

@drunkle

would this save those banks from having to mark down their holdings by simply getting rid of them altogether?

Kind of. I would have to see the specific language and how Freddie Mac is going to select the criteria for the mortgages.

does this save indy mac?

See above. I suspect not though. Right now the requirement of Freddie Mac is doc’d mortgages w/ a minimum equity ratio (though this part might get fudged). See implode-o-meter

http://ml-implode.com/ailing/lender_IndyMacBancorp_2008-01-09.html

@XBoxBoy

Specifically, Frank said Fannie and Freddie would be able to buy mortgages worth up to 125 pct of the median value of a home in any given region, up to a new limit of 730,000 usd.

Humm.. and why would 125% financing in a downward real estate market with insufficient loan loss reserves be a problem?… I agree. Hopefully it won’t go through.

@fat_lazy_union

Really rich people don’t get hit with taxes.

Actually they do. In fact they get reamed. I already posted the tax schedule for single in another thread. That the rich are not paying their share of taxes is a common theme that politicians like to play out when looking at more taxes. They either have to fight 80 to 90% of the population on raising taxes or they fight 20 – 10% of the population(so called rich) to raise taxes.

This is from a 2005 tax table for single.

0 – 7299 10% marginal rate, 10% total.
7300 – 29699 15% marginal rate (additional dollars over 7300 taxed at 15% on top of the 10% on under 7300)
29700 – 71949 25% marginal rate.
71950 – 150149 28% marginal rate.
150150 – 326449 33% marginal rate
326450+ 35% marginal rate.

Add in the fact that deductions start being eliminated for incomes over 146,000(single) due to AMT. So where is it that the rich are not paying taxes? 35% of your income gone to fed taxes? Add in CA state and you are looking at 44% of your income gone to taxes. Looks like it is almost better to sit around and let the gov take care of you..

[ucodegen]

@CONCHO

These banks don’t want houses to become more affordable, they want you to borrow as much money as possible and become a long term revenue stream to them. I think what we’re seeing is that homeowning is becoming sort of a lifetime renting arrangement from the bank.

Ironic you should mention this.. because Japan was looking at lifetime ‘mortgages’ before their RE bubble crashed.

@sd_bear

If you still need X down and a yearly income of Y to afford house at price Z then prices will still fall to those levels, and to me it seems like we are still a bit away from that.

Yes, but allowing Freddie Mac, Fannie Mae to pick them up, drops the interest rate for those loans, changing the relationship between X,Y and Z above.

@drunkle

would this save those banks from having to mark down their holdings by simply getting rid of them altogether?

Kind of. I would have to see the specific language and how Freddie Mac is going to select the criteria for the mortgages.

does this save indy mac?

See above. I suspect not though. Right now the requirement of Freddie Mac is doc’d mortgages w/ a minimum equity ratio (though this part might get fudged). See implode-o-meter

http://ml-implode.com/ailing/lender_IndyMacBancorp_2008-01-09.html

@XBoxBoy

Specifically, Frank said Fannie and Freddie would be able to buy mortgages worth up to 125 pct of the median value of a home in any given region, up to a new limit of 730,000 usd.

Humm.. and why would 125% financing in a downward real estate market with insufficient loan loss reserves be a problem?… I agree. Hopefully it won’t go through.

@fat_lazy_union

Really rich people don’t get hit with taxes.

Actually they do. In fact they get reamed. I already posted the tax schedule for single in another thread. That the rich are not paying their share of taxes is a common theme that politicians like to play out when looking at more taxes. They either have to fight 80 to 90% of the population on raising taxes or they fight 20 – 10% of the population(so called rich) to raise taxes.

This is from a 2005 tax table for single.

0 – 7299 10% marginal rate, 10% total.
7300 – 29699 15% marginal rate (additional dollars over 7300 taxed at 15% on top of the 10% on under 7300)
29700 – 71949 25% marginal rate.
71950 – 150149 28% marginal rate.
150150 – 326449 33% marginal rate
326450+ 35% marginal rate.

Add in the fact that deductions start being eliminated for incomes over 146,000(single) due to AMT. So where is it that the rich are not paying taxes? 35% of your income gone to fed taxes? Add in CA state and you are looking at 44% of your income gone to taxes. Looks like it is almost better to sit around and let the gov take care of you..

[ucodegen]

@CONCHO

These banks don’t want houses to become more affordable, they want you to borrow as much money as possible and become a long term revenue stream to them. I think what we’re seeing is that homeowning is becoming sort of a lifetime renting arrangement from the bank.

Ironic you should mention this.. because Japan was looking at lifetime ‘mortgages’ before their RE bubble crashed.

@sd_bear

If you still need X down and a yearly income of Y to afford house at price Z then prices will still fall to those levels, and to me it seems like we are still a bit away from that.

Yes, but allowing Freddie Mac, Fannie Mae to pick them up, drops the interest rate for those loans, changing the relationship between X,Y and Z above.

@drunkle

would this save those banks from having to mark down their holdings by simply getting rid of them altogether?

Kind of. I would have to see the specific language and how Freddie Mac is going to select the criteria for the mortgages.

does this save indy mac?

See above. I suspect not though. Right now the requirement of Freddie Mac is doc’d mortgages w/ a minimum equity ratio (though this part might get fudged). See implode-o-meter

http://ml-implode.com/ailing/lender_IndyMacBancorp_2008-01-09.html

@XBoxBoy

Specifically, Frank said Fannie and Freddie would be able to buy mortgages worth up to 125 pct of the median value of a home in any given region, up to a new limit of 730,000 usd.

Humm.. and why would 125% financing in a downward real estate market with insufficient loan loss reserves be a problem?… I agree. Hopefully it won’t go through.

@fat_lazy_union

Really rich people don’t get hit with taxes.

Actually they do. In fact they get reamed. I already posted the tax schedule for single in another thread. That the rich are not paying their share of taxes is a common theme that politicians like to play out when looking at more taxes. They either have to fight 80 to 90% of the population on raising taxes or they fight 20 – 10% of the population(so called rich) to raise taxes.

This is from a 2005 tax table for single.

0 – 7299 10% marginal rate, 10% total.
7300 – 29699 15% marginal rate (additional dollars over 7300 taxed at 15% on top of the 10% on under 7300)
29700 – 71949 25% marginal rate.
71950 – 150149 28% marginal rate.
150150 – 326449 33% marginal rate
326450+ 35% marginal rate.

Add in the fact that deductions start being eliminated for incomes over 146,000(single) due to AMT. So where is it that the rich are not paying taxes? 35% of your income gone to fed taxes? Add in CA state and you are looking at 44% of your income gone to taxes. Looks like it is almost better to sit around and let the gov take care of you..

[ucodegen]

@CONCHO

These banks don’t want houses to become more affordable, they want you to borrow as much money as possible and become a long term revenue stream to them. I think what we’re seeing is that homeowning is becoming sort of a lifetime renting arrangement from the bank.

Ironic you should mention this.. because Japan was looking at lifetime ‘mortgages’ before their RE bubble crashed.

@sd_bear

If you still need X down and a yearly income of Y to afford house at price Z then prices will still fall to those levels, and to me it seems like we are still a bit away from that.

Yes, but allowing Freddie Mac, Fannie Mae to pick them up, drops the interest rate for those loans, changing the relationship between X,Y and Z above.

@drunkle

would this save those banks from having to mark down their holdings by simply getting rid of them altogether?

Kind of. I would have to see the specific language and how Freddie Mac is going to select the criteria for the mortgages.

does this save indy mac?

See above. I suspect not though. Right now the requirement of Freddie Mac is doc’d mortgages w/ a minimum equity ratio (though this part might get fudged). See implode-o-meter

http://ml-implode.com/ailing/lender_IndyMacBancorp_2008-01-09.html

@XBoxBoy

Specifically, Frank said Fannie and Freddie would be able to buy mortgages worth up to 125 pct of the median value of a home in any given region, up to a new limit of 730,000 usd.

Humm.. and why would 125% financing in a downward real estate market with insufficient loan loss reserves be a problem?… I agree. Hopefully it won’t go through.

@fat_lazy_union

Really rich people don’t get hit with taxes.

Actually they do. In fact they get reamed. I already posted the tax schedule for single in another thread. That the rich are not paying their share of taxes is a common theme that politicians like to play out when looking at more taxes. They either have to fight 80 to 90% of the population on raising taxes or they fight 20 – 10% of the population(so called rich) to raise taxes.

This is from a 2005 tax table for single.

0 – 7299 10% marginal rate, 10% total.
7300 – 29699 15% marginal rate (additional dollars over 7300 taxed at 15% on top of the 10% on under 7300)
29700 – 71949 25% marginal rate.
71950 – 150149 28% marginal rate.
150150 – 326449 33% marginal rate
326450+ 35% marginal rate.

Add in the fact that deductions start being eliminated for incomes over 146,000(single) due to AMT. So where is it that the rich are not paying taxes? 35% of your income gone to fed taxes? Add in CA state and you are looking at 44% of your income gone to taxes. Looks like it is almost better to sit around and let the gov take care of you..

[SD Realtor]

Herewego –

How much money can the Fed print? GSE is the key word here man… you know what I am saying? The problem is that you are applying logic and free market behavior to something that is increasingly becoming subsidized in a somewhat occlusive manner. At some point, maybe long ago, maybe not long ago, I would surmise that many people realized that we were at a point of no return and then the thought processes changed. Rather then worrying about personal liability on the ledger sheets of institutions, I believe the thought processes realized that federal intervention will essentially occur because there was simply to much to lose. The complexities of this bubble were so over and above previous bubbles that it really did not matter anymore. What we are seeing is something that everyone knew would have to occur, yet nobody knew how it would manifest itself.

Again, I doubt that it will stave off the process but actually make it worse, cost alot more to the taxpayers in the long run, and convolute everything. However it will also help to provide stimulus and slow things down depending on where the market is that is being discussed. Hard to say how it will affect our market in SD… in some ways I do agree with you but in others I am not sure. I mean it is crazy for me right now. I have no clue why I should be as busy as I am but it is true. If these people had another 300k of GSE backed limits to work with for the financing which could mean an extra point or half point that would help them. My main strategy is how to keep my wife from putting me through the lets buy now ringer round 7.

FLU you didn’t have to qualify your statement and I could not agree with you more. My analogy to your statement would be if I am gonna take in in the -ss with my taxes at least uncle sam can give me a reach around right? We are in the same boat my friend so a program that will help me is at least more palatable then all those that do not.

SD Realtor

[SD Realtor]

Herewego –

How much money can the Fed print? GSE is the key word here man… you know what I am saying? The problem is that you are applying logic and free market behavior to something that is increasingly becoming subsidized in a somewhat occlusive manner. At some point, maybe long ago, maybe not long ago, I would surmise that many people realized that we were at a point of no return and then the thought processes changed. Rather then worrying about personal liability on the ledger sheets of institutions, I believe the thought processes realized that federal intervention will essentially occur because there was simply to much to lose. The complexities of this bubble were so over and above previous bubbles that it really did not matter anymore. What we are seeing is something that everyone knew would have to occur, yet nobody knew how it would manifest itself.

Again, I doubt that it will stave off the process but actually make it worse, cost alot more to the taxpayers in the long run, and convolute everything. However it will also help to provide stimulus and slow things down depending on where the market is that is being discussed. Hard to say how it will affect our market in SD… in some ways I do agree with you but in others I am not sure. I mean it is crazy for me right now. I have no clue why I should be as busy as I am but it is true. If these people had another 300k of GSE backed limits to work with for the financing which could mean an extra point or half point that would help them. My main strategy is how to keep my wife from putting me through the lets buy now ringer round 7.

FLU you didn’t have to qualify your statement and I could not agree with you more. My analogy to your statement would be if I am gonna take in in the -ss with my taxes at least uncle sam can give me a reach around right? We are in the same boat my friend so a program that will help me is at least more palatable then all those that do not.

SD Realtor

[SD Realtor]

Herewego –

How much money can the Fed print? GSE is the key word here man… you know what I am saying? The problem is that you are applying logic and free market behavior to something that is increasingly becoming subsidized in a somewhat occlusive manner. At some point, maybe long ago, maybe not long ago, I would surmise that many people realized that we were at a point of no return and then the thought processes changed. Rather then worrying about personal liability on the ledger sheets of institutions, I believe the thought processes realized that federal intervention will essentially occur because there was simply to much to lose. The complexities of this bubble were so over and above previous bubbles that it really did not matter anymore. What we are seeing is something that everyone knew would have to occur, yet nobody knew how it would manifest itself.

Again, I doubt that it will stave off the process but actually make it worse, cost alot more to the taxpayers in the long run, and convolute everything. However it will also help to provide stimulus and slow things down depending on where the market is that is being discussed. Hard to say how it will affect our market in SD… in some ways I do agree with you but in others I am not sure. I mean it is crazy for me right now. I have no clue why I should be as busy as I am but it is true. If these people had another 300k of GSE backed limits to work with for the financing which could mean an extra point or half point that would help them. My main strategy is how to keep my wife from putting me through the lets buy now ringer round 7.

FLU you didn’t have to qualify your statement and I could not agree with you more. My analogy to your statement would be if I am gonna take in in the -ss with my taxes at least uncle sam can give me a reach around right? We are in the same boat my friend so a program that will help me is at least more palatable then all those that do not.

SD Realtor

[SD Realtor]

Herewego –

How much money can the Fed print? GSE is the key word here man… you know what I am saying? The problem is that you are applying logic and free market behavior to something that is increasingly becoming subsidized in a somewhat occlusive manner. At some point, maybe long ago, maybe not long ago, I would surmise that many people realized that we were at a point of no return and then the thought processes changed. Rather then worrying about personal liability on the ledger sheets of institutions, I believe the thought processes realized that federal intervention will essentially occur because there was simply to much to lose. The complexities of this bubble were so over and above previous bubbles that it really did not matter anymore. What we are seeing is something that everyone knew would have to occur, yet nobody knew how it would manifest itself.

Again, I doubt that it will stave off the process but actually make it worse, cost alot more to the taxpayers in the long run, and convolute everything. However it will also help to provide stimulus and slow things down depending on where the market is that is being discussed. Hard to say how it will affect our market in SD… in some ways I do agree with you but in others I am not sure. I mean it is crazy for me right now. I have no clue why I should be as busy as I am but it is true. If these people had another 300k of GSE backed limits to work with for the financing which could mean an extra point or half point that would help them. My main strategy is how to keep my wife from putting me through the lets buy now ringer round 7.

FLU you didn’t have to qualify your statement and I could not agree with you more. My analogy to your statement would be if I am gonna take in in the -ss with my taxes at least uncle sam can give me a reach around right? We are in the same boat my friend so a program that will help me is at least more palatable then all those that do not.

SD Realtor

[SD Realtor]

Herewego –

How much money can the Fed print? GSE is the key word here man… you know what I am saying? The problem is that you are applying logic and free market behavior to something that is increasingly becoming subsidized in a somewhat occlusive manner. At some point, maybe long ago, maybe not long ago, I would surmise that many people realized that we were at a point of no return and then the thought processes changed. Rather then worrying about personal liability on the ledger sheets of institutions, I believe the thought processes realized that federal intervention will essentially occur because there was simply to much to lose. The complexities of this bubble were so over and above previous bubbles that it really did not matter anymore. What we are seeing is something that everyone knew would have to occur, yet nobody knew how it would manifest itself.

Again, I doubt that it will stave off the process but actually make it worse, cost alot more to the taxpayers in the long run, and convolute everything. However it will also help to provide stimulus and slow things down depending on where the market is that is being discussed. Hard to say how it will affect our market in SD… in some ways I do agree with you but in others I am not sure. I mean it is crazy for me right now. I have no clue why I should be as busy as I am but it is true. If these people had another 300k of GSE backed limits to work with for the financing which could mean an extra point or half point that would help them. My main strategy is how to keep my wife from putting me through the lets buy now ringer round 7.

FLU you didn’t have to qualify your statement and I could not agree with you more. My analogy to your statement would be if I am gonna take in in the -ss with my taxes at least uncle sam can give me a reach around right? We are in the same boat my friend so a program that will help me is at least more palatable then all those that do not.

SD Realtor

[drunkle]

prof uco:

take a look at imb… after posting my query, i went ahead and placed a bet for apr 7.5 call…

stoked!?!

[drunkle]

prof uco:

take a look at imb… after posting my query, i went ahead and placed a bet for apr 7.5 call…

stoked!?!

[drunkle]

prof uco:

take a look at imb… after posting my query, i went ahead and placed a bet for apr 7.5 call…

stoked!?!

[drunkle]

prof uco:

take a look at imb… after posting my query, i went ahead and placed a bet for apr 7.5 call…

stoked!?!

[Author]

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