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SK in CV.
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June 14, 2014 at 8:21 AM #775104June 14, 2014 at 9:10 AM #775107
ocrenter
Participant[quote=SK in CV]
Interesting words, made me think. I’m an atheist. It really goes beyond “god”, I don’t believe in much of anything. But I didn’t get here without quite a bit of exposure to religion. I grew up in a pretty observant religious home and was exposed to (and at times very willingly participated in)a rigorous religious education. But there was very little spirituality involved, at least from my perspective. So despite this background, I never “turn to god”. I can’t remember any situation where it even occurred to me to do so.
I’m not claiming that any broad conclusions based on my experience. I’m not calling belief stupid, or blaming very human problems on god. Belief is a choice. I just found your words very interesting shit to think about. Thanks for sharing.[/quote]
No, you are right, belief is not stupid, belief in a higher power helps the human psyche tramendously. Religion was our psychotherapy prior to the arrival of modern psychiatry. Having a belief system, even though it may not be real, is a very helpful cornerstone to anchor to. Having that anchor allows for the rituals and prayers that are essentially disguised meditation practices. And we all know how productive meditation is for calming of the mind.
It is like the elderly woman that was chanting her Catholic prayers when she got her first knee injection. The chanting didn’t conjur up God to come and make the doctor perform better. The chanting, as a form of meditation, calmed her and made the pain from the injection less painful and more tolerable. She walks away painfree from the injection, but thinking because of her prayer, God has performed a miracle. This re-affirms her faith, which in turn make her even better at her meditative practice the next time around.
interesting PET scan analysis of the meditative brain:
http://earthvision.info/meditatingbrain.htmlJune 14, 2014 at 11:17 AM #775109paramount
Participant[quote=SK in CV][quote=ocrenter]
People turn to God and religion when things are out of control. That’s why people always pray and turn to whatever god they worship during earthquakes and typhoon/hurricane or other natural disasters.You are turning to your God because we have flooded this country with guns and ammo and things are unraveling and becoming out of control. Yet you still love your guns and too paranoid to support registration and control.
Given complete lack of control over this conflicting loveaffair with guns yet scared at the same time because of the uunraveling increase in gun violence, you turn to, of course, GOD.[/quote]
Belief is a choice. I just found your words very interesting shit to think about. Thanks for sharing.[/quote]
Must be me as I don’t find those words interesting at all; I do find wild assumptions being made not to mention that ocrenter stepped into the trap I set.
In my original comment I never mention god, in fact I’m an agnostic and I don’t even own a gun.
But ocrenter states I’m paranoid and yet has no idea what I might or might not supprt registration wise.
ocrenter then goes on to say godless countries have less gun violence. Wrong: those countries are NOT godless and they haven’t been as poisoned by the progressive/liberal agendas to the extent the US has.
You see ocrenter, it’s not about god per se; it’s about the solid value system and self-esteem more people than not derive from participating in a religion.
The libs have replaced that value system with relativism and materialism.
It’s not about guns, it’s about the person using the gun.
Two weeks ago Canada – which has strict gun control laws – had a “random” shooting.
A recent Harvard Study:
The study, which just appeared in Volume 30, Number 2 of the Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy (pp. 649-694), set out to answer the question in its title: “Would Banning Firearms Reduce Murder and Suicide? A Review of International and Some Domestic Evidence.” Contrary to conventional wisdom, and the sniffs of our more sophisticated and generally anti-gun counterparts across the pond, the answer is “no.” And not just no, as in there is no correlation between gun ownership and violent crime, but an emphatic no, showing a negative correlation: as gun ownership increases, murder and suicide decreases.
June 14, 2014 at 11:34 AM #775110Participant[quote=ocrenter]
People turn to God and religion when things are out of control. That’s why people always pray and turn to whatever god they worship during earthquakes and typhoon/hurricane or other natural disasters.You are turning to your God because we have flooded this country with guns and ammo and things are unraveling and becoming out of control. Yet you still love your guns and too paranoid to support registration and control.
Given complete lack of control over this conflicting loveaffair with guns yet scared at the same time because of the uunraveling increase in gun violence, you turn to, of course, GOD.[/quote]
Some people turn to god when they perceive things are bad; many many others are devout through good and bad times.
I am not turning to god personally – never-mind me –
but this is a country that largely derives values from nonsectarian sources.The results have been disastrous to say the least.
June 14, 2014 at 12:00 PM #775111Participant[quote=paramount]
Must be me as I don’t find those words interesting at all; I do find wild assumptions being made not to mention that ocrenter stepped into the trap I set.
In my original comment I never mention god, in fact I’m an agnostic and I don’t even own a gun.
But ocrenter states I’m paranoid and yet has no idea what I might or might not supprt registration wise.
ocrenter then goes on to say godless countries have less gun violence. Wrong: those countries are NOT godless and they haven’t been as poisoned by the progressive/liberal agendas to the extent the US has.
You see ocrenter, it’s not about god per se; it’s about the solid value system and self-esteem more people than not derive from participating in a religion.
The libs have replaced that value system with relativism and materialism.
It’s not about guns, it’s about the person using the gun.
Two weeks ago Canada – which has strict gun control laws – had a “random” shooting.
A recent Harvard Study:
The study, which just appeared in Volume 30, Number 2 of the Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy (pp. 649-694), set out to answer the question in its title: “Would Banning Firearms Reduce Murder and Suicide? A Review of International and Some Domestic Evidence.” Contrary to conventional wisdom, and the sniffs of our more sophisticated and generally anti-gun counterparts across the pond, the answer is “no.” And not just no, as in there is no correlation between gun ownership and violent crime, but an emphatic no, showing a negative correlation: as gun ownership increases, murder and suicide decreases.[/quote]
Oh No, I fell into paramount’s trap! How horrible, somebody help get me out!!!
In this country church is God, trap or otherwise. It is God first and foremost followed by everything else. This is why this country has a problem with mistakening morality with God. And this is also the reason why you mistaken proper upbringing with involvement with the church.
If it really was an intentional trap as you try so hard to prove, then there is also No need to lie about other godless countries with significantly lower homicidal rates. Europe as a whole is far more secular and far more progressive compared to the US, violent crime is less. Even Canada, a far more progressive country compared to us, has significantly less crime per capita as well as homicide rate despite your single event equal policy failure analysis.
Plenty of stats showing the US is leading the way in homicide rate, one can always cherrypick data to back up your claims.
June 14, 2014 at 12:21 PM #775113Participant[quote=paramount]
Some people turn to god when they perceive things are bad; many many others are devout through good and bad times.
I am not turning to god personally – never-mind me –
but this is a country that largely derives values from nonsectarian sources.The results have been disastrous to say the least.[/quote]
The main problem with this country is endless pursuit of material wealth with zero regard to time for the family. But the majority of the country fell into the trap that somehow this was related to lack of church attendance. When both parents are forced to work full time, the children are left to raise themselves from the TV and videogames.
The fact that church attendance fall is a side effect, not a cause of our moral breakdown. don’t fall into the trap of that false correlation.
At the same time, this country rejects the progressive fix of living wages and better benefits that would strengthen familyon the basis of it being a communist agenda.
Plenty of church going folks end up with teenage pregnancy and drug use and crime, in fact states with the highest church attendance have the worse of these problems.
June 14, 2014 at 12:39 PM #775114Participant[quote=ocrenter]
Plenty of stats showing the US is leading the way in homicide rate.[/quote]
that’s true thanks to the progressives and liberals.
In the 50’s – when religion was still largely a part of the American family and before the libs took over – the problems we have today weren’t even on the radar screen.
June 14, 2014 at 12:41 PM #775115Participant[quote=paramount][quote=ocrenter]
Plenty of stats showing the US is leading the way in homicide rate.[/quote]
that’s true thanks to the progressives and liberals.
In the 50’s – when religion was still a part of the American family and before the libs took over – the problems we have today weren’t even on the radar screen.[/quote]
If there is only one country on earth and that is the USofA there would be no way to disprove your statement.
While a great majority of this country behave that way, luckily there are over 200 other countries out there, many of them completely disproving your theory.
June 14, 2014 at 1:14 PM #775120scaredyclassic
Participant[quote=paramount]Here is the true solution (to eliminate/reduce mass/public shootings):
1. Raise families/kids with a solid/legit church background
2. One parent home with the kids except in rare circumstances
3. Vote Tea Party/Libertarian
The Tea Party stands for liberty/freedom, self-reliance and rugged individualism. That’s what built this country.
And yes, I’m serious.
The progressives have nearly destroyed this country – and the mass/public shootings are among the most glaring symptom of a diseased society/country – a disease whose primary cause IS progressive and liberal agendas.
Gun Control and Bullet Proof crap will NEVER solve the problem or even come close.[/quote]
what’s a “solid/legit” church background? like, not a bullshit church? one that doesn’t honor killing, militarily or otherwise? a nonnationalist type church that is rah rah america?
June 14, 2014 at 2:32 PM #775123spdrun
ParticipantIn the 50’s – when religion was still largely a part of the American family and before the libs took over – the problems we have today weren’t even on the radar screen.
Au contraire. Read about youth gangs in NYC in the 1950s. How about Charles Starkwether? Leopold and Loeb?
Every generation has said that the previous ones have been heaven. All too often, they have been wrong.
June 14, 2014 at 3:38 PM #775125flyer
ParticipantIMO, one of the saddest things in society is how few people actually achieve their “dreams” in life. When I was growing up–that was a major topic of conversation–now, it seems to be more about “survival.” Personally, I can’t imagine that scenario for myself or for my family.
Since it’s difficult to make generalizations about any of these type of topics, again, IMO, it all boils down to what works for each of us and our families–as long as our “beliefs”–whatever they may be–aren’t harming others.
No one has absolute answers, but one thing is certain. Life on earth is
short–regardless of what you “believe.”June 14, 2014 at 3:44 PM #775126SK in CV
Participant[quote=paramount]
In the 50’s – when religion was still largely a part of the American family and before the libs took over – the problems we have today weren’t even on the radar screen.[/quote]I’m not sure what problems you’re referring to. Maybe you can identify the “problems” caused or brought about by liberals. But if religious participation leads to better living conditions, you’d think things would be better in regions of the country where religious participation is the highest. I don’t think that’s true.
The 10 most religious states are, in order: Mississippi, Utah, Alabama, Louisiana, Arkansas, South Carolina, Tennessee, North Carolina, Georgia and Oklahoma
How are conditions in these states?
Nine of these ten states still had racially segregated schools at the time of the Supreme Court’s 1954 decision in Brown v. Board of Education.
Five of these ten states are still among the worst states in the nation in terms of the continuing racial segregation of their public schools.
Eight of these ten states are among the eleven states in the nation with the highest rates of incarceration.
All of these ten states still have the death penalty.
Seven of these ten states are among the ten states in the nation with the highest percentage of their citizens living under the poverty level.
Six of these ten states are among the nine worst states in the nation in rates of obesity.
Nine of these ten states are among the twenty states in the nation with the highest rates of smoking.
Seven of these ten states rank in the bottom ten states in the nation in the overall health of citizens.
Nine of these ten states rank in the bottom thirteen states in the nation in life expectancy.
Seven of these ten states rank in the bottom ten states in the nation in the quality of healthcare.
Five of these ten states are the only states in the nation without a minimum wage law.
All ten of these ten states rank in the bottom sixteen states in the nation in minimum wage.
Nine of these ten states ranks in the bottom eighteen states in the nation in per pupil expenditures for public education.
Nine of these ten states rank in the bottom twenty states in the nation in the quality of high school education.
Nine of these ten states are among the twenty worst states in the nation in terms of gun deaths per capita.
Five of these ten states are among the ten states in the nation whose citizens watch the most online pornography.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/geoffrey-r-stone/life-in-the-most-religiou_b_5494776.html
June 14, 2014 at 4:13 PM #775128mike92104
Participant[quote=ocrenter]
Given complete lack of control over this conflicting loveaffair with guns yet scared at the same time because of the uunraveling increase in gun violence, you turn to, of course, GOD.[/quote]
Let’s apply some facts to that statement.
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fv9311.pdf
It clearly shows a significant reduction in gun violence. I think it helps support spdrun’s comment about the sensationalizing the media does.
June 14, 2014 at 4:18 PM #775130Participant[quote=SK in CV][quote=paramount]
In the 50’s – when religion was still largely a part of the American family and before the libs took over – the problems we have today weren’t even on the radar screen.[/quote]I’m not sure what problems you’re referring to. Maybe you can identify the “problems” caused or brought about by liberals. But if religious participation leads to better living conditions, you’d think things would be better in regions of the country where religious participation is the highest. I don’t think that’s true.
The 10 most religious states are, in order: Mississippi, Utah, Alabama, Louisiana, Arkansas, South Carolina, Tennessee, North Carolina, Georgia and Oklahoma
How are conditions in these states?
Nine of these ten states still had racially segregated schools at the time of the Supreme Court’s 1954 decision in Brown v. Board of Education.
Five of these ten states are still among the worst states in the nation in terms of the continuing racial segregation of their public schools.
Eight of these ten states are among the eleven states in the nation with the highest rates of incarceration.
All of these ten states still have the death penalty.
Seven of these ten states are among the ten states in the nation with the highest percentage of their citizens living under the poverty level.
Six of these ten states are among the nine worst states in the nation in rates of obesity.
Nine of these ten states are among the twenty states in the nation with the highest rates of smoking.
Seven of these ten states rank in the bottom ten states in the nation in the overall health of citizens.
Nine of these ten states rank in the bottom thirteen states in the nation in life expectancy.
Seven of these ten states rank in the bottom ten states in the nation in the quality of healthcare.
Five of these ten states are the only states in the nation without a minimum wage law.
All ten of these ten states rank in the bottom sixteen states in the nation in minimum wage.
Nine of these ten states ranks in the bottom eighteen states in the nation in per pupil expenditures for public education.
Nine of these ten states rank in the bottom twenty states in the nation in the quality of high school education.
Nine of these ten states are among the twenty worst states in the nation in terms of gun deaths per capita.
Five of these ten states are among the ten states in the nation whose citizens watch the most online pornography.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/geoffrey-r-stone/life-in-the-most-religiou_b_5494776.html%5B/quote%5D
Thanks for the clearly unbiased source of information.
June 14, 2014 at 4:36 PM #775131Participant[quote=mike92104]
Thanks for the clearly unbiased source of information.[/quote]If you have any data that disputes anything presented, have at it. Otherwise, that’s a horrendously ignorant ad hominem argument.
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