china has 12 ghost cities

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=patb][quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
China is one of the countries I don’t do business in (Russia is another) and for a variety of reasons, the main one being that they don’t pay their bills. Another significant reason is that China is actually getting more dangerous than people realize and the government has less control than people think. You leave the shiny new cities and get out into the countryside and the vibe completely changes and not in a good way.

Most westerners don’t leave the cities, however, and thus don’t see this.[/quote]

what is the vibe in the countryside?[/quote]

Pat: Fairly high level of discontent, and largely due to (IMHO): Government policies, especially annexation of land (and these policies are enforced by extremely corrupt local officials who are far away from Beijing), as well as the perception that, while are many are getting rich in China, far more are not. The disparities are striking, especially when you travel outside of the cities.

It does have the feel of a Potemkin Village. This is going to sound terrible, but China is a filthy country. For all of the talk of China “seeing the light” regarding pollution controls and climate change, its largely untrue. China is pursuing a policy of explosive growth, regardless of the cost. They need to maintain certain growth targets in order to keep social peace, and it’ll be interesting to see what happens when they run out of road. Which they will.

[patb]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]

Pat: Fairly high level of discontent, and largely due to (IMHO): Government policies, especially annexation of land (and these policies are enforced by extremely corrupt local officials who are far away from Beijing), as well as the perception that, while are many are getting rich in China, far more are not. The disparities are striking, especially when you travel outside of the cities.

It does have the feel of a Potemkin Village. This is going to sound terrible, but China is a filthy country. For all of the talk of China “seeing the light” regarding pollution controls and climate change, its largely untrue. China is pursuing a policy of explosive growth, regardless of the cost. They need to maintain certain growth targets in order to keep social peace, and it’ll be interesting to see what happens when they run out of road. Which they will.[/quote]

when were you out in the hills?

i know the water pollution is awful and the air pollution makes most of the air unbreathable.

the trick is what’s the issue?

are they ad because the environment is bad or because they don’t have cars and crap?
Are they mad because they don’t have wives or
the rich guys have 3?

Are they going to start shooting rich people or go to war on russia?

[patb]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]

Pat: Fairly high level of discontent, and largely due to (IMHO): Government policies, especially annexation of land (and these policies are enforced by extremely corrupt local officials who are far away from Beijing), as well as the perception that, while are many are getting rich in China, far more are not. The disparities are striking, especially when you travel outside of the cities.

It does have the feel of a Potemkin Village. This is going to sound terrible, but China is a filthy country. For all of the talk of China “seeing the light” regarding pollution controls and climate change, its largely untrue. China is pursuing a policy of explosive growth, regardless of the cost. They need to maintain certain growth targets in order to keep social peace, and it’ll be interesting to see what happens when they run out of road. Which they will.[/quote]

when were you out in the hills?

i know the water pollution is awful and the air pollution makes most of the air unbreathable.

the trick is what’s the issue?

are they ad because the environment is bad or because they don’t have cars and crap?
Are they mad because they don’t have wives or
the rich guys have 3?

Are they going to start shooting rich people or go to war on russia?

[patb]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]

Pat: Fairly high level of discontent, and largely due to (IMHO): Government policies, especially annexation of land (and these policies are enforced by extremely corrupt local officials who are far away from Beijing), as well as the perception that, while are many are getting rich in China, far more are not. The disparities are striking, especially when you travel outside of the cities.

It does have the feel of a Potemkin Village. This is going to sound terrible, but China is a filthy country. For all of the talk of China “seeing the light” regarding pollution controls and climate change, its largely untrue. China is pursuing a policy of explosive growth, regardless of the cost. They need to maintain certain growth targets in order to keep social peace, and it’ll be interesting to see what happens when they run out of road. Which they will.[/quote]

when were you out in the hills?

i know the water pollution is awful and the air pollution makes most of the air unbreathable.

the trick is what’s the issue?

are they ad because the environment is bad or because they don’t have cars and crap?
Are they mad because they don’t have wives or
the rich guys have 3?

Are they going to start shooting rich people or go to war on russia?

[patb]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]

Pat: Fairly high level of discontent, and largely due to (IMHO): Government policies, especially annexation of land (and these policies are enforced by extremely corrupt local officials who are far away from Beijing), as well as the perception that, while are many are getting rich in China, far more are not. The disparities are striking, especially when you travel outside of the cities.

It does have the feel of a Potemkin Village. This is going to sound terrible, but China is a filthy country. For all of the talk of China “seeing the light” regarding pollution controls and climate change, its largely untrue. China is pursuing a policy of explosive growth, regardless of the cost. They need to maintain certain growth targets in order to keep social peace, and it’ll be interesting to see what happens when they run out of road. Which they will.[/quote]

when were you out in the hills?

i know the water pollution is awful and the air pollution makes most of the air unbreathable.

the trick is what’s the issue?

are they ad because the environment is bad or because they don’t have cars and crap?
Are they mad because they don’t have wives or
the rich guys have 3?

Are they going to start shooting rich people or go to war on russia?

[patb]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]

Pat: Fairly high level of discontent, and largely due to (IMHO): Government policies, especially annexation of land (and these policies are enforced by extremely corrupt local officials who are far away from Beijing), as well as the perception that, while are many are getting rich in China, far more are not. The disparities are striking, especially when you travel outside of the cities.

It does have the feel of a Potemkin Village. This is going to sound terrible, but China is a filthy country. For all of the talk of China “seeing the light” regarding pollution controls and climate change, its largely untrue. China is pursuing a policy of explosive growth, regardless of the cost. They need to maintain certain growth targets in order to keep social peace, and it’ll be interesting to see what happens when they run out of road. Which they will.[/quote]

when were you out in the hills?

i know the water pollution is awful and the air pollution makes most of the air unbreathable.

the trick is what’s the issue?

are they ad because the environment is bad or because they don’t have cars and crap?
Are they mad because they don’t have wives or
the rich guys have 3?

Are they going to start shooting rich people or go to war on russia?

[sdgrrl]

Just have to give a nod to your use of Shelley 🙂

[sdgrrl]

Just have to give a nod to your use of Shelley 🙂

[sdgrrl]

Just have to give a nod to your use of Shelley 🙂

[sdgrrl]

Just have to give a nod to your use of Shelley 🙂

[sdgrrl]

Just have to give a nod to your use of Shelley 🙂

[Eugene]

[quote=sdduuuude]I know many are bullish on China these days, but I can’t help but wonder if their long-term prognosis looks very similar to that of the former Soviet Union.

The thing about centralized planning is – if you make a mistake, you affect billions of people all at once and it doesn’t make them happy. China seems destined for some social unrest in the long term.[/quote]

Take it from someone who did live in the Soviet Union (however briefly). Modern China is nowhere like the Soviet Union.

Unlike the Soviet Union, China does not attempt to regulate its subjects’ lives anywhere near as finely. In fact, I don’t even think that modern China truly qualifies as a communist state. It’s more of a semi-capitalist dictatorship.

For example, in the Soviet Union prior to 1985, private enterprise was banned and punishable by jail time. You could go to jail for something as simple as buying a pair of jeans from an American tourist and then reselling them for profit to your neighbor. 99% of the stuff we see here with the “Made in China” label is made by private companies with only minimal government oversight.

The scope of possible mistakes in the Chinese system is vastly narrower than that in the USSR, and there’s a legally permitted mechanism to correct these mistakes.

[Eugene]

[quote=sdduuuude]I know many are bullish on China these days, but I can’t help but wonder if their long-term prognosis looks very similar to that of the former Soviet Union.

The thing about centralized planning is – if you make a mistake, you affect billions of people all at once and it doesn’t make them happy. China seems destined for some social unrest in the long term.[/quote]

Take it from someone who did live in the Soviet Union (however briefly). Modern China is nowhere like the Soviet Union.

Unlike the Soviet Union, China does not attempt to regulate its subjects’ lives anywhere near as finely. In fact, I don’t even think that modern China truly qualifies as a communist state. It’s more of a semi-capitalist dictatorship.

For example, in the Soviet Union prior to 1985, private enterprise was banned and punishable by jail time. You could go to jail for something as simple as buying a pair of jeans from an American tourist and then reselling them for profit to your neighbor. 99% of the stuff we see here with the “Made in China” label is made by private companies with only minimal government oversight.

The scope of possible mistakes in the Chinese system is vastly narrower than that in the USSR, and there’s a legally permitted mechanism to correct these mistakes.

[Eugene]

[quote=sdduuuude]I know many are bullish on China these days, but I can’t help but wonder if their long-term prognosis looks very similar to that of the former Soviet Union.

The thing about centralized planning is – if you make a mistake, you affect billions of people all at once and it doesn’t make them happy. China seems destined for some social unrest in the long term.[/quote]

Take it from someone who did live in the Soviet Union (however briefly). Modern China is nowhere like the Soviet Union.

Unlike the Soviet Union, China does not attempt to regulate its subjects’ lives anywhere near as finely. In fact, I don’t even think that modern China truly qualifies as a communist state. It’s more of a semi-capitalist dictatorship.

For example, in the Soviet Union prior to 1985, private enterprise was banned and punishable by jail time. You could go to jail for something as simple as buying a pair of jeans from an American tourist and then reselling them for profit to your neighbor. 99% of the stuff we see here with the “Made in China” label is made by private companies with only minimal government oversight.

The scope of possible mistakes in the Chinese system is vastly narrower than that in the USSR, and there’s a legally permitted mechanism to correct these mistakes.

[Eugene]

[quote=sdduuuude]I know many are bullish on China these days, but I can’t help but wonder if their long-term prognosis looks very similar to that of the former Soviet Union.

The thing about centralized planning is – if you make a mistake, you affect billions of people all at once and it doesn’t make them happy. China seems destined for some social unrest in the long term.[/quote]

Take it from someone who did live in the Soviet Union (however briefly). Modern China is nowhere like the Soviet Union.

Unlike the Soviet Union, China does not attempt to regulate its subjects’ lives anywhere near as finely. In fact, I don’t even think that modern China truly qualifies as a communist state. It’s more of a semi-capitalist dictatorship.

For example, in the Soviet Union prior to 1985, private enterprise was banned and punishable by jail time. You could go to jail for something as simple as buying a pair of jeans from an American tourist and then reselling them for profit to your neighbor. 99% of the stuff we see here with the “Made in China” label is made by private companies with only minimal government oversight.

The scope of possible mistakes in the Chinese system is vastly narrower than that in the USSR, and there’s a legally permitted mechanism to correct these mistakes.

[Author]

Posts