BMW/LEXUS selling too fast ?

[DWCAP]

[quote=AN][quote=kev374]
it’s not a linear scale that way. It’s needs vs wants. The first $15-20k of car may be a *need*, you need decent transport for work etc. But the other $40k is then fluff that can be afforded only if you have all your other more important financial priorities set…savings, retirement, emergency fund, kids college, home paid off, investments etc. etc.[/quote]
You don’t NEED a $15k-$20k car. You can get a decent used civic that runs well for $3k-$4k. So, a $20k car is a luxury. You don’t ever need to buy a new car.[/quote]

I could be wrong, but I thought he was quoting new prices. Like a civic new is about a 20k car, and if you bought it used and only paid 5 then it would be a USED 20k car you got for 5k. It is the NEW 60k car, 30k used, that he is calling a luxery that you need that kinda income for. But again I could be wrong. That is just how I read it.

I dont necessarly agree, it depends on your priorities. If you dont travel, you could use that money on car payments. If you live in middle class neighborhoods instead of trying to move up to the big time, if you dont really like eating/going out, if you dont buy alot of stuff and live minimally… cut any of these and the ability to really afford a luxery car goes up alot. The problem is that we in the USA want our luxery AND everything else too. We have learned to assign high priorities to anything that improves our lives now, not matter how fleeting; and low priorities to things that improve our lives in the long run but take time to accumulate. This is the fundamental flaw we refuse to face as a nation.

[DWCAP]

[quote=AN][quote=kev374]
it’s not a linear scale that way. It’s needs vs wants. The first $15-20k of car may be a *need*, you need decent transport for work etc. But the other $40k is then fluff that can be afforded only if you have all your other more important financial priorities set…savings, retirement, emergency fund, kids college, home paid off, investments etc. etc.[/quote]
You don’t NEED a $15k-$20k car. You can get a decent used civic that runs well for $3k-$4k. So, a $20k car is a luxury. You don’t ever need to buy a new car.[/quote]

I could be wrong, but I thought he was quoting new prices. Like a civic new is about a 20k car, and if you bought it used and only paid 5 then it would be a USED 20k car you got for 5k. It is the NEW 60k car, 30k used, that he is calling a luxery that you need that kinda income for. But again I could be wrong. That is just how I read it.

I dont necessarly agree, it depends on your priorities. If you dont travel, you could use that money on car payments. If you live in middle class neighborhoods instead of trying to move up to the big time, if you dont really like eating/going out, if you dont buy alot of stuff and live minimally… cut any of these and the ability to really afford a luxery car goes up alot. The problem is that we in the USA want our luxery AND everything else too. We have learned to assign high priorities to anything that improves our lives now, not matter how fleeting; and low priorities to things that improve our lives in the long run but take time to accumulate. This is the fundamental flaw we refuse to face as a nation.

[an]

[quote=DWCAP]
I could be wrong, but I thought he was quoting new prices. Like a civic new is about a 20k car, and if you bought it used and only paid 5 then it would be a USED 20k car you got for 5k. It is the NEW 60k car, 30k used, that he is calling a luxery that you need that kinda income for. But again I could be wrong. That is just how I read it.

I dont necessarly agree, it depends on your priorities. If you dont travel, you could use that money on car payments. If you live in middle class neighborhoods instead of trying to move up to the big time, if you dont really like eating/going out, if you dont buy alot of stuff and live minimally… cut any of these and the ability to really afford a luxery car goes up alot. The problem is that we in the USA want our luxery AND everything else too. We have learned to assign high priorities to anything that improves our lives now, not matter how fleeting; and low priorities to things that improve our lives in the long run but take time to accumulate. This is the fundamental flaw we refuse to face as a nation. [/quote]
My impression was that he thinks $60k car is luxury, and in order to afford that luxury, he said such person would need to have $500k in liquid asset. So, I brought up the $20k car, and keep it linear. But then he said you can’t keep the calculation linear, because he deems $20k car is a need instead of want. I deem them both as want instead of need. If all you need is a mode of transportation, then a $4k car should be sufficient. That was my point.

[an]

[quote=DWCAP]
I could be wrong, but I thought he was quoting new prices. Like a civic new is about a 20k car, and if you bought it used and only paid 5 then it would be a USED 20k car you got for 5k. It is the NEW 60k car, 30k used, that he is calling a luxery that you need that kinda income for. But again I could be wrong. That is just how I read it.

I dont necessarly agree, it depends on your priorities. If you dont travel, you could use that money on car payments. If you live in middle class neighborhoods instead of trying to move up to the big time, if you dont really like eating/going out, if you dont buy alot of stuff and live minimally… cut any of these and the ability to really afford a luxery car goes up alot. The problem is that we in the USA want our luxery AND everything else too. We have learned to assign high priorities to anything that improves our lives now, not matter how fleeting; and low priorities to things that improve our lives in the long run but take time to accumulate. This is the fundamental flaw we refuse to face as a nation. [/quote]
My impression was that he thinks $60k car is luxury, and in order to afford that luxury, he said such person would need to have $500k in liquid asset. So, I brought up the $20k car, and keep it linear. But then he said you can’t keep the calculation linear, because he deems $20k car is a need instead of want. I deem them both as want instead of need. If all you need is a mode of transportation, then a $4k car should be sufficient. That was my point.

[an]

[quote=DWCAP]
I could be wrong, but I thought he was quoting new prices. Like a civic new is about a 20k car, and if you bought it used and only paid 5 then it would be a USED 20k car you got for 5k. It is the NEW 60k car, 30k used, that he is calling a luxery that you need that kinda income for. But again I could be wrong. That is just how I read it.

I dont necessarly agree, it depends on your priorities. If you dont travel, you could use that money on car payments. If you live in middle class neighborhoods instead of trying to move up to the big time, if you dont really like eating/going out, if you dont buy alot of stuff and live minimally… cut any of these and the ability to really afford a luxery car goes up alot. The problem is that we in the USA want our luxery AND everything else too. We have learned to assign high priorities to anything that improves our lives now, not matter how fleeting; and low priorities to things that improve our lives in the long run but take time to accumulate. This is the fundamental flaw we refuse to face as a nation. [/quote]
My impression was that he thinks $60k car is luxury, and in order to afford that luxury, he said such person would need to have $500k in liquid asset. So, I brought up the $20k car, and keep it linear. But then he said you can’t keep the calculation linear, because he deems $20k car is a need instead of want. I deem them both as want instead of need. If all you need is a mode of transportation, then a $4k car should be sufficient. That was my point.

[an]

[quote=DWCAP]
I could be wrong, but I thought he was quoting new prices. Like a civic new is about a 20k car, and if you bought it used and only paid 5 then it would be a USED 20k car you got for 5k. It is the NEW 60k car, 30k used, that he is calling a luxery that you need that kinda income for. But again I could be wrong. That is just how I read it.

I dont necessarly agree, it depends on your priorities. If you dont travel, you could use that money on car payments. If you live in middle class neighborhoods instead of trying to move up to the big time, if you dont really like eating/going out, if you dont buy alot of stuff and live minimally… cut any of these and the ability to really afford a luxery car goes up alot. The problem is that we in the USA want our luxery AND everything else too. We have learned to assign high priorities to anything that improves our lives now, not matter how fleeting; and low priorities to things that improve our lives in the long run but take time to accumulate. This is the fundamental flaw we refuse to face as a nation. [/quote]
My impression was that he thinks $60k car is luxury, and in order to afford that luxury, he said such person would need to have $500k in liquid asset. So, I brought up the $20k car, and keep it linear. But then he said you can’t keep the calculation linear, because he deems $20k car is a need instead of want. I deem them both as want instead of need. If all you need is a mode of transportation, then a $4k car should be sufficient. That was my point.

[an]

[quote=DWCAP]
I could be wrong, but I thought he was quoting new prices. Like a civic new is about a 20k car, and if you bought it used and only paid 5 then it would be a USED 20k car you got for 5k. It is the NEW 60k car, 30k used, that he is calling a luxery that you need that kinda income for. But again I could be wrong. That is just how I read it.

I dont necessarly agree, it depends on your priorities. If you dont travel, you could use that money on car payments. If you live in middle class neighborhoods instead of trying to move up to the big time, if you dont really like eating/going out, if you dont buy alot of stuff and live minimally… cut any of these and the ability to really afford a luxery car goes up alot. The problem is that we in the USA want our luxery AND everything else too. We have learned to assign high priorities to anything that improves our lives now, not matter how fleeting; and low priorities to things that improve our lives in the long run but take time to accumulate. This is the fundamental flaw we refuse to face as a nation. [/quote]
My impression was that he thinks $60k car is luxury, and in order to afford that luxury, he said such person would need to have $500k in liquid asset. So, I brought up the $20k car, and keep it linear. But then he said you can’t keep the calculation linear, because he deems $20k car is a need instead of want. I deem them both as want instead of need. If all you need is a mode of transportation, then a $4k car should be sufficient. That was my point.

[DoJC]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]I watch the number of people that pay for groceries with credit cards and locally that number is about 6 out of 10. Not debit cards, credit cards.[/quote]
I pay for everything possible with my credit card, including groceries. I do that because I get a 1% cash back in the form of a Visa Check Card, and actually lose out when I pay cash for anything.

My point: don’t assume that the mere use of a credit card to pay for groceries means that someone is living beyond their means or doing something wrong. In this society people have learned not to use cash because it is less convenient and takes trips to the bank to renew their supply, and simply pay for everything with a credit card.

I realize that there are tons of people who live way beyond their means, many of my wife’s relatives are among them, so please don’t take this is being naive to what’s going on in some people’s lives.

Back on-topic: leasing vehicles is bad for many car companies, and many of them are stuck with tons and tons of lease returns at the end of their lease. GM has lot after lot of lease returns they can’t sell, and don’t want to take any more back. To avoid this it will mean giving no incentives to people wanting to lease, and giving some-to-lots of incentives for people purchasing a car.

Go back to those same lots and see if you can get a deal by telling the salesperson you’re looking to purchase. If they give you a discount if proves the lease discouragement theory. If they act the same it’s because they’re either clueless about the massive drops in Lexus sales, or simply won’t/can’t make a deal to sell one.

[DoJC]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]I watch the number of people that pay for groceries with credit cards and locally that number is about 6 out of 10. Not debit cards, credit cards.[/quote]
I pay for everything possible with my credit card, including groceries. I do that because I get a 1% cash back in the form of a Visa Check Card, and actually lose out when I pay cash for anything.

My point: don’t assume that the mere use of a credit card to pay for groceries means that someone is living beyond their means or doing something wrong. In this society people have learned not to use cash because it is less convenient and takes trips to the bank to renew their supply, and simply pay for everything with a credit card.

I realize that there are tons of people who live way beyond their means, many of my wife’s relatives are among them, so please don’t take this is being naive to what’s going on in some people’s lives.

Back on-topic: leasing vehicles is bad for many car companies, and many of them are stuck with tons and tons of lease returns at the end of their lease. GM has lot after lot of lease returns they can’t sell, and don’t want to take any more back. To avoid this it will mean giving no incentives to people wanting to lease, and giving some-to-lots of incentives for people purchasing a car.

Go back to those same lots and see if you can get a deal by telling the salesperson you’re looking to purchase. If they give you a discount if proves the lease discouragement theory. If they act the same it’s because they’re either clueless about the massive drops in Lexus sales, or simply won’t/can’t make a deal to sell one.

[DoJC]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]I watch the number of people that pay for groceries with credit cards and locally that number is about 6 out of 10. Not debit cards, credit cards.[/quote]
I pay for everything possible with my credit card, including groceries. I do that because I get a 1% cash back in the form of a Visa Check Card, and actually lose out when I pay cash for anything.

My point: don’t assume that the mere use of a credit card to pay for groceries means that someone is living beyond their means or doing something wrong. In this society people have learned not to use cash because it is less convenient and takes trips to the bank to renew their supply, and simply pay for everything with a credit card.

I realize that there are tons of people who live way beyond their means, many of my wife’s relatives are among them, so please don’t take this is being naive to what’s going on in some people’s lives.

Back on-topic: leasing vehicles is bad for many car companies, and many of them are stuck with tons and tons of lease returns at the end of their lease. GM has lot after lot of lease returns they can’t sell, and don’t want to take any more back. To avoid this it will mean giving no incentives to people wanting to lease, and giving some-to-lots of incentives for people purchasing a car.

Go back to those same lots and see if you can get a deal by telling the salesperson you’re looking to purchase. If they give you a discount if proves the lease discouragement theory. If they act the same it’s because they’re either clueless about the massive drops in Lexus sales, or simply won’t/can’t make a deal to sell one.

[DoJC]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]I watch the number of people that pay for groceries with credit cards and locally that number is about 6 out of 10. Not debit cards, credit cards.[/quote]
I pay for everything possible with my credit card, including groceries. I do that because I get a 1% cash back in the form of a Visa Check Card, and actually lose out when I pay cash for anything.

My point: don’t assume that the mere use of a credit card to pay for groceries means that someone is living beyond their means or doing something wrong. In this society people have learned not to use cash because it is less convenient and takes trips to the bank to renew their supply, and simply pay for everything with a credit card.

I realize that there are tons of people who live way beyond their means, many of my wife’s relatives are among them, so please don’t take this is being naive to what’s going on in some people’s lives.

Back on-topic: leasing vehicles is bad for many car companies, and many of them are stuck with tons and tons of lease returns at the end of their lease. GM has lot after lot of lease returns they can’t sell, and don’t want to take any more back. To avoid this it will mean giving no incentives to people wanting to lease, and giving some-to-lots of incentives for people purchasing a car.

Go back to those same lots and see if you can get a deal by telling the salesperson you’re looking to purchase. If they give you a discount if proves the lease discouragement theory. If they act the same it’s because they’re either clueless about the massive drops in Lexus sales, or simply won’t/can’t make a deal to sell one.

[DoJC]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]I watch the number of people that pay for groceries with credit cards and locally that number is about 6 out of 10. Not debit cards, credit cards.[/quote]
I pay for everything possible with my credit card, including groceries. I do that because I get a 1% cash back in the form of a Visa Check Card, and actually lose out when I pay cash for anything.

My point: don’t assume that the mere use of a credit card to pay for groceries means that someone is living beyond their means or doing something wrong. In this society people have learned not to use cash because it is less convenient and takes trips to the bank to renew their supply, and simply pay for everything with a credit card.

I realize that there are tons of people who live way beyond their means, many of my wife’s relatives are among them, so please don’t take this is being naive to what’s going on in some people’s lives.

Back on-topic: leasing vehicles is bad for many car companies, and many of them are stuck with tons and tons of lease returns at the end of their lease. GM has lot after lot of lease returns they can’t sell, and don’t want to take any more back. To avoid this it will mean giving no incentives to people wanting to lease, and giving some-to-lots of incentives for people purchasing a car.

Go back to those same lots and see if you can get a deal by telling the salesperson you’re looking to purchase. If they give you a discount if proves the lease discouragement theory. If they act the same it’s because they’re either clueless about the massive drops in Lexus sales, or simply won’t/can’t make a deal to sell one.

[UCGal]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]I watch the number of people that pay for groceries with credit cards and locally that number is about 6 out of 10. Not debit cards, credit cards.

For far too many years, people equated wealth with credit and the two have nothing to do with each other. The people really getting squeezed are those that relied on having access to all that credit and now it’s being taken away.[/quote]

Add me to the chorus of people who pay for groceries with the credit card (costco amex) and get the cash back. I pay the bill in full every month, don’t carry a balance.

I agree with your statement about people getting confused between available credit and wealth. To me, wealth is having lots of large assets that are owned outright… not mortgaged. If you’re making payments on all of your stuff (house, cars, boats, etc.) you might not be as wealthy as you look.

[UCGal]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]I watch the number of people that pay for groceries with credit cards and locally that number is about 6 out of 10. Not debit cards, credit cards.

For far too many years, people equated wealth with credit and the two have nothing to do with each other. The people really getting squeezed are those that relied on having access to all that credit and now it’s being taken away.[/quote]

Add me to the chorus of people who pay for groceries with the credit card (costco amex) and get the cash back. I pay the bill in full every month, don’t carry a balance.

I agree with your statement about people getting confused between available credit and wealth. To me, wealth is having lots of large assets that are owned outright… not mortgaged. If you’re making payments on all of your stuff (house, cars, boats, etc.) you might not be as wealthy as you look.

[UCGal]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]I watch the number of people that pay for groceries with credit cards and locally that number is about 6 out of 10. Not debit cards, credit cards.

For far too many years, people equated wealth with credit and the two have nothing to do with each other. The people really getting squeezed are those that relied on having access to all that credit and now it’s being taken away.[/quote]

Add me to the chorus of people who pay for groceries with the credit card (costco amex) and get the cash back. I pay the bill in full every month, don’t carry a balance.

I agree with your statement about people getting confused between available credit and wealth. To me, wealth is having lots of large assets that are owned outright… not mortgaged. If you’re making payments on all of your stuff (house, cars, boats, etc.) you might not be as wealthy as you look.

[Author]

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