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June 3, 2009 at 5:25 PM #410709June 3, 2009 at 5:41 PM #410010
partypup
Participant[quote=SD Realtor]China students literally laughed at Geitner when he was asked about the US being a reliable investment.
They LAUGHED at him.
Forget about respect and decorum.
Of course it was all over the press…. oh maybe not.
Anyways it doesn’t really matter does it. I do not believe the big rollover will happen yet. To early. The administration cannot have it happen yet… So
It will not. [/quote]
Obama can’t stop it. It’s like gravity now. If Obama tosses his size 11 Versace loafer in the air, can he keep it from falling to the ground?
That’s about how much power Obama has at this point to avert a complete meltdown. What the administration doesn’t want to happen and what WILL happen are two entirely different things at this point in the game.
Hell, we just sold the Chinese Hummer! Reportedly, the original military grade HumVee know-how still resides at Hummer. Basically, the Chinese have bought the company that knows how to build the best all-terrain vehicle ever made. So when their 1 billion soldiers are ready to kick ass, they’ll be fully-outfitted.
It would be foolish to think that Geithner didn’t have to give away the store on his trip to China this week. I imagine the conversation went something like this:
GEITHNER: So, what do we have to do to keep you guys buying our junk?
PREMIER HU: What do you think we are, fools? We’re not touching that stuff anymore unless you plan to sweeten the deal with something of real value. What else you got?
GEITHNER: Well…since we’re basically insolvent and really won’t have any money to support a war effort in the future, I guess we won’t be needing any all terrain ground transportation. We’re taking over GM (coincidentally!), so if you want the Hummer, it’s yours.
HU:We’ll take it. Let us know when NASA goes on the block. We’re interested.
The country is being gutted and dismembered by Dear Leader Obama.
Chinese students aren’t the only ones laughing.
June 3, 2009 at 5:41 PM #410250Participant[quote=SD Realtor]China students literally laughed at Geitner when he was asked about the US being a reliable investment.
They LAUGHED at him.
Forget about respect and decorum.
Of course it was all over the press…. oh maybe not.
Anyways it doesn’t really matter does it. I do not believe the big rollover will happen yet. To early. The administration cannot have it happen yet… So
It will not. [/quote]
Obama can’t stop it. It’s like gravity now. If Obama tosses his size 11 Versace loafer in the air, can he keep it from falling to the ground?
That’s about how much power Obama has at this point to avert a complete meltdown. What the administration doesn’t want to happen and what WILL happen are two entirely different things at this point in the game.
Hell, we just sold the Chinese Hummer! Reportedly, the original military grade HumVee know-how still resides at Hummer. Basically, the Chinese have bought the company that knows how to build the best all-terrain vehicle ever made. So when their 1 billion soldiers are ready to kick ass, they’ll be fully-outfitted.
It would be foolish to think that Geithner didn’t have to give away the store on his trip to China this week. I imagine the conversation went something like this:
GEITHNER: So, what do we have to do to keep you guys buying our junk?
PREMIER HU: What do you think we are, fools? We’re not touching that stuff anymore unless you plan to sweeten the deal with something of real value. What else you got?
GEITHNER: Well…since we’re basically insolvent and really won’t have any money to support a war effort in the future, I guess we won’t be needing any all terrain ground transportation. We’re taking over GM (coincidentally!), so if you want the Hummer, it’s yours.
HU:We’ll take it. Let us know when NASA goes on the block. We’re interested.
The country is being gutted and dismembered by Dear Leader Obama.
Chinese students aren’t the only ones laughing.
June 3, 2009 at 5:41 PM #410497Participant[quote=SD Realtor]China students literally laughed at Geitner when he was asked about the US being a reliable investment.
They LAUGHED at him.
Forget about respect and decorum.
Of course it was all over the press…. oh maybe not.
Anyways it doesn’t really matter does it. I do not believe the big rollover will happen yet. To early. The administration cannot have it happen yet… So
It will not. [/quote]
Obama can’t stop it. It’s like gravity now. If Obama tosses his size 11 Versace loafer in the air, can he keep it from falling to the ground?
That’s about how much power Obama has at this point to avert a complete meltdown. What the administration doesn’t want to happen and what WILL happen are two entirely different things at this point in the game.
Hell, we just sold the Chinese Hummer! Reportedly, the original military grade HumVee know-how still resides at Hummer. Basically, the Chinese have bought the company that knows how to build the best all-terrain vehicle ever made. So when their 1 billion soldiers are ready to kick ass, they’ll be fully-outfitted.
It would be foolish to think that Geithner didn’t have to give away the store on his trip to China this week. I imagine the conversation went something like this:
GEITHNER: So, what do we have to do to keep you guys buying our junk?
PREMIER HU: What do you think we are, fools? We’re not touching that stuff anymore unless you plan to sweeten the deal with something of real value. What else you got?
GEITHNER: Well…since we’re basically insolvent and really won’t have any money to support a war effort in the future, I guess we won’t be needing any all terrain ground transportation. We’re taking over GM (coincidentally!), so if you want the Hummer, it’s yours.
HU:We’ll take it. Let us know when NASA goes on the block. We’re interested.
The country is being gutted and dismembered by Dear Leader Obama.
Chinese students aren’t the only ones laughing.
June 3, 2009 at 5:41 PM #410560Participant[quote=SD Realtor]China students literally laughed at Geitner when he was asked about the US being a reliable investment.
They LAUGHED at him.
Forget about respect and decorum.
Of course it was all over the press…. oh maybe not.
Anyways it doesn’t really matter does it. I do not believe the big rollover will happen yet. To early. The administration cannot have it happen yet… So
It will not. [/quote]
Obama can’t stop it. It’s like gravity now. If Obama tosses his size 11 Versace loafer in the air, can he keep it from falling to the ground?
That’s about how much power Obama has at this point to avert a complete meltdown. What the administration doesn’t want to happen and what WILL happen are two entirely different things at this point in the game.
Hell, we just sold the Chinese Hummer! Reportedly, the original military grade HumVee know-how still resides at Hummer. Basically, the Chinese have bought the company that knows how to build the best all-terrain vehicle ever made. So when their 1 billion soldiers are ready to kick ass, they’ll be fully-outfitted.
It would be foolish to think that Geithner didn’t have to give away the store on his trip to China this week. I imagine the conversation went something like this:
GEITHNER: So, what do we have to do to keep you guys buying our junk?
PREMIER HU: What do you think we are, fools? We’re not touching that stuff anymore unless you plan to sweeten the deal with something of real value. What else you got?
GEITHNER: Well…since we’re basically insolvent and really won’t have any money to support a war effort in the future, I guess we won’t be needing any all terrain ground transportation. We’re taking over GM (coincidentally!), so if you want the Hummer, it’s yours.
HU:We’ll take it. Let us know when NASA goes on the block. We’re interested.
The country is being gutted and dismembered by Dear Leader Obama.
Chinese students aren’t the only ones laughing.
June 3, 2009 at 5:41 PM #410714Participant[quote=SD Realtor]China students literally laughed at Geitner when he was asked about the US being a reliable investment.
They LAUGHED at him.
Forget about respect and decorum.
Of course it was all over the press…. oh maybe not.
Anyways it doesn’t really matter does it. I do not believe the big rollover will happen yet. To early. The administration cannot have it happen yet… So
It will not. [/quote]
Obama can’t stop it. It’s like gravity now. If Obama tosses his size 11 Versace loafer in the air, can he keep it from falling to the ground?
That’s about how much power Obama has at this point to avert a complete meltdown. What the administration doesn’t want to happen and what WILL happen are two entirely different things at this point in the game.
Hell, we just sold the Chinese Hummer! Reportedly, the original military grade HumVee know-how still resides at Hummer. Basically, the Chinese have bought the company that knows how to build the best all-terrain vehicle ever made. So when their 1 billion soldiers are ready to kick ass, they’ll be fully-outfitted.
It would be foolish to think that Geithner didn’t have to give away the store on his trip to China this week. I imagine the conversation went something like this:
GEITHNER: So, what do we have to do to keep you guys buying our junk?
PREMIER HU: What do you think we are, fools? We’re not touching that stuff anymore unless you plan to sweeten the deal with something of real value. What else you got?
GEITHNER: Well…since we’re basically insolvent and really won’t have any money to support a war effort in the future, I guess we won’t be needing any all terrain ground transportation. We’re taking over GM (coincidentally!), so if you want the Hummer, it’s yours.
HU:We’ll take it. Let us know when NASA goes on the block. We’re interested.
The country is being gutted and dismembered by Dear Leader Obama.
Chinese students aren’t the only ones laughing.
June 3, 2009 at 6:23 PM #410045patientrenter
Participant[quote=Bob]I know this might sound shocking to some of the readers, but at this point, I’m almost hoping for a massive increase in interest rates, and perhaps even hyper-inflation. Unfortunately, that might be the only way to stop the jokers in Washington from continuing their spending spree. And it also might cause voters to boot the socialists out of congress in 2010. Short term pain might result in long term gain.[/quote]
How would high inflation punish the most irresponsible or contain govt spending? High inflation is the primary financial goal of govt now, and is favored by maybe half the business community, and probably 2/3 or more of all voters. Why? Because a lot of them borrowed and spent like drunken sailors, and high inflation lets a lot of them off the hook for the debt repayment (in real terms).
If you wanted to teach the lesson that overspending is bad, you’d deflate. The pain of debt repayment is proportionate to (Interest rate – inflation rate). So increase interest rates and/or deflate, not inflate.
All theoretical, of course. We will inflate and hold interest rates relatively low, so the real interest rate will be forced to be low, probably quite negative. That will tank the dollar. And that’s the end game:
1. Inflation
2. Negative real interest rates
3. Lower dollar value
By the way, you can get negative real rates without ever showing Treasury rates less than CPI inflation rates. How? A lot of debt (like mortgages) is at fixed rates of interest, so just arrange for massive amounts of financing of debts at low fixed rates,and then inflate. Treasury rates rise some, even with the Fed pushing down, but there’s a huge windfall for all the people who borrowed at the earlier fixed rates. So effective real rates become negative for large chunks of the economy, without ever showing up in the stats as negative real rates.
June 3, 2009 at 6:23 PM #410284Participant[quote=Bob]I know this might sound shocking to some of the readers, but at this point, I’m almost hoping for a massive increase in interest rates, and perhaps even hyper-inflation. Unfortunately, that might be the only way to stop the jokers in Washington from continuing their spending spree. And it also might cause voters to boot the socialists out of congress in 2010. Short term pain might result in long term gain.[/quote]
How would high inflation punish the most irresponsible or contain govt spending? High inflation is the primary financial goal of govt now, and is favored by maybe half the business community, and probably 2/3 or more of all voters. Why? Because a lot of them borrowed and spent like drunken sailors, and high inflation lets a lot of them off the hook for the debt repayment (in real terms).
If you wanted to teach the lesson that overspending is bad, you’d deflate. The pain of debt repayment is proportionate to (Interest rate – inflation rate). So increase interest rates and/or deflate, not inflate.
All theoretical, of course. We will inflate and hold interest rates relatively low, so the real interest rate will be forced to be low, probably quite negative. That will tank the dollar. And that’s the end game:
1. Inflation
2. Negative real interest rates
3. Lower dollar value
By the way, you can get negative real rates without ever showing Treasury rates less than CPI inflation rates. How? A lot of debt (like mortgages) is at fixed rates of interest, so just arrange for massive amounts of financing of debts at low fixed rates,and then inflate. Treasury rates rise some, even with the Fed pushing down, but there’s a huge windfall for all the people who borrowed at the earlier fixed rates. So effective real rates become negative for large chunks of the economy, without ever showing up in the stats as negative real rates.
June 3, 2009 at 6:23 PM #410531Participant[quote=Bob]I know this might sound shocking to some of the readers, but at this point, I’m almost hoping for a massive increase in interest rates, and perhaps even hyper-inflation. Unfortunately, that might be the only way to stop the jokers in Washington from continuing their spending spree. And it also might cause voters to boot the socialists out of congress in 2010. Short term pain might result in long term gain.[/quote]
How would high inflation punish the most irresponsible or contain govt spending? High inflation is the primary financial goal of govt now, and is favored by maybe half the business community, and probably 2/3 or more of all voters. Why? Because a lot of them borrowed and spent like drunken sailors, and high inflation lets a lot of them off the hook for the debt repayment (in real terms).
If you wanted to teach the lesson that overspending is bad, you’d deflate. The pain of debt repayment is proportionate to (Interest rate – inflation rate). So increase interest rates and/or deflate, not inflate.
All theoretical, of course. We will inflate and hold interest rates relatively low, so the real interest rate will be forced to be low, probably quite negative. That will tank the dollar. And that’s the end game:
1. Inflation
2. Negative real interest rates
3. Lower dollar value
By the way, you can get negative real rates without ever showing Treasury rates less than CPI inflation rates. How? A lot of debt (like mortgages) is at fixed rates of interest, so just arrange for massive amounts of financing of debts at low fixed rates,and then inflate. Treasury rates rise some, even with the Fed pushing down, but there’s a huge windfall for all the people who borrowed at the earlier fixed rates. So effective real rates become negative for large chunks of the economy, without ever showing up in the stats as negative real rates.
June 3, 2009 at 6:23 PM #410595Participant[quote=Bob]I know this might sound shocking to some of the readers, but at this point, I’m almost hoping for a massive increase in interest rates, and perhaps even hyper-inflation. Unfortunately, that might be the only way to stop the jokers in Washington from continuing their spending spree. And it also might cause voters to boot the socialists out of congress in 2010. Short term pain might result in long term gain.[/quote]
How would high inflation punish the most irresponsible or contain govt spending? High inflation is the primary financial goal of govt now, and is favored by maybe half the business community, and probably 2/3 or more of all voters. Why? Because a lot of them borrowed and spent like drunken sailors, and high inflation lets a lot of them off the hook for the debt repayment (in real terms).
If you wanted to teach the lesson that overspending is bad, you’d deflate. The pain of debt repayment is proportionate to (Interest rate – inflation rate). So increase interest rates and/or deflate, not inflate.
All theoretical, of course. We will inflate and hold interest rates relatively low, so the real interest rate will be forced to be low, probably quite negative. That will tank the dollar. And that’s the end game:
1. Inflation
2. Negative real interest rates
3. Lower dollar value
By the way, you can get negative real rates without ever showing Treasury rates less than CPI inflation rates. How? A lot of debt (like mortgages) is at fixed rates of interest, so just arrange for massive amounts of financing of debts at low fixed rates,and then inflate. Treasury rates rise some, even with the Fed pushing down, but there’s a huge windfall for all the people who borrowed at the earlier fixed rates. So effective real rates become negative for large chunks of the economy, without ever showing up in the stats as negative real rates.
June 3, 2009 at 6:23 PM #410749Participant[quote=Bob]I know this might sound shocking to some of the readers, but at this point, I’m almost hoping for a massive increase in interest rates, and perhaps even hyper-inflation. Unfortunately, that might be the only way to stop the jokers in Washington from continuing their spending spree. And it also might cause voters to boot the socialists out of congress in 2010. Short term pain might result in long term gain.[/quote]
How would high inflation punish the most irresponsible or contain govt spending? High inflation is the primary financial goal of govt now, and is favored by maybe half the business community, and probably 2/3 or more of all voters. Why? Because a lot of them borrowed and spent like drunken sailors, and high inflation lets a lot of them off the hook for the debt repayment (in real terms).
If you wanted to teach the lesson that overspending is bad, you’d deflate. The pain of debt repayment is proportionate to (Interest rate – inflation rate). So increase interest rates and/or deflate, not inflate.
All theoretical, of course. We will inflate and hold interest rates relatively low, so the real interest rate will be forced to be low, probably quite negative. That will tank the dollar. And that’s the end game:
1. Inflation
2. Negative real interest rates
3. Lower dollar value
By the way, you can get negative real rates without ever showing Treasury rates less than CPI inflation rates. How? A lot of debt (like mortgages) is at fixed rates of interest, so just arrange for massive amounts of financing of debts at low fixed rates,and then inflate. Treasury rates rise some, even with the Fed pushing down, but there’s a huge windfall for all the people who borrowed at the earlier fixed rates. So effective real rates become negative for large chunks of the economy, without ever showing up in the stats as negative real rates.
June 3, 2009 at 6:35 PM #410030Participantpartypup, you make it sound like some little cabal of upper-echelon US bankers and policy administrators are selling out the US. In a way, that is happening. But they are simply trying to find ways for the American people – you know, that huge mass of innocence and goodness and light – to continue to do what they insist on doing. What do they insist on? Investing without saving, spending without earning. House prices and stock prices going up forever, and borrowing without end.
If we lived in an old-fashioned kingdom under an absolute monarch, or some other top-down political system, then the right people to blame would be the few people at the very top. But we live in a democracy, imperfect as it is. Our politicians’ actions reflect, mostly, what we the voters demand. What’s going on between Geithner and Hu and all the other leaders is not THEM, it’s US. Blaming THEM is just compounding our failure to act responsibly by not even taking responsibility in the first place.
I realize conspiracy theories are a lot sexier, but they end up letting the people who are really irresponsible off the hook.
Oh, and why do you think the Democratic party is more committed to financial irresponsibility than Republicans? Arthur Burns was put in by Republicans, Paul Volcker by Dems. As far as I can tell, they both get near-perfect scores in the current bout of financial irresponsibility.
June 3, 2009 at 6:35 PM #410270Participantpartypup, you make it sound like some little cabal of upper-echelon US bankers and policy administrators are selling out the US. In a way, that is happening. But they are simply trying to find ways for the American people – you know, that huge mass of innocence and goodness and light – to continue to do what they insist on doing. What do they insist on? Investing without saving, spending without earning. House prices and stock prices going up forever, and borrowing without end.
If we lived in an old-fashioned kingdom under an absolute monarch, or some other top-down political system, then the right people to blame would be the few people at the very top. But we live in a democracy, imperfect as it is. Our politicians’ actions reflect, mostly, what we the voters demand. What’s going on between Geithner and Hu and all the other leaders is not THEM, it’s US. Blaming THEM is just compounding our failure to act responsibly by not even taking responsibility in the first place.
I realize conspiracy theories are a lot sexier, but they end up letting the people who are really irresponsible off the hook.
Oh, and why do you think the Democratic party is more committed to financial irresponsibility than Republicans? Arthur Burns was put in by Republicans, Paul Volcker by Dems. As far as I can tell, they both get near-perfect scores in the current bout of financial irresponsibility.
June 3, 2009 at 6:35 PM #410516Participantpartypup, you make it sound like some little cabal of upper-echelon US bankers and policy administrators are selling out the US. In a way, that is happening. But they are simply trying to find ways for the American people – you know, that huge mass of innocence and goodness and light – to continue to do what they insist on doing. What do they insist on? Investing without saving, spending without earning. House prices and stock prices going up forever, and borrowing without end.
If we lived in an old-fashioned kingdom under an absolute monarch, or some other top-down political system, then the right people to blame would be the few people at the very top. But we live in a democracy, imperfect as it is. Our politicians’ actions reflect, mostly, what we the voters demand. What’s going on between Geithner and Hu and all the other leaders is not THEM, it’s US. Blaming THEM is just compounding our failure to act responsibly by not even taking responsibility in the first place.
I realize conspiracy theories are a lot sexier, but they end up letting the people who are really irresponsible off the hook.
Oh, and why do you think the Democratic party is more committed to financial irresponsibility than Republicans? Arthur Burns was put in by Republicans, Paul Volcker by Dems. As far as I can tell, they both get near-perfect scores in the current bout of financial irresponsibility.
June 3, 2009 at 6:35 PM #410580Participantpartypup, you make it sound like some little cabal of upper-echelon US bankers and policy administrators are selling out the US. In a way, that is happening. But they are simply trying to find ways for the American people – you know, that huge mass of innocence and goodness and light – to continue to do what they insist on doing. What do they insist on? Investing without saving, spending without earning. House prices and stock prices going up forever, and borrowing without end.
If we lived in an old-fashioned kingdom under an absolute monarch, or some other top-down political system, then the right people to blame would be the few people at the very top. But we live in a democracy, imperfect as it is. Our politicians’ actions reflect, mostly, what we the voters demand. What’s going on between Geithner and Hu and all the other leaders is not THEM, it’s US. Blaming THEM is just compounding our failure to act responsibly by not even taking responsibility in the first place.
I realize conspiracy theories are a lot sexier, but they end up letting the people who are really irresponsible off the hook.
Oh, and why do you think the Democratic party is more committed to financial irresponsibility than Republicans? Arthur Burns was put in by Republicans, Paul Volcker by Dems. As far as I can tell, they both get near-perfect scores in the current bout of financial irresponsibility.
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