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August 5, 2007 at 8:08 PM #9723August 5, 2007 at 8:31 PM #70643Allan from FallbrookParticipant
As an accountant, one of the warning signs you heed when it comes to a company in extremis is when they “draw (down) the revolvers”.
In Beazer’s case, this might be a sign that the jig is up.
Several of the other key players, such as Lennar, Pulte, KB, Horton, Toll, etc have also been bleeding pretty badly when it comes to quarterly losses. I think Beazer is in a more financially precarious position and I think another significant reverse might be the end – the end being BK, of course.
If that happens, it will be interesting to see what happens to other homebuilders as regards market reaction and stock price(s).
August 5, 2007 at 8:31 PM #70765Allan from FallbrookParticipantAs an accountant, one of the warning signs you heed when it comes to a company in extremis is when they “draw (down) the revolvers”.
In Beazer’s case, this might be a sign that the jig is up.
Several of the other key players, such as Lennar, Pulte, KB, Horton, Toll, etc have also been bleeding pretty badly when it comes to quarterly losses. I think Beazer is in a more financially precarious position and I think another significant reverse might be the end – the end being BK, of course.
If that happens, it will be interesting to see what happens to other homebuilders as regards market reaction and stock price(s).
August 5, 2007 at 8:31 PM #70758Allan from FallbrookParticipantAs an accountant, one of the warning signs you heed when it comes to a company in extremis is when they “draw (down) the revolvers”.
In Beazer’s case, this might be a sign that the jig is up.
Several of the other key players, such as Lennar, Pulte, KB, Horton, Toll, etc have also been bleeding pretty badly when it comes to quarterly losses. I think Beazer is in a more financially precarious position and I think another significant reverse might be the end – the end being BK, of course.
If that happens, it will be interesting to see what happens to other homebuilders as regards market reaction and stock price(s).
August 5, 2007 at 8:44 PM #70655bsrsharmaParticipantWhen you say “kaput” or “BK” are you meaning Chapter 11 reorg or liquidation (Chapter 7)? If it is Chapter 11, it is no biggie; they can ride through the down turn. I think all builders will go through some sort of bankruptcy during the big bang – the question is can they reorganize or liquidate.
August 5, 2007 at 8:44 PM #70775bsrsharmaParticipantWhen you say “kaput” or “BK” are you meaning Chapter 11 reorg or liquidation (Chapter 7)? If it is Chapter 11, it is no biggie; they can ride through the down turn. I think all builders will go through some sort of bankruptcy during the big bang – the question is can they reorganize or liquidate.
August 5, 2007 at 8:44 PM #70770bsrsharmaParticipantWhen you say “kaput” or “BK” are you meaning Chapter 11 reorg or liquidation (Chapter 7)? If it is Chapter 11, it is no biggie; they can ride through the down turn. I think all builders will go through some sort of bankruptcy during the big bang – the question is can they reorganize or liquidate.
August 5, 2007 at 8:52 PM #70658Allan from FallbrookParticipantThis is a pure WAG, but a cursory look at their financials (provided in the post) would indicate the latter (Chap 7), rather than the former.
Risk is being punished on Wall Street right now, and there is little patience or mercy being shown. Given their rate of burn and the amount of exposure shown on their Balance Sheet, I would imagine they are in an extremely vulnerable position right now.
Add that credit crunch to the picture, and it becomes somewhat hard to imagine that someone is going to ride to their rescue in the instance of a margin call.
Again, just a guess.
August 5, 2007 at 8:52 PM #70778Allan from FallbrookParticipantThis is a pure WAG, but a cursory look at their financials (provided in the post) would indicate the latter (Chap 7), rather than the former.
Risk is being punished on Wall Street right now, and there is little patience or mercy being shown. Given their rate of burn and the amount of exposure shown on their Balance Sheet, I would imagine they are in an extremely vulnerable position right now.
Add that credit crunch to the picture, and it becomes somewhat hard to imagine that someone is going to ride to their rescue in the instance of a margin call.
Again, just a guess.
August 5, 2007 at 8:52 PM #70773Allan from FallbrookParticipantThis is a pure WAG, but a cursory look at their financials (provided in the post) would indicate the latter (Chap 7), rather than the former.
Risk is being punished on Wall Street right now, and there is little patience or mercy being shown. Given their rate of burn and the amount of exposure shown on their Balance Sheet, I would imagine they are in an extremely vulnerable position right now.
Add that credit crunch to the picture, and it becomes somewhat hard to imagine that someone is going to ride to their rescue in the instance of a margin call.
Again, just a guess.
August 5, 2007 at 9:09 PM #70798TheBreezeParticipantWhen you say “kaput” or “BK” are you meaning Chapter 11 reorg or liquidation (Chapter 7)? If it is Chapter 11, it is no biggie; they can ride through the down turn. I think all builders will go through some sort of bankruptcy during the big bang – the question is can they reorganize or liquidate.
No idea. I’m not an accountant, just a layman trying to see if I can figure out what’s going to happen to Beazer. According to their March 10-Q, Beazer had $2.9 billion in inventory (land and homes), $462 million in what appear to be options on real estate, $200 million in cash, $66 million in receivables, and $526 million in miscellaneous assets. In that same quarter Beazer had $2.6 billion in total liabilities.
On the call, Beazer stated that their “tangible net worth” was $1.3 billion as of June 30. However, their current market cap is only $441 million. Thus, the market is saying that Beazer is worth ~$859 million less than what Beazer said on the call. My guess is that the market is saying that the $462 million in option contracts is worthless and that the inventory is now only worth around $2.5 billion. Is that enough of a write-down? That would be about %16.
My guess is that a 16% write-down is not enough. Although Beazer is still making sales ($800 million worth in the March quarter), I would bet that the inventory that they have left is stuff that is hard to turn and will get harder to turn. If the inventory turns about to be worth 70% of what it is listed at on the balance sheet, then Beazer’s debt is basically greater than it’s assets and they would be chapter 7 (right?)
I’ve made a lot of assumptions in this post, and I’m not an expert, so I would appreciate feedback from you experts out there to point out places where I’ve steered down the wrong path in this post. And thanks for the responses so far.
August 5, 2007 at 9:09 PM #70792TheBreezeParticipantWhen you say “kaput” or “BK” are you meaning Chapter 11 reorg or liquidation (Chapter 7)? If it is Chapter 11, it is no biggie; they can ride through the down turn. I think all builders will go through some sort of bankruptcy during the big bang – the question is can they reorganize or liquidate.
No idea. I’m not an accountant, just a layman trying to see if I can figure out what’s going to happen to Beazer. According to their March 10-Q, Beazer had $2.9 billion in inventory (land and homes), $462 million in what appear to be options on real estate, $200 million in cash, $66 million in receivables, and $526 million in miscellaneous assets. In that same quarter Beazer had $2.6 billion in total liabilities.
On the call, Beazer stated that their “tangible net worth” was $1.3 billion as of June 30. However, their current market cap is only $441 million. Thus, the market is saying that Beazer is worth ~$859 million less than what Beazer said on the call. My guess is that the market is saying that the $462 million in option contracts is worthless and that the inventory is now only worth around $2.5 billion. Is that enough of a write-down? That would be about %16.
My guess is that a 16% write-down is not enough. Although Beazer is still making sales ($800 million worth in the March quarter), I would bet that the inventory that they have left is stuff that is hard to turn and will get harder to turn. If the inventory turns about to be worth 70% of what it is listed at on the balance sheet, then Beazer’s debt is basically greater than it’s assets and they would be chapter 7 (right?)
I’ve made a lot of assumptions in this post, and I’m not an expert, so I would appreciate feedback from you experts out there to point out places where I’ve steered down the wrong path in this post. And thanks for the responses so far.
August 5, 2007 at 9:09 PM #70675TheBreezeParticipantWhen you say “kaput” or “BK” are you meaning Chapter 11 reorg or liquidation (Chapter 7)? If it is Chapter 11, it is no biggie; they can ride through the down turn. I think all builders will go through some sort of bankruptcy during the big bang – the question is can they reorganize or liquidate.
No idea. I’m not an accountant, just a layman trying to see if I can figure out what’s going to happen to Beazer. According to their March 10-Q, Beazer had $2.9 billion in inventory (land and homes), $462 million in what appear to be options on real estate, $200 million in cash, $66 million in receivables, and $526 million in miscellaneous assets. In that same quarter Beazer had $2.6 billion in total liabilities.
On the call, Beazer stated that their “tangible net worth” was $1.3 billion as of June 30. However, their current market cap is only $441 million. Thus, the market is saying that Beazer is worth ~$859 million less than what Beazer said on the call. My guess is that the market is saying that the $462 million in option contracts is worthless and that the inventory is now only worth around $2.5 billion. Is that enough of a write-down? That would be about %16.
My guess is that a 16% write-down is not enough. Although Beazer is still making sales ($800 million worth in the March quarter), I would bet that the inventory that they have left is stuff that is hard to turn and will get harder to turn. If the inventory turns about to be worth 70% of what it is listed at on the balance sheet, then Beazer’s debt is basically greater than it’s assets and they would be chapter 7 (right?)
I’ve made a lot of assumptions in this post, and I’m not an expert, so I would appreciate feedback from you experts out there to point out places where I’ve steered down the wrong path in this post. And thanks for the responses so far.
August 5, 2007 at 9:20 PM #70678temeculaguyParticipantI would worry about WCI because it is all over the florida condo market (current stock at $6 compared to years in the twenties), D.R. horton has a 5 year supply of land that is killing them, but, (and I hate to repeat anything cramer says) he mentioned Standard Pacific (SPF) as a company he wouldn’t loan a nickel to right now if he was a lender. Of course he also thinks KB may go out of business but the Wall Street journal says they have a good cash flow. WSJ says Lennar has the best cash flow in the industry, I wouldn’t short them right now, they may fall with the industry but not at the same percentage and they also look to be one of the survivors on the other side, in a five year comparison to the industry they are performing 50% better and only lost 1% in friday’s slide when the other got killed.
August 5, 2007 at 9:20 PM #70800temeculaguyParticipantI would worry about WCI because it is all over the florida condo market (current stock at $6 compared to years in the twenties), D.R. horton has a 5 year supply of land that is killing them, but, (and I hate to repeat anything cramer says) he mentioned Standard Pacific (SPF) as a company he wouldn’t loan a nickel to right now if he was a lender. Of course he also thinks KB may go out of business but the Wall Street journal says they have a good cash flow. WSJ says Lennar has the best cash flow in the industry, I wouldn’t short them right now, they may fall with the industry but not at the same percentage and they also look to be one of the survivors on the other side, in a five year comparison to the industry they are performing 50% better and only lost 1% in friday’s slide when the other got killed.
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