Backdoor to socialized medicine?

[Jim Jones]

[quote=briansd1][quote=flu]
You think $8500/yr per person is enough for small biz that is covering employees with a mix of ages including some in 45-50 years old with pre-existing conditions? Boy, like I suspected, you only looked at rates for yourself, you’re probably young, and haven’t had any medical issues. I hope for your sake that continues.[/quote]

It’s $8,500 per person if single, and $23,000 for a family.

flu, there is a good chance that your family’s health insurance plan is not costing your employer more than $23,000. That’s why I suggested that you check with your HR department.

If your company is paying substantially more, then you really should

1/ support the Bill because you company can participate in an insurance exchange that comprises million of employees. Your company will then benefit from the rate schedules of the exchange rather than be constrained to its own small group rating.

2/ or better yet, wish for a government-run single-payer system. Your company would pay out all compensation in salaries and the government would take care of health care. One less worry for company executives.

Like ocrenter posted before, a single payer system is business friendly because it obviates the need for businesses to provide health insurance.

Additionally, employees would never be insurance-locked to jobs so they’ll be free to become entrepreneurs and innovate, if they wish.[/quote]

What the single payer system would do is externalize the costs of medial care from industry to another sector.

I like a single payer in a perfect world, but in a modern society with the costs it is not really something that adds up.

Look at the addition of user fees all over Canada and the UK for their national health services. $20 here $10 there adds up and is a form of rationing. This legislation goes in the opposite direction making all preventative care etc. free of these fees starting in 2018.

In order to control costs a free good required some rationing. When productive members of society are rationed they tend to get upset, I think that is part of the dissatisfaction with the legislation.

[briansd1]

[quote=Jim Jones]

What the single payer system would do is externalize the costs of medial care from industry to another sector.[/quote]

True. But as a businessman, flu should like that because a single payer system would immediately shift the healthcare costs of his company to someone else. His company will make more money… (Not that we will ever have a single-payer system)

[quote=Jim Jones]
I like a single payer in a perfect world, but in a modern society with the costs it is not really something that adds up.
[/quote]

Why not?

[quote=Jim Jones]
Look at the addition of user fees all over Canada and the UK for their national health services. $20 here $10 there adds up and is a form of rationing. This legislation goes in the opposite direction making all preventative care etc. free of these fees starting in 2018. [/quote]

I thought that we had co-pays?

I personally like the high deductible or catastrophic policies combined with health savings accounts.

[quote=Jim Jones]
In order to control costs a free good required some rationing.
[/quote]

Very true.

[quote=Jim Jones]
When productive members of society are rationed they tend to get upset, I think that is part of the dissatisfaction with the legislation.[/quote]

I don’t think that the dissatisfaction with this Bill is rational. It’s fed by misinformation and fear.

When unemployed Tea Partiers, who should be supporting a stronger safety net, embrace Sarah Palin, you know that people are not thinking rationally and that something is really amiss.

I believe that there’s something more profound going on. White folks are scared of a Black president and the demographic shifts going on. They fear China and the competition from the East.

Professionals see “furiners” filling the best universities and new economy jobs.

Those professionals have families to feed and children to care for. So their priorities are spread out. When they see foreigners coming to our shores with singular goals of academic excellence or professional success, they worry that they may not be able to keep up. That’s something relatively new for America. Historically, foreigners who came here were not wealthy and not well-educated to begin with. They came here, struggled, paid their dues and climbed up. However, this new generation of academic and professional foreigners come already well-prepared to “conquer”.

At one time, being a White American put one at the top the pecking order and provided a sense of security. That is no more, and that’s what is engendering all sense of dread.

Hispanics are “invading” even the small towns doing jobs that locals won’t do.

Globalization is making the world smaller so Americans want to push back. They fear that Black man selling out America to the United Nations.

Economic uncertainly is causing some elements of society to turn to the extreme right. It’s happened in Europe and it’s happening in America.

It’s too bad the Republican party is turning to the extremists for short term benefit.

People fear change and the bogeymen become socialism, communism, Fidel Castro, etc…

[briansd1]

[quote=Jim Jones]

What the single payer system would do is externalize the costs of medial care from industry to another sector.[/quote]

True. But as a businessman, flu should like that because a single payer system would immediately shift the healthcare costs of his company to someone else. His company will make more money… (Not that we will ever have a single-payer system)

[quote=Jim Jones]
I like a single payer in a perfect world, but in a modern society with the costs it is not really something that adds up.
[/quote]

Why not?

[quote=Jim Jones]
Look at the addition of user fees all over Canada and the UK for their national health services. $20 here $10 there adds up and is a form of rationing. This legislation goes in the opposite direction making all preventative care etc. free of these fees starting in 2018. [/quote]

I thought that we had co-pays?

I personally like the high deductible or catastrophic policies combined with health savings accounts.

[quote=Jim Jones]
In order to control costs a free good required some rationing.
[/quote]

Very true.

[quote=Jim Jones]
When productive members of society are rationed they tend to get upset, I think that is part of the dissatisfaction with the legislation.[/quote]

I don’t think that the dissatisfaction with this Bill is rational. It’s fed by misinformation and fear.

When unemployed Tea Partiers, who should be supporting a stronger safety net, embrace Sarah Palin, you know that people are not thinking rationally and that something is really amiss.

I believe that there’s something more profound going on. White folks are scared of a Black president and the demographic shifts going on. They fear China and the competition from the East.

Professionals see “furiners” filling the best universities and new economy jobs.

Those professionals have families to feed and children to care for. So their priorities are spread out. When they see foreigners coming to our shores with singular goals of academic excellence or professional success, they worry that they may not be able to keep up. That’s something relatively new for America. Historically, foreigners who came here were not wealthy and not well-educated to begin with. They came here, struggled, paid their dues and climbed up. However, this new generation of academic and professional foreigners come already well-prepared to “conquer”.

At one time, being a White American put one at the top the pecking order and provided a sense of security. That is no more, and that’s what is engendering all sense of dread.

Hispanics are “invading” even the small towns doing jobs that locals won’t do.

Globalization is making the world smaller so Americans want to push back. They fear that Black man selling out America to the United Nations.

Economic uncertainly is causing some elements of society to turn to the extreme right. It’s happened in Europe and it’s happening in America.

It’s too bad the Republican party is turning to the extremists for short term benefit.

People fear change and the bogeymen become socialism, communism, Fidel Castro, etc…

[briansd1]

[quote=Jim Jones]

What the single payer system would do is externalize the costs of medial care from industry to another sector.[/quote]

True. But as a businessman, flu should like that because a single payer system would immediately shift the healthcare costs of his company to someone else. His company will make more money… (Not that we will ever have a single-payer system)

[quote=Jim Jones]
I like a single payer in a perfect world, but in a modern society with the costs it is not really something that adds up.
[/quote]

Why not?

[quote=Jim Jones]
Look at the addition of user fees all over Canada and the UK for their national health services. $20 here $10 there adds up and is a form of rationing. This legislation goes in the opposite direction making all preventative care etc. free of these fees starting in 2018. [/quote]

I thought that we had co-pays?

I personally like the high deductible or catastrophic policies combined with health savings accounts.

[quote=Jim Jones]
In order to control costs a free good required some rationing.
[/quote]

Very true.

[quote=Jim Jones]
When productive members of society are rationed they tend to get upset, I think that is part of the dissatisfaction with the legislation.[/quote]

I don’t think that the dissatisfaction with this Bill is rational. It’s fed by misinformation and fear.

When unemployed Tea Partiers, who should be supporting a stronger safety net, embrace Sarah Palin, you know that people are not thinking rationally and that something is really amiss.

I believe that there’s something more profound going on. White folks are scared of a Black president and the demographic shifts going on. They fear China and the competition from the East.

Professionals see “furiners” filling the best universities and new economy jobs.

Those professionals have families to feed and children to care for. So their priorities are spread out. When they see foreigners coming to our shores with singular goals of academic excellence or professional success, they worry that they may not be able to keep up. That’s something relatively new for America. Historically, foreigners who came here were not wealthy and not well-educated to begin with. They came here, struggled, paid their dues and climbed up. However, this new generation of academic and professional foreigners come already well-prepared to “conquer”.

At one time, being a White American put one at the top the pecking order and provided a sense of security. That is no more, and that’s what is engendering all sense of dread.

Hispanics are “invading” even the small towns doing jobs that locals won’t do.

Globalization is making the world smaller so Americans want to push back. They fear that Black man selling out America to the United Nations.

Economic uncertainly is causing some elements of society to turn to the extreme right. It’s happened in Europe and it’s happening in America.

It’s too bad the Republican party is turning to the extremists for short term benefit.

People fear change and the bogeymen become socialism, communism, Fidel Castro, etc…

[briansd1]

[quote=Jim Jones]

What the single payer system would do is externalize the costs of medial care from industry to another sector.[/quote]

True. But as a businessman, flu should like that because a single payer system would immediately shift the healthcare costs of his company to someone else. His company will make more money… (Not that we will ever have a single-payer system)

[quote=Jim Jones]
I like a single payer in a perfect world, but in a modern society with the costs it is not really something that adds up.
[/quote]

Why not?

[quote=Jim Jones]
Look at the addition of user fees all over Canada and the UK for their national health services. $20 here $10 there adds up and is a form of rationing. This legislation goes in the opposite direction making all preventative care etc. free of these fees starting in 2018. [/quote]

I thought that we had co-pays?

I personally like the high deductible or catastrophic policies combined with health savings accounts.

[quote=Jim Jones]
In order to control costs a free good required some rationing.
[/quote]

Very true.

[quote=Jim Jones]
When productive members of society are rationed they tend to get upset, I think that is part of the dissatisfaction with the legislation.[/quote]

I don’t think that the dissatisfaction with this Bill is rational. It’s fed by misinformation and fear.

When unemployed Tea Partiers, who should be supporting a stronger safety net, embrace Sarah Palin, you know that people are not thinking rationally and that something is really amiss.

I believe that there’s something more profound going on. White folks are scared of a Black president and the demographic shifts going on. They fear China and the competition from the East.

Professionals see “furiners” filling the best universities and new economy jobs.

Those professionals have families to feed and children to care for. So their priorities are spread out. When they see foreigners coming to our shores with singular goals of academic excellence or professional success, they worry that they may not be able to keep up. That’s something relatively new for America. Historically, foreigners who came here were not wealthy and not well-educated to begin with. They came here, struggled, paid their dues and climbed up. However, this new generation of academic and professional foreigners come already well-prepared to “conquer”.

At one time, being a White American put one at the top the pecking order and provided a sense of security. That is no more, and that’s what is engendering all sense of dread.

Hispanics are “invading” even the small towns doing jobs that locals won’t do.

Globalization is making the world smaller so Americans want to push back. They fear that Black man selling out America to the United Nations.

Economic uncertainly is causing some elements of society to turn to the extreme right. It’s happened in Europe and it’s happening in America.

It’s too bad the Republican party is turning to the extremists for short term benefit.

People fear change and the bogeymen become socialism, communism, Fidel Castro, etc…

[briansd1]

[quote=Jim Jones]

What the single payer system would do is externalize the costs of medial care from industry to another sector.[/quote]

True. But as a businessman, flu should like that because a single payer system would immediately shift the healthcare costs of his company to someone else. His company will make more money… (Not that we will ever have a single-payer system)

[quote=Jim Jones]
I like a single payer in a perfect world, but in a modern society with the costs it is not really something that adds up.
[/quote]

Why not?

[quote=Jim Jones]
Look at the addition of user fees all over Canada and the UK for their national health services. $20 here $10 there adds up and is a form of rationing. This legislation goes in the opposite direction making all preventative care etc. free of these fees starting in 2018. [/quote]

I thought that we had co-pays?

I personally like the high deductible or catastrophic policies combined with health savings accounts.

[quote=Jim Jones]
In order to control costs a free good required some rationing.
[/quote]

Very true.

[quote=Jim Jones]
When productive members of society are rationed they tend to get upset, I think that is part of the dissatisfaction with the legislation.[/quote]

I don’t think that the dissatisfaction with this Bill is rational. It’s fed by misinformation and fear.

When unemployed Tea Partiers, who should be supporting a stronger safety net, embrace Sarah Palin, you know that people are not thinking rationally and that something is really amiss.

I believe that there’s something more profound going on. White folks are scared of a Black president and the demographic shifts going on. They fear China and the competition from the East.

Professionals see “furiners” filling the best universities and new economy jobs.

Those professionals have families to feed and children to care for. So their priorities are spread out. When they see foreigners coming to our shores with singular goals of academic excellence or professional success, they worry that they may not be able to keep up. That’s something relatively new for America. Historically, foreigners who came here were not wealthy and not well-educated to begin with. They came here, struggled, paid their dues and climbed up. However, this new generation of academic and professional foreigners come already well-prepared to “conquer”.

At one time, being a White American put one at the top the pecking order and provided a sense of security. That is no more, and that’s what is engendering all sense of dread.

Hispanics are “invading” even the small towns doing jobs that locals won’t do.

Globalization is making the world smaller so Americans want to push back. They fear that Black man selling out America to the United Nations.

Economic uncertainly is causing some elements of society to turn to the extreme right. It’s happened in Europe and it’s happening in America.

It’s too bad the Republican party is turning to the extremists for short term benefit.

People fear change and the bogeymen become socialism, communism, Fidel Castro, etc…

[briansd1]

Of course, you also have the proponents of a single-payer system. And they are dissatisfied at the giveaways to the middlemen (the insurance industry).

They (me included) want to do away with a whole layer of costs, get rid of the profits of the insurance industry, and have a single payer system.

But I’ll take something rather than nothing. I’m dissatisfied but happy enough about this health care bill.

[briansd1]

Of course, you also have the proponents of a single-payer system. And they are dissatisfied at the giveaways to the middlemen (the insurance industry).

They (me included) want to do away with a whole layer of costs, get rid of the profits of the insurance industry, and have a single payer system.

But I’ll take something rather than nothing. I’m dissatisfied but happy enough about this health care bill.

[briansd1]

Of course, you also have the proponents of a single-payer system. And they are dissatisfied at the giveaways to the middlemen (the insurance industry).

They (me included) want to do away with a whole layer of costs, get rid of the profits of the insurance industry, and have a single payer system.

But I’ll take something rather than nothing. I’m dissatisfied but happy enough about this health care bill.

[briansd1]

Of course, you also have the proponents of a single-payer system. And they are dissatisfied at the giveaways to the middlemen (the insurance industry).

They (me included) want to do away with a whole layer of costs, get rid of the profits of the insurance industry, and have a single payer system.

But I’ll take something rather than nothing. I’m dissatisfied but happy enough about this health care bill.

[briansd1]

Of course, you also have the proponents of a single-payer system. And they are dissatisfied at the giveaways to the middlemen (the insurance industry).

They (me included) want to do away with a whole layer of costs, get rid of the profits of the insurance industry, and have a single payer system.

But I’ll take something rather than nothing. I’m dissatisfied but happy enough about this health care bill.

[Hobie]

[quote=SK in CV]
Chances are about 95% that you’re paying lower taxes now than you did under the previous administration.[/quote]

We may see a $400-$800 reduction in fed tax but the elephant in the room is the new trillion dollars in new spending.

Like car salesmen they only want you to look at the monthly payment or short term window and not the big picture.

We can’t just keep printing $$ to cover this spending. It will have to be paid at some point in time.

Let’s talk about this same question after Jan 1 when the Bush tax cuts expire.

Remember, “Liberty, once lost, is lost forever”

[Hobie]

[quote=SK in CV]
Chances are about 95% that you’re paying lower taxes now than you did under the previous administration.[/quote]

We may see a $400-$800 reduction in fed tax but the elephant in the room is the new trillion dollars in new spending.

Like car salesmen they only want you to look at the monthly payment or short term window and not the big picture.

We can’t just keep printing $$ to cover this spending. It will have to be paid at some point in time.

Let’s talk about this same question after Jan 1 when the Bush tax cuts expire.

Remember, “Liberty, once lost, is lost forever”

[Hobie]

[quote=SK in CV]
Chances are about 95% that you’re paying lower taxes now than you did under the previous administration.[/quote]

We may see a $400-$800 reduction in fed tax but the elephant in the room is the new trillion dollars in new spending.

Like car salesmen they only want you to look at the monthly payment or short term window and not the big picture.

We can’t just keep printing $$ to cover this spending. It will have to be paid at some point in time.

Let’s talk about this same question after Jan 1 when the Bush tax cuts expire.

Remember, “Liberty, once lost, is lost forever”

[Hobie]

[quote=SK in CV]
Chances are about 95% that you’re paying lower taxes now than you did under the previous administration.[/quote]

We may see a $400-$800 reduction in fed tax but the elephant in the room is the new trillion dollars in new spending.

Like car salesmen they only want you to look at the monthly payment or short term window and not the big picture.

We can’t just keep printing $$ to cover this spending. It will have to be paid at some point in time.

Let’s talk about this same question after Jan 1 when the Bush tax cuts expire.

Remember, “Liberty, once lost, is lost forever”

[Author]

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