Are the Flippers Laying In Wait?

[CricketOnTheHearth]

I personally remember the Prop 13 days; heard about the situation from afar when I was growing up in Michigan. California housing prices suddenly went berserk in the early to mid 70’s, and soon retired little old ladies were being forced out of their houses *that were paid off* because the taxes were skyrocketing on them, and they couldn’t cover them with their fixed incomes. Prop 13 was a desperate reaction to this situation. CA was practically rising up in riots over the assessments and Prop 13 staved that off.

So I’m still wondering, what changed in the mid-70’s in California? Did some building code change that suddenly made it more expensive to build new houses? Did the flat land run out? (One difference is that land here is hilly to mountainous, while the aforementioned cheap areas like Texas, Michigan, etc have flat, flat land as far as the eye can see).

AN, of course it is true that if builders would build a lot of normal-sized, affordable houses, then a lot more normal-income people could afford to buy them. But the latest building boom was all hyper-priced McMansions. I wonder if next generation a lot of those monstrosities are going to get knocked down and replaced with duplexes.

I don’t care about living in La Jolla or some ritzy neighborhood, I just want to live in a decent, quiet, middle-class bedroom community like I grew up in. Solid, 3-BR houses in low crime areas. Seems like such neighborhoods are rare here– it’s either skeevy gangbanger areas or hyper-sized hyper-priced houses. And what blows my mind is that even the dwellings in the “skeevy” areas cost as much as really nice homes in the cheaper parts of the country.

We seem to be all chewing around the edges of this question and it is that for some reason, there is a shortage of supply of dwellings here. Whether it’s building regs, county fees and taxes, lack of easy flat land, or what I don’t know. But there aren’t a surplus of houses like in Texas and the Midwest and so the sellers can charge high prices for them. And this has been the case since the mid-70’s and wasn’t the case before then.

[an]

CricketOnTheHearth, builder build McMansion, I’d assume because they can’t build small houses profitably? If they could build more small houses profitably, they definitely would, since the volume for those would be much higher than McMansion.

Once again, not all of CA are mountainous, just look at the Valley. Can you explain why houses in Fresno would be as expensive as Dallas, when Dallas has A LOT more high paying jobs? Flat develop-able lands would be similar in both areas since Fresno is flat flat flat too. Fresno’s also extremely hot or cold as well.

[an]

CricketOnTheHearth, builder build McMansion, I’d assume because they can’t build small houses profitably? If they could build more small houses profitably, they definitely would, since the volume for those would be much higher than McMansion.

Once again, not all of CA are mountainous, just look at the Valley. Can you explain why houses in Fresno would be as expensive as Dallas, when Dallas has A LOT more high paying jobs? Flat develop-able lands would be similar in both areas since Fresno is flat flat flat too. Fresno’s also extremely hot or cold as well.

[an]

CricketOnTheHearth, builder build McMansion, I’d assume because they can’t build small houses profitably? If they could build more small houses profitably, they definitely would, since the volume for those would be much higher than McMansion.

Once again, not all of CA are mountainous, just look at the Valley. Can you explain why houses in Fresno would be as expensive as Dallas, when Dallas has A LOT more high paying jobs? Flat develop-able lands would be similar in both areas since Fresno is flat flat flat too. Fresno’s also extremely hot or cold as well.

[an]

CricketOnTheHearth, builder build McMansion, I’d assume because they can’t build small houses profitably? If they could build more small houses profitably, they definitely would, since the volume for those would be much higher than McMansion.

Once again, not all of CA are mountainous, just look at the Valley. Can you explain why houses in Fresno would be as expensive as Dallas, when Dallas has A LOT more high paying jobs? Flat develop-able lands would be similar in both areas since Fresno is flat flat flat too. Fresno’s also extremely hot or cold as well.

[an]

CricketOnTheHearth, builder build McMansion, I’d assume because they can’t build small houses profitably? If they could build more small houses profitably, they definitely would, since the volume for those would be much higher than McMansion.

Once again, not all of CA are mountainous, just look at the Valley. Can you explain why houses in Fresno would be as expensive as Dallas, when Dallas has A LOT more high paying jobs? Flat develop-able lands would be similar in both areas since Fresno is flat flat flat too. Fresno’s also extremely hot or cold as well.

[gn]

[quote=AN]CAR, question is, have you been to Fresno, Sanger, Barstow, Bakersfield? There are A LOT of flat usable land there too. I can bet you there’s more land in Fresno ready for development than Dallas or Houston or Austin. There are A LOT more high paying jobs in those TX states than Fresno, Bakersfield, etc. Yet, how come property price is cheaper in those TX area than even Fresno?
[/quote]

In Texas, there’s no state income tax. But the property tax is higher. Effectively, the state income tax is included in the property tax.

This has the effect of discouraging speculation. If a John Doe owns 1 primary residence & 3 rental houses, he is paying much more than his share of state income tax.

I think one of the reasons that home prices in Fresno, Sanger, Barstow, Bakersfield are higher than TX is because they are within commuting distance to high prices areas.

Believe it or not, many people work in the bay area & live in Fresno.

Another factor: since prices in LA, SF, SD are so high, the prices in the surrounding areas are also “lifted” because many retirees sell homes in LA, SF, SD & move 80 miles away to benefit from the low prices and still be close to their families.

[gn]

[quote=AN]CAR, question is, have you been to Fresno, Sanger, Barstow, Bakersfield? There are A LOT of flat usable land there too. I can bet you there’s more land in Fresno ready for development than Dallas or Houston or Austin. There are A LOT more high paying jobs in those TX states than Fresno, Bakersfield, etc. Yet, how come property price is cheaper in those TX area than even Fresno?
[/quote]

In Texas, there’s no state income tax. But the property tax is higher. Effectively, the state income tax is included in the property tax.

This has the effect of discouraging speculation. If a John Doe owns 1 primary residence & 3 rental houses, he is paying much more than his share of state income tax.

I think one of the reasons that home prices in Fresno, Sanger, Barstow, Bakersfield are higher than TX is because they are within commuting distance to high prices areas.

Believe it or not, many people work in the bay area & live in Fresno.

Another factor: since prices in LA, SF, SD are so high, the prices in the surrounding areas are also “lifted” because many retirees sell homes in LA, SF, SD & move 80 miles away to benefit from the low prices and still be close to their families.

[gn]

[quote=AN]CAR, question is, have you been to Fresno, Sanger, Barstow, Bakersfield? There are A LOT of flat usable land there too. I can bet you there’s more land in Fresno ready for development than Dallas or Houston or Austin. There are A LOT more high paying jobs in those TX states than Fresno, Bakersfield, etc. Yet, how come property price is cheaper in those TX area than even Fresno?
[/quote]

In Texas, there’s no state income tax. But the property tax is higher. Effectively, the state income tax is included in the property tax.

This has the effect of discouraging speculation. If a John Doe owns 1 primary residence & 3 rental houses, he is paying much more than his share of state income tax.

I think one of the reasons that home prices in Fresno, Sanger, Barstow, Bakersfield are higher than TX is because they are within commuting distance to high prices areas.

Believe it or not, many people work in the bay area & live in Fresno.

Another factor: since prices in LA, SF, SD are so high, the prices in the surrounding areas are also “lifted” because many retirees sell homes in LA, SF, SD & move 80 miles away to benefit from the low prices and still be close to their families.

[gn]

[quote=AN]CAR, question is, have you been to Fresno, Sanger, Barstow, Bakersfield? There are A LOT of flat usable land there too. I can bet you there’s more land in Fresno ready for development than Dallas or Houston or Austin. There are A LOT more high paying jobs in those TX states than Fresno, Bakersfield, etc. Yet, how come property price is cheaper in those TX area than even Fresno?
[/quote]

In Texas, there’s no state income tax. But the property tax is higher. Effectively, the state income tax is included in the property tax.

This has the effect of discouraging speculation. If a John Doe owns 1 primary residence & 3 rental houses, he is paying much more than his share of state income tax.

I think one of the reasons that home prices in Fresno, Sanger, Barstow, Bakersfield are higher than TX is because they are within commuting distance to high prices areas.

Believe it or not, many people work in the bay area & live in Fresno.

Another factor: since prices in LA, SF, SD are so high, the prices in the surrounding areas are also “lifted” because many retirees sell homes in LA, SF, SD & move 80 miles away to benefit from the low prices and still be close to their families.

[gn]

[quote=AN]CAR, question is, have you been to Fresno, Sanger, Barstow, Bakersfield? There are A LOT of flat usable land there too. I can bet you there’s more land in Fresno ready for development than Dallas or Houston or Austin. There are A LOT more high paying jobs in those TX states than Fresno, Bakersfield, etc. Yet, how come property price is cheaper in those TX area than even Fresno?
[/quote]

In Texas, there’s no state income tax. But the property tax is higher. Effectively, the state income tax is included in the property tax.

This has the effect of discouraging speculation. If a John Doe owns 1 primary residence & 3 rental houses, he is paying much more than his share of state income tax.

I think one of the reasons that home prices in Fresno, Sanger, Barstow, Bakersfield are higher than TX is because they are within commuting distance to high prices areas.

Believe it or not, many people work in the bay area & live in Fresno.

Another factor: since prices in LA, SF, SD are so high, the prices in the surrounding areas are also “lifted” because many retirees sell homes in LA, SF, SD & move 80 miles away to benefit from the low prices and still be close to their families.

[an]

gn, I know about the tax situation in TX, but how can TX’s big city have cheaper home prices than small cities in CA, like Fresno. Fresno is still a good 2-2.5 hrs away from San Jose. Would be a killer commute. It’s almost like working in SD and live in Palmsprings. The amount of people who can put up w/ 2-2.5hr one way commute is extremely small. So I don’t buy that reasoning as to what’s keeping Fresno’s prices up.

[an]

gn, I know about the tax situation in TX, but how can TX’s big city have cheaper home prices than small cities in CA, like Fresno. Fresno is still a good 2-2.5 hrs away from San Jose. Would be a killer commute. It’s almost like working in SD and live in Palmsprings. The amount of people who can put up w/ 2-2.5hr one way commute is extremely small. So I don’t buy that reasoning as to what’s keeping Fresno’s prices up.

[an]

gn, I know about the tax situation in TX, but how can TX’s big city have cheaper home prices than small cities in CA, like Fresno. Fresno is still a good 2-2.5 hrs away from San Jose. Would be a killer commute. It’s almost like working in SD and live in Palmsprings. The amount of people who can put up w/ 2-2.5hr one way commute is extremely small. So I don’t buy that reasoning as to what’s keeping Fresno’s prices up.

[an]

gn, I know about the tax situation in TX, but how can TX’s big city have cheaper home prices than small cities in CA, like Fresno. Fresno is still a good 2-2.5 hrs away from San Jose. Would be a killer commute. It’s almost like working in SD and live in Palmsprings. The amount of people who can put up w/ 2-2.5hr one way commute is extremely small. So I don’t buy that reasoning as to what’s keeping Fresno’s prices up.

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