[quote=zk][quote=zk]
I notice sexism all the time. I notice misogyny when I see it, too. I have a daughter. And when she was born, I was quite concerned with how society would treat her. I still am. I think the objectification of women is rampant. My first facebook post was about a feminist champion doing great things for the cause of women. (In fact, other than pix of vacations that my wife posted, and a few posts about my favorite baseball team, that’s my only facebook post.) So I’m actually on your side in general. I’m a feminist who is pretty sensitive to how women are treated. [/quote]
You followed my posting of the above with your posting of the below:
[quote=CA renter]ZK, we can go around and around on this because it’s unlikely we will ever see eye to eye if you believe that misogyny and sexism are things of the past. They are not.
Of course, it’s like a white person telling a black person that racism doesn’t exist. We’ll just have to agree to disagree on this.[/quote]
Your reading skills leave quite a bit to be desired.
You ignore the points I make that counter your weak arguments. And then, when it’s obvious that your arguments can’t stand up to mine, you imply that I hold a position that I clearly (to anyone who’s paying attention to what I’m actually saying) don’t, and run away. Weak.
Have you ever known a black person who sees racism in every corner? Even when it’s not there? Constantly crying, “racism!!” even if whatever happened that he’s crying racism about was clearly due to other factors, and not racism? Sure there’s racism out there. Lots of it. Just not everywhere that person sees it. If you try to tell that person that a particular incident wasn’t racism, they get angry and think you’re a fool for not seeing it. It’s pretty obvious to everyone that that person has a very large chip on his shoulder, and that he sees racism everywhere he turns his eyes, rather than only where it actually is. It’s pretty obvious to everyone that he’s angry, bitter, and irrational. Obvious to everyone except that person, of course.
That’s you with misogyny.[/quote]
ZK, you only notice sexism and misogyny when you determine it exists, as per your definition. The objectification of women is one component of sexism, and you don’t even notice how some of your own beliefs and behaviors contribute to the objectification and denigration of women.
The fact that you have a daughter does not mean that you can spot sexism or misogyny in the same way that a woman can because you have never had to live as a woman. You have never been told that your (less experienced, less educated, less valuable) male peers were paid more than you because they were men or because they have families to support. You have probably never been catcalled and groped by strangers on the street, even when you were a kid. You have no idea what that feels like.
You have never been told that you can’t play football (but told that you could be a cheerleader and cheer the boys on!) because you were born with internal reproductive organs.
You are not an expert regarding sexism and misogyny, and you certainly don’t know more than I do about it because of the simple fact that you are not a woman. Again, the fact that you can’t grasp how the most insulting terms in our show how sexism and misogyny are alive and well in our society is a very clear indication that you are not nearly as aware of sexism and misogyny as you seem to think you are.
The fact that you think that being female makes one biologically inclined to like shopping shows how naive you are regarding this topic.
I appreciate the fact that you want to be a feminist, but you need to understand that you will NEVER understand sexism and misogyny in the way that a woman understands and experiences it (and many women don’t notice it as much because they are used to it; it’s all they’ve ever known). What we do need to do is get a better understanding of the history and the facts that contribute to our biases and the way we value people, professions, contributions to society, etc.
Everything I’ve said here is a fact — nothing that I’ve written here was imagined or made up — from what girls have to endure on a regular basis, to the way that parents, peers, and others guide very young girls and boys toward behaviors and activities that are gender-based, irrespective of what is natural for those children. Yes, there are biological differences that are related to our different reproductive roles, but these differences are not nearly as dramatic as you think they are.
