[quote=zk]Well, my rib is feeling better, so no more sitting around the computer. I’m going to exercise and play some golf.
My argument was that you imagined that people segregated the sexes due to fear of feminization, and I showed you doing just that. If you want to continue to debate that point, I’m in. But I’m not interested in participating in your rants about sexism and misogyny any longer. It takes too long to keep pointing out your misrepresentations of my positions and all your logic, reason, and factual errors.
My arguments to this point speak for themselves, as do yours. I obviously think mine are superior, and I obviously think your emotions have prevented you from thinking clearly, as evidenced by your frequent misrepresentations of my positions and your frequent logic failures.
I give you points for stamina, CA renter. And it’s good that there are people out there fighting against sexism and misogyny. But, as long as you’re wearing that “genders are essentially the same” blindfold, and as long as you keep letting your highly-charged emotions get in the way of your reasoning, you’ll get nowhere.[/quote]
Glad to hear your rib is feeling better, and I appreciate the less antagonistic tone in your most recent posts. As I’ve said before, we’ll have to agree to disagree. You think your logic and beliefs are superior, and I think mine are superior. But one thing is obvious: you haven’t studied issues of gender or racial discrimination. How do I know this? Some key points:
1. Sexism and racism involve not just hating a group or thinking that one is superior to another. Racism and sexism (and most “isms”) include stereotyping — which you’ve done with your “boys’ activities/attributes/traits/behaviors vs. girls’ activities/attributes/traits/behaviors, and the insistence of a rather binary perspective on gender differences, etc. They also include exaggerations of these stereotypes which you’ve done here, as well.
For instance, there is nothing about being female that makes a woman want to shop. The stereotype exists because women have traditionally been the ones to shop while the husband worked at other things. And for many women who are stuck in the home with small children all day, the opportunity to get out in the “real world” and maybe interact with some adults is a huge treat.
2. By suggesting that these differences justify segregation of the sexes (boys guided to “boys” activities/friends, and girls to “girls” activities/friends, etc., which leads to de facto segregation), you’re promoting and encouraging the existence of male power over women.
You’re probably thinking: “How the hell did she make that leap? Must be imagining again!”
But I’m not.
As I’ve pointed out to Brian earlier in this thread, female wealth and power are still all too often the result of a woman’s relationship with a male (husband or father). And females make up only 4.4% of the CEO positions in S&P 500 companies (I believe it was higher in the past, IIRC, so we might be going backward).
There are more women in Congress, but it’s been a long, hard road getting there. Approximately 20% of our representatives and senators are female, which is a record, IIRC.
As you might already know, networking is an essential part of working one’s way up the ladder of success…in all aspects of life. If we segregate boys from girls, then girls are left no choice but to network with those who can least help them, and who are struggling themselves. Segregation effectively shuts women out from the very networks that are needed for them to get ahead in life. This creates a hierarchy which places men in positions over women, and helps to perpetuate the myths that men are “more capable” or “more intelligent”, etc., which then justifies more sexism and misogyny. Over time, this can lead to rather dramatic gaps in opportunity for women vs. men, which leads to the institutionalization of sexism (and racism, etc.).
This type of thinking also justifies guiding women to “female” jobs and men to “male” jobs. If females are taught from birth that there are “female” activities which are most appropriate for them, that is often where they’ll end up — also remember that networking thing. As noted earlier in this thread, jobs that have been traditionally done by women are almost always lower-paid and have far less prestige than “male oriented” jobs. This is not because these jobs are easier or less important, it’s because the people who have traditionally done these jobs have been under the control (including the status of being owned) of the people who determine the pay and status of jobs, in general (men, usually white men). This lower pay and prestige makes women more dependent on men, again, putting men in a position of power over women. When you justify different treatment, then you justify different outcomes.
3. You seem unfamiliar with the concepts of endemic, systemic, and institutionalized sexism (and racism, etc. but I will just refer to sexism throughout the rest of my post for brevity’s sake). It is literally everywhere for a woman…and no, we are not “imagining it.” Read a bit about the ways in which women receive these messages from a very early age:
“What is sexism?
Sexism originally referred to the belief in the existence of a hierarchy where men are advantaged and women are
disadvantaged. Today’s understanding of sexism has evolved to include:
·
The belief that one sex is superior to the other
· The belief that everyone belongs to the male sex or the female sex
·
Using the identities of man or woman to define ability
·
Attitudes of hatred of women or men because of their gender
· Attitudes that demand or force masculinity on men and femininity on women
Sexism derives its basis during a time in which there existed a binary of sex and power, divided into the catego-
ries of men and women, respectively. Sex is an important aspect to sexism since it is in the term and makes
up the base definition of sexism, which is relating to the categories of male and female (
for more information
refer to the GenEq Info Sheet: Sex/Gender
). Today it has grown to include anyone who falls outside the
boxes of gender and sexuality.”
I’ve bolded those parts because you’ve been guilty of holding these beliefs and making these types of comments throughout this thread. See, we women aren’t “imagining” sexism and misogyny, you just don’t seem to understand what those terms encompass. When you understand what sexism is (and how misogyny is justified by sexist beliefs), then you can see how sexist comments have been made throughout this thread. Nobody here is “imagining it”; but some are indeed blind to it.
But I want to conclude on a friendly note. I appreciate the conversation and debate. It would be even better if you were to refrain from trying to invalidate someone else’s opinions and beliefs by using personal attacks instead of just sticking to the topic. If you re-read this thread, I think you’ll understand what I’m talking about.
Hope your rib continues to heal well. Best regards to you and your family, ZK.
