[quote=zk]
[quote=CA renter]
Look at scaredy’s posts about his sons. That is what we see on a daily basis — the notion that females are “screwed up” and neurotic, and that boys need to be protected from that.
[/quote]
Put down your misogyny-tinted glasses and then read scaredy’s posts again. What scaredy said was that he was neurotic, and that he didn’t want to create another generation of neurotic men. What he said in reference to females was:
“Is this intrinsic to men or is the above description the result of the last generation of mothers screwing with their sons heads. “
And when he said “this,” he was referring to your description of what made a man a good friend to other men. And part of his point was that women can’t understand what makes a man a good friend to another man, and that they should stay out of the discussion. And that those moms (and maybe our culture) shouldn’t be trying to feminize men. Not because there’s anything wrong with women. But because there’s nothing wrong with men being men.[/quote]
[quote=zk]I mentioned your M.T.G., but my point was not dependent on them. I pointed out that you misread scaredy’s post (and that therefore your point was not valid).[/quote]
I wasn’t only referring to that one post; I was referring to the string of posts that expressed a desire to “defeminize” boys.
Here is just one of many:
[quote=scaredyclassic]Look, as a former, and some might say present, little male bitch, I am qualified to speak on this. Women are disqualified. Women weighing in here is like having the HR dept. actually legislate,reality in a workplace which they do not and cannot.
Mens’ play fighting and challenging is how we measure one another and how friendships form.
Feminizing language and male behavior is what we and my parents tried to do but it does not go well. Boys,will be boys,and that is what makes men.
I’m not saying there aren’t other ways to be men or manly just that this chatter is,well within mormal.
More than anything, fathers should want to raise sons,perceived as normal males by other male peers.
Women have no say in this matter, Just as men shouldn’t be allowed to dictate to to women how they work out their relative status and pecking order.[/quote]
Again, if women cannot speak about male behavior or how they perceive themselves in society, then men cannot speak about female behavior, or dictate to them what what they should perceive as sexist or misogynistic behavior. If one group of people is treated differently from another group, especially if they have historically been oppressed by the other group, then it is up to them to determine what is or isn’t unjust treatment. Of course the group in power will want to dictate things to them, as they’ve always done. Of course, they would like to exaggerate the differences between the groups in an attempt to justify the imbalance of power between the groups. It doesn’t mean that they are right, and they certainly are in no position to tell the oppressed group that they are incapable of discerning prejudicial behavior just because they’ve been subjected to it.
And you’ve said that you’ve never heard or seen a parent talk about not wanting their boys to be “feminized” and you clearly missed this perfect example right here. Scaredy’s posts are think with it, all throughout this thread, but you’ve missed it completely.
Even your assertion that “we don’t want boys to be like girls” is a perfect example of it! And you use this as a justification to guide boys into segregated activities. This is exactly what I’m talking about.
Yes, it happens all day long, every day. We women hear it, see it, and feel it…even if some women are not consciously aware of it at all times. Men do, too. It informs our perspectives on gender and the relation of power between the genders. It is systemic, which is why you don’t notice it. You excuse it as “normal” or “natural” behavior, as I’ve been saying all along. You also didn’t even notice that the most insulting language directed at males and females is almost entirely misogynistic. The worst insults for males refer to the feminization or emasculinization of boys/men. The worst insults for females refer, in vulgar terms, to her anatomy, or to her sexual behavior (that doesn’t have the same negative connotations for men). You do not notice these things because you are not aware of them or alert to them in a way that women are (and many women are also largely unaware because of the systemic nature of sexism in our society…they think it’s “normal,” too). Again, I am not imagining things. You are the one who doesn’t see things even when they are hitting you in the face. You are completely blind to it.
[quote=zk]
[quote=CA renter]
And women absolutely do pass on the misogyny. You have no idea how many times I’ve heard women say:
“I have such a GREAT relationship with my son. There is nothing like the relationship between a mother and her son. Boys are just so special.”
[/quote]
Thinking boys are special is not misogyny.
[/quote]
[quote=zk]I pointed out your erroneous assertion that thinking boys are special equates to misogyny. Nothing to do with your M.T.G. (Except maybe evidence that you’re wearing them).[/quote]
And you were wrong. Let’s turn this around. Let’s say a mother has a black child and a white child, would you say: “Thinking white children are special is not racist.” Really?
If boys are special, what are girls?
Yes, that is a perfect example of sexism, and it shows how some parents treat different-gendered children in a way that would affect these children and their perceptions of themselves, and their gender, for life.
