[quote=no_such_reality][quote=CA renter]
Remember, without human labor, there would be no capital (even land requires labor to make it productive/valuable). LABOR, not capital, created almost all the wealth that exists today, and labor should share in the ownership of that capital.[/quote]
CAR, you make much a similar statement whenever a thread like this comes up. That’s not really what CE was talking about. Nor I, nor other on the other side of the capital argument.
Most importantly, Labor has shared. The primarily problem is old school Labor is continuing to be a smaller and smaller component.
Today, four people and a combine harvester do the work of over 100 people.
The question is really simple, what are the other 96 going to do?
More importantly, how do lift everyone’s quality of life while addressing it?
Policy changes to increase the cost of capital compared to labor in effect makes less, not more. It’s kind of similar to artisanal foods. If you go into a supermarket, whole chicken is regularly $0.79/lb. A whole 5lb chicken is $4 and change. Go to Whole Foods and a organic chicken is $2.99/lb.
Walk down the meat counter, eventually you get to area with a small chicken label ‘pastured’. Birds raised on pasture supplemented with food. $5.99/lb.
Or grab a local CSA, get a real ‘free range’ chicken, it’ll be about a 4 lb bird and be $28-$35 depending on the CSA. A heritage turkey for a special occasion is a $140.
Why are they so expensive? The farmers need to make a living and they can’t raise many. Unfortunately, I can’t afford to buy many.
Everybody making artisanal products may not work as a solution, they simply make less. Buying American is good, things like dinnerware is easy, automobiles much more complex. Or the new Mac, assembled in the USA, not sure where all the parts are made.
Do we need complex labels on everything to declare what percentage of the COGS for the parts are made here and what percentage of the assembly is done here?
Finally, I don’t expect to a rewarded for the work my father did. Labor needs to quit talking about what they did in the past and talk about what they will do in the future.[/quote]
What the “capital” side is missing is that they are cannibalizing their customer base when they decimate labor. And this is being done intentionally. They’ve already gone down the path of replacing wages with debt. That is at, or near, the endpoint. To whom will capital sell their goods and services when the masses cannot afford to provide for their own basic necessities?
I would also add that labor has NOT received their fair share of the profits from their own productivity. Those who control cash flows control where money goes. There is no “free market,” it is 100% controlled by capital.
And since capital seems intent on restricting the control of wealth to their progeny and close allies, then labor should be able to pass on the wealth that they’ve created, too (though capital controls it because they have created and controlled the entire financial system).
I’m an unapologetic socialist when it comes to the control of capital and natural resources. These things belong to the people, not to a chosen few who do everything in their power to restrict others from sharing in this wealth. If we are able to do more with less, and if we suffer from too much productive capacity (and we do), then we need to shorten the number of hours worked, and increase the relative (to capital) purchasing power of labor. We need to re-assess the control of capital and natural resources; and if necessary, nationalize certain industries.
As to the argument that we are using technology because labor “costs too much,” I have to disagree. There have been many times throughout history where labor was paid a fair portion of the profits that were produced by their labor, and they were able to afford a decent living for themselves, all while capital was still able to make a decent enough profit.
The rich, for the most part, are neither “productive” nor “job creators.” They’ve monopolized certain resources and industries, so we are all forced to work for them and/or buy from them. There is no reason for us to idolize or serve them in any way.
Of course, I’d love to hear your arguments about what we should do with the other 96 people. I have yet to hear anything constructive from the capital side.
