I think you can now add into the mix that builders are able to carry abck their losses that they are taking right now against the gains they had during the boom time and thsy are profitting from the tax loop holes. Addionally the 60% write downs they are taking on the land is back room accounting. What they are doing is selling the land back to the bank at a huge loss but with a contract to repurchase at a future date at or around the price they sold.