[quote=harvey][quote=CA renter]The reason Prop 13 passed (because, unlike you, I was actually living here at the time, and remember all the ads and the discussions regarding this proposition) […][/quote]
LOL, how old were you in 1978?
The hilarious part of your rants on property taxes is that I agree with you: Property tax laws in CA unfairly favor inheritance. After all – as you constantly like to remind the Piggs – not all of us were born here. But that shouldn’t make us second class citizens, right?
You also seem to be missing the point that nobody on this thread has claimed they are entitled to to any favorable tax treatment, nor has anybody even defended the existing tax policies. That’s a concept that you injected into the conversation through a combination of projection and reading comprehension failure. Nobody is even arguing with you about tax policy, and yet you continue to rant.
The property tax issue has nothing to do with the pension crisis – other than the fact that you see raising someone else’s taxes as as a band aid solution. And you have not presented any data (i.e. numbers) that supports the idea that your “robbing Peter to pay Paul” proposal would even come close to providing adequate funds.
As an aside, I do suggest you come up with a consistent position on your claims about the importance of “research.” On another other thread you are claiming expertise about Turkey and the complexities of thousands of years of Middle Eastern culture – just because you did some googling. Have you ever been to Turkey?
But on this thread you claim there’s no way someone could understand one well-documented law in California unless they actually lived here when it was passed.
It’s cute, in a pathetic way, how you regularly flip-flop the standards in order to declare yourself smarter than everyone else.[/quote]
1.) Old enough to remember the advertisements and the lively discussions about Prop 13.
2.) You stated: “…nobody on this thread has claimed they are entitled to to any favorable tax treatment, nor has anybody even defended the existing tax policies…”
Really?
[quote=phaster]
PROP 13 ??? = NOISE
[/quote]
[quote=harvey]
Real estate is taxed – money flows from the landowner to the state. There are no subsidies, regardless of how often you misuse the term.
[/quote]
And, even though I’ve pointed this out to you before, your reading comprehension issues apparently cause you to forget information that you’ve read, so I’ll repeat it, yet again.
“What is a ‘Subsidy’
A subsidy is a benefit given by the government to groups or individuals, usually in the form of a cash payment or a tax reduction. The subsidy is typically given to remove some type of burden, and it is often considered to be in the overall interest of the public.”
[quote=FlyerInHi]It doesn’t matter than pensionsers earned anything. If the municipalities can’t live up to their contacts, the courts are where the disputes should be resolved.
No need to change state laws to benefit pensioners.
Let the municipalities deal with their liabilities within the tax framework that existed when they signed the contracts.[/quote]
And I just picked these out from the page before this one. I don’t feel like dredging through all of the other pages, and all of the other threads, where people try to defend their property tax subsidies.
Oh, and there was this one from phaster’s rant about his “talents.”
[quote=phaster]
there’s nothing illegal or unethical about inheriting property and prop 13 IMHO is a spurious and tangential topic, but what the hell i’ll play along
i’ll be the first to admit i’m lucky to have a legacy which allows me some financial breathing room, and because of that i’m a pretty chill landlord who has never raised a tenant’s rent once they are in (kind of keeping with my parents management tradition), and appreciate prop 13 making costs predictable with respect to property taxes
as for how the market values RE (like an apt rental) I have no control over that, since it’s a global marketplace that is influenced by among other things the feds dual mandate to keep unemployment low and keep inflation in check @ around 2% (as explained in a planet-money podcast)
as I see things, prop 13 is an economic moderator to keep TPTB in check and seems to have come about because TPTB were unable to moderate things in the first place
BTW seems your rants/proposals about “reforming” prop 13 are kinda like the rest of your economic analysis,… WORTHLESS DELUSIONS!!!!!!!!!!!! (took me all of two minutes of googling to find a study, with simple statement in the summary section that disproves a belief I’ll bet you’ve held for decades)
[/quote]
Again, there’s your reading comprehension problem (and I taught reading comprehension, so know what I’m talking about with respect to that, too).
3.) Your claim that Prop 13 isn’t related to the pension problems also highlights your ignorance.
The #1 revenue source for most municipalities is property tax. If property taxes are not paid at the market rate, it absolutely affects their financial health and their ability to fund the pensions.
It’s pretty apparent that you are totally unfamiliar with how government entities operate.
Even phasters “talents” post includes a link to a study where they discuss a “split-roll” property tax scheme acknowledges that it would bring in an additional $6 billion per year, and that study only includes industrial and commercial buildings — the study does not include residential properties — no rental homes or apartment buildings, second homes, inherited properties, etc., nor does it include vast tracts of land that are taxed well below market rate. Again, if you did even a bit of “Googling,” as phaster did, you would know that.
4.) As for Turkey…no, I’ve not been there. But I have talked with a number of people who are familiar with the situation there, and I read a lot of books, magazines, research articles, opinion pieces, etc. about politics and economics, and have done so for many years (almost all of my books focus on political and economic issues). My mother had a degree in anthropology from UCLA, and we traveled extensively and lived in other countries when I was younger (my mother did visit Turkey, and also traveled throughout the Middle East, the USSR, Europe, Latin America, Africa, Asia etc.). Nearly all of our family friends were immigrants from around the world, and I worked with, and for, immigrants in every job I’ve ever had (and worked for Syrians and Israelis for a number of years, with whom I talked at great length about these topics). My birth family was very politically active, and I have continued the tradition of being very politically active and engaged, and make a point of reading as much as I can, in addition to talking with as many people as possible, from all walks of life, and who hold a variety of political and economic opinions and political positions.
What differentiates me from you is that I do read and study the issues about which I’m willing to debate (I rarely debate topics about which I’m unfamiliar…I listen/read, and ask for clarification, instead). Your reference to “Googling” is strictly from you, and has nothing at all to do with me. That being said, although I wouldn’t expect you to do the kind of reading and research that I do, you could **at least** do a little bit of Googling so that you could gain even a tiny bit of knowledge about a topic before you attempt to debate, rather than pull a load of horse manure and ad hominem attacks out of your behind and throw it at the wall, hoping that nobody will call you on it (for the record…I will always call you on it).
What is research?
” noun re·search ri-ˈsərch, ˈrē-ˌ
Popularity: Top 1% of lookups
Simple Definition of research
: careful study that is done to find and report new knowledge about something
: the activity of getting information about a subject
Source: Merriam-Webster’s Learner’s Dictionary
Examples: research in a sentence
Full Definition of research
1
: careful or diligent search
2
: studious inquiry or examination; especially : investigation or experimentation aimed at the discovery and interpretation of facts, revision of accepted theories or laws in the light of new facts, or practical application of such new or revised theories or laws
3
: the collecting of information about a particular subject”
